Fear of anti-gun legislation makes gun sales go through the roof in Colorado

These posts should come complete with tinfoil hats :D

tenaka2

Why? Because I understand the fundamental idea of the 2nd Amendment? Do you love and trust the government that much?

I'm not sitting here trying to tear down the government or anything. I'm just saying why we have the 2nd Amendment. It was important to our founding fathers that our nation have the ability to defend itself from external and internal threats to the 1st amendment. Why wouldn't that hold true today?

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Ok, so guns are banned. He can't find any guns, so he uses the same bomb materials he rigged his apartment with, fills up a truck and drives it into the theater instead. Now we have a new Oklahoma bombing on our hands, because he wouldn't get guns... Gun control simply isn't the easy answer that you anti-gun people think it is... Inconsistancy

Homicide rates must be so high(or equally) in Canada, Japan, Norway... because they have more strict gun laws, so I guess people just, every day, go out and blow the crap out of everything with explosives instead. :roll:

Yes, it 'is' possible he would have, but it's also likely that the overall homicides per year would go down at the same time, resulting in an overall decrease in homicides even with a bombing.

Of course we have some cultural issues as well, but is our culture so bad that we'd certainly maintain our 3x higher homicide rate than Canada?

Yes, countries with less than half the population, half the cultural diversity, and half the land mass size (exluding canada, but 90% of their population lives on the border). Wow, an almost 100% all white nation of the same background can live together in peace? Who knew?

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Not totally, just put really harsh restrictions on selling guns, and you cannot legally carry one concealed.

Wasdie

They did ban gun in australia with very good results, why wouldn't it work in the U.S.?

The gun ban was backed up by a mandatory buy-back program that substantially reduced gun possession in Australia.

iReporter: 'AK-47 a weapon for war'

The effect was that both gun suicides and homicides (as well as total suicides and homicides) fell. Importantly, while there were 13 mass shootings in Australia during the period of 1979--96, there have been none in the sixteen years since.

In 1996, then-Prime Minister John Howard stated that the "whole scheme is designed to reduce the number of guns in the community and make Australia a safer place to live." The Australian attorney general praised the cooperation and responsibility of Australian firearms owners with the gun controls and buy-back, saying, "they have been paid cash for their firearms - giving our nation a welcome Christmas gift by removing unnecessary high-powered firearms from the community. It offers all of us the real chance of a safer festive season and New Year."

Opinion: Can we feel safe in a crowd anymore?

Of course, the Australian gun control law in 1997 enjoyed an extremely high level of public support and was not hampered by any domestic gun industry (since Australia did not have any).

Such would not be the case in the United States where pro-gun political views and NRA power create a very different climate. In the wake of another tragic massacre of innocent lives, we should look carefully at the Australian experience to see if the American public will ever rise up as one against gun violence.

It's pretty much apples and oranges. Australia isn't only an island (where trade can be monitored much more closely), it has less than a quarter of the population of the USA (only 22 million people), shares no land borders with any nation, it has no internal weapons manufacturing, and is far less diverse in culture than that of the USA (which is still a huge issue as cultures still don't get along like they should).

They could easily strip gun rights away in Australia. It doesn't and never did have the gun culture that the USA does. It had one, but that was really the minority of the nation. As you said, the people welcomed it in Australia. They wouldn't welcome it here.

Comparing the USA to Australia is absolutely pointless.

So what exactly makes the people in Aus different from the U.S.?

Americans like guns more? More interested in guns then in gun crime? People in the U.S. may welcome it more if it wasn't so tied up in politics and votes.

The result of less guns was as follows:

The effect was that both gun suicides and homicides (as well as total suicides and homicides) fell. Importantly, while there were 13 mass shootings in Australia during the period of 1979--96, there have been none in the sixteen years since.

Perhaps it has less to do with legislation and more to do with wanting to protect yourself from the crazies. A lot of innocent people would be saved if someone would of shot back.DaBrainz

Also a bad argument. The people in the theater were apparently law abiding citizens who follows the C&C laws of Colorado. They didn't bring their weapons into a place that forbids them.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]Almost they set the bar so high that the average person could not meet the standard. For example my father was a jeweler and had a CC for his biz. They upped the standard and took his gun away. If we didn't know the right people he would have never gotten a permit. The average person can't even have pepper spray in NYC a woman comming home at nigh it is scary. Only the crimminals have guns the regular people have a cell phone and can try to run. The crooks know this and rob people left and right often taking their money,cell phone and ID. The police can't keep up and it happens so often that all they do is have people file a report that remains unsolved.

noscope-ak47

Thank you for providing a perfect example of anecdotal bullsh*t.

Who said a joke? You don't know what anecdotal means do you?

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

These posts should come complete with tinfoil hats :D

Wasdie

Why? Because I understand the fundamental idea of the 2nd Amendment? Do you love and trust the government that much?

I'm not sitting here trying to tear down the government or anything. I'm just saying why we have the 2nd Amendment. It was important to our founding fathers that our nation have the ability to defend itself from external and internal threats to the 1st amendment. Why wouldn't that hold true today?

So what exactly makes the people in Aus different from the U.S.?

tenaka2

Are you blind of cultural differences? Completely blind of cultural backgrounds? Completely blind to diversity?

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Ok, so guns are banned. He can't find any guns, so he uses the same bomb materials he rigged his apartment with, fills up a truck and drives it into the theater instead. Now we have a new Oklahoma bombing on our hands, because he wouldn't get guns... Gun control simply isn't the easy answer that you anti-gun people think it is... Wasdie

Homicide rates must be so high(or equally) in Canada, Japan, Norway... because they have more strict gun laws, so I guess people just, every day, go out and blow the crap out of everything with explosives instead. :roll:

Yes, it 'is' possible he would have, but it's also likely that the overall homicides per year would go down at the same time, resulting in an overall decrease in homicides even with a bombing.

Of course we have some cultural issues as well, but is our culture so bad that we'd certainly maintain our 3x higher homicide rate than Canada?

Yes, countries with less than half the population, half the cultural diversity, and half the land mass size (exluding canada, but 90% of their population lives on the border). Wow, an almost 100% all white nation of the same background can live together in peace? Who knew?

How is that at all related to gun policy? Are you arguing that americans need guns because America is a diverse and volatile country?

If the government today wanted to take you out they could do it in minutes and your assault rifles or whatever else you have aren't going to do anything.

JML897

Nope, not with active duty military. The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the Army and Air Force from performing law enforcement on US soil. Navy and Marines are prohibited by a DoD directive.

It would have to be Nat'l Guard at a state level. The Coast Guard does have maritime law enforcement.

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]Perhaps it has less to do with legislation and more to do with wanting to protect yourself from the crazies. A lot of innocent people would be saved if someone would of shot back.Wasdie

Also a bad argument. The people in the theater were apparently law abiding citizens who follows the C&C laws of Colorado. They didn't bring their weapons into a place that forbids them.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

Homicide rates must be so high(or equally) in Canada, Japan, Norway... because they have more strict gun laws, so I guess people just, every day, go out and blow the crap out of everything with explosives instead. :roll:

Yes, it 'is' possible he would have, but it's also likely that the overall homicides per year would go down at the same time, resulting in an overall decrease in homicides even with a bombing.

Of course we have some cultural issues as well, but is our culture so bad that we'd certainly maintain our 3x higher homicide rate than Canada?

MlauTheDaft

Yes, countries with less than half the population, half the cultural diversity, and half the land mass size (exluding canada, but 90% of their population lives on the border). Wow, an almost 100% all white nation of the same background can live together in peace? Who knew?

How is that at all related to gun policy? Are you arguing that americans need guns because America is a diverse and volatile country?

I'm saying that all of these things, paired with 200+ years of gun culture, have led to present day Americans having a much different view of firearms than others. All of those are a factor.

I'm arguing that our culture is different and has been for hundreds of years. We can't just adapt the policies of other nations and expect the same results.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

So what exactly makes the people in Aus different from the U.S.?

Wasdie

Are you blind of cultural differences? Completely blind of cultural backgrounds? Completely blind to diversity?

You could have just shared your wisdom:?

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Thank you for providing a perfect example of anecdotal bullsh*t.

tenaka2

Who said a joke? You don't know what anecdotal means do you?

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Ok, so guns are banned. He can't find any guns, so he uses the same bomb materials he rigged his apartment with, fills up a truck and drives it into the theater instead. Now we have a new Oklahoma bombing on our hands, because he wouldn't get guns... Gun control simply isn't the easy answer that you anti-gun people think it is... Wasdie

Homicide rates must be so high(or equally) in Canada, Japan, Norway... because they have more strict gun laws, so I guess people just, every day, go out and blow the crap out of everything with explosives instead. :roll:

Yes, it 'is' possible he would have, but it's also likely that the overall homicides per year would go down at the same time, resulting in an overall decrease in homicides even with a bombing.

Of course we have some cultural issues as well, but is our culture so bad that we'd certainly maintain our 3x higher homicide rate than Canada?

Yes, countries with less than half the population, half the cultural diversity, and half the land mass size (exluding canada, but 90% of their population lives on the border). Wow, an almost 100% all white nation of the same background can live together in peace? Who knew?

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]Perhaps it has less to do with legislation and more to do with wanting to protect yourself from the crazies. A lot of innocent people would be saved if someone would of shot back.DaBrainz

Also a bad argument. The people in the theater were apparently law abiding citizens who follows the C&C laws of Colorado. They didn't bring their weapons into a place that forbids them.

I think if an owner does not want people to bring firearms onto their propriety, it's their right to deny people who are carrying firarms onto their property. Rights work both ways.

I'm saying that all of these things, paired with 200+ years of gun culture, have led to present day Americans having a much different view of firearms than others. All of those are a factor.

I'm arguing that our culture is different and has been for hundreds of years. We can't just adapt the policies of other nations and expect the same results.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]Perhaps it has less to do with legislation and more to do with wanting to protect yourself from the crazies. A lot of innocent people would be saved if someone would of shot back.DaBrainz

Also a bad argument. The people in the theater were apparently law abiding citizens who follows the C&C laws of Colorado. They didn't bring their weapons into a place that forbids them.

Or not have any federal restrictions but rather let the states (or let the states let the local counties) decide their policies regarding gun rights and gun control.

For example, some local communities in the south are huge gun activists but there aren't any crime sprees at all where as other states have a high crime rate so they may want to curtail gun sales.

Even though I don't agree with gun control, I don't think the federal government should take a position on this matter and instead let the local and state legislators decide the policy.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

So what exactly makes the people in Aus different from the U.S.?

Wasdie

Are you blind of cultural differences? Completely blind of cultural backgrounds? Completely blind to diversity?

No, but it would appear that other people may be.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-11-17/australia-second-most-multicultural-country/2339884

It says Australia is the second most multicultural nation in the world, tied with Switzerland behind table-leader Luxembourg.

The report says skilled migrants account for 62 per cent of arrivals.

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Yes, countries with less than half the population, half the cultural diversity, and half the land mass size (exluding canada, but 90% of their population lives on the border). Wow, an almost 100% all white nation of the same background can live together in peace? Who knew?

Wasdie

How is that at all related to gun policy? Are you arguing that americans need guns because America is a diverse and volatile country?

I'm saying that all of these things, paired with 200+ years of gun culture, have led to present day Americans having a much different view of firearms than others. All of those are a factor.

I'm arguing that our culture is different and has been for hundreds of years. We can't just adapt the policies of other nations and expect the same results.

Rome certainly was'nt built in one day, but that's hardly an argument for lenient gun legislation.

Noone expects a complete ban, but incremental restrictionscould be done.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I'm saying that all of these things, paired with 200+ years of gun culture, have led to present day Americans having a much different view of firearms than others. All of those are a factor.

I'm arguing that our culture is different and has been for hundreds of years. We can't just adapt the policies of other nations and expect the same results.

Inconsistancy

Works well in NYC nobody get shot there uh that is not right. Uh works well in cal uh no,works well in damn where does it work ??

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I'm saying that all of these things, paired with 200+ years of gun culture, have led to present day Americans having a much different view of firearms than others. All of those are a factor.

I'm arguing that our culture is different and has been for hundreds of years. We can't just adapt the policies of other nations and expect the same results.

noscope-ak47

Works well in NYC nobody get shot there uh that is not right. Uh works well in cal uh no,works well in damn where does it work ??

It's amazing how you usually don't get shot if you don't fight back.

If only one could sign some sort of insurance.....

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Also a bad argument. The people in the theater were apparently law abiding citizens who follows the C&C laws of Colorado. They didn't bring their weapons into a place that forbids them.

Wasdie

I think if an owner does not want people to bring firearms onto their propriety, it's their right to deny people who are carrying firarms onto their property. Rights work both ways.

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"] Just do nothing, let's make sure nothing changes, ever. We need to start working on changing our stupid culture.MlauTheDaft

Works well in NYC nobody get shot there uh that is not right. Uh works well in cal uh no,works well in damn where does it work ??

It's amazing how you usually don't get shot if you don't fight back.

If only one could sign some sort of insurance.....

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"] Which is why the rules need to be loosened. We need federal open carry rights.DaBrainz

I think if an owner does not want people to bring firearms onto their propriety, it's their right to deny people who are carrying firarms onto their property. Rights work both ways.

This has been nagging at me a bit. How did he even get firearms into the theatre?

Here, you can literally get fined for carrying a multi-tool, if it has a knife over a certain length. Are you seriously allowed to carry guns in cinemas, malls and restaurants?

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]So taking guns away from normal people and leaving guns in the hands of criminals is the answer huh??

Works well in NYC nobody get shot there uh that is not right. Uh works well in cal uh no,works well in damn where does it work ??

noscope-ak47

It's amazing how you usually don't get shot if you don't fight back.

If only one could sign some sort of insurance.....

Uhm, yes? Life is sacred, is'nt it? Do you really want to shoot somebody over 50 bucks in your wallet?

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I think if an owner does not want people to bring firearms onto their propriety, it's their right to deny people who are carrying firarms onto their property. Rights work both ways.

MlauTheDaft

This has been nagging at me a bit. How did he even get firearms into the theatre?

Here, you can literally get fined for carrying a multi-tool, if it has a knife over a certain length. Are you seriously allowed to carry guns in cinemas, malls and restaurants?

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I'm saying that all of these things, paired with 200+ years of gun culture, have led to present day Americans having a much different view of firearms than others. All of those are a factor.

I'm arguing that our culture is different and has been for hundreds of years. We can't just adapt the policies of other nations and expect the same results.

noscope-ak47

Works well in NYC nobody get shot there uh that is not right. Uh works well in cal uh no,works well in damn where does it work ??

----

More guns == more safe, yup yup yup.

So getting robbed is ok as long as you don't get shot huh ??noscope-ak47

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I'm saying that all of these things, paired with 200+ years of gun culture, have led to present day Americans having a much different view of firearms than others. All of those are a factor.

I'm arguing that our culture is different and has been for hundreds of years. We can't just adapt the policies of other nations and expect the same results.

noscope-ak47

Works well in NYC nobody get shot there uh that is not right. Uh works well in cal uh no,works well in damn where does it work ??

To be fair you are a total gun nut so your opinion isn't very balanced, didnt you posts a pick claiming you owned 30 guns or so?

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

It's amazing how you usually don't get shot if you don't fight back.

If only one could sign some sort of insurance.....

MlauTheDaft

Uhm, yes? Life is sacred, is'nt it? Do you really want to shoot somebody over 50 bucks in your wallet?

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"] Just do nothing, let's make sure nothing changes, ever. We need to start working on changing our stupid culture.tenaka2

Works well in NYC nobody get shot there uh that is not right. Uh works well in cal uh no,works well in damn where does it work ??

To be fair you are a total gun nut so your opinion isn't very balanced, didnt you posts a pick claiming you owned 30 guns or so?

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]So getting robbed is ok as long as you don't get shot huh ??

noscope-ak47

Uhm, yes? Life is sacred, is'nt it? Do you really want to shoot somebody over 50 bucks in your wallet?

Being raped is still better than being killed.... Or than killing someone for that matter...

Great, more people in my state with guns. I'm actually not against gun ownership, but considering how the average dumbsass drives, I sure as hell don't trust them with a firearm.

I'm gonna start a new conspiracy theory; the NRA is brainwashing people to shoot others to spark debate about gun laws and encourage gun sales as a result.

*minds blown of non-thinkers*

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]So taking guns away from normal people and leaving guns in the hands of criminals is the answer huh??

Works well in NYC nobody get shot there uh that is not right. Uh works well in cal uh no,works well in damn where does it work ??

noscope-ak47

To be fair you are a total gun nut so your opinion isn't very balanced, didnt you posts a pick claiming you owned 30 guns or so?

Well this is the pic you posted, cant relaly call this impartial lol

Great, more people in my state with guns. I'm actually not against gun ownership, but considering how the average dumbsass drives, I sure as hell don't trust them with a firearm.

dagreenfish

[QUOTE="dagreenfish"]

Great, more people in my state with guns. I'm actually not against gun ownership, but considering how the average dumbsass drives, I sure as hell don't trust them with a firearm.

noscope-ak47

I could get behind that. The more training one has with their weapon, hopefully the more responsible they'd be.

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

Uhm, yes? Life is sacred, is'nt it? Do you really want to shoot somebody over 50 bucks in your wallet?

MlauTheDaft

Being raped is still better than being killed.... Or than killing someone for that matter...

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

To be fair you are a total gun nut so your opinion isn't very balanced, didnt you posts a pick claiming you owned 30 guns or so?

tenaka2

Well this is the pic you posted, cant relaly call this impartial lol

I think everyone should have the right to bear arms and purchase weapons. That is, after extensive and expensive background checks, both into criminal past and psychological stability.

I'm sure there are millions of people out there who own guns who wouldn't ever use the to harm another person. Good for them. There are also criminals out there who can get guns legally in some areas because the restrictions are too lax.

We won't be able to stop every nut who wants to go on a rampage, but many places are making it way to easy.

jimkabrhel

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="dagreenfish"]

Great, more people in my state with guns. I'm actually not against gun ownership, but considering how the average dumbsass drives, I sure as hell don't trust them with a firearm.

dagreenfish

I could get behind that. The more training one has with their weapon, hopefully the more responsible they'd be.

How would any modern society allow a single person to own so many weapons? How is there not some sort of stringent law whereby you must have your automatic weapons in a safe somewhere and not, say, by your desktop computer.chrisrooR

Common sense would dictate that. Dumbass could be robbe easily.

Also, none of those are automatic if they are all legal. It's still illegal to have a fully automatic weapon without a proper license (which is extremely difficult and expensive to get).

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]

How would any modern society allow a single person to own so many weapons? How is there not some sort of stringent law whereby you must have your automatic weapons in a safe somewhere and not, say, by your desktop computer.Wasdie

Common sense would dictate that. Dumbass could be robbe easily.

Also, none of those are automatic if they are all legal. It's still illegal to have a fully automatic weapon without a proper license (which is extremely difficult and expensive to get).

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]

How would any modern society allow a single person to own so many weapons? How is there not some sort of stringent law whereby you must have your automatic weapons in a safe somewhere and not, say, by your desktop computer.Inconsistancy

Common sense would dictate that. Dumbass could be robbe easily.

Also, none of those are automatic if they are all legal. It's still illegal to have a fully automatic weapon without a proper license (which is extremely difficult and expensive to get).

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]You can just as easy get shot for only having 20 or 30 bucks it depends on luck. Not fighting back is smart but it does not mean your out of danger. If your a woman and the scum tries to rape you would not fighting back be ok.

noscope-ak47

Being raped is still better than being killed.... Or than killing someone for that matter...

I'm sure every single rape victim in the world appreciates your kindness, in evaluating their lives.

Might as well send all rape victims straight to death row, right?

Right?

Perhaps it has less to do with legislation and more to do with wanting to protect yourself from the crazies. A lot of innocent people would be saved if someone would of shot back.DaBrainz

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]Perhaps it has less to do with legislation and more to do with wanting to protect yourself from the crazies. A lot of innocent people would be saved if someone would of shot back.SAGE_OF_FIRE