Gaza looks like a concentration camp

Yes it does, just look at the maps, little by little gaza will be wiped off the map, the jews will get their "promised" land, but what the hell are they gonna do when god tells them "so, you thought it was ok to commit genocide, because you thought it was ok to kill for this land? where the hell did i write that?"

Question: does the Jewish religion teach things like, "murder is ok if you are better than the victim?" really, its hard to understand how a religious folk like the Jews believe in what they believe in. What kind of almighty god of good would lead these people to believe that killing is "ok"?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]See here is where the problem is with your links and discussion. We were never discussing whether the supplies were sufficient. I said humanitarian aid was still being allowed into the strip....whereas your stance was no it wasn't. Your links backed up my statement...then you sw tched gears and changed arguments...meaning you agreed with my statement. At no time did I quantify how much aid went in...only that contrary to your statement humanitarian aid had not been totally cut. As for Hamas...well after another user stated no rocket attacks continued after the treaty I gave him a list. It was a simple as that. He was incorrect since at no time did the attacks cease....no matter who was doing the attacking. You jumped in and said Hamas had nothing to do with that thus I showed you Hamas' self description of their job vis a vis the treaty. Meaning they were responsible for stopping the attacks which they obviously failed to do. Simple. The link I provided was merely to remove the false assertion that Hamas had no responsibility which I successfully did. My link held up my statement against yours. Your statement was one of no responsibility for Hamas in these attacks. According to Hamas that is false. Any reputable news source will tell you neither side abided 100% by the agreement though...;)Vandalvideo

I have never disappeared from any discussion EVER. My mother is very ill in the hospital and I get to visit her work permitting a maximum of three hours a day for one hour at a time. Sorry if you feel hurt because she is a priority.

Second I stated that humanitarian aid was allowed by Israel and you flat out denied it. Until I posted a link. Then you fell back on the but it's not enough. So? Guess what...war is not pretty. I feel bad for the children but not the adults that want a terrorist organization (as most of the world sees Hamas) as their government. You get what you asked for....you get the consequences.

Most of the links your provided said the exact same thing I said. They were pointless. Nothing you have posted has contradicted anything I have stated. You are arguing against yourself if you but knew it.

So your argument comes down to this. Israel cut some food supplies. Hamas is innocent. Uh....I'm guessing your ethnicity keeps yor firmly biased in this discusion since I have yet to see you say anything against what Hamas has been doing to the people it governs. They have been embroiled in war with other Palestinians. They have gone on record as wanting to be rid of another country. They have ties to Iran and many militant groups with the same agenda. They have targeted Israelis citizens and they make no apologies for that. So I'd say the two factions are rather even here and war being war will contiunue to kill each other.

[QUOTE="gla300"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] What about Israel? Is Israel not trying to defend their land? Is their only intention spilling the blood of every Palestinian that moves?-Sun_Tzu-

And while Israel committed some vile acts while fighting for their independent nation, what actually occurred during that time period in reference to how Israel treated the Palestinians is still up to much debate by historians.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="gla300"] Its not their country in the first place, they started to come to Palestine in 1923 as an immigrates but in 1948 with the help of the British they captured all the villages and killed everyone, dude go and study the real history and stop watching Fox news, CBS...etc because most of them are owned by Zionists. Taking other people land is called "Invading".gla300

And while Israel committed some vile acts while fighting for their independent nation, what actually occurred during that time period in reference to how Israel treated the Palestinians is still up to much debate by historians.

Yes it does, just look at the maps, little by little gaza will be wiped off the map, the jews will get their "promised" land, but what the hell are they gonna do when god tells them "so, you thought it was ok to commit genocide, because you thought it was ok to kill for this land? where the hell did i write that?"

Question: does the Jewish religion teach things like, "murder is ok if you are better than the victim?" really, its hard to understand how a religious folk like the Jews believe in what they believe in. What kind of almighty god of good would lead these people to believe that killing is "ok"?

[QUOTE="gla300"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] You don't have to educate me about the history of that land. I know the history. But the debate over which demographic is the rightful owner of said land is irrelevant and a moot point. Israel isn't going anywhere, and right now it is Israel's land, and Israel is trying to defend their land.

And while Israel committed some vile acts while fighting for their independent nation, what actually occurred during that time period in reference to how Israel treated the Palestinians is still up to much debate by historians.

LJS9502_basic

Dude you reach the end ?

start from the EVENTS section -.-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="gla300"] Its not their country in the first place, they started to come to Palestine in 1923 as an immigrates but in 1948 with the help of the British they captured all the villages and killed everyone, dude go and study the real history and stop watching Fox news, CBS...etc because most of them are owned by Zionists. Taking other people land is called "Invading".gla300

And while Israel committed some vile acts while fighting for their independent nation, what actually occurred during that time period in reference to how Israel treated the Palestinians is still up to much debate by historians.

Yes it does, just look at the maps, little by little gaza will be wiped off the map, the jews will get their "promised" land, but what the hell are they gonna do when god tells them "so, you thought it was ok to commit genocide, because you thought it was ok to kill for this land? where the hell did i write that?"

Question: does the Jewish religion teach things like, "murder is ok if you are better than the victim?" really, its hard to understand how a religious folk like the Jews believe in what they believe in. What kind of almighty god of good would lead these people to believe that killing is "ok"?

First off...no country should depend on importing a necessity such as food. Ever. Hamas should have been creating a home based food commodity. That is the fault of Hamas...reliance on necessitates from other government. Nonetheless, it was true. Humanitarian aid is being sent in to help the population but it's not responsibility of others to provide food for a country that has no interest in doing so themselves. Any aid is just that. Aid. Perhaps if Hamas worked at the important issues for the people and not how to create homemade rockets they wouldn't be so hungry. Hamas takes part of the responsibility for this. Second, Hamas continued it's attacks. You will find no credible news source that doesn't say Hamas has attacked Israel. Israel closes the door when this happens. Again Hamas is at fault.LJS9502_basic

Second I stated that humanitarian aid was allowed by Israel and you flat out denied it. Until I posted a link. Then you fell back on the but it's not enough. So? Guess what...war is not pretty. I feel bad for the children but not the adults that want a terrorist organization (as most of the world sees Hamas) as their government. You get what you asked for....you get the consequences. Most of the links your provided said the exact same thing I said. They were pointless. Nothing you have posted has contradicted anything I have stated. You are arguing against yourself if you but knew it.

So your argument comes down to this. Israel cut some food supplies. Hamas is innocent. Uh....I'm guessing your ethnicity keeps yor firmly biased in this discusion since I have yet to see you say anything against what Hamas has been doing to the people it governs. They have been embroiled in war with other Palestinians. They have gone on record as wanting to be rid of another country. They have ties to Iran and many militant groups with the same agenda. They have targeted Israelis citizens and they make no apologies for that. So I'd say the two factions are rather even here and war being war will contiunue to kill each other.

Dude you reach the end ?

start from the EVENTS section -.-

gla300

Hamas is not at fault for Israel starving their citizens. Hamas is not at fault for Israel raiding the West Bank. Hamas actively pursued the criminals firing the rockets. Israel does not have authority to be a policing power. Israel did not have justification for continuing to starve 1.5 million people because of the acts of a party not affiliated with the current government in power. No matter how you slice it, what Israel was doing was completely unjustified. They were punishing innocent parties for the acts of a party that has nothing to do with the government in power, especially since, according to your own links, Hamas was keeping up their ends of the bargain. Gaza is a relatively poor country, and the blockade itself was starving people. There are no ways you can get around that. Israel is directly responsible, according to UN reports, for the starving of Palestinian citizens.

I never once denied that Israel was allowing some aid into the country. Heck the original link I posted to Jimmy Carter EXPLICITLY stated that Israel was letting some aid into the country, but that the aid simply wasn't enough. Allowing a few trucks into the country means absolutely nothing when your blockade is directly starving 1.5 million people. My statements were that the Palestinian people were starving. That was my claim, and I proved that claim. The UN says it is Israel's fault as a direct result of the blockade. Fact.

Israel cut the vast majority of food supplies, such the extent that, according to Jimmy Carter and the UN, the levels were down to 20% of their original intake. Heck, according to all the articles I provided families were selling their family heirlooms just to survive. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Israel was starving the people of the Gaza strip. Hamas was actively pursuing those that were responsible for the rocket attacks. You cannot blame anyone else BUT Israel for the starving of INNOCENT civilians.Vandalvideo

See a government should make sure the basic necessities of their people are met. Rather than spend money on offensive weapons cultivate livestock and agriculture. Food can grow there. Livestock can live. You can stop with the appeal to emotion fallacy. It isn't going to work. Whereas you want to keep a country poor and dependent I want to see some independence and growth. Your way is only going to continue the starvation. My way has hope for the future.

Yes youi did say that in one of these threads. I don't feel like looking through your history and I sure am not looking through mine. Too long. Only after I posted links and said Carter backed me up did you change your stance. If you are on board with what I said...why do you CONTINUE to argue this? Yeah there is less food. But I've also posted links that show a day after opening one of the blockades Hamas struck that area again to close it back down. After all Hamas can't win the PR department if Israel lifts blockades. You don't find that suspiciaous? Disgusting? Irresponsible?

I blame Hamas. And while ostensibly Hamas was doing SOME of it's job. Israel was still getting attacked and if Hamas is innocent why do the news agencies say Hamas was breaking the treaty as well?

As I said...you see only one side of the issue and sweep away all the misdeeds of Hamas in this and look to blame only one side. That is unfair, it's incorrect, and it's biased. If this bothers you then you SHOULD be mad at BOTH.

[QUOTE="gla300"]

Dude you reach the end ?

start from the EVENTS section -.-

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="gla300"]

Dude you reach the end ?

start from the EVENTS section -.-

gla300

Yes youi did say that in one of these threads. I don't feel like looking through your history and I sure am not looking through mine. Too long. Only after I posted links and said Carter backed me up did you change your stance. If you are on board with what I said...why do you CONTINUE to argue this? Yeah there is less food. But I've also posted links that show a day after opening one of the blockades Hamas struck that area again to close it back down. After all Hamas can't win the PR department if Israel lifts blockades. You don't find that suspiciaous? Disgusting? Irresponsible?

I blame Hamas. And while ostensibly Hamas was doing SOME of it's job. Israel was still getting attacked and if Hamas is innocent why do the news agencies say Hamas was breaking the treaty as well?

As I said...you see only one side of the issue and sweep away all the misdeeds of Hamas in this and look to blame only one side. That is unfair, it's incorrect, and it's biased. If this bothers you then you SHOULD be mad at BOTH.

See a government should make sure the basic necessities of their people are met. Rather than spend money on offensive weapons cultivate livestock and agriculture. Food can grow there. Livestock can live. You can stop with the appeal to emotion fallacy. It isn't going to work. Whereas you want to keep a country poor and dependent I want to see some independence and growth. Your way is only going to continue the starvation. My way has hope for the future.

Yes youi did say that in one of these threads. I don't feel like looking through your history and I sure am not looking through mine. Too long. Only after I posted links and said Carter backed me up did you change your stance. If you are on board with what I said...why do you CONTINUE to argue this? Yeah there is less food. But I've also posted links that show a day after opening one of the blockades Hamas struck that area again to close it back down. After all Hamas can't win the PR department if Israel lifts blockades. You don't find that suspiciaous? Disgusting? Irresponsible?

I blame Hamas. And while ostensibly Hamas was doing SOME of it's job. Israel was still getting attacked and if Hamas is innocent why do the news agencies say Hamas was breaking the treaty as well?

As I said...you see only one side of the issue and sweep away all the misdeeds of Hamas in this and look to blame only one side. That is unfair, it's incorrect, and it's biased. If this bothers you then you SHOULD be mad at BOTH.

Now I know why are saying that its all Hamas wrong, you was watching the Zionist propaganda TV channels right ? channels like : Fox,CNN,CBS...etc Look at their backround and look who owns them, most of them are full with Zionists of course they will say its Hamas wrong, dude I live their and I know who started it, Israel bombed a Hamas members who were doing a show. Just go to youtube.com and type Al Jazzera, this is an Arabian channel that shows what is exactly happening without any propaganda in it.

No, I did not say that. The very first post that I had in that thread was regarding Jimmy Carter, to which you responded, in which he stated that some aid was being allowed into the country. The ammount of aid being allowed in was minimal at best, and people were still starving. My stance was simple; people are starving as a direct result of the blockade. That has been my stance this entire time. Those are facts. As a direct result of the Israeli blockade people are starving. We're not discussing Hamas's actions right now, I'm busy criticizing Israel's actions. I am not Pro-Hamas by any stretch of the imagination. I find their actions deplorable, but at the same time you cannot pretend that Israel was little ms. innocent. I think I've said that exact line twenty eight times now.

I blame Hamas. And while ostensibly Hamas was doing SOME of it's job. Israel was still getting attacked and if Hamas is innocent why do the news agencies say Hamas was breaking the treaty as well?Vandalvideo

Hamas was doing its job and arresting the criminals who were firing rockets. How did Israel repay them? By starving their citizens and keepign the blockade in place. After a year of your people starving you're bound to eventually retaliate, especially when blockades are open acts of war.

As I said...you see only one side of the issue and sweep away all the misdeeds of Hamas in this and look to blame only one side. That is unfair, it's incorrect, and it's biased. If this bothers you then you SHOULD be mad at BOTH.

I most certainly do not only see one side of the issue. I've said multiple times in other threads on the subject that I simply do not support Hamas. To quote myself from another thread; "What I care about is expediently bringing Israel to justice for their inhumane treatment of Palestinian civilians". That is my major concern. If you wanted to talk about Hamas's transgressions save it for another time. I am fully away of those. I am simply concerned with billy clubing the misconception that Israel is innocent. To quote myself again; "I AM mad at both".

i have only see you make excuses for Hamas. I've never once seen you berate them for their actions. When I say something negative about Hmamas...you argue with me. If as you say you hold them responsible there would be no need for your continued presence arguing against what I say about them. Most of my posts have been against their behavior. If you are not disagreeing with that...why do you continue to argue?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]i have only see you make excuses for Hamas. I've never once seen you berate them for their actions. When I say something negative about Hmamas...you argue with me. If as you say you hold them responsible there would be no need for your continued presence arguing against what I say about them. Most of my posts have been against their behavior. If you are not disagreeing with that...why do you continue to argue?Vandalvideo

Hamas is a terrorist organization bent on getting rid of Israel. Is Israel harsh? I suppose. But Hamas does present a threat. During the treaty BOTH sides played fast and loose with it. I will not blame one and condone the other. Israel is/has been under attack. Whether Hamas was the hand behind the attack (and at times they were) or just watching...they bear some blame. You are definitely absolving them and placing all the blame on one side. I don't find that fair....but to be honest...I'm not personally vested in this. Seems you are though.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Hamas is a terrorist organization bent on getting rid of Israel. Is Israel harsh? I suppose. But Hamas does present a threat. During the treaty BOTH sides played fast and loose with it. I will not blame one and condone the other. Israel is/has been under attack. Whether Hamas was the hand behind the attack (and at times they were) or just watching...they bear some blame. You are definitely absolving them and placing all the blame on one side. I don't find that fair....but to be honest...I'm not personally vested in this. Seems you are though.Vandalvideo

:lol: Is that slogan on a T-shirt? That is nothing but an excuse by people using terror as a method. No a freedom fighter is not the same as a terrorist. No matter how you spin it. And you say you are not absolving Hamas. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]:lol: Is that slogan on a T-shirt? That is nothing but an excuse by people using terror as a method. No a freedom fighter is not the same as a terrorist. No matter how you spin it. And you say you are not absolving Hamas. Vandalvideo

Now you know that isn't true. Terrorist is a specific term. Now I'm rather bored with your denials of any wrongdoing by Hamas. So let's end this. I don't need another quip about freedom. FYI prior to Hamas the strip was going in the right direction..slowly yes. But Hamas has set it back. Israel is a country now. The rest of the Middle East needs to get over it and move on.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Now you know that isn't true. Terrorist is a specific term. Now I'm rather bored with your denials of any wrongdoing by Hamas. So let's end this. I don't need another quip about freedom. FYI prior to Hamas the strip was going in the right direction..slowly yes. But Hamas has set it back. Israel is a country now. The rest of the Middle East needs to get over it and move on.Vandalvideo

So reading between the lines it's fine to destroy an entire country because they are different than their neighbors. Wow dude.I think we should leave this. I'm sensing bias.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]So reading between the lines it's fine to destroy an entire country because they are different than their neighbors. Wow dude.I think we should leave this. I'm sensing bias.Vandalvideo

You know Israel and Palestine were making strides until Hamas came to power....uh Hamas wants to erase Israel. You really need to read some different historical books/sites. Hamas is when the renewed problems started. They also had problems with other Palestinian groups and Egypt. But hey....you can love them if you want. But I don't wish to discuss this with you anymore. It's pointless. You see the one side.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]So reading between the lines it's fine to destroy an entire country because they are different than their neighbors. Wow dude.I think we should leave this. I'm sensing bias.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You know Israel and Palestine were making strides until Hamas came to power....uh Hamas wants to erase Israel. You really need to read some different historical books/sites. Hamas is when the renewed problems started. They also had problems with other Palestinian groups and Egypt. But hey....you can love them if you want. But I don't wish to discuss this with you anymore. It's pointless. You see the one side.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]:lol: Is that slogan on a T-shirt? That is nothing but an excuse by people using terror as a method. No a freedom fighter is not the same as a terrorist. No matter how you spin it. And you say you are not absolving Hamas. LJS9502_basic

Man you have never ever experienced the feeling when someone come to your country as a poor guy looking for a peaceful life but one day he tells you to leave your own land and kill your country men and your family, how could say "Get over it" we are not playing a video game here, we Arabs lived in that land for thousands of years, and one day these people took a part of our land by force and tried to change the history and make it look like if they were the good guys.

This is stupid, when someone take the most valuable thing you ever had then you will know and understand what I mean. Lets imagine if a group of people with powerful weapons started to kill your family and race then they took your country and threw you into a small area to live in, how would you feel ?

I have not seen you look at both sides. As for Bible...I was referring to the fact that is now a country. Big deal. Every country in existence started out as something else and changed down the line. That is where they are put. It is a country NOW not talking biblical days dude seriously. :? LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I have not seen you look at both sides. As for Bible...I was referring to the fact that is now a country. Big deal. Every country in existence started out as something else and changed down the line. That is where they are put. It is a country NOW not talking biblical days dude seriously. :? Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="gla300"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The same can be said for the residents of Gaza. They elected Hamas, and you can definitely argue that Hamas hasn't looked out for the best interest of the civilians of Gaza. So do those residents of gaza "deserve it" too?-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="gla300"] Look I will simplifies it for you. Israel used Choppers and planes to kill some of Hamas personals, they kept shooting cars, houses and even Mosques, when Hamas counter attacked by launching rockets, Israel said that they didn't do anything at all for 8 years and now they have the right to self-defense, they started to target people on the streets just to make the people blame Hamas, they killed civilians as a punishment because they elected Hamas. Hamas is the resistances , they are made of Palestinians not Aliens, all they want is just to live in peace but Israel just won't let them, they keep bombing them and saying that they didn't do anything to the Palestinians, what kind of BS is that ? what Israel is doing is like lying on a child, they do bad things in front of dozens of people and deny it later.ffaf666

This seems rather simple to me. Israel has even gone out of their way to warn civillians to get out of areas that will be attacked. The reason civillians are dying in such large numbers is because hamas wants them to, for their own protection and for the world to turn on Israel for being so "barbaric" (as if war were anything but). If the civillians don't want to die, they should stop letting Hamas hide behind them. Israel has not been perfect, but what do you want from them? They have allowed some aid to get in the country, but they are in a freakin war, this is not some kind of sporting event. THey are sending a message to Hamas that they won't be deterred by Hamas shoot and run/hide tactics. If mexico kept firing rockets into the US, or perhaps Ireland into England, or belguim into france (and would not stop), there would probably be a world coalition that would step in militarily. The world should be protecting the right of Israel to exist more than they have been, instead the UN lets Israel get attacked constantly, until finally they snap and this happens. The UN does not care about the real issues here, they just want noone to die today, regardless if that means that more will have to die tomorrow. Their proclamations don't do anything to help anyone. Noone will help Israel, but it seems everyone loves to stand in criticism when Israel does it themselves. superheromonkey

This is either gonna get locked or have 20+ pages.Parandrus

What do you mean by protecting their right to exist ?! They don't have a right to take other people country and start killing them just because their Kahuna said so, with all my respect, I really don't know where do you western people get your news from ??? Because sometimes when I read your comments I start to wonder if you have another history or something like that, there are historical facts that no one can change like for example, Palestine, Arabs owned that land for thousands of years.gla300

EDIT: whoops missed the point again, Western People is a sweeping generalisation, as much as I like them myself, Americans would be more appropriate..

[QUOTE="gla300"]What do you mean by protecting their right to exist ?! They don't have a right to take other people country and start killing them just because their Kahuna said so, with all my respect, I really don't know where do you western people get your news from ??? Because sometimes when I read your comments I start to wonder if you have another history or something like that, there are historical facts that no one can change like for example, Palestine, Arabs owned that land for thousands of years.nattydreadlocks

EDIT: whoops missed the point again, Western People is a sweeping generalisation, as much as I like them myself, Americans would be more appropriate..