Dumped bride tries to jump from 7th-story window...

It's sad she would take it that far. One thing I can say is that she may be sad about it now, but eventually she will find somebody else. Especially since going by the picture she's not a bad looking girl. The crazy factor just needs to be put aside.

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]If you put it that way, then are we not allowed to call someone who is in an insane asylum illogical because in his own mind, he is not?
You said that people should expect council, but how can you give council to someone whom no ones know has a problem? In this case, if the man had not grabbed her, she would've died and had no chance to be given council, but because the man had saved her, she will be given a chance. If she really wanted to kill herself, she would most likely attempt it again, so I see nothing wrong with preventing suicide attempts. rawsavon

You are making many, many assumptions...too many (that go against documented behavior for people that commit suicide).
1. How do you know she has not talked about this...that no one knew?
2. Almost every suicide has warning signs (documented warning signs in psychology)
-so even if she did not verbalize it, people knew something was wrong

So either she talked about this with someone OR others knew and chose not to talk about it with her

Suiciders do not just decide on the spur of the moment (except in rare, extreme situations).
They are almost always well planned and thought about for a long time
-that is proven by the fact that she chose a public place and what she chose to wear
-she wanted there to be a scene and she chose that attire for a reason

This shows that
1. there was time for people to talk to her
2. she has capable of planning/reasoned thought processes

Your post is just as presumptuous as lonelynight's :|

You're assuming people knew something was wrong, even if she didn't verbalise it.

You're assuming she talked about her problem or that others chose not to talk to her about it.

How do you know this isn't one of those rare, extreme situations? How do you know she didn't just freak out, put on her wedding dress, and go to the top of a building?

You're assuming that her choice to jump from a public place in her wedding dress was the result of a long, hard thought process.

You're assuming she chose to wear the dress to make a scene - she could have chosen to wear it because she wanted to die as the guy's bride, for all you know.

You're assuming there was time for people to talk to her about committing suicide, or that people even knew.

You're making a huge assumption that she was capable of reasoned thought processes. She could very easily have lost her mind.

I'm not saying any of this is correct, but don't call out lonelynight on his/her assumptions when you did exactly the same thing.

I'm very glad to see she was saved. If the man hadn't of caught her she would be dead. I think with that in mind people need to stop associating this with the kind of behaviour we now see all over the internet, with facebook as an example. Just because there are a majority of people who believe updating their status saying "I'm going to kill myself" shows suicidal tendencies it doesn't mean there aren't real people out there with real suicidal tendencies.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]You are making many, many assumptions...too many (that go against documented behavior for people that commit suicide). 1. How do you know she has not talked about this...that no one knew? 2. Almost every suicide has warning signs (documented warning signs in psychology) -so even if she did not verbalize it, people knew something was wrong So either she talked about this with someone OR others knew and chose not to talk about it with her Suiciders do not just decide on the spur of the moment (except in rare, extreme situations). They are almost always well planned and thought about for a long time -that is proven by the fact that she chose a public place and what she chose to wear -she wanted there to be a scene and she chose that attire for a reason This shows that 1. there was time for people to talk to her 2. she has capable of planning/reasoned thought processesLonelynight

...and now you are just contradicting your previous post.
You said, and I quote, "I also support that people should be able to end their life as well"

You say you support a person's right to die. You just think the reason here is stupid....so now all of a sudden you don't support it. That is a hypocritical stance, and worse than that...you are imposing your value system on a another person

I already listed above why your assertions about suicidal people were 100% inaccurate.
-that they are well thought out and planned (not something that is spur of the moment and not thought out)
-this is evidenced by how she did the act (where and when show that she planned for this to be an event, what she wore shows she was sending a message...VERY much planned)
Also, how do you know how long this has been going on...how many times she talked about it/thought about it/etc

At the end of the day, there are 2 things wrong with your stance
1. It is a hypocritical stance
-you support a right to die, but you think this reason is stupid (as stated by you earlier)...so now you don't support it
2. Related to the above point...You are still trying to impose your vales on someone else...this is wrong

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]If you put it that way, then are we not allowed to call someone who is in an insane asylum illogical because in his own mind, he is not?
You said that people should expect council, but how can you give council to someone whom no ones know has a problem? In this case, if the man had not grabbed her, she would've died and had no chance to be given council, but because the man had saved her, she will be given a chance. If she really wanted to kill herself, she would most likely attempt it again, so I see nothing wrong with preventing suicide attempts. raynimrod

You are making many, many assumptions...too many (that go against documented behavior for people that commit suicide).
1. How do you know she has not talked about this...that no one knew?
2. Almost every suicide has warning signs (documented warning signs in psychology)
-so even if she did not verbalize it, people knew something was wrong

So either she talked about this with someone OR others knew and chose not to talk about it with her

Suiciders do not just decide on the spur of the moment (except in rare, extreme situations).
They are almost always well planned and thought about for a long time
-that is proven by the fact that she chose a public place and what she chose to wear
-she wanted there to be a scene and she chose that attire for a reason

This shows that
1. there was time for people to talk to her
2. she has capable of planning/reasoned thought processes

Your post is just as presumptuous as lonelynight's :|

You're assuming people knew something was wrong, even if she didn't verbalise it.

You're assuming she talked about her problem or that others chose not to talk to her about it.

How do you know this isn't one of those rare, extreme situations? How do you know she didn't just freak out, put on her wedding dress, and go to the top of a building?

You're assuming that her choice to jump from a public place in her wedding dress was the result of a long, hard thought process.

You're assuming she chose to wear the dress to make a scene - she could have chosen to wear it because she wanted to die as the guy's bride, for all you know.

You're assuming there was time for people to talk to her about committing suicide, or that people even knew.

You're making a huge assumption that she was capable of reasoned thought processes. She could very easily have lost her mind.

I'm not saying any of this is correct, but don't call out lonelynight on his/her assumptions when you did exactly the same thing.

Suicidal people give off VERY specific warning signs
(But let's say no one talked about with her for a moment, to take your side)
If no one picked up on them (the warning signs), well those are the breaks. I support people's right to die. So it would not bother me if this were the case

But you can tell from how this was carried out that it was not a spur of the moment decision...she was sending an intentional message (the where, when , how, and what she was wearing)
-further adding to this point is the fact that she went counter to how most females commit suicide (in order to send her message)

The difference b/w mine and his posts was that mine are backed up by data and research and training...

If you want to take the stance that nothing in life is 100% certain, that is fine...you are 100% correct. But then why even open your mouth to debate with another person in life...why would anyone discuss anything (if we can't take the most likely scenario/truth and go from there)

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]If you put it that way, then are we not allowed to call someone who is in an insane asylum illogical because in his own mind, he is not?
You said that people should expect council, but how can you give council to someone whom no ones know has a problem? In this case, if the man had not grabbed her, she would've died and had no chance to be given council, but because the man had saved her, she will be given a chance. If she really wanted to kill herself, she would most likely attempt it again, so I see nothing wrong with preventing suicide attempts. rawsavon

You are making many, many assumptions...too many (that go against documented behavior for people that commit suicide).
1. How do you know she has not talked about this...that no one knew?
2. Almost every suicide has warning signs (documented warning signs in psychology)
-so even if she did not verbalize it, people knew something was wrong

So either she talked about this with someone OR others knew and chose not to talk about it with her

Suiciders do not just decide on the spur of the moment (except in rare, extreme situations).
They are almost always well planned and thought about for a long time
-that is proven by the fact that she chose a public place and what she chose to wear
-she wanted there to be a scene and she chose that attire for a reason

This shows that
1. there was time for people to talk to her
2. she has capable of planning/reasoned thought processes

Your post is just as presumptuous as lonelynight's :|

You're assuming people knew something was wrong, even if she didn't verbalise it.

You're assuming she talked about her problem or that others chose not to talk to her about it.

How do you know this isn't one of those rare, extreme situations? How do you know she didn't just freak out, put on her wedding dress, and go to the top of a building?

You're assuming that her choice to jump from a public place in her wedding dress was the result of a long, hard thought process.

You're assuming she chose to wear the dress to make a scene - she could have chosen to wear it because she wanted to die as the guy's bride, for all you know.

You're assuming there was time for people to talk to her about committing suicide, or that people even knew.

You're making a huge assumption that she was capable of reasoned thought processes. She could very easily have lost her mind.

I'm not saying any of this is correct, but don't call out lonelynight on his/her assumptions when you did exactly the same thing.

I don't think that's very relevant to the assumptions ping-pong game.

Until you sit down and have a chat with this woman (so that you can actually put your training into effect) everything you've said is still presumptuous. Sure, you might have made logical assumptions based on data and trend analysis, but they're assumptions all the same. That's my point. Rather than critiscisng lonelynight for making assumptions and asserting your position as true, I think you should have employed some humility, tried to educate him about what normally happens, and assert your position as more likely.

You just went about it in a very "I'm right and you're wrong" way, even though you don't really know her circumstances.

That's all.

I don't think that's very relevant to the assumptions ping-pong game.

Until you sit down and have a chat with this woman (so that you can actually put your training into effect) everything you've said is still presumptuous. Sure, you might have made logical assumptions based on data and trend analysis, but they're assumptions all the same. That's my point. Rather than critiscisng lonelynight for making assumptions and asserting your position as true, I think you should have employed some humility, tried to educate him about what normally happens, and assert your position as more likely.

You just went about it in a very "I'm right and you're wrong" way, even though you don't really know her circumstances.

That's all.

raynimrod

1. I don't care what someone believes...so long as it is consistent.
If one believes that suicide is wrong...that everything should be done to prevent it, then that is fine I don't agree. But that is what makes life interesting (and something worth discussing).
What I do have a problem with is someone saying that they support a person's right to die...except in this case b/c they think the reason is trivial (that is a hypocritical and egotistical stance...both contradictory and imposing one's beliefs)

2. It is not my job to educate people off the clock.
It was a clear case of one's position being (almost certainly) right and one's position being (almost certainly) wrong.
These behaviors have a pretty specific pattern that they follow (documented over many years of study)

3. As I said to you earlier, nothing in life is ever 100% certain (not even if you talked to her).
All we have to go on is what is most likely the 'truth' (w/e that means). If you don't want to use that, then what is the point of asserting anything???

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

I don't think that's very relevant to the assumptions ping-pong game.

Until you sit down and have a chat with this woman (so that you can actually put your training into effect) everything you've said is still presumptuous. Sure, you might have made logical assumptions based on data and trend analysis, but they're assumptions all the same. That's my point. Rather than critiscisng lonelynight for making assumptions and asserting your position as true, I think you should have employed some humility, tried to educate him about what normally happens, and assert your position as more likely.

You just went about it in a very "I'm right and you're wrong" way, even though you don't really know her circumstances.

That's all.

rawsavon

1. I don't care what someone believes...so long as it is consistent.
If one believes that suicide is wrong...that everything should be done to prevent it, then that is fine I don't agree. But that is what makes life interesting (and something worth discussing).
What I do have a problem with is someone saying that they support a person's right to die...except in this case b/c they think the reason is trivial (that is a hypocritical and egotistical stance...both contradictory and imposing one's beliefs)

2. It is not my job to educate people off the clock.
It was a clear case of one's position being (almost certainly) right and one's position being (almost certainly) wrong.
These behaviors have a pretty specific pattern that they follow (documented over many years of study)

3. As I said to you earlier, nothing in life is ever 100% certain (not even if you talked to her).
All we have to go on is what is most likely the 'truth' (w/e that means). If you don't want to use that, then what is the point of asserting anything???

I think you completely misunderstood the point of my posts. Nevermind.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

I don't think that's very relevant to the assumptions ping-pong game.

Until you sit down and have a chat with this woman (so that you can actually put your training into effect) everything you've said is still presumptuous. Sure, you might have made logical assumptions based on data and trend analysis, but they're assumptions all the same. That's my point. Rather than critiscisng lonelynight for making assumptions and asserting your position as true, I think you should have employed some humility, tried to educate him about what normally happens, and assert your position as more likely.

You just went about it in a very "I'm right and you're wrong" way, even though you don't really know her circumstances.

That's all.

raynimrod

1. I don't care what someone believes...so long as it is consistent.
If one believes that suicide is wrong...that everything should be done to prevent it, then that is fine I don't agree. But that is what makes life interesting (and something worth discussing).
What I do have a problem with is someone saying that they support a person's right to die...except in this case b/c they think the reason is trivial (that is a hypocritical and egotistical stance...both contradictory and imposing one's beliefs)

2. It is not my job to educate people off the clock.
It was a clear case of one's position being (almost certainly) right and one's position being (almost certainly) wrong.
These behaviors have a pretty specific pattern that they follow (documented over many years of study)

3. As I said to you earlier, nothing in life is ever 100% certain (not even if you talked to her).
All we have to go on is what is most likely the 'truth' (w/e that means). If you don't want to use that, then what is the point of asserting anything???

I think you completely misunderstood the point of my posts. Nevermind.

I got exactly what you were saying...covered by the top line in point 2 and the top line in point 3

Man thats sad but awesome at the same time.

Maybe her and the guy that caught her will hook up?

Kcube

Poor girl. I'm glad she's alive.

entropyecho

Would it be better if I ended every post with this:

...the above post can only be verified to have an accuracy rating of 99%?

I got exactly what you were saying...covered by the top line in point 2 and the top line in point 3

rawsavon

You really didn't.

[QUOTE="entropyecho"]

Poor girl. I'm glad she's alive.

Darthkaiser

I believe if someone wants to die then just let them die.

Oh no! She's about to jump out the window!

*catches her by holding neck*

... *accidentally strangles her*

Aw man :(

On a more serious note, I think this is crazy, she's real stupid for doing that :roll:

[QUOTE="cain006"]

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] Yeah, I am sure that's why she did it. Committing suicide for the attention, cause she would be able to benefit from it heaps once she hit the ground...Chojuto

I worded it wrong, I meant she wanted her fiance to feel bad, so she made as big of a deal out of it as possible.

Why? Relationships end. Grow up and accept reality.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

Would it be better if I ended every post with this:

...the above post can only be verified to have an accuracy rating of 99%?

I got exactly what you were saying...covered by the top line in point 2 and the top line in point 3

raynimrod

You really didn't.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]...and now you are just contradicting your previous post. You said, and I quote, "I also support that people should be able to end their life as well" You say you support a person's right to die. You just think the reason here is stupid....so now all of a sudden you don't support it. That is a hypocritical stance, and worse than that...you are imposing your value system on a another person I already listed above why your assertions about suicidal people were 100% inaccurate. -that they are well thought out and planned (not something that is spur of the moment and not thought out) -this is evidenced by how she did the act (where and when show that she planned for this to be an event, what she wore shows she was sending a message...VERY much planned) Also, how do you know how long this has been going on...how many times she talked about it/thought about it/etc At the end of the day, there are 2 things wrong with your stance 1. It is a hypocritical stance -you support a right to die, but you think this reason is stupid (as stated by you earlier)...so now you don't support it 2. Related to the above point...You are still trying to impose your vales on someone else...this is wrongLonelynight

mr raw, it is selfish to force someone not to suicide, but do you think it is wrong? where do you draw the line between help and harm for the third party be it friends and fam or random observer? each case would be different but what general rule of thumb can you come up with?surrealnumber5

Mhmm :)

If you're trying to help, you'd stop the suicide

mr raw, it is selfish to force someone not to suicide, but do you think it is wrong? where do you draw the line between help and harm for the third party be it friends and fam or random observer? each case would be different but what general rule of thumb can you come up with?surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]mr raw, it is selfish to force someone not to suicide, but do you think it is wrong? where do you draw the line between help and harm for the third party be it friends and fam or random observer? each case would be different but what general rule of thumb can you come up with?rawsavon

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]mr raw, it is selfish to force someone not to suicide, but do you think it is wrong? where do you draw the line between help and harm for the third party be it friends and fam or random observer? each case would be different but what general rule of thumb can you come up with?surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] You talk to...but you do not interfere. Just as with any major life (or death in this case) decision, council should be accepted, expected, and sought after. But at the end of the day, one should be free to end their own life. They should be able to do it on their own terms (so long as it does not threaten or inconvenience others), and they should not have to go and do it in a secretive manner to 'try and get away with it'.rawsavon

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] You talk to...but you do not interfere. Just as with any major life (or death in this case) decision, council should be accepted, expected, and sought after. But at the end of the day, one should be free to end their own life. They should be able to do it on their own terms (so long as it does not threaten or inconvenience others), and they should not have to go and do it in a secretive manner to 'try and get away with it'.rawsavon

Should there be a legal punishment for people who physically interfere with someone that is, say, going to jump off of a cliff? (In a remote area as to not land on anyone or damage property).YellowOneKinobi

just giving the thread a little jolt my friend surrealnumber5

Man thats sad but awesome at the same time.

Maybe her and the guy that caught her will hook up?

Kcube

There is obviously a reason the wedding got called off ( Hint : She is ****ing psychotic ) . Would you or anyone in their right mind, first catch a crazy person trying to kill themselves and then hook up with them? She is a perfect example of the type of woman that a man should strive to stay the hell away from at all costs. Alter_Echo

OR she's the kind of woman who just needs help.

Perhaps the fiancee was just an absolute jerk. To have you life completely turned around like that is a really big deal. She would have spent months trying to organise that wedding to make it perfect for her and the fiancee as well as their families.. then all of a sudden, her future was crushed.

no more man of her dreams... yeah I'm sure she shoulda been real happy...

[QUOTE="Alter_Echo"] There is obviously a reason the wedding got called off ( Hint : She is ****ing psychotic ) . Would you or anyone in their right mind, first catch a crazy person trying to kill themselves and then hook up with them? She is a perfect example of the type of woman that a man should strive to stay the hell away from at all costs. porcelain_mai

OR she's the kind of woman who just needs help.

Perhaps the fiancee was just an absolute jerk. To have you life completely turned around like that is a really big deal. She would have spent months trying to organise that wedding to make it perfect for her and the fiancee as well as their families.. then all of a sudden, her future was crushed.

no more man of her dreams... yeah I'm sure she shoulda been real happy...

Maybe if she had simply killed herself in any of the million ways that do not involve public spectacle i would be more inclined to think of her as normal.

Dressing up and jumping out a window where you KNOW people will see you only serves as an attention grab or as emotional leverage to mind **** the dude that dumped her. All of these things are indicative of someone who's noodle is very very twisted.