If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...SavageM2This. Srsly.
God Loves You
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="FallofAthens"]Lol, can you rephrase that in a more... user friendly manner. I don't understand. Sorry I'm just one of the simple people that don't use words like that. :PBeing serious, yes I do agree with you to an extent.
foxhound_fox
The deist and pantheistic definitions of what God is, is... much more ambiguous and non-involving. A deist god most likely created the universe, set it in motion but has no direct involvement and does not interact with any of its components. Like a watch-maker who after creating the watch, only observes it working and doesn't do anything with it afterwards. The pantheistic god is, the universe itself is God and has a more ultimate goal that it is trying to reach and the activities of the select few microscopic humans on our tiny and insignificant planet, don't really have all that great of an effect on anything.
Pantheism relates a lot to the Force philosophy from Star Wars. The Force just exists and is attempting to reach perfect harmony with itself and the actions of those who can use it, mean very little towards that balance (on the cosmic scale). i.e. Anakin "bringing balance to the Force," despite turning to the Darkside, in the end he ended up removing the emperor and most of the Jedi upsetting the balance between light and dark.
I don't want to sound like some crazy evangelist or anything, but we have the choice to repent at any time. Even a convicted criminal was allowed into heaven, simply because he knew Jesus did not deserve execution. harashawn
To say "I'm sorry, that was wrong" for taking the life away from an innocent person unjustly is not a morality I would like to be a part of. For an all-loving being to allow those kinds of things to happen out of "choice" has always made me question the validity of the Christian claims. It makes no rational sense for such a being to allow such things to happen.
Ah, thanks for explaining. Explaining it in Star Wars terms helps. Hmm, interesting points. It does seem likely that a God would be one of those two, more than a monotheistic one. When I read the Bible it does seem like it can be quite contradicting of itself at times which really puts some doubt in my mind. May be something I'll touch up on this week.
As you can tell I'm not the most inclined to the philosophy of religion and that sort of stuff. :P
Ah, thanks for explaining. Explaining it in Star Wars terms helps. Hmm, interesting points. It does seem likely that a God would be one of those two, more than a monotheistic one. When I read the Bible it does seem like it can be quite contradicting of itself at times which really puts some doubt in my mind. May be something I'll touch up on this week.As you can tell I'm not the most inclined to the philosophy of religion and that sort of stuff. :P
FallofAthens
Hehe, I knew the Star Wars explanation would work. I actually quite enjoy using Star Wars to explain things, it actually has a lot of things in it philosophically that are quite applicable to many things in reality. Since of course, it is based off a lot of things in reality, especially esoteric thought when it comes to things metaphysical.
If the Bible were truly the word of God, it would be perfect and without error. Its moral lessons would transcend time and all of them would be applicable from the day they were written down until the end of time. They would also exist in all religious texts around the world, in all religions, and propose all the exact same things. Obviously this is not the case and the most likely explanation is that the Bible was written by man, again most likely without the influence of a divine being... given most of the moral guidelines being applicable mostly to the time they were written.
I personally don't like the deist or pantheistic explanations because they feel like a complete cop-out. If there is a God and he doesn't really care what we do, what's the point in believing in him? If his plan is working and we are doing what we should according to that plan, we shouldn't need to worship him and he shouldn't need our worship.
The question I always have is why does there even need to be a divinity that created and/or controls the universe? Why can the universe not come about naturally through the forces of nature and we exist purely for the beauty that is nature? The universe is a beautiful place... why not be thankful it is here and gave us the chance to ever exist... from a non-sentient perspective?
[QUOTE="alphamale1989"][QUOTE="gobo212"] That wasn't relevant to what we were discussing. If God knows everything that will ever happen and God created the universe than how can we possibly do anything other than God's will? God created me and God knew long before he created me that I would do action A... How could I do anything else?gobo212I'm a terrible debater, I admit. Was what I said relevent? Yes, because 'foxhound_fox' was wondering why a loving god would create the law, and why thier would be conseqences for breaking it. If God knew I would screw up why did he create me? God created man 'in his own image'. We are like God in that we have power over our lives. God made humans so that we would decide our fate - with our own free will. God could have made only people who would worship him without a choice... but the key word is 'choice'. We choose weather or not to follow his laws, we choose weather to believe in him or not. But thier are conseqences (as I have stated) laws set in place. But how do I have a choice if God already knows everything I will do? God is making me do what ever I do because God created me and already knows I will sin and turn away from them. Belief in an omniscient creator essentially precludes belief in free will. It is my undertanding that that just because God knows whats going to happen, doesn't mean that he is controling it. He knows how events will unfold, but he created each of us as a being that would decide things for itself. Your decisions to post on this forum, to eat (or not eat) whatever it is you ate for supper yesterday were not influenced by the fact that God knew you were going to make those choices. I feel like I am repeating myself... I guess I can't see how "belief in an omnicent creator precludes belief in free will".
Just want to say, out of all those things, He doesnt approve of smoking a joint, since its illegal, but he still loves me. Doesnt love that I did it, but whatever, its all in the past now, He aint lookin back.IronSalamanderThat's not illegal everywhere. So are you saying God judges people by the laws of the countries they live in? Get real. :roll:
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="VENOM192"]God did create the universe but not hell, Satan created hell and is celebrating to any1 that ends up with him in there and sadly enough is that he is celebrating everyday.FallofAthens
Oh how I love this...
God created everything in the universe. He created all of his angels. Lucifer was among those angels. He want against God's will and was cast out of heaven. Satan may have created Hell but God created Satan... and allows him to continue to exist despite him tempting humanity into sinning and stealing their souls from God's divine paradise.
God's an ass.
I'll admit, that's something I question as well and doesn't make much sense.
Stories that were made up by ancient man usually don't make sense.
It is my undertanding that that just because God knows whats going to happen, doesn't mean that he is controling it. He knows how events will unfold, but he created each of us as a being that would decide things for itself. Your decisions to post on this forum, to eat (or not eat) whatever it is you ate for supper yesterday were not influenced by the fact that God knew you were going to make those choices. I feel like I am repeating myself... I guess I can't see how "belief in an omnicent creator precludes belief in free will".alphamale1989
But God created everything and is omnipotent... which by definition means he controls everything. The God of the Bible, especially that of the Old Testament, more resembles a human being that he does an actual omnipotent/omniscient being. He, unlike his namesake, is fallible.
To be omniscient; to know everything that has happened, is happening and will happen, in concordance to being all powerful (omnipotent) and the creator of everything... makes the existence of free will among anything within that creation a complete paradox. It contradicts what it means to have an omniscient creator that knows and controls everything through absolute power.
[QUOTE="IronSalamander"]Just want to say, out of all those things, He doesnt approve of smoking a joint, since its illegal, but he still loves me. Doesnt love that I did it, but whatever, its all in the past now, He aint lookin back.Thread_DerailerThat's not illegal everywhere. So are you saying God judges people by the laws of the countries they live in? Get real. :roll: I love it how you get down on people without doing your own research! its one of Gods commands to his people to follow their governments rules, thus if you break a law like that, its not good. nice. im laughing.
I love it how you get down on people without doing your own research! its one of Gods commands to his people to follow their governments rules, thus if you break a law like that, its not good. nice. im laughing.IronSalamander
Book, chapter and line please. Non-King James version.
If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...SavageM2What would you do if you loved somebody and they really did NOT care, and spent all their time trying to deny your existence?
Hehe, I knew the Star Wars explanation would work. I actually quite enjoy using Star Wars to explain things, it actually has a lot of things in it philosophically that are quite applicable to many things in reality. Since of course, it is based off a lot of things in reality, especially esoteric thought when it comes to things metaphysical.
If the Bible were truly the word of God, it would be perfect and without error. Its moral lessons would transcend time and all of them would be applicable from the day they were written down until the end of time. They would also exist in all religious texts around the world, in all religions, and propose all the exact same things. Obviously this is not the case and the most likely explanation is that the Bible was written by man, again most likely without the influence of a divine being... given most of the moral guidelines being applicable mostly to the time they were written.
I personally don't like the deist or pantheistic explanations because they feel like a complete cop-out. If there is a God and he doesn't really care what we do, what's the point in believing in him? If his plan is working and we are doing what we should according to that plan, we shouldn't need to worship him and he shouldn't need our worship.
The question I always have is why does there even need to be a divinity that created and/or controls the universe? Why can the universe not come about naturally through the forces of nature and we exist purely for the beauty that is nature? The universe is a beautiful place... why not be thankful it is here and gave us the chance to ever exist... from a non-sentient perspective?foxhound_fox
Hey wow, this is the most beautiful post I have ever read on a gaming forum. Even though we disagree on the death penalty, I gotta say you're one smart dude. I should show your post to my family. They could use some clear, logical explanations like this,as to why their God is not real. I try to tell them all the time but they think I'm evil for not believing. :P
[QUOTE="FallofAthens"]Ah, thanks for explaining. Explaining it in Star Wars terms helps. Hmm, interesting points. It does seem likely that a God would be one of those two, more than a monotheistic one. When I read the Bible it does seem like it can be quite contradicting of itself at times which really puts some doubt in my mind. May be something I'll touch up on this week.As you can tell I'm not the most inclined to the philosophy of religion and that sort of stuff. :P
foxhound_fox
Hehe, I knew the Star Wars explanation would work. I actually quite enjoy using Star Wars to explain things, it actually has a lot of things in it philosophically that are quite applicable to many things in reality. Since of course, it is based off a lot of things in reality, especially esoteric thought when it comes to things metaphysical.
If the Bible were truly the word of God, it would be perfect and without error. Its moral lessons would transcend time and all of them would be applicable from the day they were written down until the end of time. They would also exist in all religious texts around the world, in all religions, and propose all the exact same things. Obviously this is not the case and the most likely explanation is that the Bible was written by man, again most likely without the influence of a divine being... given most of the moral guidelines being applicable mostly to the time they were written.
I personally don't like the deist or pantheistic explanations because they feel like a complete cop-out. If there is a God and he doesn't really care what we do, what's the point in believing in him? If his plan is working and we are doing what we should according to that plan, we shouldn't need to worship him and he shouldn't need our worship.
The question I always have is why does there even need to be a divinity that created and/or controls the universe? Why can the universe not come about naturally through the forces of nature and we exist purely for the beauty that is nature? The universe is a beautiful place... why not be thankful it is here and gave us the chance to ever exist... from a non-sentient perspective?
Yeah, Star Wars is brilliant. Has got to be my favorite series. They need a book or some kind guide that explains life in Star Wars terms; I'd use that every day, lol.
It would seem that way, yes. But I suppose if God-- is in fact God, his prowess and understanding would be far more greater than that of man, so supposedly we could never grasp the decisions God makes and understand those decisions would be impossible. These imperfections the Bible repersent are only what we see because we could never comprhended them. I'm sure you have a viable come back to what I have said, Just throwing thoughts out there. :P Buy for your last sentence, it does seem like the bible doesn't fit very well into a modern day society.
No arguement from me on the Pantheistic and deist paragraph. What you said makes sense to me.
I suppose their really doesn't need to be one. It just, for me, makes more sense that a God created us than of natural occourance. Course I have nothing to back that claim and I know thats a rather emotional appeal. But what you said is possible.I'm usually like that; having this "I'm here aren't I?" mentalitiy that I just want to live the life I have without a need to question, why. In most situations I don't ask the 'why' and 'how' I've come to be, but just enjoy it for what its worth.
[QUOTE="Thread_Derailer"][QUOTE="IronSalamander"]Just want to say, out of all those things, He doesnt approve of smoking a joint, since its illegal, but he still loves me. Doesnt love that I did it, but whatever, its all in the past now, He aint lookin back.IronSalamanderThat's not illegal everywhere. So are you saying God judges people by the laws of the countries they live in? Get real. :roll: I love it how you get down on people without doing your own research! its one of Gods commands to his people to follow their governments rules, thus if you break a law like that, its not good. nice. im laughing. You think God cares about the laws of the land? You think God would judge a pothead in America differently than a pothead in Spain where pot is legal? Is that something a fair and just God would do? Serious?
[QUOTE="IronSalamander"]I love it how you get down on people without doing your own research! its one of Gods commands to his people to follow their governments rules, thus if you break a law like that, its not good. nice. im laughing.foxhound_fox
Book, chapter and line please. Non-King James version. Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."
Hey wow, this is the most beautiful post I have ever read on a gaming forum. Even though we disagree on the death penalty, I gotta say you're one smart dude. I should show your post to my family. They could use some clear, logical explanations like this,as to why their God is not real. I try to tell them all the time but they think I'm evil for not believing. :PThread_Derailer
Admittedly, I kind of paraphrased this part from something Matt Dillahunty said...
"If the Bible were truly the word of God, it would be perfect and without error. Its moral lessons would transcend time and all of them would be applicable from the day they were written down until the end of time. They would also exist in all religious texts around the world, in all religions, and propose all the exact same things. Obviously this is not the case and the most likely explanation is that the Bible was written by man, again most likely without the influence of a divine being... given most of the moral guidelines being applicable mostly to the time they were written."
Granted, I expanded on it, I should still give him credit.
God isn't necessarily fake or non-existent... it is just the evidence we have to support his/her/its existence is itself non-existent. There is no tangible, verifiable or observable reason to believe that a being defined by any religion that in any way resembles a "God" or gods exists at all and has any influence on anything in our universe. All religious "proofs" or philosophical arguments in support of a God or gods tend to use assumptions or baseless claims as their evidence and end up just refuting themselves. I'd be glad to follow a religion... all they have to do is prove it is actually right first.
It would seem that way, yes. But I suppose if God-- is in fact God, his prowess and understanding would be far more greater than that of man, so supposedly we could never grasp the decisions God makes and understand those decisions would be impossible. FallofAthensThen why worship him.
These imperfections the Bible repersent are only what we see because we could never comprhended them. I'm sure you have a viable come back to what I have said, Just throwing thoughts out there. :P FallofAthensSoon enough logic will wash away the illogicality of ancient, baseless beliefs. Free-thinkers will eventually think their way through the tangled web of fibs that theology has woven over the centuries, and soon enough it won't have a leg left to stand on. I can't wait for that day.
[QUOTE="FallofAthens"] It would seem that way, yes. But I suppose if God-- is in fact God, his prowess and understanding would be far more greater than that of man, so supposedly we could never grasp the decisions God makes and understand those decisions would be impossible. Thread_DerailerThen why worship him.
These imperfections the Bible repersent are only what we see because we could never comprhended them. I'm sure you have a viable come back to what I have said, Just throwing thoughts out there. :P FallofAthensSoon enough logic will wash away the illogicality of ancient, baseless beliefs. Free-thinkers will eventually think their way through the tangled web of fibs that theology has woven over the centuries, and soon enough it won't have a leg left to stand on. I can't wait for that day.
Only time will tell.;)
[QUOTE="SavageM2"]If God truly loved everyone I don't think he/she would send anyone to hell...thequietguyWhat would you do if you loved somebody and they really did NOT care, and spent all their time trying to deny your existence? Well I wouldn't make a place for them to burn for all eternity. (but that doesn't matter seeing as I am not God...Who is supposedly all knowing and should see these things coming) If you truly loved them would you want them to burn in hell for all eternity? Wouldn't you give them more to believe in then just a few old books? And to hell with them if they don't believe!! Anyway, I hardly see not having faith/believing to be "spending ALL of there time trying to deny (s)he's existence..."?
[QUOTE="alphamale1989"]It is my undertanding that that just because God knows whats going to happen, doesn't mean that he is controling it. He knows how events will unfold, but he created each of us as a being that would decide things for itself. Your decisions to post on this forum, to eat (or not eat) whatever it is you ate for supper yesterday were not influenced by the fact that God knew you were going to make those choices. I feel like I am repeating myself... I guess I can't see how "belief in an omnicent creator precludes belief in free will".foxhound_fox
But God created everything and is omnipotent... which by definition means he controls everything. The God of the Bible, especially that of the Old Testament, more resembles a human being that he does an actual omnipotent/omniscient being. He, unlike his namesake, is fallible.
To be omniscient; to know everything that has happened, is happening and will happen, in concordance to being all powerful (omnipotent) and the creator of everything... makes the existence of free will among anything within that creation a complete paradox. It contradicts what it means to have an omniscient creator that knows and controls everything through absolute power. Thank you for being more eloquent than I am.
Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."IronSalamander
This assuming that those institutions were established by God. What of a legal authority that contradicts or goes against a teaching of God?
Further on: 4-5
"But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience."
Isn't wrath a deadly sin? I thought Jesus taught to forgive and turn the other cheek? Why is it the duty of the government to bring wrath upon the wrongdoer when God is the almighty authority?
Lucifer was not a fallen angel, he isnt an angel, he is a demon/spirit created out of fire. Angels dont have free will, all they do is obey god and thats all, they cant disobey god cause they cant. while satan had free will thus disobeying gods orders.
Dont go attacking me now, thats my opinion and il be interested to see what my fellow christians have to say. Atheists dont bother.
i thought Lucifer was peeing god off with his free will and not doing everything he is told, so he was banished?? or is that just 1 stem of a beliefe system. i dont know because Christians seem to twist and change passages from the bible and its teachings to suite the situation:|Lucifer was not a fallen angel, he isnt an angel, he is a demon/spirit created out of fire. Angels dont have free will, all they do is obey god and thats all, they cant disobey god cause they cant. while satan had free will thus disobeying gods orders.
Dont go attacking me now, thats my opinion and il be interested to see what my fellow christians have to say. Atheists dont bother.
Joker_268
[QUOTE="Joker_268"]i thought Lucifer was peeing god off with his free will and not doing everything he is told, so he was banished?? or is that just 1 stem of a beliefe system. i dont know because Christians seem to twist and change passages from the bible and its teachings to suite the situation:| He got banished out of heaven because he did not bow down to Adam, so satan disobeyed and was told by god to leave and go into hell. Satan said ''grant me till the end of time, so i can trick/deceive (adam's) descendants into hell'', god granted him till the end of time. god said ''but you will not deceive those who believe in me''Lucifer was not a fallen angel, he isnt an angel, he is a demon/spirit created out of fire. Angels dont have free will, all they do is obey god and thats all, they cant disobey god cause they cant. while satan had free will thus disobeying gods orders.
Dont go attacking me now, thats my opinion and il be interested to see what my fellow christians have to say. Atheists dont bother.
sAndroid17
Just want to say, out of all those things, He doesnt approve of smoking a joint, since its illegal, but he still loves me. Doesnt love that I did it, but whatever, its all in the past now, He aint lookin back.IronSalamanderJust a few things. While we 'are' instructed by God to obey our government's laws . . . . . our body is also a temple of the Holy Spirit, and thus we should honor God with it in everything we do . . . . which cannot be done by smoking joints. And while it is true God 'will' always forgive us if we are truly sorry, we must commit to Him by turning from our old sinful ways. :) Verses for reflection: Government Law - "Obey the king's command, I say, because you took an oath before God." - Ecclesiastes 8:2 "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities" - Romans 13:1 "Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient" - Titus 3:1 Turning From Our Sinful Ways - "So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him." - 2 Peter 3:14 "Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." - 1 Peter 5:8 "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 "No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other." - Luke 16:13
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="IronSalamander"]I love it how you get down on people without doing your own research! its one of Gods commands to his people to follow their governments rules, thus if you break a law like that, its not good. nice. im laughing.IronSalamander
Book, chapter and line please. Non-King James version. Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."
So all existing goverments were established by God and their laws obeyed as his word? Nazi Germany, North Korea, Iran, Mao China, and the many other goverments all through history which caused atrocities on mass scales were all established by god and the people of those countries should not have questioned their goverment and just follow? Gee God...thanks!
The more you read from the Bible, the more I can't believe people believe in it's non-sense. There are so many holes in it and contradictions is insane to believe in the bible literally.
What I can't understand is why people are unable to see what the Bible (all religious documents and beliefs for that matter) really represents...which is part of the spiritual evolution and the progression of knowledge and understanding that people have been trying to gain through the ages. It's served it's purpose...but it's really time to move on. Learn what you can from it, understand our history and our journey through the ages, but move on already!
So all existing goverments were established by God and their laws obeyed as his word? Nazi Germany, North Korea, Iran, Mao China, and the many other goverments all through history which caused atrocities on mass scales were all established by god and the people of those countries should not have questioned their goverment and just follow? Gee God...thanks!
The more you read from the Bible, the more I can't believe people believe in it's non-sense. There are so many holes in it and contradictions is insane to believe in the bible literally.
What I can't understand is why people are unable to see what the Bible (all religious documents and beliefs for that matter) really represents...which is part of the spiritual evolution and the progression of knowledge and understanding that people have been trying to gain through the ages. It's served it's purpose...but it's really time to move on. Learn what you can from it, understand our history and our journey through the ages, but move on already!
dnuggs40
I'm intrigued, you claim that the Bible (and in fact EVERY religious document) is just the understanding of people who lived at the time of its writing. Where's your proof? Why must we move on? What is so totally wrong in every religious document that it must be disregarded as just part of 'history'?
PS.To the subject of your post. We are to obey government Law only if it is in line with the doctrine of God's Word - see Daniel 3 & 6, and Acts 5:29
Also, the topic is a lie. Love is UNCONDITIONAL...even if someone you love does something wrong, you FORGIVE them...not send them to an ETERNITY of torture and pain.
So rediculous..one lifetime of mistakes = eternity (forever, infinity, unending, ect) of the worst torture and pain one can't even imagine...crazy.
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]
So all existing goverments were established by God and their laws obeyed as his word? Nazi Germany, North Korea, Iran, Mao China, and the many other goverments all through history which caused atrocities on mass scales were all established by god and the people of those countries should not have questioned their goverment and just follow? Gee God...thanks!
The more you read from the Bible, the more I can't believe people believe in it's non-sense. There are so many holes in it and contradictions is insane to believe in the bible literally.
What I can't understand is why people are unable to see what the Bible (all religious documents and beliefs for that matter) really represents...which is part of the spiritual evolution and the progression of knowledge and understanding that people have been trying to gain through the ages. It's served it's purpose...but it's really time to move on. Learn what you can from it, understand our history and our journey through the ages, but move on already!
Lansdowne5
I'm intrigued, you claim that the Bible (and in fact EVERY religious document) is just the understanding of people who lived at the time of its writing. Where's your proof? Why must we move on? What is so totally wrong in every religious document that it must be disregarded as just part of 'history'?
PS.To the subject of your post. We are to obey government Law only if it is in line with the doctrine of God's Word - see Daniel 3 & 6, and Acts 5:29
The proof is self evident. Look at all religions starting from the beginning, you will see that not only do they advance based on our knowledge of the world around us, but they also are influenced by prior religions before them.
And your excuse is a contradiction. If a government is established by god, why would he establish a government that we should not obey? It's one big stinkin' contradiction. If he is all powerfull and all knowing, he must of knew that government he established was going to end up corrupt right? Heck...how many goverments through the ages STARTED OUT corrupt?
The proof is self evident. Look at all religions starting from the beginning, you will see that not only do they advance based on our knowledge of the world around us, but they also are influenced by prior religions before them.
And your excuse is a contradiction. If a government is established by god, why would he establish a government that we should not obey? It's one big stinkin' contradiction. If he is all powerfull and all knowing, he must of knew that government he established was going to end up corrupt right?
dnuggs40
1. What do you consider the beginning? And you need to be more specific, what examples are there in Christianity which have been adopted from previous religions? What examples are there Hinduism, Islam, and Sikhism?
2. The government might be established by God, but that doesn't mean it's laws are . . . . .
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]
The proof is self evident. Look at all religions starting from the beginning, you will see that not only do they advance based on our knowledge of the world around us, but they also are influenced by prior religions before them.
And your excuse is a contradiction. If a government is established by god, why would he establish a government that we should not obey? It's one big stinkin' contradiction. If he is all powerfull and all knowing, he must of knew that government he established was going to end up corrupt right?
Lansdowne5
1. What do you consider the beginning? And you need to be more specific, what examples are there in Christianity which have been adopted from previous religions? What examples are there Hinduism, Islam, and Sikhism?
2. The government isn't established by God . . . . . .
1. For instance, Islam takes MANY teachings from Christianity. Anyways, what I mean is going back to the beginning of recorded history and learning about the religions of the times and moving forward. You will see many parallels and similar stories. You will also see religions changing as they progress through the ages along with our understanding of the universe.
2. Really? Which is it? Are the existing governments established by God or not? Seems like whatever the situation, you guys just change the meaning of the text to fit an argument.
Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."
Proof? Stoning! Back then stoning weas the trend, but now (for some unknown reason) stoning is not allowed. >__> See? Civilization has actually progressed.I'm intrigued, you claim that the Bible (and in fact EVERY religious document) is just the understanding of people who lived at the time of its writing. Where's your proof? Why must we move on? What is so totally wrong in every religious document that it must be disregarded as just part of 'history'?
PS.To the subject of your post. We are to obey government Law only if it is in line with the doctrine of God's Word - see Daniel 3 & 6, and Acts 5:29
Lansdowne5
He/she/it can love me all he/she/it wants if he/she/it exists. Most of what Ive heard about him/her/it doesnt make me want to love him/her/it back much. Sorry. An all loving all caring god would be nice, but thats just not how god gets portrayed in almost any document, religion or church. I have not found any religious teachings to be particularily (and especially not consistently) moral to be honest and I dont like it/need it. That is all. GeniaBy definition, "nice" means "pleasant" or "pleasing". Baring in mind God is a judge, how can a judge be "pleasant" or "pleasing" to the criminal? All loving =/= Nice. All loving = Giving his son up to die on a cross to reverse a mistake which he hadn't even made in the first place.
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]Proof? Stoning! Back then stoning weas the trend, but now (for some unknown reason) stoning is not allowed. >__> See? Civilization has actually progressed. Exactly...it's way more then that too. We used to think Gods were responsible for lightning storms and all manner of craziness, as our understanding of these natural events increased, our religious beliefs also aligned and adopted this knowledge into them. No longer were Gods angry and created storms, this is the natural world now, but God created the natural world and it plays out accordingly. Our knowledge increased, and in response our religious beliefs adopted this and changed.I'm intrigued, you claim that the Bible (and in fact EVERY religious document) is just the understanding of people who lived at the time of its writing. Where's your proof? Why must we move on? What is so totally wrong in every religious document that it must be disregarded as just part of 'history'?
PS.To the subject of your post. We are to obey government Law only if it is in line with the doctrine of God's Word - see Daniel 3 & 6, and Acts 5:29
Teenaged
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]Proof? Stoning! Back then stoning weas the trend, but now (for some unknown reason) stoning is not allowed. >__> See? Civilization has actually progressed. Yeeaaahh. That's why the death penalty is still in place in some areas of the world . . . . . .I'm intrigued, you claim that the Bible (and in fact EVERY religious document) is just the understanding of people who lived at the time of its writing. Where's your proof? Why must we move on? What is so totally wrong in every religious document that it must be disregarded as just part of 'history'?
PS.To the subject of your post. We are to obey government Law only if it is in line with the doctrine of God's Word - see Daniel 3 & 6, and Acts 5:29
Teenaged
[QUOTE="Genia"]He/she/it can love me all he/she/it wants if he/she/it exists. Most of what Ive heard about him/her/it doesnt make me want to love him/her/it back much. Sorry. An all loving all caring god would be nice, but thats just not how god gets portrayed in almost any document, religion or church. I have not found any religious teachings to be particularily (and especially not consistently) moral to be honest and I dont like it/need it. That is all. Lansdowne5By definition, "nice" means "pleasant" or "pleasing". Baring in mind God is a judge, how can a judge be "pleasant" or "pleasing" to the criminal? All loving =/= Nice. All loving = Giving his son up to die on a cross to reverse a mistake which he hadn't even made in the first place. How do you reverse a mistake that never happened? Either there was something to reverse (he made a mistake), or he just killed his son (himself wtf?) for no reason at all. And tell me...how is it considered loving to forgive a criminal who has killed people (but repented) and allow that person into heaven, yet condemn an otherwise good person to an ETERNITY of suffering because they didn't believe in God? It's crazy...
1. For instance, Islam takes MANY teachings from Christianity. Anyways, what I mean is going back to the beginning of recorded history and learning about the religions of the times and moving forward. You will see many parallels and similar stories. You will also see religions changing as they progress through the ages along with our understanding of the universe.
2. Really? Which is it? Are the existing governments established by God or not? Seems like whatever the situation, you guys just change the meaning of the text to fit an argument.
Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."
dnuggs40
1. Such as . . . . . ?
2. Didn't edit quick enough. :P Yes, the government is established by God, but the laws which are put in place by that government are not necessarily in accordance with what God actually intended.
[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]Proof? Stoning! Back then stoning weas the trend, but now (for some unknown reason) stoning is not allowed. >__> See? Civilization has actually progressed. Yeeaaahh. That's why the death penalty is still in place in some areas of the world . . . . . .Did I tell you that I approve of the death penalty? Do you approve of death penalty?I'm intrigued, you claim that the Bible (and in fact EVERY religious document) is just the understanding of people who lived at the time of its writing. Where's your proof? Why must we move on? What is so totally wrong in every religious document that it must be disregarded as just part of 'history'?
PS.To the subject of your post. We are to obey government Law only if it is in line with the doctrine of God's Word - see Daniel 3 & 6, and Acts 5:29
Lansdowne5
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment