[QUOTE="andyb1205"][QUOTE="diz360"]AndyB,You contradict yourself by saying there is no violence in the khoran, the quoting some! I can disount anything Bush says as he's a born again christian - not the sort of rational being I'd like to see in power in the USA.
Pascal's wager states that your view on following life for a test at the end is a bad decision. For example, if you believe in the wrong god, many religions would see that as a terrible sin, so you may be cast into "damnation" if they are right and you are wrong. If you live your life being a good person, then this "fabled" test at the end should see you though as you say, so what is the point in believing in any gods?
You may argue that our good behaviour is moddeled on the bible or khroan. I'd say that's crap, as societies in pre-christian eras had the same social constructs and morals that we see today.
There were problems before organised religion, but organised religion has solved none of them - in fact its made things worse!
You seem to encapsulate all christian and mohammadian views globally, but this is a falsehood. There are many conflicting varieties of christianity and of islam, so there is no general concensus between them. For example, some extreme catholics would disagree entirely with anglicans over the content of the bible and how its been interpreted.
I believe things that sound reasonanble. Bible stories sound entirely unreasonable and when I question them, I'm met with derision rather than proof.
I do know lots about the khoran, as I do continually question my own views and do compare them to religious doctrine. The khoran states that if you want to question your mohammadan religion, ask an imaam (religious leader). It goes on to say that you should not disuss your religious doubts with infidels. What more evidence of a self-perpetuating littany of lies do you need? Not to mention the outright oppression of women and the refusal to participate in democracy and fairness in preference to sharia (religious) law.
diz360
Oppression of woman? Are you kidding me?
Let's see. At the time of the Babylonians, if a Man murdered someone, his "wife" was to be the one punished.
In Greek time, woman were seen as a source of pleasure or entertainment. Before Islam came, the Arabs were sex beasts. Islam brought rights to woman, don't judge a religion based on its people. People are people, they're useless. Base a religion on its text (aka book).
Does Bible have its flaws? Yes. But it's still got some moral values.
Now..does the Koran have any flaws, contradictions, scientific errors, or anything that goes against humanity? No.
Do you know what an infidel is? An unbeliever. Do you know what the Koran verse was refering to when it said to "kill the infidels"? It was refering to a Pagan tribe that was harassing them, therefore were at war with them. Let's not generalize, of course they weren't supposed to discuss their religious doubts with those "pagans". lol.
In Sharia Law, there's some absurd stuff. But think about it. If someone raped your sister or mother, what would you do? You'd want to kill the motherf.... Now if someone raped someone else's woman, what would you say? You'd say the death penalty is ridiculous! Why double standards.
Btw, don't base opinions based on Imaams. Muslims should follow the Koran, respect the Prophets and those associated with them (family,etc).
You know why there's been war in the world? War is a clash of opinions. It can be religious, or political. But far more have died from political reasons. You think the Christians gave a crap about the Bible during the Crusades? It was used as a propaganda tool to gain back Jerusalem, and I think we all know who the nicest person was during Crusades, Saladin, he was a Muslim. While the Christians butchered every jew and muslim when they took the city, he did not.
Every religion has its moments. Right now Islam has its moments, but that's a different issue because honestly USA is the reason of this uprise. Settings up the Shah in Iran (brutal murderous dictator), backing up Saddham, that's a diff story.
When Islam ruled Spain, they didn't convert everyone. India was ruled by Muslims, but why isn't India mostly a Muslim-country today? The Jews "Golden Age" was when they were ruled by Muslims. Look, you can't judge a religion based on people. Back in those days Christianity would be the so called "terrorist", today it's Islam. Tomorrow it'll be something else.
Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, Zoroasterism, and probably some more that I missed all believe that there is One God "generally" (debatable for Christianity). Now why would they fight eachother if they believe in the same God? Political reasons...one side would use propaganda by pulling out small differences.
I think most of Gamespot can agree, from what I've seen, that without religion the world would not have been any better.
If most people followed the Islamic view of "if you do good deeds, you will be rewarded", would that be better than "do whatever you want but believe in Mr. Jesus"? Infact, most people, even if they're atheist, are really nice people. There's nice Christians, Muslims, whatever. Doesn't matter what religion you follow or if you follow one at all, it's about being a good person. But there's always bad people. With or without religion, there's always bad people. Get what I'm saying?
Of course islam is oppressive to women. Of course islamic script can be interpreted as violent. You have just quoted some, then drawn your own inference as to what it means. Other mohammadans would disagree with you. Its there in the khoran and plain to see for all. The reason why there are so many different islamic viewpoints is that there is so much room for interpretation.
Your "one god" statement is quite untrue. If you have a look at the BBC survey, you'll find that the idea of an intercahageable god is not a widely held belief, especially as you go further east.
Why don't you speak for yourself, rather than assuming that everyone agrees with you. Form reading the forums here, I'd say the majority don't believe in the religious hokum you spout. Why not just speak for your own views?
The "good deeds" view is part of rational moral society and existed a long time before islam or christianity started.
About Imaams, I was just reading from the khoran there. Would you ignore certain parts of it? According to the khoran, if you are a muslim, you are going against the word of the book in constructing a debate with me! If someone raped my wife, I'd want to see them punished to the fullest extent of the law. For me to rape him in revenge would be entirely unfitting in the society I choose to live in. I don't need religion to tell me that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'm amazed that you seem to know how I'd react and think.
History can show you lessons from the past so you don't repeat them, or it can foster ideas of vengance and hate. I think your post indicates you draw the latter option.
Dude, Islam brought more rights to Women than anything before it. You need to research more.
Where are these violent verses? Please read them out. There's none, if there are, bring them out, do it.
Muslim's (not mine, I'm not Muslim, I was agnostic, now a bit theist but I'll defend something no doubt if people misinterpret it) version of God is flawed? There's One God, according to them, and Mohammed is his "prophet". Worshipping Mohammed or any prophet is a sin.
On other hand, Christianity can't be monotheist because Jesus was not the Son of God and still people worship him or pray through him. You know who Richard Dawkins is? He's a wide-known biologist/evolutionist. He is a atheist, and he had a a Book and discussion (found on video on youtube) on God (of course he only mentioned Christianity since that is the main religion in U.S.) and lol the conclusion was that it's not even monotheist.
Btw he was on Fox owning Bill O'Reilly, who said that atheists are the biggest bane to society cause of Hitler (who wasn't atheist) and that einstein/stephen hawkings/and richard dawkin haven't found out the truth of how the universe began because the answer is only the Bible. LOL. (how is this guy on Fox???? dissing the smartest people from the past century)
Anyways, yah, in Islam, there is only One God. Jesus was a prophet, Mohammed was a prophet, and it says that besides the one's mentioned in the Koran, there have been 300 000 (number was in the hundred thousands, forgot correct number) of other prophets, and that every nation that has lived has had a prophet. That's more believable than Jesus is the only one and if you don't believe in him you go to Hell, meaning Abraham,etc were sitting in Hell til he came.
Man you got to know more of your damn history! Just cause they dress in Burqas (btw the Koran does not say to cover your face, actually your face and hands should be clearly exposed so that's culture issues aka oppression of women but it's cause of man not the koran).
At least put a good argument man. Btw are you atheist, Christian, or ognostic, or what?
Btw in Islam God can't do anything He wants, therefore we do have free will. He may know when your life will end but not what you will do it, otherwise He'd know if a newborn child will go to Hell or not LOL.
From Christian's point of view, before Christianity everyone went to Hell and Jesus is the savior. Oh...yah...COINCIDENTLY in your life-time Christianity is there to save you, yah ok there.
My belief is that perhaps God cannot alter the Universe after he made it, since it has to stay under the Laws of Science. Perhaps he must be outside the Universe itself, so that He is not constrained by these laws. I'm undecided on if Man came from Apes or from a pair (Adam&Eve) but we can't debate that because neither of them are facts. But.. the Earth being older than 6000 years is a fact.
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