Does resorting to physical discipline on your kids make you a bad parent?

[QUOTE="Sunfyre7896"]

Withhold meals?

Fightingfan

:o

Lol :lol:

I'm for a mix of spanking and then time out when they are old enough to realize what it is for and the spanking reinforces that they stay in time out or their room. Empty threats simply don't work. "Go to timeout." "No" Go to timeout!!" "No."What now? Withhold meals?

Sunfyre7896

no, but negative punishment (taking away a privledge, ie. tv) has more positive affects on the person receiving the punishment than postive punishment (spanking, in this case).

I believe if it comes to the point where things need to get physical, the parent has already failed.

It does not make you a bad parent. Sometimes physical discipline may be necessary. It should not be excessive.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Phoenix534"]

In my opinion, yes. Every situation, especially when dealing with children, can be solved with words. You just have to know what to say.

DarkGamer007

Force also creates disrespect, mistrust, and lack of understanding why something was wrong.

Yeah, no, consider reading up on operant conditioning. The human brain doesn't work like that.

Parents should be allowed to smack a kid if it's being an unbearable kunt.

I have no idea why thats so taboo in society now. Must be terrible to be a parent nowadays.

I got regularly hit over the head with a 2" x 4" and I turned out better for it. Everyone should do it.

No, it's a very effective method of discipline. However, the best parents know ways to get their children to behave without resorting to violence.Famiking

No.

Somehow in the last 20 years we've decided that the parenting principles that have worked for the past 50k years are somehow inhuman and need to be changed.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"] Sure, they do. You just have to know how to get on their level. nunovlopes

Have you ever tried to reason with a 3-year old?

No.

Somehow in the last 20 years we've decided that the parenting principles that have worked for the past 50k years are somehow inhuman and need to be changed.

Wasdie

This post reeks of ignorance. First of all little if anything is documented about parenting skills from 50k years ago. Oh, and I don't know how you would define "work" either.

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Exactly. And it's not like kids are unreasonable throughout their entire childhood.ghoklebutter

Have you ever tried to reason with a 3-year old?

After they just wont listen to you, step all over you, hit you, throw things at you, and curse at you? How far is too far?

Second_Hokage

I'll just say that a kid doesn't suddenly start to hit his/her parents, throw things at them and curse at them overnight.

You could still try and teach the kid right from wrong. Waiting for the year that they will best understand could end up be a much tougher challenge, because then you could be forcing the child to go against everything he/she has come to believe in over their life. Would be like trying to convince them that a toy they've played with for years isn't there's, and they can't play with it ever again lol.jesuschristmonk

lol I'm implying that resorting to reinforcement is necessary for young children who don't listen at all. :V

Also, I like to think of reasoning with kids as a gradual process; you can't just start being like that on the kid's 6th birthday or whatever.

[QUOTE="punkpunker"]

[QUOTE="JasonDarksavior"]You shouldn't ever hit your children, it teachers them to be scared and fearful of you.JasonDarksavior

isnt that the point of physical disipline? so to keep the kids in line when they have done something wrong?

Myparents spanked me as a kid...and I'm not scared of them. I loved them then andI love them now. Spankings are a great tool for discipline if used properly. A healthy fear of consequences is NOT a bad thing...it's part of the social contract.

As long as the parent explains why the spanking is occurring and why the behavior is unacceptable I have no problem with it at all.

i feel if you need to hit your kids then you havent done a good enough job as a parenttheSteeeeels

Please elaborate. What about spanking your kid means you have done a poor job?

[QUOTE="Addict187"]My kid if I had one? Lipped me off I would do the same thing my mother did to me. Smack them right in the face, so they know who is in charge. Just talking to somthing that can not be reasond with requires force to show they did wrong. I would not beat him but a good smack is warranted, then it has to be duntheone86

So, let me get this straight, your argument is that not only do children not know that you are in charge, but can only be reminded of it through the use of violence? Riiiiiigght...

No. I don't plan on having kids ever but if they were to step out of line I don't think light corporal punishment is out of the question.

I believe if it comes to the point where things need to get physical, the parent has already failed.

MirkoS77

I have heard this a few times in this thread. You make it sound like a spanking is a last resort after all other forms of punishment have been levied. The way I was raised, a spanking was just on the totem pole of punishments. Matter of fact, sometimes my dad gave me and my siblings a choice(based on the severity of our act(s). He'd say do you want to get grounded or spanked.

And almost always we'd choose the spanking. Getting physical doesn't mean you're hurting someone, you can be teaching them the consequences for their actions.

No.

Somehow in the last 20 years we've decided that the parenting principles that have worked for the past 50k years are somehow inhuman and need to be changed.

Wasdie

THIS...specifically this!!

Turn their bedroom into a prison, only a bed and a bucket for their natural needs. Lock them up in there and make sure the windows are secured.

No phone, no games, no internet. they'll learn who's the boss.

The super nanny has soiled our minds. :P

[QUOTE="Second_Hokage"]

After they just wont listen to you, step all over you, hit you, throw things at you, and curse at you? How far is too far?

Planet_Pluto

I'll just say that a kid doesn't suddenly start to hit his/her parents, throw things at them and curse at them overnight.

You're so wrong. My son started to hit us, slap us, bite us, when he was 15-months old. Out of the blue. Like if we didn't do something he wanted BAM. If you look it up on Google you'll find plenty of parents in the same situation. We never resorted to any sort of physical discipline before that and he never witnessed any sort of violence between anyone (he was not in daycare at the time).

Not all kids are the same of course. Some kids are "tougher" to deal with. Some kids if you shout at them they stop what they're doing. Others will laugh and carry on. Sometimes you just have no other possible course of action if you want them to stop whatever it is that they're doing.

You're so wrong. My son started to hit us, slap us, bite us, when he was 15-months old. Out of the blue. Like if we didn't do something he wanted BAM. If you look it up on Google you'll find plenty of parents in the same situation. We never resorted to any sort of physical discipline before that and he never witnessed any sort of violence between anyone (he was not in daycare at the time).

Not all kids are the same of course. Some kids are "tougher" to deal with. Some kids if you shout at them they stop what they're doing. Others will laugh and carry on. Sometimes you just have no other possible course of action if you want them to stop whatever it is that they're doing.

nunovlopes

Clearly, punishment and reward necessary for raising such kids. That doesn't mean that corporal punishment is a good option, though. Punishment doesn't have to be physical at all.

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="Second_Hokage"]

After they just wont listen to you, step all over you, hit you, throw things at you, and curse at you? How far is too far?

nunovlopes

I'll just say that a kid doesn't suddenly start to hit his/her parents, throw things at them and curse at them overnight.

You're so wrong. My son started to hit us, slap us, bite us, when he was 15-months old. Out of the blue. Like if we didn't do something he wanted BAM. If you look it up on Google you'll find plenty of parents in the same situation. We never resorted to any sort of physical discipline before that and he never witnessed any sort of violence between anyone (he was not in daycare at the time).

Not all kids are the same of course. Some kids are "tougher" to deal with. Some kids if you shout at them they stop what they're doing. Others will laugh and carry on. Sometimes you just have no other possible course of action if you want them to stop whatever it is that they're doing.

Fortunately, ours is only 5 1/2 months old, so we still have a little while before he turns into a monster.

Not unless your really beating your child. Some kids need it more than others.

Not really, but it doesn't always work. My parents used to beat the hell out me over every little thing back in the day (since that's how they were raised I guess), and all it really did was piss me off. As I got older, they calmed down and my behavior improved...

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

You're so wrong. My son started to hit us, slap us, bite us, when he was 15-months old. Out of the blue. Like if we didn't do something he wanted BAM. If you look it up on Google you'll find plenty of parents in the same situation. We never resorted to any sort of physical discipline before that and he never witnessed any sort of violence between anyone (he was not in daycare at the time).

Not all kids are the same of course. Some kids are "tougher" to deal with. Some kids if you shout at them they stop what they're doing. Others will laugh and carry on. Sometimes you just have no other possible course of action if you want them to stop whatever it is that they're doing.

ghoklebutter

Clearly, punishment and reward necessary for raising such kids. That doesn't mean that corporal punishment is a good option, though. Punishment doesn't have to be physical at all.

The thing with some kids is that they just can't help to misbehave sopunishment and reward doesn't necessarily work. My kid (3-year old) for example places very little value in his toys. So if I just take his toys he complains for a while but quickly shrugs it off and proceeds to play with something else.

It's a balance, and it's hard work, but so worth it.

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]"Physical discipline" is too vague for me to answer. Are we talking about beating the crap out of a kid? Are we talking about the old "smack the kids hand if he is reaching into afire?" Are we talking about restraining a kid that is going on a tirade?

I'll just say that a kid doesn't suddenly start to hit his/her parents, throw things at them and curse at them overnight.

Planet_Pluto

You're so wrong. My son started to hit us, slap us, bite us, when he was 15-months old. Out of the blue. Like if we didn't do something he wanted BAM. If you look it up on Google you'll find plenty of parents in the same situation. We never resorted to any sort of physical discipline before that and he never witnessed any sort of violence between anyone (he was not in daycare at the time).

Not all kids are the same of course. Some kids are "tougher" to deal with. Some kids if you shout at them they stop what they're doing. Others will laugh and carry on. Sometimes you just have no other possible course of action if you want them to stop whatever it is that they're doing.

Fortunately, ours is only 5 1/2 months old, so we still have a little while before he turns into a monster.

:) All the best. I have a 1-year old daughter too and she's the oppostite of her brother, so calm and gentle.

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

You're so wrong. My son started to hit us, slap us, bite us, when he was 15-months old. Out of the blue. Like if we didn't do something he wanted BAM. If you look it up on Google you'll find plenty of parents in the same situation. We never resorted to any sort of physical discipline before that and he never witnessed any sort of violence between anyone (he was not in daycare at the time).

Not all kids are the same of course. Some kids are "tougher" to deal with. Some kids if you shout at them they stop what they're doing. Others will laugh and carry on. Sometimes you just have no other possible course of action if you want them to stop whatever it is that they're doing.

nunovlopes

Fortunately, ours is only 5 1/2 months old, so we still have a little while before he turns into a monster.

:) All the best. I have a 1-year old daughter too and she's the oppostite of her brother, so calm and gentle.

The thing with some kids is that they just can't help to misbehave sopunishment and reward doesn't necessarily work. My kid (3-year old) for example places very little value in his toys. So if I just take his toys he complains for a while but quickly shrugs it off and proceeds to play with something else.

It's a balance, and it's hard work, but so worth it.

nunovlopes

It really depends on how the punishment is carried out. Perhaps it has to be harsh - but that doesn't mean it has to be physical, at least in my view.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I hope I didn't come off as judgmental, because I understand that some parents have it pretty rough.

Of course I did (I mean use physical discipline). I only had to do it once. After that, a stern voice is enough to get my kids back in line. The youngest one will still try to test me to see how far she can go which is fine so long as she doesn't cross the line. My eldest? I don't even have to worry about her. She's well on her way to becoming an adult, able to get her homework and other responsibilities done without much prodding from me.

I get strict very early on so parenting gets easier later on.

Like I said, my kid started to bite us really early. And I don't mean gentle bites, it really hurt. And it was constant and for the most trivial things like he didn't want to take a bath or something. Nothing we did seemed to make any difference. One day he bit me really hard and I just snapped. I bit him back. The second after I felt mortified. I googled about it and found out about parents that did just that and their kids learned the hard way and never did it again. My kid tried to bite me again just a few hours later, it's like he knows no fear. Not that I want him to fear me, of course not, but man, it's hard.

One day he just stopped. Go figure.

He can be such a pest and 1 minute later so lovable!

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

No.

Somehow in the last 20 years we've decided that the parenting principles that have worked for the past 50k years are somehow inhuman and need to be changed.

TacticalDesire

This post reeks of ignorance. First of all little if anything is documented about parenting skills from 50k years ago. Oh, and I don't know how you would define "work" either.

Because putting kids in "timeout" has been around for centuries. Quit being pot getting onto kettle. Getting spanked and phsically punished has been around for quite some time. People turned out fine. We're still here.

The largest problem is that everyone's on this progressive, "perfect parent" movement. 'I have to read to my child in the womb' 'I have to teach them things from a week old' 'They need helmets to ride bikes and pads over their entire body when running around.' At some point people have to realize that parenting is a skill that everyone develops. There's no instruction manual and no matter how perfect you think you're parenting, there's always kids that just turn out bad. Rich kids killing the homeless and other people. Had it all, turned out bad. Beating is wrong, spanking at a young age to reinforce future non-spanking punishments isn't.

Getting spanked and phsically punished has been around for quite some time. People turned out fine. We're still here.

Sunfyre7896

You don't have the right to be sure about that. The adverse effects of corporal punishment aren't always obvious.

[QUOTE="Sunfyre7896"]

Getting spanked and phsically punished has been around for quite some time. People turned out fine. We're still here.

ghoklebutter

You don't have the right to be sure about that. The adverse effects of corporal punishment aren't always obvious.

I didn't realize that everybody that was walking around before timeout existed was fu**ed up. Was that from some book that you read? I guess I have been schooled. My grandparents and my friend's grandparents and all those elderly that I've always seen everywhere are fu**ed up from all of the punishment before timeout came into being.

This sounds like trying to sound scientific to fit your agenda. Are you going to tell me that most people throughout the centuries that were spanked turned out really messed up or were all just hiding it out of embarrassment? How can you be so sure that people were so messed up from being spanked that they all needed a psychiatrist or just went psychotic and were maladjusted for society? And what's with the whole 'I don't have the right' statement? I don't have the right to have common sense. Well then I really am sorry. Pardon meeee. I didn't mean to use common sense.

I didn't realize that everybody that was walking around before timeout existed was fu**ed up. Was that from some book that you read? I guess I have been schooled. My grandparents and my friend's grandparents and all those elderly that I've always seen everywhere are fu**ed up from all of the punishment before timeout came into being.

This sounds like trying to sound scientific to fit your agenda. Are you going to tell me that most people throughout the centuries that were spanked turned out really messed up or were all just hiding it out of embarrassment? How can you be so sure that people were so messed up from being spanked that they all needed a psychiatrist or just went psychotic and were maladjusted for society? And what's with the whole 'I don't have the right' statement? I don't have the right to have common sense. Well then I really am sorry. Pardon meeee. I didn't mean to use common sense.

Sunfyre7896

Pardon me for the misleading language. By saying that you don't have the right to be sure, I meant that your belief is unjustified and based on pure conjecture, regardless of whether it's really true. Also, appealing to common sense as a way of supporting your argument is completely absurd.

Corporal punishment doesn't automatically turn people into sociopaths, but it does tend to make them selfish and cowardly. After all, who is more selfish: the one who avoids crime for the sake of society, or the one who avoids crime for the sake of not going to jail? Their behavior is exactly the same, but their intentions are not. And intentions matter. The same idea applies to child-rearing. Kids can be raised to be altruistic without threats of punishment and promises of rewards.

I don't mean to say that very young kids who are unruly should be free to do whatever they want. But punishment doesn't need to be physical in any case. Of course, it's probably much harder to raise kids without spanking them, but difficulty doesn't matter here if not punishing kids is more beneficial.

[QUOTE="theSteeeeels"]i feel if you need to hit your kids then you havent done a good enough job as a parentsayyy-gaa

Please elaborate. What about spanking your kid means you have done a poor job?

I would look up stuff on this, but i think i read many months ago that corporal punishment could make kids more aggressive when they grow up. I think it was some in some kind of study.

[QUOTE="Sunfyre7896"]

I didn't realize that everybody that was walking around before timeout existed was fu**ed up. Was that from some book that you read? I guess I have been schooled. My grandparents and my friend's grandparents and all those elderly that I've always seen everywhere are fu**ed up from all of the punishment before timeout came into being.

This sounds like trying to sound scientific to fit your agenda. Are you going to tell me that most people throughout the centuries that were spanked turned out really messed up or were all just hiding it out of embarrassment? How can you be so sure that people were so messed up from being spanked that they all needed a psychiatrist or just went psychotic and were maladjusted for society? And what's with the whole 'I don't have the right' statement? I don't have the right to have common sense. Well then I really am sorry. Pardon meeee. I didn't mean to use common sense.

ghoklebutter

Corporal punishment doesn't automatically turn people into sociopaths, but it does tend to make them selfish and cowardly. After all, who is more selfish: the one who avoids crime for the sake of society, or the one who avoids crime for the sake of not going to jail? Their behavior is exactly the same, but their intentions are not. And intentions matter. The same idea applies to child-rearing. Kids can be raised to be altruistic without threats of punishment and promises of rewards.

It's interesting you make this statement in the form of a question. Are you advocating that all punishment is bad, or just unnecessary? Because you also say that the threat of punishment is bad. Whether or not you think it's just that spanking is bad or all types, you are asking whether someone is more selfish for not committing crimes for the betterment of society of because they're afraid of repercussions.

Well, let me pose it to you this way or rather ask this question also firstly. What is time-out and do you think that is wrong also? Because essentially, going to jail is a form of time-out for members of society that don't adhere to laws that are judged to be fair for all of that society. So, are kids that aren't spanked, yet put in time-out and grow up to fear going to jail, selfish as well? You pose the question as if these are the only two reasons and it seems based on some utopian society ideal, where most people would never commit crime for the sake of society because they've not been spanked. Are you stating that people that don't commit crime for reason one, never think about not going to jail also as if they're mutually exclusive? Some people, like myself don't commit crimes for both reasons. Neither do I want to be a detriment to society, but I'm also fearful of going to prison, but it has nothing to do with corporal punishment. And I was spanked as a child. I wouldn't consider myself selfish and cowardly just because you assume that spanking creates hordes and legions of cowards.

Laws were intially put into place for the betterment of society, but also to DETER people from making the poor decisions that would land them in trouble. All forms of punishment are meant to deter a certain behavior. That is the way our animal minds are programmed. No matter if it's spanking, timeout, taking away of television or toys, it sticks in our minds that we shouldn't do that behavior again and that is our main motivation growing up. Laws work the same way once we are fully grown.

If you believe in non-spanking punishments, then realize that they also instill a fear of doing that behavior again. If you don't believe in punishment of those levels, then I'd like to see you explain the moral ethics of society to a 2 year old; or even try to just stick them in timeout and let them understand why they're in there thoroughly. Because your 12 year old doesn't go shoplifting because they so respect your parenting skills and ethics or because they don't want to be grounded makes almost no difference. What matters is that they know it's wrong to do that and that you can be punished for it by going to jail when they get older.