Does anyone deny Evolution is a fact anymore?

[QUOTE="WtFDragon"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

I would probably argue that they can't be happy bed-fellows. If religious people want to take the bible as literal fact then Adam being made from dust doesn't lend itself well to the theory.

Robinho1873

Why not? Oh, sure, it's a rather poetic representation, but we do believe that life emerged out of "the dirt", or at least some kind of primordial soup full of proteins and nutrients that would have had to have been derived from the Earth by some means, right?

Yes but the idea of Adam being created out of dirt does not make scientific sense whatever way you look at it, poetic or not. For one reason God is involved and no matter how much religion tries to twist it, God is not scientific fact. A ''creator''in itself cannot be accepted by the evolution theory.

You're trying to force a dichotomy where one need not exist. ;)

You are right that evolutionary theory can't accept a creator, just as it cannot accept a lack thereof. Either assumption is not a scientific issue, but a metaphysical one, and evolution can't speak to metaphysical issues, being only a scientific theorem.

Evolution is a process, nothing more. Whether that process occurred randomly, or whether it was used as a tool by a higher power, is not a question which evolution can address, nor is it a question with which science can or should concern itself. It is a question for the philosophers and the theologians.

Having said as much, there's nothing to stop a Christian from accepting the scientific facts of evolution and the philosophy that God is the creator, in much the same way that one can both accept the fact that a painting is composed of different-coloured brush strokes and still believe an artist was responsible for the piece in its entirety. There is nothing in the science that prevents regarding it through a philosophical lens that assumes a creator.

Christianity -- Catholicism, at least -- kind of takes this a half-step further by positing that science is a form of what is called natural revelation; it tells us about that which God created (and maybe gives us glimpes of how He might have done so).

i would say 89% of the world does and the 11% who don't are the orthodox religious peopledan-rofl-copter

I'm orthodox religious. ;)

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"] Because Evolution is scientific. And no matter how people try god cannot be spoken about as science.Robinho1873

I don't see why not.

Because God is supposed to be omnipotent. If God was to interfere in the Earth and leave SCIENTIFIC evidence that means that God has had to bend to the rules of Physics, because he has left an imprint in the Physical world. If he is indeed omnipotent then that means he would not have to interfere in a physical way but merely do something supernatural. The supernatural is not science.

You're making an assumption that God -- who is not empirically detectable -- interacts with the world in a way that would be empirically detectable. This conjecture is not wholly sound.

You are right that the supernatural is not science, but that doesn't mean it is not extant.

[QUOTE="dan-rofl-copter"]i would say 89% of the world does and the 11% who don't are the orthodox religious peopleWtFDragon

I'm orthodox religious. ;)

Yeah, I suspect he got it the wrong way round.

I do not deny evolution... just species decending from a single organism. I believe species can adapt to their environment over generations but I do not believe one species can become an entirely different species (like fish to dog).mindstorm

you are thinking in to big of a jump, they don't evolve rapidly in 1 step from one species to a difrent one, but it takes 100 or 1000 of steps, maybe even more over a long period of time, it always requires such a small step that the new species can still breed with the one before it.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]I'm more open to it then I was before since I realized that Evolution and God can go hand in hand...mindstorm

They both can't in way, but if you are looking at in a point of view that God used it as one of his tools to make what we are and enviroments around us, then I said yes you can. Most of the time people don't do that in there though.

I think you may have had a typo there. Its more that I believe God created the earth in seven days, but I don't really know how old the earth is nor do I care anymore.

Yeah, I don't see why they're mutually exclusive. Thestic evolution is far more feasible than creationism.

Also, for the record, 4.54 billion years.

They are both mutually exclusive because one is a theory on how living organisms have evolved around their enviroments. The other is an individual who has the power to create the universe. So I think that is why they can't be taken into the same account.

Why can't evolution be God's doing? I really don't see the problem.

I can give you a number of reasons why... Two simple ones being that theistic evolution would require there to be death and suffering before the fall of man, and the second being that theistic evolution would require the days of creation to be in a different order... One would have to change a lot about what is said in Genesis to believe in theistic evolution...

I personally believe evolution to be true when speaking of species adapting to their environment. I do not believe all life arose from a single organism however.

Same here.

Evolution is a theory, not a fact.

I know a lot of religious nuts try to use this to deminish the validity of evolution. Still evolution is still the most logical explination for diversity of life, and is yet to be proven wrong. So I believe in evolution until somebody shows me something bette.r

jrhawk42

[QUOTE="jrhawk42"]

Evolution is a theory, not a fact.

I know a lot of religious nuts try to use this to deminish the validity of evolution. Still evolution is still the most logical explination for diversity of life, and is yet to be proven wrong. So I believe in evolution until somebody shows me something bette.r

yoshi-lnex

We're getting into a "popular meaning"/"professional meaning" debate here...

Evolution is not a fact. Nothing in the fields of science are, because new evidence is constantly discovered and theories are constantly drawn by scientists all over the globe.

Evolution has so much evidence in favor of it, however, that it is almost undeniable to anybody who studies it. Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance.

Same here.

battlefront23

*sigh* could you stop being so... wrong? :x

how about this for a change " i don't give a **** thats gotten me out of topics like this time befor, and i stand by it, some people really don't careblacktimberline

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

its a fact imo, most of the modern world believes it, the only ones who dont are the fanatic extremists religious zealots

also i will just add this

:P

Evolution is not a fact. Nothing in the fields of science are, because new evidence is constantly discovered and theories are constantly drawn by scientists all over the globe.

Evolution has so much evidence in favor of it, however, that it is almost undeniable to anybody who studies it. Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance.

-Jiggles-

gravity?

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Evolution is not a fact. Nothing in the fields of science are, because new evidence is constantly discovered and theories are constantly drawn by scientists all over the globe.

Evolution has so much evidence in favor of it, however, that it is almost undeniable to anybody who studies it. Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance.

legend26

gravity?

Yes, even gravity.

Like evolution, however, gravity has so much evidence supporting it that it's almost undeniable by a logical mindset. Again, only the most idiotic of people would blindly deny it.

[QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Evolution is not a fact. Nothing in the fields of science are, because new evidence is constantly discovered and theories are constantly drawn by scientists all over the globe.

Evolution has so much evidence in favor of it, however, that it is almost undeniable to anybody who studies it. Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance.

-Jiggles-

gravity?

Yes, even gravity.

Like evolution, however, gravity has so much evidence supporting it that it's almost undeniable by a logical mindset. Again, only the most idiotic of people would blindly deny it.

who in the hell is dumb enough to deny gravity?

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Evolution is not a fact. Nothing in the fields of science are, because new evidence is constantly discovered and theories are constantly drawn by scientists all over the globe.

Evolution has so much evidence in favor of it, however, that it is almost undeniable to anybody who studies it. Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance.

legend26

gravity?

Yes, even gravity.

Like evolution, however, gravity has so much evidence supporting it that it's almost undeniable by a logical mindset. Again, only the most idiotic of people would blindly deny it.

who in the hell is dumb enough to deny gravity?

...Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance...

Ben Stein and Bill O'Reilly don't believe in Evolution, and as much as I respect the two... I can't take them seriously, to be honest.TenP

Because both of them are complete nutjobs and have no clue about evolution but still love to bash it.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Evolution is not a fact. Nothing in the fields of science are, because new evidence is constantly discovered and theories are constantly drawn by scientists all over the globe.

Evolution has so much evidence in favor of it, however, that it is almost undeniable to anybody who studies it. Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance.

legend26

gravity?

Yes, even gravity.

Like evolution, however, gravity has so much evidence supporting it that it's almost undeniable by a logical mindset. Again, only the most idiotic of people would blindly deny it.

who in the hell is dumb enough to deny gravity?

Well it's obvious something is holding us down, but the theory behind why is, obviously, still a theory.

Yes, even gravity.

Like evolution, however, gravity has so much evidence supporting it that it's almost undeniable by a logical mindset. Again, only the most idiotic of people would blindly deny it.

-Jiggles-

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Evolution is not a fact. Nothing in the fields of science are, because new evidence is constantly discovered and theories are constantly drawn by scientists all over the globe.

Evolution has so much evidence in favor of it, however, that it is almost undeniable to anybody who studies it. Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance.

legend26

gravity?

Yes, even gravity.

Like evolution, however, gravity has so much evidence supporting it that it's almost undeniable by a logical mindset. Again, only the most idiotic of people would blindly deny it.

who in the hell is dumb enough to deny gravity?

well there still are people that belive that god is holding them down by his willpower...

just as some people still belive the earth is flat

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]Yes, even gravity.

Like evolution, however, gravity has so much evidence supporting it that it's almost undeniable by a logical mindset. Again, only the most idiotic of people would blindly deny it.

foxhound_fox

Very true, but I don't like calling anything in science factual since, as you said, new evidence comes to light that either supports or opposes the stated theory or hypothesis.

I guess my opinion doesn't matter in this case, though.

who in the hell is dumb enough to deny gravity?

legend26

There is no gravity. The Earth sucks.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I do not deny evolution... just species decending from a single organism. I believe species can adapt to their environment over generations but I do not believe one species can become an entirely different species (like fish to dog).Enosh88

you are thinking in to big of a jump, they don't evolve rapidly in 1 step from one species to a difrent one, but it takes 100 or 1000 of steps, maybe even more over a long period of time, it always requires such a small step that the new species can still breed with the one before it.

I'm well aware of how it is said to work... I just do not agree with it.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

I can give you a number of reasons why... Two simple ones being that theistic evolution would require there to be death and suffering before the fall of man, and the second being that theistic evolution would require the days of creation to be in a different order... One would have to change a lot about what is said in Genesis to believe in theistic evolution...

I personally believe evolution to be true when speaking of species adapting to their environment. I do not believe all life arose from a single organism however.

Funky_Llama

Both of those problems are only genuine problems when assuming Biblical literalism.

Also, you do realise that the evidence saying that species adapt to their environment also says that they all arose from one initial organism? You're trying to have your cake and eat it.

They are not quite the same thing as one can be observed and proven... the other is only assumed.

If you accept one, you must accept the other; they are exactly the same thing, just over a different timescale.

Tell that to my biology professor and doctor...

Very true, but I don't like calling anything in science factual since, as you said, new evidence comes to light that either supports or opposes the stated theory or hypothesis.

I guess my opinion doesn't matter in this case, though.

-Jiggles-

Tell that to my biology professor and doctor... mindstorm

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]Very true, but I don't like calling anything in science factual since, as you said, new evidence comes to light that either supports or opposes the stated theory or hypothesis.

I guess my opinion doesn't matter in this case, though.

foxhound_fox

Ah, I see what you're getting at now.

Never mind my mindset, then.

Sorry, I don't believe we come from a massive destruction (Big Bang) that could bring life on Earth.

I don't believe it just popped out some monocellular being, from nowhere, and that monocellular being has been evolving in millions of species over time.

The same for vegetal kingdom.

Flames welcomed :roll:

Sorry, I don't believe we come from a massive destruction (Big Bang) that could bring life on Earth.

I don't believe it just popped out some monocellular being, from nowhere, and that monocellular being has been evolving in millions of species over time.

The same for vegetal kingdom.

Flames welcomed :roll:

eloyc

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Tell that to my biology professor and doctor... foxhound_fox

So you completely disregard what he says even though he's educated? Another of my professors (teaches chemistry) attained his Ph. D. before becoming a Christian... he did not believe evolution to be true even before his conversion. Why not listen to what they have to say?

[QUOTE="eloyc"]

Sorry, I don't believe we come from a massive destruction (Big Bang) that could bring life on Earth.

I don't believe it just popped out some monocellular being, from nowhere, and that monocellular being has been evolving in millions of species over time.

The same for vegetal kingdom.

Flames welcomed :roll:

foxhound_fox

Ok, but tell that to the scientists I've been listening to.

By the way, I respect you. :P

So you completely disregard what he says even though he's educated? Another of my professors (teaches chemistry) attained his Ph. D. before becoming a Christian... he did not believe evolution to be true even before his conversion. Why not listen to what they have to say?mindstorm

For whatever reason. I'm not trying to start a religion thread again. I'm just wondering what peoples feelings are on Evolution.Robinho1873

I believe that religion facilitates evolution, but isn't evolution still regarded as a theory scientifically?

Sorry, I don't believe we come from a massive destruction (Big Bang) that could bring life on Earth.

I don't believe it just popped out some monocellular being, from nowhere, and that monocellular being has been evolving in millions of species over time.

The same for vegetal kingdom.

Flames welcomed :roll:

eloyc

evolution and the big bang have nothing to do with eachother, you have no idea what your taking about

:|

also i can say the same thing for creationism, once upon a time there was nothing...then adam and eve

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]So you completely disregard what he says even though he's educated? Another of my professors (teaches chemistry) attained his Ph. D. before becoming a Christian... he did not believe evolution to be true even before his conversion. Why not listen to what they have to say?foxhound_fox

Excellently put.

evolution and the big bang have nothing to do with eachother, you have no idea what your taking about

legend26

Yes, of course evolutionists DON'T believe in Big Bang.

also i can say the same thing for creationism, once upon a time there was nothing...then adam and eve

legend26

Although I'm Christian, I don't think one has to be Christian to deny evolution or find it a lame explanation of the origin of all species of the world.

PS: just a little Off-Topic: I always wondered who's there in your avatar :| :D

[QUOTE="legend26"]

evolution and the big bang have nothing to do with eachother, you have no idea what your taking about

eloyc

Yes, of course evolutionists DON'T believe in Big Bang.

also i can say the same thing for creationism, once upon a time there was nothing...then adam and eve

legend26

Although I'm Christian, I don't think one has to be Christian to deny evolution or find it a lame explanation of the origin of all species of the world.

PS: just a little Off-Topic: I always wondered who's there in your avatar :| :D

How can you possibly find the one theory that combines all of Biology and holds the answer to how life diversified into billions of species lame?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]So you completely disregard what he says even though he's educated? Another of my professors (teaches chemistry) attained his Ph. D. before becoming a Christian... he did not believe evolution to be true even before his conversion. Why not listen to what they have to say?foxhound_fox

And plus. Newton was only 1 man. Gallieo was only 1 man. Einstein was only 1 man. It only takes 1 man to completely change the way we look at the world. Just because the majority see's something one way, doesn't mean you should completely disregard the minority.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]So you completely disregard what he says even though he's educated? Another of my professors (teaches chemistry) attained his Ph. D. before becoming a Christian... he did not believe evolution to be true even before his conversion. Why not listen to what they have to say?Silenthps

And plus. Newton was only 1 man. Gallieo was only 1 man. Einstein was only 1 man. It only takes 1 man to completely change the way we look at the world. Just because the majority see's something one way, doesn't mean you should completely disregard the minority.

Just like Charles Darwin was one man? Don't disregard his thinking either.;)

i dont deny micro evolutionSilenthps

And what about macro evolution?

Christians I think.aaronmullan

Not all Christians. ;)

[QUOTE="legend26"]

evolution and the big bang have nothing to do with eachother, you have no idea what your taking about

eloyc

Yes, of course evolutionists DON'T believe in Big Bang.

also i can say the same thing for creationism, once upon a time there was nothing...then adam and eve

legend26

Although I'm Christian, I don't think one has to be Christian to deny evolution or find it a lame explanation of the origin of all species of the world.

PS: just a little Off-Topic: I always wondered who's there in your avatar :| :D

and how is it lame? there are freaking MOUNTAINS OF evidence for evolution, and what about creationism? oh yeah a book written thousands of years ago, i want more evidence then that

and how about you actually come up with an argument insted of

"lol evolution is so lame"

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Evolution is not a fact. Nothing in the fields of science are, because new evidence is constantly discovered and theories are constantly drawn by scientists all over the globe.

Evolution has so much evidence in favor of it, however, that it is almost undeniable to anybody who studies it. Only the most idiotic of people (extremists, fundamentalists, illiterates) would blindly deny it's existance.

legend26

gravity?

Using this same formula, can i calculate how long it takes to hit the ground when being dropped from 5 miles in the sky? No, you have to factor in things like air resistance and the fact that the constant changes as you get higher up.

Likewise, we are assuming that just because some bacteria can go from being a bacteria, to a penicillin resistant bacteria (hint: ITS STILL BACTERIA), that we all came from the same species billions of years ago. We have to take a huge leap of faith and assume that there is no metaphorical "air resistance" that made the earth what is is today.

A billion years... is a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time. Most people cant even grasp the concept of how long it truly is, let alone try to describe what the earth was like back then. There is so much stuff in that time that could have altered all the evidence you guys have for it, that even if your theory is true, I HIGHLY doubt it happened the same way you all think it did.

I suggest everybody just dumps evolution, put all your time, money and energy on REAL observable science, and maybe we can really learn about what really happened.

And no, religon is not the reason i dont believe in (macro)evolution. Unlike athiest who need evolution to support their world view, I dont need to believe in creationism to support my world view. I simply do it because it's the most logical to me.