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BiancaDK

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#101 BiancaDK
Member since 2008 • 19092 Posts
And tell me...how is it considered loving to forgive a criminal who has killed people (but repented) and allow that person into heaven, yet condemn an otherwise good person to an ETERNITY of suffering because they didn't believe in God? It's crazy...dnuggs40
Its only crazy in the flawed minds of us feeble mortals! Naturally we cannot grasp the logic of God. That is a shortcoming on our part, not Gods part. See how that works?! :P
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Lansdowne5

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#102 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Genia"]He/she/it can love me all he/she/it wants if he/she/it exists. Most of what Ive heard about him/her/it doesnt make me want to love him/her/it back much. Sorry. An all loving all caring god would be nice, but thats just not how god gets portrayed in almost any document, religion or church. I have not found any religious teachings to be particularily (and especially not consistently) moral to be honest and I dont like it/need it. That is all. dnuggs40
By definition, "nice" means "pleasant" or "pleasing". Baring in mind God is a judge, how can a judge be "pleasant" or "pleasing" to the criminal? All loving =/= Nice. All loving = Giving his son up to die on a cross to reverse a mistake which he hadn't even made in the first place.

How do you reverse a mistake that never happened? Either there was something to reverse (he made a mistake), or he just killed his son (himself wtf?) for no reason at all. And tell me...how is it considered loving to forgive a criminal who has killed people (but repented) and allow that person into heaven, yet condemn an otherwise good person to an ETERNITY of suffering because they didn't believe in God? It's crazy...

He didn't make a mistake . . . we did. :roll: You don't get to heaven through works, but through Salvation. And once you're truly saved, you're not going to go round killing people anyway.
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Teenaged

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#103 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts
Besides Lans, even if death penalty still exists in some parts of the worlds, it's not a compliment for those places. On the contrary. People who believe that once "the arm hurts, then we cut off the arm" ie. when a member of society is functioning in a wrong way, then we "terminate" them, should reconsider their ...moral values. ;)
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Lansdowne5

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#104 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Proof? Stoning! Back then stoning weas the trend, but now (for some unknown reason) stoning is not allowed. >__> See? Civilization has actually progressed.Teenaged
Yeeaaahh. That's why the death penalty is still in place in some areas of the world . . . . . .

Did I tell you that I approve of the death penalty? Do you approve of death penalty?

Nope, but you told me civilization has progressed.
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Lansdowne5

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#105 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts
Besides Lans, even if death penalty still exists in some parts of the worlds, it's not a compliment for those places. On the contrary. People who believe that once "the arm hurts, then we cut off the arm" ie. when a member of society is functioning in a wrong way, then we "terminate" them, should reconsider their ...moral values. ;)Teenaged
I don't disagree.
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Teenaged

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#106 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Besides Lans, even if death penalty still exists in some parts of the worlds, it's not a compliment for those places. On the contrary. People who believe that once "the arm hurts, then we cut off the arm" ie. when a member of society is functioning in a wrong way, then we "terminate" them, should reconsider their ...moral values. ;)Lansdowne5
I don't disagree.

So, you dissaprove of stoning people and you believe that those references in the Bible are residues of the then culture of cruel punishment methods...., right?
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dnuggs40

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#107 dnuggs40
Member since 2003 • 10484 Posts
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"] By definition, "nice" means "pleasant" or "pleasing". Baring in mind God is a judge, how can a judge be "pleasant" or "pleasing" to the criminal? All loving =/= Nice. All loving = Giving his son up to die on a cross to reverse a mistake which he hadn't even made in the first place.

How do you reverse a mistake that never happened? Either there was something to reverse (he made a mistake), or he just killed his son (himself wtf?) for no reason at all. And tell me...how is it considered loving to forgive a criminal who has killed people (but repented) and allow that person into heaven, yet condemn an otherwise good person to an ETERNITY of suffering because they didn't believe in God? It's crazy...

He didn't make a mistake . . . we did. :roll: You don't get to heaven through works, but through Salvation. And once you're truly saved, you're not going to go round killing people anyway.

Here is some similarities between Christianity and Islam (and differences). If you actually look at other older religions, you will see similar stories in newer ones as well. http://muslim-canada.org/islam_christianity.html Anyways...he made us and is all knowing and all powerful. So he created something that was prone to this mistake and he had to sacrifice his son in order to correct it.
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dnuggs40

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#108 dnuggs40
Member since 2003 • 10484 Posts
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Besides Lans, even if death penalty still exists in some parts of the worlds, it's not a compliment for those places. On the contrary. People who believe that once "the arm hurts, then we cut off the arm" ie. when a member of society is functioning in a wrong way, then we "terminate" them, should reconsider their ...moral values. ;)Teenaged
I don't disagree.

So, you dissaprove of stoning people and you believe that those references in the Bible are residues of the then culture of cruel punishment methods...., right?

Well said. Our beliefs and values are certainly progressing, and I will give credit where it's due and say religion has been a major force in this progression. I would just hope that instead of believing in religion "as-is", people would start to see it for what it truly is and recognize it's real value.
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Teenaged

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#109 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Besides Lans, even if death penalty still exists in some parts of the worlds, it's not a compliment for those places. On the contrary. People who believe that once "the arm hurts, then we cut off the arm" ie. when a member of society is functioning in a wrong way, then we "terminate" them, should reconsider their ...moral values. ;)Teenaged
I don't disagree.

So, you dissaprove of stoning people and you believe that those references in the Bible are residues of the then culture of cruel punishment methods...., right?

And since you are not answering let me tell you this: Maybe god knew that the Bible would be influenced by the then society and maybe he wants us through progressing to find those mistakes they did and correct them for the sake of Christianity. Maybe god is actually waiting for us to rise above the mistakes of the past generations who most probably mistook some of his teachings (if he ever spoke to them I'm not sure) and take humanity a step forward. Have you ever thought of that?

It's no use closing our eyes and minds to the possibilities about such issues because as all, I am sure that you too want to have the rightest possible explanation to give, to yourself and to others. Bu ruling out everything, so painlessly and so blindfully, may be satisfying at times but it's of no actual avail...

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kemar7856

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#110 kemar7856
Member since 2004 • 11783 Posts
ins't it suppose to be Jesus loves you
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Raged-wolverine

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#111 Raged-wolverine
Member since 2005 • 6075 Posts
I was always told God condemned that kind of loveMonkeyboy_172
same...........but now i know that was total BS..
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BiancaDK

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#112 BiancaDK
Member since 2008 • 19092 Posts
ins't it suppose to be Jesus loves youkemar7856
tomato tomato the 2nd tomato is pronounced differently, as opposed to the 1st mentioned tomato. I just thought you ought to know that.
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Wilfred_Owen

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#114 Wilfred_Owen
Member since 2005 • 20964 Posts
I won't lie. I find that to be a little creepy. I'd prefer to keep our relationship in just the "friend" mode.
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Lansdowne5

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#115 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Besides Lans, even if death penalty still exists in some parts of the worlds, it's not a compliment for those places. On the contrary. People who believe that once "the arm hurts, then we cut off the arm" ie. when a member of society is functioning in a wrong way, then we "terminate" them, should reconsider their ...moral values. ;)Teenaged
I don't disagree.

So, you dissaprove of stoning people and you believe that those references in the Bible are residues of the then culture of cruel punishment methods...., right?

No. At the time that was the way God wanted it. After all, they 'were' under the Old Covenant, whereas we are under the New. :)
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Lansdowne5

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#116 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"] How do you reverse a mistake that never happened? Either there was something to reverse (he made a mistake), or he just killed his son (himself wtf?) for no reason at all. And tell me...how is it considered loving to forgive a criminal who has killed people (but repented) and allow that person into heaven, yet condemn an otherwise good person to an ETERNITY of suffering because they didn't believe in God? It's crazy...

He didn't make a mistake . . . we did. :roll: You don't get to heaven through works, but through Salvation. And once you're truly saved, you're not going to go round killing people anyway.

Here is some similarities between Christianity and Islam (and differences). If you actually look at other older religions, you will see similar stories in newer ones as well. http://muslim-canada.org/islam_christianity.html Anyways...he made us and is all knowing and all powerful. So he created something that was prone to this mistake and he had to sacrifice his son in order to correct it.

Well that's pretty obvious, seeing as Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all Abrahamic religions. You need to go further back if you're going to prove the point. Also, he did indeed make us, and he made us perfect. The imperfection (flaw) was the result of external factor unrelated to an imperfection in the original being. ;)
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Teenaged

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#117 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts
[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"] I don't disagree. Lansdowne5
So, you dissaprove of stoning people and you believe that those references in the Bible are residues of the then culture of cruel punishment methods...., right?

No. At the time that was the way God wanted it. After all, they 'were' under the Old Covenant, whereas we are under the New. :)

Well it wasn't god who told us to not stone people anymore so those decisions were merely decised by humans themsleves rather than the will of god. When a society necesitates that a measure is to be abandoned, it will be abandoned without god's interference, the case being offcourse stoning people, which was necessary to stop, and god was not the one to dictate that, but the people's logics.
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Lansdowne5

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#118 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts

And since you are not answering let me tell you this: Maybe god knew that the Bible would be influenced by the then society and maybe he wants us through progressing to find those mistakes they did and correct them for the sake of Christianity. Maybe god is actually waiting for us to rise above the mistakes of the past generations who most probably mistook some of his teachings (if he ever spoke to them I'm not sure) and take humanity a step forward. Have you ever thought of that?

It's no use closing our eyes and minds to the possibilities about such issues because as all, I am sure that you too want to have the rightest possible explanation to give, to yourself and to others. Bu ruling out everything, so painlessly and so blindfully, may be satisfying at times but it's of no actual avail...

Teenaged

I went out for a while. :) And before I comment, there's just one thing. 'God' has a capital "G", a 'god' does not. When referring to the name of a god, in this case Jehovah, i.e. - God, you always capitalize the first letter.

Maybe God knew that the Bible would be influenced by the then society, but if that is the case we cannot truly consider it "God's Word" and if so we cannot put faith in it because it would be subject to error. If God needed 'us' to correct the mistakes, he would be giving 'us' the authority of His Word, which would mean that the Bible was the result of fallible beings, and was therefore not an inerrant or infallible source. Anyway . . . . where's your basis for that assumption?

Funny, the second paragraph reminds me of Scientists today. Dr. John Polking-horne, president of Queens' College, Cambridge writes, "Men of science can receive from religion a deeper understanding then could be obtained from science alone. The physical world's deep mathematical intelligibility (signs of the Mind bheind ) and finely tuned fruitfulness (expressive of divine purpose) are reflections of the fact that it is a creation." Even Sir Isaac Newton himself believed in the inspiration of Scripture and that no science in the world was better than the attested religion of the Bible.

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Lansdowne5

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#119 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]So, you dissaprove of stoning people and you believe that those references in the Bible are residues of the then culture of cruel punishment methods...., right?Teenaged
No. At the time that was the way God wanted it. After all, they 'were' under the Old Covenant, whereas we are under the New. :)

Well it wasn't god who told us to not stone people anymore so those decisions were merely decised by humans themsleves rather than the will of god. When a society necesitates that a measure is to be abandoned, it will be abandoned without god's interference, the case being offcourse stoning people, which was necessary to stop, and god was not the one to dictate that, but the people's logics.

Ummmm, yes it was. Jesus taught that no one had the right to stone someone unless they themselves were free of sin. He also said - "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." - Matthew 5:38-39 God 'did' tell us to stop stoning people through Jesus. Whether that is why we actually stopped though, is not relevant.
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Teenaged

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#120 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

And since you are not answering let me tell you this: Maybe god knew that the Bible would be influenced by the then society and maybe he wants us through progressing to find those mistakes they did and correct them for the sake of Christianity. Maybe god is actually waiting for us to rise above the mistakes of the past generations who most probably mistook some of his teachings (if he ever spoke to them I'm not sure) and take humanity a step forward. Have you ever thought of that?

It's no use closing our eyes and minds to the possibilities about such issues because as all, I am sure that you too want to have the rightest possible explanation to give, to yourself and to others. Bu ruling out everything, so painlessly and so blindfully, may be satisfying at times but it's of no actual avail...

Lansdowne5

I went out for a while. :) And before I comment, there's just one thing. 'God' has a capital "G", a 'god' does not. When referring to the name of a god, in this case Jehovah, i.e. - God, you always capitalize the first letter.

Maybe God knew that the Bible would be influenced by the then society, but if that is the case we cannot truly consider it "God's Word" and if so we cannot put faith in it because it would be subject to error. If God needed 'us' to correct the mistakes, he would be giving 'us' the authority of His Word, which would mean that the Bible was the result of fallible beings, and was therefore not an inerrant or infallible source. Anyway . . . . where's your basis for that assumption?

Funny, the second paragraph reminds me of Scientists today. Dr. John Polking-horne, president of Queens' College, Cambridge writes, "Men of science can receive from religion a deeper understanding then could be obtained from science alone. The physical world's deep mathematical intelligibility (signs of the Mind bheind ) and finely tuned fruitfulness (expressive of divine purpose) are reflections of the fact that it is a creation." Even Sir Isaac Newton himself believed in the inspiration of Scripture and that no science in the world was better than the attested religion of the Bible.

I will not capitalize something I don't fully accept. :)

But we have enough logic to discern the wise parts from the obsolete. Maybe all people won't agree with which parts are obsolete, but some are pretty obvious like the stoning of people. And before you bring up the argument about how we can't understand god's will, I will say that maybe in that theory we are imperfect but we are not completely ignorant of god and we can surely discern sane from insane. I think that if your god exists then these were some of his gifts to us.

My assumption only comes as a possibility; an alternative and quite plausible explanation, much more compatible than yours.

About the third paragraph, I don't think those scientists were speaking specifically about Christianity but religion as a tradition in general.

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Teenaged

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#121 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"] No. At the time that was the way God wanted it. After all, they 'were' under the Old Covenant, whereas we are under the New. :)Lansdowne5
Well it wasn't god who told us to not stone people anymore so those decisions were merely decised by humans themsleves rather than the will of god. When a society necesitates that a measure is to be abandoned, it will be abandoned without god's interference, the case being offcourse stoning people, which was necessary to stop, and god was not the one to dictate that, but the people's logics.

Ummmm, yes it was. Jesus taught that no one had the right to stone someone unless they themselves were free of sin. He also said - "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." - Matthew 5:38-39 God 'did' tell us to stop stoning people through Jesus. Whether that is why we actually stopped though, is not relevant.

So you yourself prove the point that religion redefines itself when possible. What was valid in the OT is redefined by Jesus. The least we can say is that the OT was heavily influenced by the then society and has many errors and Jesus came to provide with an improved version of it. The imagery of god between the OT and the NT changed significantly and that is just one indications of the above statement. Your god I suppose either changes his mind drastically over such matters (something an omniscient being wouldn't do since it knows the right answer from the beginning), or as I said multiple times he was just imagined by the people of that era to serve the then society.

And offcourse it is relevant why stoning stopped. If it stopped because people's logic demanded so, then it means that people do have a say in what is written in the Bible.

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Deihjan

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#122 Deihjan
Member since 2008 • 30213 Posts
Well, if I don't believe in God, does he still love me?? And my Goddess judges me the day I die...
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silky_smooth8

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#123 silky_smooth8
Member since 2003 • 3659 Posts
god loved me from behind but never called me back :cry:
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dnuggs40

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#124 dnuggs40
Member since 2003 • 10484 Posts

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"] He didn't make a mistake . . . we did. :roll: You don't get to heaven through works, but through Salvation. And once you're truly saved, you're not going to go round killing people anyway.Lansdowne5
Here is some similarities between Christianity and Islam (and differences). If you actually look at other older religions, you will see similar stories in newer ones as well. http://muslim-canada.org/islam_christianity.html Anyways...he made us and is all knowing and all powerful. So he created something that was prone to this mistake and he had to sacrifice his son in order to correct it.

Well that's pretty obvious, seeing as Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all Abrahamic religions. You need to go further back if you're going to prove the point. Also, he did indeed make us, and he made us perfect. The imperfection (flaw) was the result of external factor unrelated to an imperfection in the original being. ;)

What???? lol? He made everything, so whatever "external factor" was also his design, and his mistake. He made everything, nothing is unrelated lol.

Anyways, there are similarities between christianity and other religions, such as the Hindu religion:

http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/a/christianity.htm

Actuallly, with Jesus in particular, the story of a god-prohpet visiting the earth then ascending into heaven is a very common in theme in many religions.

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mindstorm

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#125 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts
God's love cannot be separated from his judgment. Many people try to leave out one of them. God does indeed love humanity, but he hates sin even more... There had to be payment for sin and because of his love, he condemned his Son instead of those who follow and trust him. Jesus, the Son, conquered death and now those who accept the grace of God and repent are able to worship God without the consequence of sin.
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Teenaged

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#126 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

What???? lol? He made everything, so whatever "external factor" was also his design, and his mistake. He made everything, nothing is unrelated lol.

Anyways, there are similarities between christianity and other religions, such as the Hindu religion:

http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/a/christianity.htm

Actuallly, with Jesus in particular, the story of a god-prohpet visiting the earth then ascending into heaven is a very common in theme in many religions.

dnuggs40
I also have heard of the similarities between Christianity and Hinduism. Besides Christianity is not all that original. The sources for it's material are plenty.
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Siofen

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#127 Siofen
Member since 2008 • 987 Posts

Great post! I think I can really testify to this, all through-out my teenage years I've been shut off from god because his preachers are so darned angry, with demeanours that are so condemning, but a couple of months back I was surfing through the television and came across andrew wommack on the daystar network and he was like no other person I've seen, there is not an ounce of anger within him, he is both extraordinarily timid and calm. I want to be like him without an ounch of contempt or wrath, I want to feel the love he has, since he's been able to do so many amazing things with it. Fast forward a couple of months later here I am trying to become a Christian.

I really recommend everyone to tune in to him he's on the daystar network in the mornings, or you can watch his broadcasts online on that website like I do. Even if you're not interested in becoming a Christian, he tells alot of stories from the bible and real life that are very entertaining, I watch them while I draw.

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SpaceMoose

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#128 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
I'm turned off to it because the religion as a whole doesn't even make any sense. "I need to have my 'son' die a terrible death so that I am able to forgive the sins of beings I created. Why can't I forgive them otherwise? Uh, just because, okay? How am I not responsible for their decisions in the first place anyway when I supposedly created their brains and the environment which affects their decisions? Um, 'free will,' whatever that means. Look, I can do miracles. It just happens that I'm not going to do any of them in the era of recordable media. Huzzah!"
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blackacidevil96

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#129 blackacidevil96
Member since 2006 • 3855 Posts

while im sure this thread will inevitably turn bad.

that was a good first post. congrats. so far the only religious thread ive seen that started off by making sense and not flaming.

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joao_22990

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#130 joao_22990
Member since 2007 • 2230 Posts
Well i love everyone as well, and no one seems to worship me. It's stupid that people can only find that love in god when it's everywhere.
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Silenthps

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#131 Silenthps
Member since 2006 • 7302 Posts


Go ahead, call me an ass, I won't take it personally because I know that I am morally superior to God.

God is all powerful. Omnipotent. He controls everything and sees everything, past present and future. For him to consciously allow Satan to exist and prevent people from coming to him in his divine realm by not making his teachings incredibly obvious... is to completely go against the definition of benevolence and all-loving.

I don't need God to make a choice. I never needed God to live a morally just and fulfilling life. If God wants me to worship him, he better make his presence a little more obvious and give me a reason to kneel down and kiss his feet... because so far, I'm not convinced.

If this topic is purely about evangelising, expect a lock.foxhound_fox
Don't you dare even think about calling yourself morally superior to God. God is sinless, holy ,perfect, just, all loving and merciful. Infact, the reason your alive right now is due to his mercy. Saying your morally superior to God is like saying Joseph Stalin is morally superior to the average human because he show's compassion towards Hitler Of course an evil person is gonna say to another evil person, "I wouldn't send that evil person to eternal torment" Because then they would be admitting that they would send themselves to eternal torment. We as evil people, have no right to judge other evil people, cause we ourselves are evil. But God is good and is perfect and is just. Every time you sin, you offend the Most High. A God who always loves you with an infinite everlasting love. A God who gave you life, shows you mercy and grace. A God who does no bad, only good. A God who is perfectly innocent and deserves perfect obedience. To offend such a beautiful and perfect being deserves the most severe of punishment. You are scum compared to him. All your good works are like filthy rags to him. You should praise him for every breath you take yet instead you rebel against him and hate him without a cause. He's allowing Satan to live to display his mercy and grace. He allows all evil to exist to display his mercy and grace. Why? Because EVERYTHING that God is about is to display his own glory. Do you really want him to destroy Satan along with all the evil beings of the world? Well then you would be asking him to destroy you. And believe me, he'll do it, unless you repent and believe in his son. It's funny how your post lines up with Romans 1:18 in the same fashion

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Rom 1:19 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them.

Rom 1:20 For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

Rom 1:21 Because, knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, neither were thankful. But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools

Rom 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.

Rom 1:25 For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Rom 1:26 For this cause, God gave them up to dishonorable affections. For even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right,

First you call God an ass, which proves that you hate him and your suppressing the truth about him with your unrighteousness. Next you imply that God doesn't make himself obvious yet he clearly makes himself obvious through his creation. You act as though you think your wise but make yourself out to be a fool with your complete lack of knowledge about the God your bashing. And to top it off, you say that you don't need God. Which is a lie because without God you don't exist.

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SavageM2

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#132 SavageM2
Member since 2005 • 10800 Posts
I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors, but I think that God's got a sick sense of humor, and when I die I expect to find him laughing.
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Silenthps

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#133 Silenthps
Member since 2006 • 7302 Posts

I'm turned off to it because the religion as a whole doesn't even make any sense. "I need to have my 'son' die a terrible death so that I am able to forgive the sins of beings I created. Why can't I forgive them otherwise? Uh, just because, okay? How am I not responsible for their decisions in the first place anyway when I supposedly created their brains and the environment which affects their decisions? Um, 'free will,' whatever that means. Look, I can do miracles. It just happens that I'm not going to do any of them in the era of recordable media. Huzzah!"SpaceMoose

Somewhere in Psalms it says "those who justify the wicked are an abomination" Thats why he can't forgive sins. If he justifies us, he would be an abomination. So he sent his son to suffer the punishment for our sins so that his Justice can be satisfied. He's not responsible because he gave us free will. And miracles do happen and quite frequently today. The recordable media is too hardpressed about the whole freedom of religion thing to show them. Try going to a local church.

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maheo30

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#134 maheo30
Member since 2006 • 5102 Posts
[QUOTE="IronSalamander"]

I think thats why people are so turned off about Christians today, the majority preach "do this do that or your going to hell" when really its nothing like that. God just straight up wants a relationship with you.

If you love to play video games for hours, God loves you the same.

If you like to wind down after a hard day of work with a beer or two, God loves you the same.

If you enjoy smoking, God loves you the same.

If you cuss during regular conversation, God loves you the same.

Hell, I skipped school and got high as a kite today, God still loves me.

I think if people stopped trying to prove their worth to God, if they stopped trying to impress Him, our lives would be so much better.

Discuss.

That makes no theological sense. But it sure eases the conscience. That would make God's love unjust and since He is perfect He isn't unjust. Also, any christian who says you have to do this or that doesn't know what christianity is. In other words, they aren't christians.
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Sam_Fisher_932

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#135 Sam_Fisher_932
Member since 2004 • 1148 Posts
If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...SavageM2
God isn't sending anyone to hell. The people who chose to reject God and live a sinful life are sending themselves to hell by their lifestyle. There'a good quote from a book I know where it says, "There are two kinds of people in this world: those who, in the end, say, 'Thy will be done' (to God) and those who, in the end, God says to them, 'Thy will be done'". People send themselves to Hell, not God. God gives everyone a chance to follow Him and not go to Hell, but if they refuse, God accepts their decision.
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SpaceMoose

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#136 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
Somewhere in Psalms it says "those who justify the wicked are an abomination" Thats why he can't forgive sins. If he justifies us, he would be an abomination. So he sent his son to suffer the punishment for our sins so that his Justice can be satisfied. He's not responsible because he gave us free will. And miracles do happen and quite frequently today. The recordable media is too hardpressed about the whole freedom of religion thing to show them. Try going to a local church.

Silenthps

Oh, the church has some videos of miracles, do they? Gee, one of these priests should post their miracles on YouTube, and an image of "the virgin Mary" on a piece of toast isn't a miracle. Someone getting sick and then getting better despite a doctor saying their chances were slim and then attributing it to God is not a miracle. If someone falls 500 feet onto concrete and doesn't get injured, maybe that is a miracle.

Anyway...what do you mean "free will"? I'm so tired of hearing about "free will" in the context of religion because the entire concept doesn't even make sense. Your decisions come from somewhere. Most people would say they come from your brain. The brain makes decisions, but the brain does not get to decide the way the brain functions in the first place. That sort of circular reasoning makes no sense.

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Sam_Fisher_932

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#137 Sam_Fisher_932
Member since 2004 • 1148 Posts
[QUOTE="harashawn"]Why would God destroy his own creation?

It would be like killing your child because (s)he tricks other children into making mistakes.

foxhound_fox

Because to condemn people to an eternity of relentless torture for finite mistakes is morally unjust?

But don't you think God couldn't be called a Just God if he let people like Hitler or Saddam or Stalin into heaven? You think they deserve eternal bliss and happiness after all they did? God would not be a Just God if he allowed that.
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maheo30

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#138 maheo30
Member since 2006 • 5102 Posts

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]I'm turned off to it because the religion as a whole doesn't even make any sense. "I need to have my 'son' die a terrible death so that I am able to forgive the sins of beings I created. Why can't I forgive them otherwise? Uh, just because, okay? How am I not responsible for their decisions in the first place anyway when I supposedly created their brains and the environment which affects their decisions? Um, 'free will,' whatever that means. Look, I can do miracles. It just happens that I'm not going to do any of them in the era of recordable media. Huzzah!"Silenthps

Somewhere in Psalms it says "those who justify the wicked are an abomination" Thats why he can't forgive sins. If he justifies us, he would be an abomination. So he sent his son to suffer the punishment for our sins so that his Justice can be satisfied. He's not responsible because he gave us free will. And miracles do happen and quite frequently today. The recordable media is too hardpressed about the whole freedom of religion thing to show them. Try going to a local church.

I think the verse you are looking for is Proverbs 17:15,

15He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Powerful verse. It is the theme of the whole bible. How can the perfect Judge of all the earth pardon wicked men and still be just? God cannot just forgive. If a man rapes a woman we would be enraged if an earthly judge forgave the rapist because he says, "I am a very loving judge. Therefore I'm pardoning you. You are now free to go." That judge would be kicked off of the bench. Why would we expect something different from God who is perfect.

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skelebull3000

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#139 skelebull3000
Member since 2004 • 2724 Posts
Can an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omnipresent being feel "love"? That's an interesting question :P
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Silenthps

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#140 Silenthps
Member since 2006 • 7302 Posts
[QUOTE="Silenthps"]Somewhere in Psalms it says "those who justify the wicked are an abomination" Thats why he can't forgive sins. If he justifies us, he would be an abomination. So he sent his son to suffer the punishment for our sins so that his Justice can be satisfied. He's not responsible because he gave us free will. And miracles do happen and quite frequently today. The recordable media is too hardpressed about the whole freedom of religion thing to show them. Try going to a local church.

SpaceMoose

Oh, the church has some videos of miracles, do they? Gee, one of these priests should post their miracles on YouTube, and an image of "the virgin Mary" on a piece of toast isn't a miracle. Someone getting sick and then getting better despite a doctor saying their chances were slim and then attributing it to God is not a miracle. If someone falls 500 feet onto concrete and doesn't get injured, maybe that is a miracle.

Anyway...what do you mean "free will"? I'm so tired of hearing about "free will" in the context of religion because the entire concept doesn't even make sense. Your decisions come from somewhere. Most people would say they come from your brain. The brain makes decisions, but the brain does not get to decide the way the brain functions in the first place. That sort of circular reasoning makes no sense.

Having them on video won't do any good anyways since there's always a way to counterfeit miracles. But no I'm talking about lay your hands on a person and they are instantly healed kind of miracles. Well there's 2 points of view. There's a Naturalistic point of view that says that everything we do is controlled by our brains so anything we do is just chemical reactions happening in our brains which pretty much means Good and Evil doesn't exist. Then there's a view that we have an immaterial conscience in us and that we are responsible for anything we do and I guess that would be considered free will.
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Silenthps

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#141 Silenthps
Member since 2006 • 7302 Posts
[QUOTE="Silenthps"]

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]I'm turned off to it because the religion as a whole doesn't even make any sense. "I need to have my 'son' die a terrible death so that I am able to forgive the sins of beings I created. Why can't I forgive them otherwise? Uh, just because, okay? How am I not responsible for their decisions in the first place anyway when I supposedly created their brains and the environment which affects their decisions? Um, 'free will,' whatever that means. Look, I can do miracles. It just happens that I'm not going to do any of them in the era of recordable media. Huzzah!"maheo30

Somewhere in Psalms it says "those who justify the wicked are an abomination" Thats why he can't forgive sins. If he justifies us, he would be an abomination. So he sent his son to suffer the punishment for our sins so that his Justice can be satisfied. He's not responsible because he gave us free will. And miracles do happen and quite frequently today. The recordable media is too hardpressed about the whole freedom of religion thing to show them. Try going to a local church.

I think the verse you are looking for is Proverbs 17:15,

15He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Powerful verse. It is the theme of the whole bible. How can the perfect Judge of all the earth pardon wicked men and still be just? God cannot just forgive. If a man rapes a woman we would be enraged if an earthly judge forgave the rapist because he says, "I am a very loving judge. Therefore I'm pardoning you. You are now free to go." That judge would be kicked off of the bench. Why would we expect something different from God who is perfect.

Thank ;) well atleast i got the P right :p
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SpaceMoose

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#142 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
Having them on video won't do any good anyways since there's always a way to counterfeit miracles. But no I'm talking about lay your hands on a person and they are instantly healed kind of miracles. Well there's 2 points of view. There's a Naturalistic point of view that says that everything we do is controlled by our brains so anything we do is just chemical reactions happening in our brains which pretty much means Good and Evil doesn't exist. Then there's a view that we have an immaterial conscience in us and that we are responsible for anything we do and I guess that would be considered free will.Silenthps
And the way that this "immaterial conscience" functions is determined by what?
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Stranger_4

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#143 Stranger_4
Member since 2009 • 752 Posts

Does God love me? Well ya I think. Does He love me as much as He loves good looking men? I really have a hard time believing that!

And even in religious scriptures, it never says that God equally loves everyone does it?

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ShotGunBunny

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#144 ShotGunBunny
Member since 2004 • 2184 Posts
Just want to say, out of all those things, He doesnt approve of smoking a joint, since its illegal, but he still loves me. Doesnt love that I did it, but whatever, its all in the past now, He aint lookin back.IronSalamander


You really want to believe that, don't you?
Oh what the hell, why am I even trying to argue here, most people who think like that are too stubborn anyways.
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FamiBox

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#145 FamiBox
Member since 2007 • 5481 Posts
I would say something in this thread but I tend to get moderated for any opinions I express on religion and I don't really want to get suspended again.
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Mike-uk

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#146 Mike-uk
Member since 2008 • 2088 Posts

I think thats why people are so turned off about Christians today, the majority preach "do this do that or your going to hell" when really its nothing like that. God just straight up wants a relationship with you.

If you love to play video games for hours, God loves you the same.

If you like to wind down after a hard day of work with a beer or two, God loves you the same.

If you enjoy smoking, God loves you the same.

If you cuss during regular conversation, God loves you the same.

Hell, I skipped school and got high as a kite today, God still loves me.

I think if people stopped trying to prove their worth to God, if they stopped trying to impress Him, our lives would be so much better.

Discuss.

IronSalamander
Well maybe me and God can hang out for a while then if he still loves me while i play video games, ill tell him to come to my place and put out some chips and dip and me and him could play some halo until the wee hours of the morning.
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TormentedHero

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#147 TormentedHero
Member since 2009 • 661 Posts
God loves me and I love God. I do not see how anyone could not love him.
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Mike-uk

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#148 Mike-uk
Member since 2008 • 2088 Posts
God loves me and I love God. I do not see how anyone could not love him.TormentedHero
Well some people dont believe in God, which means they dont love him.
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Bourbons3

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#149 Bourbons3
Member since 2003 • 24238 Posts
Actually, I think he wants me dead, which is a bit off-putting.
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#150 tktomo01
Member since 2008 • 1476 Posts
[QUOTE="SavageM2"]If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...IronSalamander
He doesn't send anyone, people choose to go there. Take a look at it, if you God gives you free will to do what he wants, people are gonna do their own stuff. God just says "have a relationship with me, and you can go to heaven and be with me, cuz i love you so much" As long as you try, its all good.

Exactly. Its like with parents (after all, he is our Father), if the kid does something wrong, if the parent loves that child, the parent will punish the child, for his/her own good. You choose to go to heaven or hell not God.