Does the U.S. really have allies in the middle east?

Even though over the years the U.S. has made many allies in the Middle East to fight terrorism, are they really our allies? (Except for Isreal)I don't think so. Iran claims that they are using the nuclear program for peaceful reasons(source)but obviously the history, the half crazy leader, and evidence, proved otherwise, because the U.N. delayed the process by taking measures against the program. And how did the Pakistanis not notice that the U.S.'s greatest enemy was sitting in their country for five years? They must have known, but they withheld the information, and if that is true, then that leads to the conclusion that they support terrorism. Same with Saudi Arabia.

I think we just want them as allies to help against terrorism, but you would be fooling yourself if you think they will actually assist the U.S.. On the outside they act like they are against the terrorism that sprouts from their country, but they actually nurture it behind the scenes. There is too much political corruption and too many powerful figures who dislike the U.S. for that to happen. Otherwise this war would be over by now. That's my opinion. What do you guys think, agree/disagree?

Here is my source for the allies of the U.S., and here is my source for the suspicion of Pakistan knowing where Osama was hiding, even though I don't need a source to know this.

Here is the important part:

The United States has seven major non-NATO allies in the Greater Middle East region. These allies are Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Kuwait, Pakistan, and Morocco. Israel and Egypt are leading recipients of foreign aid, receiving 2.75 billion[19] and 1.75 billion[20] in 2010. United States has invested several hundred billion dollars in re-building Iraq's infrastructure and military in the aftermath of 2003 invasion of Iraq.[21] Turkey is host to approximately 90 B61 nuclear bombs at Incirlik Air Base.[22] Other allies include Qatar, where 3,500 US troops are based.[23] The U.S. has built a non-NATO alliance with Pakistan to assist with the War in Afghanistan and jointly combat terror in the subcontinent.

The U.S. have paid for enough of them, I should hope so, the dollar is still worth something.

and that is only because we offer them protection weezyfb

Alot of princes in Saudi Arabia have been known to fund jihad. And the Saudis hate Isreal, and visa versa.

We're pretty tight with Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq

Aside from Israel, no. The Western world did many wrong things in the Middle East for us (or me in this case) to ever forgive them. They showed their intentions, and I do not endorse it.

If you're talking politics however, then sure, Saudi Arabia and Iraqi officials are very kin to Western powers.

None of those are really allies. They are simply accomodations of convenience.

Israel is perhaps the worst ally of the bunch of them, although they are by far the most skilled at playing the US.

You're probably in tight with all of them.

The US pretty much bribes governments into complying with them so they can get the oil from the region but no, they are not real allies. Look at Egypt, no matter how much money the US gave to them the people was fed up with their opressive rule and the goverment probably stole most of the money anyways. Whatever comes next in Egypt is probably not going to be very US friendly.kuraimen

I can tell you this: if there's anyone that can restore Pan-Arabism at the moment, then it has to be reformed Egypt. Mubark was extremely reluctant to stepping down, but the Egyptian nation handled the situation astoundingly.

The US pretty much bribes governments into complying with them so they can get the oil from the region but no, they are not real allies. Look at Egypt, no matter how much money the US gave to them the people was fed up with their opressive rule and the goverment probably stole most of the money anyways. Whatever comes next in Egypt is probably not going to be very US friendly.kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]The US pretty much bribes governments into complying with them so they can get the oil from the region but no, they are not real allies. Look at Egypt, no matter how much money the US gave to them the people was fed up with their opressive rule and the goverment probably stole most of the money anyways. Whatever comes next in Egypt is probably not going to be very US friendly.Victorious_Fize

I can tell you this: if there's anyone that can restore Pan-Arabism at the moment, then it has to be reformed Egypt. Mubark was extremely reluctant to stepping down, but the Egyptian nation handled the situation astoundingly.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]The US pretty much bribes governments into complying with them so they can get the oil from the region but no, they are not real allies. Look at Egypt, no matter how much money the US gave to them the people was fed up with their opressive rule and the goverment probably stole most of the money anyways. Whatever comes next in Egypt is probably not going to be very US friendly.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]The US pretty much bribes governments into complying with them so they can get the oil from the region but no, they are not real allies. Look at Egypt, no matter how much money the US gave to them the people was fed up with their opressive rule and the goverment probably stole most of the money anyways. Whatever comes next in Egypt is probably not going to be very US friendly.kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] The political climate means you keep an appearance at the very least of friendship with countries that might have some importance. Nothing diplomatic is solely based on who is good or bad and who one likes or dislikes. :|LJS9502_basic

What? if you give money to the government that is oppressing the people you're supporting and making that government stronger. Of course the people will and should care about that.

Besides, the government was complying with whatever the Us wanted which was supporting Israel and helping secure oil routes and the people of Egypt clearly are against that.

What? if you give money to the government that is oppressing the people you're supporting and making that government stronger. Of course the people will and should care about that.

Besides, the government was complying with whatever the Us wanted which was supporting Israel and helping secure oil routes and the people of Egypt clearly are against that.

kuraimen

What a surprise. People in the ME are against Israel. It's time to get past it and move on.

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

What? if you give money to the government that is oppressing the people you're supporting and making that government stronger. Of course the people will and should care about that.

Besides, the government was complying with whatever the Us wanted which was supporting Israel and helping secure oil routes and the people of Egypt clearly are against that.

LJS9502_basic

What a surprise. People in the ME are against Israel. It's time to get past it and move on.

They didn't send the money because they have problems they send the money to ensure that Egypt kept supporting Israel and their oil routes. The people in Egypt are not stupid, they realize this and that's one of the reasons they overthrew their government.

You said it yourself in another thread I think you want the US to leave that region to their fate. Well why are you compalinng then? maybe this is the start of finally the US getting out of there for good.

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Harisemo

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Harisemo

Why does Pakistan rely on USAID support then? Why did Pakistan, in light of that, show themselves either duplicitous or plain incompetent?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

What? if you give money to the government that is oppressing the people you're supporting and making that government stronger. Of course the people will and should care about that.

Besides, the government was complying with whatever the Us wanted which was supporting Israel and helping secure oil routes and the people of Egypt clearly are against that.

kuraimen

What a surprise. People in the ME are against Israel. It's time to get past it and move on.

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Harisemo

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]That's a narrow way to look at it. If country x has some problems and country y wants to help....they send money. Now I suppose one could totally ignore the problem and not try to help. Exactly how would that help the people? They wouldn't like country y for an entirely new reason.

What a surprise. People in the ME are against Israel. It's time to get past it and move on.

Firebird-5

Well the people of Egypt pretty much said that they don't want you there. So I guess you could stop with the "aid" and they wouldn't complain much since much of that "aid" ended up in Mubarak and friends pockets anyways.

The Egyptian governemnt was definitely offering something back by supporting Israel and securing oil routes for the US.

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Firebird-5

Why does Pakistan rely on USAID support then? Why did Pakistan, in light of that, show themselves either duplicitous or plain incompetent?

US aid does nothing for the Pakistani people, it all goes to corrupt politicians who then do US's dirty work, ask any Pakistani on the street, US canshove the aid up their butt.As for Osama, intelligence failures happen and 9/11 would be a good example...so is US incompetent or were they complicit in 9/11?

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Danm_999

Funny because US actually brought this corrupt government into power.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Harisemo

Funny because US actually brought this corrupt government into power.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Harisemo

Why does Pakistan rely on USAID support then? Why did Pakistan, in light of that, show themselves either duplicitous or plain incompetent?

US aid does nothing for the Pakistani people, it all goes to corrupt politicians who then do US's dirty work, ask any Pakistani on the street, US canshove the aid up their butt.As for Osama, intelligence failures happen and 9/11 would be a good example...so is US incompetent or were they complicit in 9/11?

Yes, because education and critical infrastrucutre such as electricity generation doesn't help the Pakistani people at all. One does not measure how effective foreign aid has been by seeing how many US dollars are in someone's wallet. Your first point was just plain wrong.

As for your second point, the US doesn't have groups sympathetic to islamist extremist movements in its intelligence community. Your second point, is plain wrong also. Intelligence failures do not extend to missing the world's most wanted terrorist whi has been living next to a military base for 5 years.

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"] I don't imagine the USA is too thrilled with Pakistan anyway, seeing as how the Pakistani government and the ISI were either too corrupt or too inept to realize Bin Laden had been in Abbotabad for nearly a decade.LJS9502_basic

Funny because US actually brought this corrupt government into power.

Imran Khan, the leader of PTI (Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf), a political party, he's not corrupt and if the next elections are fair he will probably win but US will never support him.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Harisemo

Why does Pakistan rely on USAID support then? Why did Pakistan, in light of that, show themselves either duplicitous or plain incompetent?

US aid does nothing for the Pakistani people, it all goes to corrupt politicians who then do US's dirty work, ask any Pakistani on the street, US canshove the aid up their butt.As for Osama, intelligence failures happen and 9/11 would be a good example...so is US incompetent or were they complicit in 9/11?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

Funny because US actually brought this corrupt government into power.

Harisemo

Imran Khan, the leader of PTI (Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf), a political party, he's not corrupt and if the next elections are fair he will probably win but US will never support him.

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

Why does Pakistan rely on USAID support then? Why did Pakistan, in light of that, show themselves either duplicitous or plain incompetent?

LJS9502_basic

US aid does nothing for the Pakistani people, it all goes to corrupt politicians who then do US's dirty work, ask any Pakistani on the street, US canshove the aid up their butt.As for Osama, intelligence failures happen and 9/11 would be a good example...so is US incompetent or were they complicit in 9/11?

We shouldn't stop any aid! Aid is most effective when it is used to promote long term growth, rather than to punish governments. Take for example, the Gomal Zam Dam, which USAID helped fund. Construction was completed last month and it will provide electricity for 25,000 households.

I would say no. THe suppose allies are just trying to get US Aid. Which is stupid in my opinion because we need all the money we can get over here.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

The amount of times U.S. has backstabbed Pakistan I really wouldn't call them an ally. Majority of Pakistanis hate U.S., it's probably same with other ME countries.

Harisemo

Funny because US actually brought this corrupt government into power.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Harisemo"] I don't imagine the USA is too thrilled with Pakistan anyway, seeing as how the Pakistani government and the ISI were either too corrupt or too inept to realize Bin Laden had been in Abbotabad for nearly a decade.Harisemo

Funny because US actually brought this corrupt government into power.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

US aid does nothing for the Pakistani people, it all goes to corrupt politicians who then do US's dirty work, ask any Pakistani on the street, US canshove the aid up their butt.As for Osama, intelligence failures happen and 9/11 would be a good example...so is US incompetent or were they complicit in 9/11?

Firebird-5

We shouldn't stop any aid! Aid is most effective when it is used to promote long term growth, rather than to punish governments. Take for example, the Gomal Zam Dam, which USAID helped fund. Construction was completed last month and it will provide electricity for 25,000 households.

We shouldn't stop any aid! Aid is most effective when it is used to promote long term growth, rather than to punish governments. Take for example, the Gomal Zam Dam, which USAID helped fund. Construction was completed last month and it will provide electricity for 25,000 households.

Firebird-5

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Oh I'd imagine that money does do somethings for the Pakistani people. I suppose if we want to show the benefits we should stop the aid. As for the intell community....considering the Pakistan government was helping hide Osama....that would explain the DELAY. But in the end...they found him.kuraimen

We shouldn't stop any aid! Aid is most effective when it is used to promote long term growth, rather than to punish governments. Take for example, the Gomal Zam Dam, which USAID helped fund. Construction was completed last month and it will provide electricity for 25,000 households.

What? Infrastrucutre is critical for development - how many vital parts of it don't need electricity. It provides for hospitals, communications, and modernises their economy. The US is trying to build states that will be parts of the world order, turning Pakistan into something of a rogue state like Iran or North Korea doesn't help at all.

And we need to take care of the domestic side of things first before we throw money around we don't have.

LJS9502_basic

The US Fed hit the debt ceiling the past week; how much longer can it go on.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

We shouldn't stop any aid! Aid is most effective when it is used to promote long term growth, rather than to punish governments. Take for example, the Gomal Zam Dam, which USAID helped fund. Construction was completed last month and it will provide electricity for 25,000 households.

LJS9502_basic

Yes. Cutting any and all foreign investment or aid would shoot US foreign legitimacy and opinion into the stratosphere. What a plan! I'm sure the GOP would like to hire you.

Yes, because education and critical infrastrucutre such as electricity generation doesn't help the Pakistani people at all. One does not measure how effective foreign aid has been by seeing how many US dollars are in someone's wallet. Your first point was just plain wrong.

As for your second point, the US doesn't have groups sympathetic to islamist extremist movements in its intelligence community. Your second point, is plain wrong also. Intelligence failures do not extend to missing the world's most wanted terrorist whi has been living next to a military base for 5 years.

Firebird-5

:lol: education? electricity generation? from US aid? where? how many schools have been built using this aid? http://tribune.com.pk/story/169730/no-to-foreign-aid-for-punjab-shahbaz-sharif/and this coming from a corrupt piece of s*** himself. The US aid DOES NOTHING and PAKISTANI PEOPLE DON'T WANT THE AID, YOU CAN KEEP IT, seriously.

US had to use satellite imaging among other stuff and they still did not know 100% bin laden was in the compound....so how could ISI? There is no one in ISI who would help Al Qaeda or bin laden as it's noteveninPakistan's interest. I think being unable to prevent a 9/11 type incident is a bigger intelligence failure then finding someone who is living in a house, in a single room he never leaves and with very little contact with outside world.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And we need to take care of the domestic side of things first before we throw money around we don't have.

Danm_999

The US Fed hit the debt ceiling the past week; how much longer can it go on.

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Or is possible that no matter who is power they'd be corrupt?LJS9502_basic

Imran Khan, the leader of PTI (Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf), a political party, he's not corrupt and if the next elections are fair he will probably win but US will never support him.

lol if only you knew about Imran Khan.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

We shouldn't stop any aid! Aid is most effective when it is used to promote long term growth, rather than to punish governments. Take for example, the Gomal Zam Dam, which USAID helped fund. Construction was completed last month and it will provide electricity for 25,000 households.

Firebird-5

Yes. Cutting any and all foreign investment or aid would shoot US foreign legitimacy and opinion into the stratosphere. What a plan! I'm sure the GOP would like to hire you.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

Yes, because education and critical infrastrucutre such as electricity generation doesn't help the Pakistani people at all. One does not measure how effective foreign aid has been by seeing how many US dollars are in someone's wallet. Your first point was just plain wrong.

As for your second point, the US doesn't have groups sympathetic to islamist extremist movements in its intelligence community. Your second point, is plain wrong also. Intelligence failures do not extend to missing the world's most wanted terrorist whi has been living next to a military base for 5 years.

Harisemo

:lol: education? electricity generation? from US aid? where? how many schools have been built using this aid? http://tribune.com.pk/story/169730/no-to-foreign-aid-for-punjab-shahbaz-sharif/and this coming from a corrupt piece of s*** himself. The US aid DOES NOTHING and PAKISTANI PEOPLE DON'T WANT THE AID, YOU CAN KEEP IT, seriously.

US had to use satellite imaging among other stuff and they still did not know 100% bin laden was in the compound....so how could ISI? There is no one in ISI who would help Al Qaeda or bin laden as it's noteveninPakistan's interest. I think being unable to prevent a 9/11 type incident is a bigger intelligence failure then finding someone who is living in a house, in a single room he never leaves and with very little contact with outside world.

First paragraph is just completely wrong.

Second is completely wrong as well, because the CIA found him without the ISI's help (and the ISI couldn't do this, in their own backyard, because...?). Straight from the horse's mouth, Mike Rogers, chair of the PSCI.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

Imran Khan, the leader of PTI (Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf), a political party, he's not corrupt and if the next elections are fair he will probably win but US will never support him.

Harisemo

lol if only you knew about Imran Khan.

Oh I'd imagine that money does do somethings for the Pakistani people. I suppose if we want to show the benefits we should stop the aid. As for the intell community....considering the Pakistan government was helping hide Osama....that would explain the DELAY. But in the end...they found him.LJS9502_basic

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13448589

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Oh I'd imagine that money does do somethings for the Pakistani people. I suppose if we want to show the benefits we should stop the aid. As for the intell community....considering the Pakistan government was helping hide Osama....that would explain the DELAY. But in the end...they found him.Harisemo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13448589