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IronSalamander

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#1 IronSalamander
Member since 2008 • 496 Posts

I think thats why people are so turned off about Christians today, the majority preach "do this do that or your going to hell" when really its nothing like that. God just straight up wants a relationship with you.

If you love to play video games for hours, God loves you the same.

If you like to wind down after a hard day of work with a beer or two, God loves you the same.

If you enjoy smoking, God loves you the same.

If you cuss during regular conversation, God loves you the same.

Hell, I skipped school and got high as a kite today, God still loves me.

I think if people stopped trying to prove their worth to God, if they stopped trying to impress Him, our lives would be so much better.

Discuss.

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IronSalamander

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#2 IronSalamander
Member since 2008 • 496 Posts
Just want to say, out of all those things, He doesnt approve of smoking a joint, since its illegal, but he still loves me. Doesnt love that I did it, but whatever, its all in the past now, He aint lookin back.
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GwannaSauna

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#3 GwannaSauna
Member since 2008 • 583 Posts
Nice. Your message speaks the truth :)
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BobbyTurkalino

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#4 BobbyTurkalino
Member since 2003 • 31463 Posts
Does God love my dog too?
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SavageM2

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#5 SavageM2
Member since 2005 • 10800 Posts
If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...
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harashawn

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#6 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts
I consider myself a Christian, but the idea of Hell doesn't really make sense to me. Although, if it exists, I have no doubt that is where I am going.
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chessmaster1989

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#7 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
You know, I clicked on this thread expecting it to be some kind of rant about how we all should worship God, but I was pleasantly surprised. I don't personally believe in God, but I like your attitude towards religion. It's so much less belligerent than most people's. It's the kind of religious attitude that I respect. Oh, and I agree with you on the points you made.
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blackldragon

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#8 blackldragon
Member since 2005 • 1540 Posts
Normally I'd say i don't care about god but then i got changed by someone and now I feel warm... o god what is happeneing... :cry:
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foxhound_fox

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#9 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Be nice if he made an effort to make me and the billions of other non-Christians believe in him. Makes me think he isn't as special as you make him out to be... or the "right" choice for that matter. I personally feel more compelled to believe that Shiva, Krishna and Brahma exist.
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Monkeyboy_172

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#10 Monkeyboy_172
Member since 2007 • 362 Posts
I was always told God condemned that kind of love
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gobo212

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#11 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
I have problem with the idea that God prefers humans over all other types of life. Any religion that espouses that is a serious problem for society and I can not respect the institution nor its followers.
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IronSalamander

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#12 IronSalamander
Member since 2008 • 496 Posts
If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...SavageM2
He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good.
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VENOM192

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#13 VENOM192
Member since 2009 • 1385 Posts
Nice everything he/she said was 100% true!!!
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blackldragon

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#14 blackldragon
Member since 2005 • 1540 Posts
[QUOTE="SavageM2"]If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...IronSalamander
He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good.

But isn't good ominpotent so wouldn't he know what your goina do anyways thus makes the point of living moot.
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alphamale1989

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#15 alphamale1989
Member since 2008 • 3134 Posts
Your correct that no matter what God will love you, and if you believe that through Jesus all your sins are forgiven that is also true. In a way christianity is not as much about trying to be good, as realizing that you can never be good enough. That said, sin hinders God's ability to work in your life. "Salvation through grace" is a difficult doctrine in that some people take it as they can accept Jesus, then ignore God and do whatever they want. But yeah you got it right, more christians need to know this.
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foxhound_fox

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#16 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good. IronSalamander

Last time I checked, God created the universe... so obviously he created Hell along with it... and all the rules that make someone end up there if they don't follow them. Under God, there is no free will... it is the paradox of an omnipotent creator of everything.
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SavageM2

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#17 SavageM2
Member since 2005 • 10800 Posts
[QUOTE="SavageM2"]If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...IronSalamander
He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good.

So if you don't want to "have a relationship" with him / don't have enough proof to merit believing you get to swim in a lake of fire? Well that just seems odd to me.
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IronSalamander

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#18 IronSalamander
Member since 2008 • 496 Posts
[QUOTE="IronSalamander"][QUOTE="SavageM2"]If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...blackldragon
He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good.

But isn't good ominpotent so wouldn't he know what your goina do anyways thus makes the point of living moot.

What? :?
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bluemistake2

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#19 bluemistake2
Member since 2008 • 239 Posts

if anything god hates me...

masturbation is a sin stealing is a sin adultery is a sin god i'm going straight to hell also killing is a sin and i am not going to heaven.... wait... forget that last one... hehe... hehe...

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gobo212

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#20 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="IronSalamander"]He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good. foxhound_fox

Last time I checked, God created the universe... so obviously he created Hell along with it... and all the rules that make someone end up there if they don't follow them. Under God, there is no free will... it is the paradox of an omnipotent creator of everything.

Yes I never understood this and no explanation that theists have ever given has satisfied me.
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zakkro

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#21 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts
I have parents for that.
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VENOM192

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#22 VENOM192
Member since 2009 • 1385 Posts
[QUOTE="IronSalamander"]He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good. foxhound_fox

Last time I checked, God created the universe... so obviously he created Hell along with it... and all the rules that make someone end up there if they don't follow them. Under God, there is no free will... it is the paradox of an omnipotent creator of everything.

God did create the universe but not hell, Satan created hell and is celebrating to any1 that ends up with him in there and sadly enough is that he is celebrating everyday.
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IronSalamander

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#23 IronSalamander
Member since 2008 • 496 Posts
[QUOTE="IronSalamander"][QUOTE="SavageM2"]If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...SavageM2
He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good.

So if you don't want to "have a relationship" with him / don't have enough proof to merit believing you get to swim in a lake of fire? Well that just seems odd to me.

He doesn't want to deny anyone access to Heaven, but if a person is going to ignore God their whole and spit in his face at every chance they get, He's not gonna open the door for them. Religion is general is based off of Faith, if you dont have faith, then your not going to be able to believe in God. Our brains are so tiny we cannot logicly comprehend God, thus making faith the only way to get there. If you have no faith then why argue if theres a God or not? you already have the answer.
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FallofAthens

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#24 FallofAthens
Member since 2008 • 2026 Posts

[QUOTE="IronSalamander"][QUOTE="SavageM2"]If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...blackldragon
He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good.

But isn't good ominpotent so wouldn't he know what your goina do anyways thus makes the point of living moot.

Maybe this'll help. I asked the same question before and someone gave me this link: Here

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foxhound_fox

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#25 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
God did create the universe but not hell, Satan created hell and is celebrating to any1 that ends up with him in there and sadly enough is that he is celebrating everyday.VENOM192

Oh how I love this...

God created everything in the universe. He created all of his angels. Lucifer was among those angels. He want against God's will and was cast out of heaven. Satan may have created Hell but God created Satan... and allows him to continue to exist despite him tempting humanity into sinning and stealing their souls from God's divine paradise.

God's an ass.
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Slaveways

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#26 Slaveways
Member since 2006 • 663 Posts

God just straight up wants a relationship with you.

IronSalamander

i lol'd

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SavageM2

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#27 SavageM2
Member since 2005 • 10800 Posts

He doesn't want to deny anyone access to Heaven, but if a person is going to ignore God their whole and spit in his face at every chance they get, He's not gonna open the door for them. Religion is general is based off of Faith, if you dont have faith, then your not going to be able to believe in God. Our brains are so tiny we cannot logicly comprehend God, thus making faith the only way to get there. If you have no faith then why argue if theres a God or not? you already have the answer.IronSalamander

That is kind of what I don't get though. If he/she doesn't want to deny anyone access why can't he/she do something more to get people to believe. If it is all on faith I think that is a little bit silly. "Have faith and follow me, or burn". What do we have to make us believe/make us have faith? A couple of old books? Also, I hardly see just not believing to be "spiting in his face at every chance they get".

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alphamale1989

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#28 alphamale1989
Member since 2008 • 3134 Posts
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="IronSalamander"]He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good. gobo212
Last time I checked, God created the universe... so obviously he created Hell along with it... and all the rules that make someone end up there if they don't follow them. Under God, there is no free will... it is the paradox of an omnipotent creator of everything.

Yes I never understood this and no explanation that theists have ever given has satisfied me.

This probably isn't good enough for you but think about it this way: What happens when you break a countries laws? You get punished, if that weren't so then thier would be in justice. Now imagine things from the Christian perspective: God created man and he had rules about how man should live his life, how could a just and perfect God not enforce theser rules? The consequences for breaking the laws of God is death. Thats where the animal sacrifices came in - something had to die as consequence for breaking God's law. (again if thier were no consequences how could God be perfect and just as He claims) But these sacrifices were only temporary, God sent his son Jesus who willingly gave up his life as the final perfect sacrifice for all sin. So God does love us. You've probably already heard that before but thats what we christians believe. I can't answer any more questions because I have to study.... but we do have answeres. (And don't flame me because I cant spell, its late and I admit spelling is my weakest quality.)
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VENOM192

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#29 VENOM192
Member since 2009 • 1385 Posts
[QUOTE="VENOM192"]God did create the universe but not hell, Satan created hell and is celebrating to any1 that ends up with him in there and sadly enough is that he is celebrating everyday.foxhound_fox

Oh how I love this...

God created everything in the universe. He created all of his angels. Lucifer was among those angels. He want against God's will and was cast out of heaven. Satan may have created Hell but God created Satan... and allows him to continue to exist despite him tempting humanity into sinning and stealing their souls from God's divine paradise.

God's an ass.

Look I so badly want to call u an a*s but that will be going down to ur lvl and u dont even know what ur talkin about! Satan was once a angel but he betrayed God and then God kicked him out of heaven and the only reason why God haven't killed satan yet is bcause he wants us to make a choice: God or satan and he wants us to choose him! This topic wasn't about ur perspective about God it was about God loves u so go elsewhere.
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123625

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#30 123625
Member since 2006 • 9035 Posts
Yup =)
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gobo212

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#31 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] Last time I checked, God created the universe... so obviously he created Hell along with it... and all the rules that make someone end up there if they don't follow them. Under God, there is no free will... it is the paradox of an omnipotent creator of everything.alphamale1989
Yes I never understood this and no explanation that theists have ever given has satisfied me.

This probably isn't good enough for you but think about it this way: What happens when you break a countries laws? You get punished, if that weren't so then thier would be in justice. Now imagine things from the Christian perspective: God created man and he had rules about how man should live his life, how could a just and perfect God not enforce theser rules? The consequences for breaking the laws of God is death. Thats where the animal sacrifices came in - something had to die as consequence for breaking God's law. (again if thier were no consequences how could God be perfect and just as He claims) But these sacrifices were only temporary, God sent his son Jesus who willingly gave up his life as the final perfect sacrifice for all sin. So God does love us. You've probably already heard that before but thats what we christians believe. I can't answer any more questions because I have to study.... but we do have answeres. (And don't flame me because I cant spell, its late and I admit spelling is my weakest quality.)

That wasn't relevant to what we were discussing. If God knows everything that will ever happen and God created the universe than how can we possibly do anything other than God's will? God created me and God knew long before he created me that I would do action A... How could I do anything else?
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foxhound_fox

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#32 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Look I so badly want to call u an a*s but that will be going down to ur lvl and u dont even know what ur talkin about! Satan was once a angel but he betrayed God and then God kicked him out of heaven and the only reason why God haven't killed satan yet is bcause he wants us to make a choice: God or satan and he wants us to choose him! This topic wasn't about ur perspective about God it was about God loves u so go elsewhere.VENOM192

Go ahead, call me an ass, I won't take it personally because I know that I am morally superior to God.

God is all powerful. Omnipotent. He controls everything and sees everything, past present and future. For him to consciously allow Satan to exist and prevent people from coming to him in his divine realm by not making his teachings incredibly obvious... is to completely go against the definition of benevolence and all-loving.

I don't need God to make a choice. I never needed God to live a morally just and fulfilling life. If God wants me to worship him, he better make his presence a little more obvious and give me a reason to kneel down and kiss his feet... because so far, I'm not convinced.

If this topic is purely about evangelising, expect a lock.
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harashawn

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#33 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts


Oh how I love this...

God created everything in the universe. He created all of his angels. Lucifer was among those angels. He want against God's will and was cast out of heaven. Satan may have created Hell but God created Satan... and allows him to continue to exist despite him tempting humanity into sinning and stealing their souls from God's divine paradise.

God's an ass.foxhound_fox
Why would God destroy his own creation?

It would be like killing your child because (s)he tricks other children into making mistakes.

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alphamale1989

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#34 alphamale1989
Member since 2008 • 3134 Posts
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="VENOM192"]God did create the universe but not hell, Satan created hell and is celebrating to any1 that ends up with him in there and sadly enough is that he is celebrating everyday.VENOM192

Oh how I love this...
God created everything in the universe. He created all of his angels. Lucifer was among those angels. He want against God's will and was cast out of heaven. Satan may have created Hell but God created Satan... and allows him to continue to exist despite him tempting humanity into sinning and stealing their souls from God's divine paradise.
God's an ass.

Look I so badly want to call u an a*s but that will be going down to ur lvl and u dont even know what ur talkin about! Satan was once a angel but he betrayed God and then God kicked him out of heaven and the only reason why God haven't killed satan yet is bcause he wants us to make a choice: God or satan and he wants us to choose him! This topic wasn't about ur perspective about God it was about God loves u so go elsewhere.

Him stating his issues with Christianity does not make him an a*s. When non christains see stuff like this, it is natural for them to have a response. Please don't take this personal, but I had to say that, sorry.
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foxhound_fox

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#35 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Why would God destroy his own creation?

It would be like killing your child because (s)he tricks other children into making mistakes.

harashawn

Because to condemn people to an eternity of relentless torture for finite mistakes is morally unjust?
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FallofAthens

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#36 FallofAthens
Member since 2008 • 2026 Posts

[QUOTE="VENOM192"]God did create the universe but not hell, Satan created hell and is celebrating to any1 that ends up with him in there and sadly enough is that he is celebrating everyday.foxhound_fox

Oh how I love this...

God created everything in the universe. He created all of his angels. Lucifer was among those angels. He want against God's will and was cast out of heaven. Satan may have created Hell but God created Satan... and allows him to continue to exist despite him tempting humanity into sinning and stealing their souls from God's divine paradise.

God's an ass.

I'll admit, that's something I question as well and doesn't make much sense.

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chessmaster1989

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#37 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

I was always told God condemned that kind of loveMonkeyboy_172

I see what you did here :P

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foxhound_fox

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#38 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
I'll admit, that's something I question as well and doesn't make much sense. FallofAthens

Which tends to give more prevalence to the deist and pantheistic definition of God over the Judeo-Christian monotheistic one. Since they are not so easily undermined by their own mythology.
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123625

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#39 123625
Member since 2006 • 9035 Posts
[QUOTE="harashawn"]Why would God destroy his own creation?

It would be like killing your child because (s)he tricks other children into making mistakes.

foxhound_fox


Because to condemn people to an eternity of relentless torture for finite mistakes is morally unjust?

I don't know about other christians... but I don't beleive that :/

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3ofClubs

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#40 3ofClubs
Member since 2007 • 418 Posts
Hope god love me.
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FallofAthens

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#41 FallofAthens
Member since 2008 • 2026 Posts

[QUOTE="FallofAthens"]I'll admit, that's something I question as well and doesn't make much sense. foxhound_fox

Which tends to give more prevalence to the deist and pantheistic definition of God over the Judeo-Christian monotheistic one. Since they are not so easily undermined by their own mythology.

Lol, can you rephrase that in a more... user friendly manner. I don't understand. Sorry I'm just one of the simple people that don't use words like that. :P

Being serious, yes I do agree with you to an extent.

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harashawn

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#42 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts

Because to condemn people to an eternity of relentless torture for finite mistakes is morally unjust?foxhound_fox
I don't want to sound like some crazy evangelist or anything, but we have the choice to repent at any time. Even a convicted criminal was allowed into heaven, simply because he knew Jesus did not deserve execution.
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SavageM2

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#43 SavageM2
Member since 2005 • 10800 Posts
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
Because to condemn people to an eternity of relentless torture for finite mistakes is morally unjust?harashawn
I don't want to sound like some crazy evangelist or anything, but we have the choice to repent at any time. Even a convicted criminal was allowed into heaven, simply because he knew Jesus did not deserve execution.

How does that make any sense though? I mean lets say you have a guy that doesn't believe/have faith. But was morally a good person. Contributed to society, helped old ladies across the street :P, never got into any trouble. But he doesn't get to go to heaven. Yet an Axe murderer can because he repented?
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alphamale1989

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#44 alphamale1989
Member since 2008 • 3134 Posts
[QUOTE="alphamale1989"][QUOTE="gobo212"] Yes I never understood this and no explanation that theists have ever given has satisfied me.gobo212
This probably isn't good enough for you but think about it this way: What happens when you break a countries laws? You get punished, if that weren't so then thier would be in justice. Now imagine things from the Christian perspective: God created man and he had rules about how man should live his life, how could a just and perfect God not enforce theser rules? The consequences for breaking the laws of God is death. Thats where the animal sacrifices came in - something had to die as consequence for breaking God's law. (again if thier were no consequences how could God be perfect and just as He claims) But these sacrifices were only temporary, God sent his son Jesus who willingly gave up his life as the final perfect sacrifice for all sin. So God does love us. You've probably already heard that before but thats what we christians believe. I can't answer any more questions because I have to study.... but we do have answeres. (And don't flame me because I cant spell, its late and I admit spelling is my weakest quality.)

That wasn't relevant to what we were discussing. If God knows everything that will ever happen and God created the universe than how can we possibly do anything other than God's will? God created me and God knew long before he created me that I would do action A... How could I do anything else?

I'm a terrible debater, I admit. Was what I said relevent? Yes, because 'foxhound_fox' was wondering why a loving god would create the law, and why thier would be conseqences for breaking it. If God knew I would screw up why did he create me? God created man 'in his own image'. We are like God in that we have power over our lives. God made humans so that we would decide our fate - with our own free will. God could have made only people who would worship him without a choice... but the key word is 'choice'. We choose weather or not to follow his laws, we choose weather to believe in him or not. But thier are conseqences (as I have stated) laws set in place.
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IronSalamander

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#45 IronSalamander
Member since 2008 • 496 Posts
Just to let all of you know, THIS is what happened to Lucifer. Lucifer was not only an angel, he was the angel in charge of worship. He had instruments built in to him, he was pretty much the worship leader of heaven. Everyone loved Lucifer, and he thought "man, im just as good as God, they should worship me too" when really, God created everyone. no one is better or equal to God, so God cast him and the fallen angels out of heaven and into hell.
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FallofAthens

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#46 FallofAthens
Member since 2008 • 2026 Posts

Just to let all of you know, THIS is what happened to Lucifer. Lucifer was not only an angel, he was the angel in charge of worship. He had instruments built in to him, he was pretty much the worship leader of heaven. Everyone loved Lucifer, and he thought "man, im just as good as God, they should worship me too" when really, God created everyone. no one is better or equal to God, so God cast him and the fallen angels out of heaven and into hell.IronSalamander

I think for the most part people understand that. The question is, if God knows the future and should have known Lucifer would betray him, why create him in the first place only to lead man down a damned path?

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zakkro

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#48 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts
[QUOTE="IronSalamander"]Just to let all of you know, THIS is what happened to Lucifer. Lucifer was not only an angel, he was the angel in charge of worship. He had instruments built in to him, he was pretty much the worship leader of heaven. Everyone loved Lucifer, and he thought "man, im just as good as God, they should worship me too" when really, God created everyone. no one is better or equal to God, so God cast him and the fallen angels out of heaven and into hell.

My professor showed me this documentary with this man who said that one version went like this: God made man after angels and told them to bow down to humans and look after them. Lucifer didn't want to bow to man, for he believed that it's sacrilegious (I don't think that's the best word, though) to worship someone other than God. God then condemned him for not obeying him and then Lucifer was separated from God. Anyways, he loved God. Yeah, weird story.
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gobo212

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#49 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="alphamale1989"] This probably isn't good enough for you but think about it this way: What happens when you break a countries laws? You get punished, if that weren't so then thier would be in justice. Now imagine things from the Christian perspective: God created man and he had rules about how man should live his life, how could a just and perfect God not enforce theser rules? The consequences for breaking the laws of God is death. Thats where the animal sacrifices came in - something had to die as consequence for breaking God's law. (again if thier were no consequences how could God be perfect and just as He claims) But these sacrifices were only temporary, God sent his son Jesus who willingly gave up his life as the final perfect sacrifice for all sin. So God does love us. You've probably already heard that before but thats what we christians believe. I can't answer any more questions because I have to study.... but we do have answeres. (And don't flame me because I cant spell, its late and I admit spelling is my weakest quality.) alphamale1989
That wasn't relevant to what we were discussing. If God knows everything that will ever happen and God created the universe than how can we possibly do anything other than God's will? God created me and God knew long before he created me that I would do action A... How could I do anything else?

I'm a terrible debater, I admit. Was what I said relevent? Yes, because 'foxhound_fox' was wondering why a loving god would create the law, and why thier would be conseqences for breaking it. If God knew I would screw up why did he create me? God created man 'in his own image'. We are like God in that we have power over our lives. God made humans so that we would decide our fate - with our own free will. God could have made only people who would worship him without a choice... but the key word is 'choice'. We choose weather or not to follow his laws, we choose weather to believe in him or not. But thier are conseqences (as I have stated) laws set in place.

But how do I have a choice if God already knows everything I will do? God is making me do what ever I do because God created me and already knows I will sin and turn away from them. Belief in an omniscient creator essentially precludes belief in free will.
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foxhound_fox

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#50 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Lol, can you rephrase that in a more... user friendly manner. I don't understand. Sorry I'm just one of the simple people that don't use words like that. :P

Being serious, yes I do agree with you to an extent.

FallofAthens

The deist and pantheistic definitions of what God is, is... much more ambiguous and non-involving. A deist god most likely created the universe, set it in motion but has no direct involvement and does not interact with any of its components. Like a watch-maker who after creating the watch, only observes it working and doesn't do anything with it afterwards. The pantheistic god is, the universe itself is God and has a more ultimate goal that it is trying to reach and the activities of the select few microscopic humans on our tiny and insignificant planet, don't really have all that great of an effect on anything.

Pantheism relates a lot to the Force philosophy from Star Wars. The Force just exists and is attempting to reach perfect harmony with itself and the actions of those who can use it, mean very little towards that balance (on the cosmic scale). i.e. Anakin "bringing balance to the Force," despite turning to the Darkside, in the end he ended up removing the emperor and most of the Jedi upsetting the balance between light and dark.

I don't want to sound like some crazy evangelist or anything, but we have the choice to repent at any time. Even a convicted criminal was allowed into heaven, simply because he knew Jesus did not deserve execution. harashawn

To say "I'm sorry, that was wrong" for taking the life away from an innocent person unjustly is not a morality I would like to be a part of. For an all-loving being to allow those kinds of things to happen out of "choice" has always made me question the validity of the Christian claims. It makes no rational sense for such a being to allow such things to happen.