for the first time I completely disagree with you Mr. Obama

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"] interestingly enough so does screwing up the earth to begin withJfisch93

But...but...we need the oils! Or we might have to change!

What about electric? Wind? Nuclear? Hydrogen fuel cell? They're all there and ready to give us energy, except for hydrogen fuel cell.

We don't need to completely change to one source of energy; that would be wrong. But we need to do a better job using all the sources we have. Look at European countries, and even Canada, for example. They aren't having a problem using different sources of energy.

Alternative sources are right in front of us. It's just when we actually decide to start using them more often..

[QUOTE="Jfisch93"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

But...but...we need the oils! Or we might have to change!

taj7575

What about electric? Wind? Nuclear? Hydrogen fuel cell? They're all there and ready to give us energy, except for hydrogen fuel cell.

We don't need to completely change to one source of energy; that would be wrong. But we need to do a better job using all the sources we have. Look at European countries, and even Canada, for example. They aren't having a problem using different sources of energy.

Alternative sources are right in front of us. It's just when we actually decide to start using them more often..

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

[QUOTE="Jfisch93"]Do you not get that it will take YEARS to even start to convert to an alternate energy source? Science has not even found a substance that is better and more available than oil. You cannot simply go "Oh I think the whole country should ditch oil and switch to something else." and have it just happen. We probably still have hundreds of years of oil left untapped because the government won't let us drill on our own land.

Serraph105

What about electric? Wind? Nuclear? Hydrogen fuel cell? They're all there and ready to give us energy, except for hydrogen fuel cell.

We don't need to completely change to one source of energy; that would be wrong. But we need to do a better job using all the sources we have. Look at European countries, and even Canada, for example. They aren't having a problem using different sources of energy.

Alternative sources are right in front of us. It's just when we actually decide to start using them more often..

In the mean time I don't find a problem with making the transition as smooth as possible by keeping the costs of energy lower which would to some extent occur by drilling off-shore.

OK, for one thing, offshore drilling and destroying the environment do not go hand in hand. Would you rather we keep sending Millions to the middle east to power our cars? And for another thing, Obama has no intention of actually doing any drilling. He is just looking into the possibility, but he has given himself plenty of ways to get out of it later.iamdanthaman

Well hell...it's as good of time as any to trot this bad boy out.

In the grand tradition of Admiral Ackbar...IT'S A TRAP! Watch the Republican Leadership refuse to outright endorse this. They'll say it's "a positive sign" or "a step in the right direction" but stop short of actually thanking him for doing something that they've wanted for years. My guess? This is another way for Obama to paint Republicans as being obstructionists/party of no.nocoolnamejim

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Well hell...it's as good of time as any to trot this bad boy out.

In the grand tradition of Admiral Ackbar...IT'S A TRAP! Watch the Republican Leadership refuse to outright endorse this. They'll say it's "a positive sign" or "a step in the right direction" but stop short of actually thanking him for doing something that they've wanted for years. My guess? This is another way for Obama to paint Republicans as being obstructionists/party of no.TBoogy

[QUOTE="TBoogy"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Well hell...it's as good of time as any to trot this bad boy out.

In the grand tradition of Admiral Ackbar...IT'S A TRAP! Watch the Republican Leadership refuse to outright endorse this. They'll say it's "a positive sign" or "a step in the right direction" but stop short of actually thanking him for doing something that they've wanted for years. My guess? This is another way for Obama to paint Republicans as being obstructionists/party of no.Serraph105

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

[QUOTE="TBoogy"] Agreed. I mean, he already passed the republican health care bill, only to have no republicans vote for it.

TBoogy

I am glad he is doing this.

Are you kidding me? It's the ONLY thing I've agree'd with him on so far...

[QUOTE="TBoogy"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"] if it fails and it manages to paint republicans as even bigger obstructionists than they have made themselves out to be that the man is a genius.

Serraph105

OK, for one thing, offshore drilling and destroying the environment do not go hand in hand. Would you rather we keep sending Millions to the middle east to power our cars? And for another thing, Obama has no intention of actually doing any drilling. He is just looking into the possibility, but he has given himself plenty of ways to get out of it later.iamdanthaman

If we drilled every source of oil in the U.S. we would have enough crude to last us two years at current consumption.

Our oil is not as high quality as the stuff in the middle east. It takes more work to refine it, meaning higher cost.

We won't start to see this oil for another 10-20 years.

Multi-national companies drill the oil, refine the oil, and sell the oil. They're not going to stop buying from the Middle East and, if there is any saving at all, there's no garuntee they'll pass the savings on to us.

Basically, this is maximum harm to the environment and minimal gain financially, if any at all. This isn't going to cut our dependence on foreign oil, it won't do much to curb it if anything, and within two years we'll be right back to where we started. Meanwhile, if we cut the restrictions on the hemp industry and switched all the cars on the road to hemp ethanol we could have a cheap, bio-friendly, and completely renewable resource for fuel that would completely eliminate our dependence on foreign oil forever once it was initialized, and we wouldn't have to ruin our natural environments to get the fuel like we'll do with oil drilling.

As for the political part, I'm both worried and angry as a (unofficial) Democrat. I'm angry because I feel like Obama is going back on all his promises to liberals, and for what? Is he garnering Republican support? Probably not, they've been unanimously against him on everything he does even if he does give in to some of their demands. Is he going to win over Republican voters? Again, I highly doubt it. And yet he's alienating the people who put him into office, I think just so he can fashion himself politically as a moderate. Where's that going to get him? Nowhere. I'm not saying he should go all the way to the let, but he has let the vast majority of Democratic voters down by backtracking on things he promised during the campaign, I think it's total crap.

That also has me worried because he could lose an election based on that. As much as I disagree with what he's doing, I would much rather have him than any Republican candidate they're fielding right now. What I'd really love is to see a third party win, someone like Ralph Nader, but I doubt that's going to happen. The Republicans showed us that you can't pander exclusively to your base, but you can't ignore them either. Obama, show the base some love and respect and start listening to what we have to say.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="taj7575"]

What about electric? Wind? Nuclear? Hydrogen fuel cell? They're all there and ready to give us energy, except for hydrogen fuel cell.

We don't need to completely change to one source of energy; that would be wrong. But we need to do a better job using all the sources we have. Look at European countries, and even Canada, for example. They aren't having a problem using different sources of energy.

Alternative sources are right in front of us. It's just when we actually decide to start using them more often..

coolbeans90

In the mean time I don't find a problem with making the transition as smooth as possible by keeping the costs of energy lower which would to some extent occur by drilling off-shore.

No it wouldn't. By the time we would actually start to see any American oil in a commercial form we could have an entirely new energy structure up and running.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"] yeah I don't get this whole mentality of "We all need to switch to a single thing." Why can't it be many? Because it's less convenient? That's no excuse.theone86

In the mean time I don't find a problem with making the transition as smooth as possible by keeping the costs of energy lower which would to some extent occur by drilling off-shore.

No it wouldn't. By the time we would actually start to see any American oil in a commercial form we could have an entirely new energy structure up and running.

Oil consumption won't have by any means completely diminished by then, even if automobiles no longer use it.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

In the mean time I don't find a problem with making the transition as smooth as possible by keeping the costs of energy lower which would to some extent occur by drilling off-shore.

coolbeans90

No it wouldn't. By the time we would actually start to see any American oil in a commercial form we could have an entirely new energy structure up and running.

Oil consumption won't have by any means completely diminished by then, even if automobiles no longer use it.

If we built a new infastructure it could be extremely diminished, even more so if we switch to hemp ethanol. And if we do nothing to dial down consumption by the time we can acutally buy that oil it will still last us only two years, even less considering he only opened drilling off the east coast and that two years number is for ALL the oil in ALL of America if we tapped the entire country dry.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

In the mean time I don't find a problem with making the transition as smooth as possible by keeping the costs of energy lower which would to some extent occur by drilling off-shore.

coolbeans90

No it wouldn't. By the time we would actually start to see any American oil in a commercial form we could have an entirely new energy structure up and running.

Oil consumption won't have by any means completely diminished by then, even if automobiles no longer use it.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

No it wouldn't. By the time we would actually start to see any American oil in a commercial form we could have an entirely new energy structure up and running.

theone86

Oil consumption won't have by any means completely diminished by then, even if automobiles no longer use it.

If we built a new infastructure it could be extremely diminished, even more so if we switch to hemp ethanol. And if we do nothing to dial down consumption by the time we can acutally buy that oil it will still last us only two years, even less considering he only opened drilling off the east coast and that two years number is for ALL the oil in ALL of America if we tapped the entire country dry.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Oil consumption won't have by any means completely diminished by then, even if automobiles no longer use it.

Serraph105

If we built a new infastructure it could be extremely diminished, even more so if we switch to hemp ethanol. And if we do nothing to dial down consumption by the time we can acutally buy that oil it will still last us only two years, even less considering he only opened drilling off the east coast and that two years number is for ALL the oil in ALL of America if we tapped the entire country dry.

What's even sadder is the entire world has less than a century's supply left at current consumption, if we don't find an alternative source within 50 years we'll start to lose the ability to provide transportation and energy within the next generation.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

No it wouldn't. By the time we would actually start to see any American oil in a commercial form we could have an entirely new energy structure up and running.

theone86

Oil consumption won't have by any means completely diminished by then, even if automobiles no longer use it.

If we built a new infastructure it could be extremely diminished, even more so if we switch to hemp ethanol. And if we do nothing to dial down consumption by the time we can acutally buy that oil it will still last us only two years, even less considering he only opened drilling off the east coast and that two years number is for ALL the oil in ALL of America if we tapped the entire country dry.

It could be greatly diminished, but it isn't going completely away for a long time regardless. Developing infrastructure for alternative forms of energy should significantly drive down the demand for oil, but for the time being I support utilizing existing oil sources. You make a good point though, he did only authorize drilling on the east coast. However, I think that it's a step in the right direction and hopefully he'll open more areas for drilling.

I'm ok with drilling as long as they do it in an eco friendly way.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Oil consumption won't have by any means completely diminished by then, even if automobiles no longer use it.

coolbeans90

If we built a new infastructure it could be extremely diminished, even more so if we switch to hemp ethanol. And if we do nothing to dial down consumption by the time we can acutally buy that oil it will still last us only two years, even less considering he only opened drilling off the east coast and that two years number is for ALL the oil in ALL of America if we tapped the entire country dry.

It could be greatly diminished, but it isn't going completely away for a long time regardless. Developing infrastructure for alternative forms of energy should significantly drive down the demand for oil, but for the time being I support utilizing existing oil sources. You make a good point though, he did only authorize drilling on the east coast. However, I think that it's a step in the right direction and hopefully he'll open more areas for drilling.

Regardless, it's not going to drive down costs significantly. It won't even be available on the market for ten years, by that time we could have implemented solar, wind, and nuclear power as the cornerstone of our nation's energy and have built an infastructure for hemp ethanol, or in other words in the time it takes for oil companies to drill, refine, and sell the oil to supposedly free us from foreign oil we could have diminished our use of foreign oil by exponentially more than drilling could ever hope to. We're not going to wake up tomorrow and have this oil available for use.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="theone86"]

If we built a new infastructure it could be extremely diminished, even more so if we switch to hemp ethanol. And if we do nothing to dial down consumption by the time we can acutally buy that oil it will still last us only two years, even less considering he only opened drilling off the east coast and that two years number is for ALL the oil in ALL of America if we tapped the entire country dry.

theone86

What's even sadder is the entire world has less than a century's supply left at current consumption, if we don't find an alternative source within 50 years we'll start to lose the ability to provide transportation and energy within the next generation.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"] kinda sad isn't it?Serraph105

What's even sadder is the entire world has less than a century's supply left at current consumption, if we don't find an alternative source within 50 years we'll start to lose the ability to provide transportation and energy within the next generation.

Not just inconvienent, unprofitable for established corporations. To think we could be using all hemp fuel right now if we had just listened to Henry Ford back in the day.

I have been disagreeing with him for awhile......

[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="theone86"]

What's even sadder is the entire world has less than a century's supply left at current consumption, if we don't find an alternative source within 50 years we'll start to lose the ability to provide transportation and energy within the next generation.

theone86

Not just inconvienent, unprofitable for established corporations. To think we could be using all hemp fuel right now if we had just listened to Henry Ford back in the day.

I have been disagreeing with him for awhile......

TheMightyHoov

[QUOTE="TheMightyHoov"]

I have been disagreeing with him for awhile......

Serraph105

I cant say I like this all that much either. So I guess I am "that"person :D

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

If we built a new infastructure it could be extremely diminished, even more so if we switch to hemp ethanol. And if we do nothing to dial down consumption by the time we can acutally buy that oil it will still last us only two years, even less considering he only opened drilling off the east coast and that two years number is for ALL the oil in ALL of America if we tapped the entire country dry.

theone86

It could be greatly diminished, but it isn't going completely away for a long time regardless. Developing infrastructure for alternative forms of energy should significantly drive down the demand for oil, but for the time being I support utilizing existing oil sources. You make a good point though, he did only authorize drilling on the east coast. However, I think that it's a step in the right direction and hopefully he'll open more areas for drilling.

Regardless, it's not going to drive down costs significantly. It won't even be available on the market for ten years, by that time we could have implemented solar, wind, and nuclear power as the cornerstone of our nation's energy and have built an infastructure for hemp ethanol, or in other words in the time it takes for oil companies to drill, refine, and sell the oil to supposedly free us from foreign oil we could have diminished our use of foreign oil by exponentially more than drilling could ever hope to. We're not going to wake up tomorrow and have this oil available for use.

Both obviously are going to reduce dependence on foreign oil. I never made the claim that this oil would be available in the near future. That said, I very highly doubt that a complete energy infrastructure overhaul will occur before oil is utilized from offshore sources. It would be better to take both approaches.

Maximum Harm huh? well then I guess you're lucky that Obama won't ever actually drill. Also to the guy who said he was offended by the Middle east comment, seriously? Does your Mom own a middle eastern oil field? I never said that we got most of our oil from the middle east, how did you jump to that conclusion. Drilling for our own oil will never make us independent of all foreign oil sources. but it could eliminate some of them. iamdanthaman

And for the first time I actually agree with Mr. Obama :?

I'm not a very big environmentalist, nor do I know much about the topic of energy, but I don't see what's so bad about making use of some of our own, domestic fossil fuels while we transition to a more green economy. I'd rather do that than give money to Saudi royalty. -Sun_Tzu-

I'm not a very big environmentalist, nor do I know much about the topic of energy, but I don't see what's so bad about making use of some of our own, domestic fossil fuels while we transition to a more green economy. I'd rather do that than give money to Saudi royalty. -Sun_Tzu-

Exactly. You put my own opinion down more eloquently than I could myself.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I'm not a very big environmentalist, nor do I know much about the topic of energy, but I don't see what's so bad about making use of some of our own, domestic fossil fuels while we transition to a more green economy. I'd rather do that than give money to Saudi royalty. SaudiFury

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I'm not a very big environmentalist, nor do I know much about the topic of energy, but I don't see what's so bad about making use of some of our own, domestic fossil fuels while we transition to a more green economy. I'd rather do that than give money to Saudi royalty. -Sun_Tzu-