Glenn Beck: "African-American is a bogus, PC, made-up term - not a race&quo

[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"][QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"] "The situation has since changed" I am pretty sure that I know more about the "situation" than you do. If you think that you dont want to "mess up", then its simple DONT CALL US THAT, but to say to completely throw away a term that most african americans are proud of is ridiculous, biased, and ignorant, as I have clearly explained before. peaceoutmedusa

This will be fun:

1) I didn't say it didn't make sense within the English language, so if you're basing me being 'ignorant' off something i didn't say, i can safely assume that i am indeed, as i thought, not at all ignorant.

2) Polish American/Irish American refers to someone's country of origin. The place they left, or their recent ancestors left, to come to America. 'African American' does not refer to a country, and as such is totally different. Like Beck said (even though i hate the guy), it's used to refer to a whole race, and there is no such race as 'african american'. Further, i haven't said anything should be 'stripped' or 'thrown out', i just voiced my disapproval of a term i find silly.

So once again, i haven't even said that so i can assume i'm not 'biased' at all.

And now for my final thought: The problem with the term 'african american' is that it is abrasively presumptuous. If a person where asked to describe another who is black, by your demands they should refer to them as african american. In doing so you make two assumptions about that person, one that they are American (they could be British, French, anything....) and two that they are of African descent, when they could in fact be from Jamaica, Tahiti, Brazil, anywhere. It is also presumptuous in that you refer to 'african' as though the whole continent is black, which also isn't the case. So to conclude, referring to all blacks as 'african american' is to assume that all black people are from Africa, which is silly.

It also implies that you shouldn't say 'black', which if you ask me is offensive in and of itself, in that you are effectively making black an offensive word, which it isn't. There's nothing wrong with being black, and acting like the word in itself is a taboo one is offensive to black people.

if i moved to africa and obtained citizenship there, would i be an american-african?

needled24-7

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]

if i moved to africa and obtained citizenship there, would i be an american-african?

Serraph105

wow this is the first time I have said this about Glenn Beck, but that was actually a logical argument. He still comes off as an offensive ***** while doing it though however in this case he isn''t necessarily wrong either.

I think my mind was just blown because I found heard a video where Beck wasn't completely illogical.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"]@Drmcninja Thats ridiculous. We arent supposed to think "just because a couple people say the word with the wrong person, we will throw out the word, because we get them all confused". If anything, that is silly. I would be hard pressed to find someone to say that polish american or Italian American or Irish American is silly and should be thrown out.Doctor-McNinja

Jamaican blacks can trace their ancestry back to Africa, as can British blacks. Besides, if I call someone African-American who doesn't like the label then I just won't call them that again. The ancestry is what's important, it's what a lot of black people that I know point to as to why they like the term. They're not just blacks, they're not just defined by skin color. White people have their own rich heritages that they brought to America, that they made the dominant tradition in America. For the longest time black people were not included in that tradition. They did begin to take on aspects of white culture, as can be seen in the spread of a unique brand of Christianity among southern slaves, but after abolition they were still met with the prospect of being outsiders in their own homeland. Culture is vitally important in developing communities, and even in helping people to develop unique personalities. The culture that American blacks had after slavery was one of despair, so instead of keeping that as the dominant apsect of their culture they instead decided to reconnect with their African culture, to embrace their new country but in a way in which they could keep aspects of their heritage, hence African-American. it's not ridiculous at all, it's emblematic of how black people in America view their history, as being put through great struggle, being removed from their native culture, but through it all maintaining it while still managing to survive and thrive in their new home.

Since you bring it up, Jamaican culture is very similar. They don't call themselves African-American, and I wouldn't call them that either, they call themselves Jamaican. That's because their land is their own. They're not living in a foreign culture, they overthrew their enslavers and made the culture of the country their own. They have, however, largely embraced Rastafarianism which is based in part on the principle that though native Africans have been removed from their homeland they still maintain ties to it and are all part of a global African nation.

At any rate, just call people what they want to be called. If that's Jamaican fine, British, fine, African-American, fine, black, fine. Just don't suppose that there's a universal rule. That's called courtesy, deferring to other people's judgement on what they wish to be called. It's part of their identity, who they feel they are, how they wish to be viewed, and all the logical reasons for or against are secondary to that.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"] @Solid_Snake325 and Doctor-McNinja and anyone else wondering, I choose to identify my self african american because just like "polish americans" "irish americanse" and "french americans", I did not derive from the continent or country called "black". Although I still accept the term black, but african american (just like those other terms) explains that my people did not begin in slavery, but were kings and independent and had our own system, civilization, and educational background like many others have. Doctor-McNinja

At any rate, just call people what they want to be called. If that's Jamaican fine, British, fine, African-American, fine, black, fine. Just don't suppose that there's a universal rule. That's called courtesy, deferring to other people's judgement on what they wish to be called. It's part of their identity, who they feel they are, how they wish to be viewed, and all the logical reasons for or against are secondary to that.

theone86

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"] The topic was about ending the use of the term "african american".Doctor-McNinja

[QUOTE="theone86"]

At any rate, just call people what they want to be called. If that's Jamaican fine, British, fine, African-American, fine, black, fine. Just don't suppose that there's a universal rule. That's called courtesy, deferring to other people's judgement on what they wish to be called. It's part of their identity, who they feel they are, how they wish to be viewed, and all the logical reasons for or against are secondary to that.

Doctor-McNinja

Yes, but you also say that it should only be applied to people who were born in Africa and moved to America, that is patently wrong. It does not indicate nationality, it indicates heritage and culture. I'm not even sure if you're taking the argument the right way, this may sound ego-centric but I do think it is a uniquely American discussion. Black people in other countries have defined who they are in different ways. My impression is that in Britain they simply identify as being British, and that's fine. i don't think anyone arguing that we should call every black person on the face of the earth African-American. but in America there is a unique tradition of post-slavery segregation that lasted longer than any other and which had an argument surrounding it that was more vociiferous than any other. Because of that American blacks largely identify as African-American, again due to culture and heritage not technical nationality, and it's not presumptuous to call American blacks by that term because in large part they find that definition the most accpetable. If they like some other definition then they'll tell me, but it's not presumptuous to call them African-American, it's presumptuous to think that they won't be offended by me calling them black.

African-American is not a Race. You're born in America, therefore you are an American. Like everyone else. No other ethnic group refers to themselves as ...-American.

African-American is not a Race. You're born in America, therefore you are an American. Like everyone else. No other ethnic group refers to themselves as ...-American.

Snipes_2

African-American is not a Race. You're born in America, therefore you are an American. Like everyone else. No other ethnic group refers to themselves as ...-American.

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

African-American is not a Race. You're born in America, therefore you are an American. Like everyone else. No other ethnic group refers to themselves as ...-American.

peaceoutmedusa

I've never heard anyone Born or anyone immigrated refer to themselves like that. IF you're here, You are an American. I'd be German/Italian/Irish/British-American if this was the case.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

African-American is not a Race. You're born in America, therefore you are an American. Like everyone else. No other ethnic group refers to themselves as ...-American.

Snipes_2

I've never heard anyone Born or anyone immigrated refer to themselves like that. IF you're here, You are an American. I'd be German/Italian/Irish/British-American if this was the case.

Yeah, hence the African-AMERICAN.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

African-American is not a Race. You're born in America, therefore you are an American. Like everyone else. No other ethnic group refers to themselves as ...-American.

theone86

IF you're here, you're an American. Sure you may have come from somewhere else, everyone did. I've never heard anyone call themselves "Irish-American etc.." .

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"] actually, mexican-americans, irish-americans, british-americans, asain-americans, french-americans all do.theone86

I've never heard anyone Born or anyone immigrated refer to themselves like that. IF you're here, You are an American. I'd be German/Italian/Irish/British-American if this was the case.

Yeah, hence the African-AMERICAN.

So, I should call myself German/Italian/Irish/British-American? They weren't BORN in Africa, that's their Origin.

What if your a white guy from Africa. Will that throw off your lung capacity tests?

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

African-American is not a Race. You're born in America, therefore you are an American. Like everyone else. No other ethnic group refers to themselves as ...-American.

Snipes_2

IF you're here, you're an American. Sure you may have come from somewhere else, everyone did. I've never heard anyone call themselves "Irish-American etc.." .

No one's denying that they're American, that's why they all include American in the description. And just because you've never heard it means it's never happened? Note, I did say it was prominent, HALFWAY THROUGH THE LAST CENTURY, pretty sure you weren't alive to hear it back then.

[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"][QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"] The topic was about ending the use of the term "african american".peaceoutmedusa

Yes, but you also say that it should only be applied to people who were born in Africa and moved to America, that is patently wrong.

theone86

What if your a white guy from Africa. Will that throw off your lung capacity tests?

DaBrainz

Most people that actually come from Africa, white or black, tend to identify by their country of origin anyways, they're Ghanian or South African, or what have you.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="theone86"] It refers to culture, not country of origin. It's only recently that people have stopped using terms like Irish-American, it was still fairly common halfway through the last century.

theone86

IF you're here, you're an American. Sure you may have come from somewhere else, everyone did. I've never heard anyone call themselves "Irish-American etc.." .

No one's denying that they're American, that's why they all include American in the description. And just because you've never heard it means it's never happened? Note, I did say it was prominent, HALFWAY THROUGH THE LAST CENTURY, pretty sure you weren't alive to hear it back then.

I'm going to refer to them as Americans. Nothing Else. I never said it didn't happen by the way, All I said was I've never heard that before.

African-American is an irritating term. A black person living in Germany is not called an "African-German," they're called black. Likewise a white American living in China is white, but a black person living in the US is called "African-American." It makes more sense to leave it as "black" just for consistency's sake.

Plus throwing the "American" on the end seems like we're purposely trying to put race and citizenship together, when the two are completely separate.

I agree with him. Just like Mexican isn't a race. All the people out there that are afraid to seal up the border to keep the illegal Mexican immigrants out because they don't want to seem "racist", even though illegal immigration has nothing to do with race. There's a lot of white and black people that are Mexican. Our immigration policy applies to all races. So stop trying to say Mexican is a race, it isn't. Hispanic is. Nationality =/= Race People need to learn the difference. Oh, and this politically correct stuff is beyond annoying. I've never heard of another country in the world that's so afraid of not being "politically correct". This is America. We have freedom of speech. There's no such thing as politically correct because everyone has their own views of what's politically correct and what's not. Politically correct is fake, and wrong. And us as Americans need to stop complicating things by having to categorize everything, because from what I've seen in my life... categorizing things and creating special labels for everything only supports and provokes racism.Messiahbolical-

Yup, I agree with you there. Everyone's always worried about "Political Correctness". I never understood how stopping Illegal Immigration was "Racist", it's illegal..:x

And us as Americans need to stop complicating things by having to categorize everything, because from what I've seen in my life... categorizing things and creating special labels for everything only supports and provokes racism.Messiahbolical-

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"][QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"] No it wasn't, it was about Glenn Beck being an ass as usual and giving his two cents on the term. When you quote a person, you reply to what they said. You quoted me (and others) and gave very offended replies about how it would be wrong to 'throw out' the term and such when i said no such thing. Had you actually read the point i made you would probably agree with me.Doctor-McNinja

A. Most black people can trace their ancestry back to Africa, unless we want to get into useless semantics.

B. No one was arguing that we call EVERY black person on the face of the earth African-American, that's your own (incorrect) assertation. Like I said before, this is an American discussion about black people living in the U.S. I wouldn't go to Jamaica and start calling people African-American. They're technically American in that their part of the American continent, they cna trace their ancestry back to Africa, but they have developed their own culture and prefer to be called Jamaican, I respect that. I'm simply saying that in the U.S. the civil thing to do is assume that they'd prefer the term African-American and if they don't it's far less offensive than if you assumed they preferred to be called black and they didn't.

[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"][QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"] What you said when you first posted here... "'African America' is indeed a silly expression."..... Dude who were you just trying to fool??? You said that just a few minutes ago!!! theone86

A. Most black people can trace their ancestry back to Africa, unless we want to get into useless semantics.

B. No one was arguing that we call EVERY black person on the face of the earth African-American, that's your own (incorrect) assertation. Like I said before, this is an American discussion about black people living in the U.S. I wouldn't go to Jamaica and start calling people African-American. They're technically American in that their part of the American continent, they cna trace their ancestry back to Africa, but they have developed their own culture and prefer to be called Jamaican, I respect that. I'm simply saying that in the U.S. the civil thing to do is assume that they'd prefer the term African-American and if they don't it's far less offensive than if you assumed they preferred to be called black and they didn't.

I agree with him. Just like Mexican isn't a race. All the people out there that are afraid to seal up the border to keep the illegal Mexican immigrants out because they don't want to seem "racist", even though illegal immigration has nothing to do with race. There's a lot of white and black people that are Mexican. Our immigration policy applies to all races. So stop trying to say Mexican is a race, it isn't. Hispanic is. Nationality =/= Race People need to learn the difference. Oh, and this politically correct stuff is beyond annoying. I've never heard of another country in the world that's so afraid of not being "politically correct". This is America. We have freedom of speech. There's no such thing as politically correct because everyone has their own views of what's politically correct and what's not. Politically correct is fake, and wrong. And us as Americans need to stop complicating things by having to categorize everything, because from what I've seen in my life... categorizing things and creating special labels for everything only supports and provokes racism.Messiahbolical-

Immigration is a whole other topic and you don't seem too well versed on its intricacies.

There's technically no race period, racism has more to do with ethnicity and culture. Because we assigned value to, "race," based on placing people in arbitrary groups we must also deal with discrimination based on those arbitrary groups.

What a weak argument, we have freedom of speech. No one is talking about restricting constitutional rights, this is a discussion about what is proper and considerate. You have the constitutional right to be neither just like I have the constitutional right to ciriticize you for being neither.

Acting as if these categories don't exist provokes racism as well. The notion of being color blind is ridiculous because it paints us as all being the same. While this is true of intrinsic value, it is not true in terms of differences in culture. What being color blind ignores is the differences in culture that should be embraced instead of ignored. That's what the label African-American is all about, embracing African culture and heritage.

And again, PC is just a label that's used to put a spin on things, what it eventually comes down to is not agreeing with the logic behind the term, but respecting African-Americans' logic for the term and desire to be referred to by the term. That's what being a part of society is all about, respecting differences. Getting angry over those differences is what really leads to racism.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"] Now you're going to argue and tell another person what they did or didn't say? Why not just accept that you jumped the gun in taking offense? There's a reason why you didn't post the sentence immediately after that one, and you know it as well as i do. It's because i said it's silly when used to refer to ALL black people. For the last time, i made a very simple point: Describing anyone who is black as 'african american' is silly and presumptuous, as you assume that they are both american and of african descent, which they might not be. YOU went off in a totally different direction talking about 'throwing out' the term which i didn't say at all. If you are indeed african american, you can obviously refer to yourself as such. I said it was silly to refer to ALL black people as african american. Doctor-McNinja

A. Most black people can trace their ancestry back to Africa, unless we want to get into useless semantics.

B. No one was arguing that we call EVERY black person on the face of the earth African-American, that's your own (incorrect) assertation. Like I said before, this is an American discussion about black people living in the U.S. I wouldn't go to Jamaica and start calling people African-American. They're technically American in that their part of the American continent, they cna trace their ancestry back to Africa, but they have developed their own culture and prefer to be called Jamaican, I respect that. I'm simply saying that in the U.S. the civil thing to do is assume that they'd prefer the term African-American and if they don't it's far less offensive than if you assumed they preferred to be called black and they didn't.

OK, now you're completely ignoring what I'm saying. I never said we should call ALL black people African Americans, I said in the U.S. we should assume that they would prefer to be called that rather than black because in the U.S. that is less likely to offend someone. I'm not even going to bother responding to your claims about the words I'm supposedly putting into your mouth, either read my post or don't.

Is Glenn Beck right when he says the new census has a box to check for "Black", a box for "African-American", AND a box for "Negro"? That's ridiculous. I don't even know how someone is supposed to decide which one of the three that they are...JML897

"White", "Caucasian", "Pink" and a fourth "Tanned"

:P

Race as a concept is so ambiguous. I for one think it is unnecessary.

[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"][QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"] What you said when you first posted here... "'African America' is indeed a silly expression."..... Dude who were you just trying to fool??? You said that just a few minutes ago!!! theone86

A. Most black people can trace their ancestry back to Africa, unless we want to get into useless semantics.

B. No one was arguing that we call EVERY black person on the face of the earth African-American, that's your own (incorrect) assertation. Like I said before, this is an American discussion about black people living in the U.S. I wouldn't go to Jamaica and start calling people African-American. They're technically American in that their part of the American continent, they cna trace their ancestry back to Africa, but they have developed their own culture and prefer to be called Jamaican, I respect that. I'm simply saying that in the U.S. the civil thing to do is assume that they'd prefer the term African-American and if they don't it's far less offensive than if you assumed they preferred to be called black and they didn't.

Unless those "useless" semantics include such common knowledge as how Africa isn't a country... Why not just call a spade a spade and call an "African-American" black?

(Text city)theone86

OK, now you're completely ignoring what I'm saying. I never said we should call ALL black people African Americans, I said in the U.S. we should assume that they would prefer to be called that rather than black because in the U.S. that is less likely to offend someone. I'm not even going to bother responding to your claims about the words I'm supposedly putting into your mouth, either read my post or don't.

theone86

You didn't bother responding because there is no response; not everything is an argument. That's exactly what has been wrong with this whole discussion, everything i say you post a counter - even when i haven't said anything counterable. Hence why i complained that you said so many things in response to stuff i hadn't even said. Calling all black americans african americans is exactly what you just said; you said you should presume they would prefer to be called that over black. I disagree wholeheartedly. I think 'african american' is presumptuous, whereas the term 'black' isn't, and there is nothing wrong at all with the word 'black', it is not a word to be avoided as though it is a bad one. That in itself is offensive, if you ask me.

'either read my post or dont' - i responded to everything you said.

My point was a simple one; you shouldn't call everyone African American, because they might not be either. You responded with a load of things i didn't say at all. The only thing you've said which had any relevance to what i said in the first place is that you think you SHOULD call all black (if you're in the US) african americans, which like i said from the beginning, i disagree with. Simples.

Uh...he's right :|.

They're black.

Also, people who are from the country of South Africa are not referred to as "African American" because they are white. If this doesn't out the term "African American" as a bogus, PC, made-up term, I don't know what does.

[QUOTE="CoolSkAGuy"]Why must everything have label in it, I say we just called them you people........ "wait what do you mean why you people" I love it when that happens in a movie :PDystopian-X

I don't take seriously any man who starts crying on TV about some inane reason about traditional values. The only reason a man should cry is if he got kicked in the groin or lost a limb. I didn't see either happen. The sad fact is that he has a popular show because there are people who wholeheartedly believe all the crap he tants about. While others listen to him as a sort of a joke to see what he'll say next. Either group just adds to his ratings thus money.

I hate Glenn Beck but Ive always thought that African-American is a totally hollow and inaccurate term.

Judo_boy

I like what one black military guy said on Fox News Radio once during a conversation about blacks in politics. He was called an African American and said he was a Black American because he was born in America not Africa.

The only thing that bothered me about this was Beck rewriting history when he said only blacks use hyphenated nationality/ethnicity. When in reality, Irish people called themselves Irish-American; Polish people called themselves Polish-Americans; Italian people called themselves Italian-americans.

His one broadcast buddy Bill O'Reilly refers to himself as a Irish-American all the time; Alyssa Milano referred to herself as Italian-Americans just a couple of weeks ago when the "Jersey Shore" controversy was going on.