GOD-Who created GOD?

[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="jericho180"]in the bible is cleary states the the consept of god and heaven is to much and complex for the human mind. we will never know as humans, when our souls leave our bodies then maybe we will know the answer. RationalAtheist

How terribly convenient.

What evidence do you have that we have souls?

You can't stand when other people have a religious belief can you? You are here to chastice our beliefs. You come up with these rhetorical questions because you know it's difficult for us to come up with an answer. Just because some of us can't come up with good answers doesn't mean there aren't good answers out there. If only I could remember everything I've read or heard that could contribute to the argument.

"What evidence do you have that we have soulds?" WTF kind of question is that?

Of course I can stand others believing in religion. Why else would I spend hours on forums discussing faith?

I only asked a question. Is it wrong to understand why other people believe different things to you?

If you don't feel able to contribute to the discussion, why do you persist? I sense some anger from you now, which has no place in this board.

I notice that many people tend not to analyse why they believe. Many people never consider why they believe. Questioning your beliefs is healthy, as it defines how and why you live.

You only ask questions? You and I both know there is no evidence to us having souls which is exactly why you asked. You spend hours on this forum because it makes you feel good to chastice my beliefs. I can tell. Maybe you sense anger from my posts because I have a terrible headache, and don't act like a part of you isn't provoking it?

And the last part I totally agree with. It is healthy to question your beliefs.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="jericho180"]in the bible is cleary states the the consept of god and heaven is to much and complex for the human mind. we will never know as humans, when our souls leave our bodies then maybe we will know the answer. jesseandnikki

How terribly convenient.

What evidence do you have that we have souls?

You can't stand when other people have a religious belief can you? You are here to chastice our beliefs. You come up with these rhetorical questions because you know it's difficult for us to come up with an answer. Just because some of us can't come up with good answers doesn't mean there aren't good answers out there. If only I could remember everything I've read or heard that could contribute to the argument.

"What evidence do you have that we have soulds?" WTF kind of question is that?

Of course I can stand others believing in religion. Why else would I spend hours on forums discussing faith?

I only asked a question. Is it wrong to understand why other people believe different things to you?

If you don't feel able to contribute to the discussion, why do you persist? I sense some anger from you now, which has no place in this board.

I notice that many people tend not to analyse why they believe. Many people never consider why they believe. Questioning your beliefs is healthy, as it defines how and why you live.

You only ask questions? You and I both know there is no evidence to us having souls which is exactly why you asked. You spend hours on this forum because it makes you feel good to chastice my beliefs. I can tell. Maybe you sense anger from my posts because I have a terrible headache, and don't act like a part of you isn't provoking it?

And the last part I totally agree with. It is healthy to question your beliefs.

I think you are getting too worked up. Don't worry about it. I don't think that you're going to convince them. On the other hand they sure haven't convinced me of anything. I say let's give it up. All we are doing is creating a lot of hard feelings.

You only ask questions? You and I both know there is no evidence to us having souls which is exactly why you asked. You spend hours on this forum because it makes you feel good to chastice my beliefs. I can tell. Maybe you sense anger from my posts because I have a terrible headache, and don't act like a part of you isn't provoking it?

And the last part I totally agree with. It is healthy to question your beliefs.

jesseandnikki

I don't only ask questions - I also justify my own beliefs, backing them up with evidence.

I spent hours on these forums in the past, when I had not met you, so your reasoning is flawed. It seems you suffer from a persecution complex. I could very well say the same thing about you chastising my beliefs, but seeing as this is a public discussion forum about faith, of course I won't.

How do you know that no-one has evidence (be it irrational or otherwise) that they have a soul. Again, it assumes you consider everyone should think similarly to yourself.

[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]

You only ask questions? You and I both know there is no evidence to us having souls which is exactly why you asked. You spend hours on this forum because it makes you feel good to chastice my beliefs. I can tell. Maybe you sense anger from my posts because I have a terrible headache, and don't act like a part of you isn't provoking it?

And the last part I totally agree with. It is healthy to question your beliefs.

RationalAtheist

I don't only ask questions - I also justify my own beliefs, backing them up with evidence.

I spent hours on these forums in the past, when I had not met you, so your reasoning is flawed. It seems you suffer from a persecution complex. I could very well say the same thing about you chastising my beliefs, but seeing as this is a public discussion forum about faith, of course I won't.

How do you know that no-one has evidence (be it irrational or otherwise) that they have a soul. Again, it assumes you consider everyone should think similarly to yourself.

You obviously don't know what chastising is because all I've done this whole time try to back up what I believe while you persistantly ask rhetorical, unanswerable questions that in your eyes disproves my beliefs simply because no one can answer them, as if you get a rise out of it. I've never once tried to put down your beliefs (or non-beliefs, however you want to look at it).

You obviously don't know what chastising is because all I've done this whole time try to back up what I believe while you persistantly ask rhetorical, unanswerable questions that in your eyes disproves my beliefs simply because no one can answer them, as if you get a rise out of it. I've never once tried to put down your beliefs (or non-beliefs, however you want to look at it).

jesseandnikki

You have never backed up what you believe. You have said instead that you can't back up your case and you need faith to believe. That is not baking up your beliefs, that's copping out.

I have asked valid questions and made logical assertions. If you don't like them, you needn't respond.

Disproof is a logical fallacy - I could no more disprove god than disprove invisible pink unicorns.

Yes you have, in my opinion tried to put down my beliefs, but I don't care that you have. They are more than robust enough to survive your attempts.

I see myself as an active or positive atheist, so I want to look at it in a "positive beliefs" way.

[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]

You obviously don't know what chastising is because all I've done this whole time try to back up what I believe while you persistantly ask rhetorical, unanswerable questions that in your eyes disproves my beliefs simply because no one can answer them, as if you get a rise out of it. I've never once tried to put down your beliefs (or non-beliefs, however you want to look at it).

RationalAtheist

You have never backed up what you believe. You have said instead that you can't back up your case and you need faith to believe. That is not baking up your beliefs, that's copping out.

I have asked valid questions and made logical assertions. If you don't like them, you needn't respond.

Disproof is a logical fallacy - I could no more disprove god than disprove invisible pink unicorns.

Yes you have, in my opinion tried to put down my beliefs, but I don't care that you have. They are more than robust enough to survive your attempts.

I see myself as an active or positive atheist, so I want to look at it in a "positive beliefs" way.

You're questions are questions that ask us to prove God, or prove that we have a soul. These are not things that can be proven, like you've said, but my faith is so strong that I beleive them to be fact. It is something you obviously don't understand.

god seems to just be the unexplainable. once people find facts that contradict the bible then the church says they interpret this verse differently and then christians go on believing. its always been like that. an example is when scientists figured out the heart isnt where jesus lives its just a blood pump. then christians started saying"no, in the bible when it says let jesus into your heart then they mean let him into your soul". the reason why youll never win against a christian is because if they are proved wrong they can just interpret the bible differently. so take my advice and just give up logic wont work here.

People Created God. Not vice versa

He was used to explain the inexplicable. He was a used as a tool to inspire fear (by the church)

God is used as an excuse to kill innocent people. There is no physical proof of god. God has never spoken to me, helped me in anyway and showed me any sign of his existance.

People believe because they need something to believe in. Not becuase it is support by fact.

I have come to the conclusion that. God can only exist within your mind. He is more of a metaphor then someone who watches of us.

People Created God. Not vice versa

He was used to explain the inexplicable. He was a used as a tool to inspire fear (by the church)

God is used as an excuse to kill innocent people. There is no physical proof of god. God has never spoken to me, helped me in anyway and showed me any sign of his existance.

People believe because they need something to believe in. Not becuase it is support by fact.

I have come to the conclusion that. God can only exist within your mind. He is more of a metaphor then someone who watches of us.

PerilousWolf

bingo. whenever bad things happen its "sinful humans" and whenever good things happen we "thank god"

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

kirk4ever

[QUOTE="kirk4ever"]

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

RHCP87

To say thats why religons exist isn't getting the real picture. Its like looking for an ant a 1000 miles away though a hole the size of a pinhead. Its not really looking at it at all.

[QUOTE="RHCP87"][QUOTE="kirk4ever"]

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

Ezgam3r

To say thats why religons exist isn't getting the real picture. Its like looking for an ant a 1000 miles away though a hole the size of a pinhead. Its not really looking at it at all.

Exactly.

The quote you posted does not back up anything you've said, or relate to this topic. That's what's bizarre. I agree that yuo can see more than with your eyes alone. That's why we've invented telescopes, microscopes and sensors. We can quantify the invisible!

At least, in not accepting evolution, you adhere to scriptures. I admire you for your dogged determination and your purity of thought. Unfortunately, in not believing in the evidence slapping you in the face every day, you make your own defense of your faith les and les rational.

Scientists have created life. My link was about chromasomes. Amino acids (evolutionary building blocks of life) have already been created artificially. Even if you don't accept that link, there are many other impartial scientific discussions about this.

Would you like me to offer you unfulfilled Jehovas Witness propheses, or biblical ones? It seems you accept that some biblical predictions were untrue, by saying "they didn't understand the scriptures". With all the interpretations of the same texts, can anyone say for sure that they do understand them. Theists always have and always will debate the scriptures, as interpretation is needed to make sense of them. Take evolution, for example...

Chance makes sense. You can prove chance. I have read that article a few times. It seems you still refuse to even investigate my suggestions for rival ideas to your own though. Surely that the only way to preserve your faith, that would otherwise not hold up to investigative scrutiny.

Why are you leaning over to the Jehova's Witnesses? Is no other religion christian? Against blood donation? Do you think that homosexuality and gambling are sins? Do you think abortion is murder? Is the end of the world nigh(-ish)? Like knocking on doors?

EDIT: If there's one thing your article did do for me, it inspired me to write a blog entry about religious wonderment - thanks!RationalAtheist

I didn't post a quote. I posted a link to an article that is related to the topic.

How is it less and less rational? If you don't believe in the evidence, then I think you're not being rational.

I'm talking about non-living things actually coming to life, not creating building blocks of life.

That's what I said. What Bible prophecies did not come true? I'm saying they're always right. Jehovah's Witnesses don't make prophecies; they just interpret the Bible's.

If you really think lucky accidents make sense, then I guess you can believe that. Obviously, I, on the other hand, think the laws of universe and all the marvelous things around us were deliberately designed. Design and purpose are not characteristics of blind chance.

Because I think they're beliefs are consistent with Bible teachings and truly Christians. They're not against blood donation; they don't accept blood transfusion. Lying with the same sex is detestable and gambling being a sin has to do with greediness. Yes. What do you mean "nigh"? I like their reason for knocking on doors.

If God didn't need to be created, then why should the universe need a creator? I also have difficulty believing in something that has infinite power and knowledge. It's just unrealistic.james28893

Because something cannot come from nothing.

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="jalexbrown"]

That still does nothing to logically explain God's lack of a creator. Logically, everything has a creator. Nobody can come up with a logical explaination for how anything could come to be without a creator. I'll challenge anyone on here to try.

jalexbrown

Logically, if he has ALWAYS existed, he wouldn't have to have been created.

How? Why?

Exactly what I was going to ask.

Because he has always existed. Therefore he wouldn't have to have been created.

There's nothing more for me say. It's not so hard to get, I don't know why you guys can't.

Why would he have to be created if he has always existed?

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="jalexbrown"]

That still does nothing to logically explain God's lack of a creator. Logically, everything has a creator. Nobody can come up with a logical explaination for how anything could come to be without a creator. I'll challenge anyone on here to try.

Revinh

Logically, if he has ALWAYS existed, he wouldn't have to have been created.

How? Why?

Exactly what I was going to ask.

Because he has always existed. Therefore he wouldn't have to have been created.

There's nothing more for me say. It's not so hard to get, I don't know why you guys can't.

Why would he have to be created if he has always existed?

No, because it hasn't.Revinh

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]The quote you posted does not back up anything you've said, or relate to this topic. That's what's bizarre. I agree that yuo can see more than with your eyes alone. That's why we've invented telescopes, microscopes and sensors. We can quantify the invisible!

At least, in not accepting evolution, you adhere to scriptures. I admire you for your dogged determination and your purity of thought. Unfortunately, in not believing in the evidence slapping you in the face every day, you make your own defense of your faith les and les rational.

Scientists have created life. My link was about chromasomes. Amino acids (evolutionary building blocks of life) have already been created artificially. Even if you don't accept that link, there are many other impartial scientific discussions about this.

Would you like me to offer you unfulfilled Jehovas Witness propheses, or biblical ones? It seems you accept that some biblical predictions were untrue, by saying "they didn't understand the scriptures". With all the interpretations of the same texts, can anyone say for sure that they do understand them. Theists always have and always will debate the scriptures, as interpretation is needed to make sense of them. Take evolution, for example...

Chance makes sense. You can prove chance. I have read that article a few times. It seems you still refuse to even investigate my suggestions for rival ideas to your own though. Surely that the only way to preserve your faith, that would otherwise not hold up to investigative scrutiny.

Why are you leaning over to the Jehova's Witnesses? Is no other religion christian? Against blood donation? Do you think that homosexuality and gambling are sins? Do you think abortion is murder? Is the end of the world nigh(-ish)? Like knocking on doors?

EDIT: If there's one thing your article did do for me, it inspired me to write a blog entry about religious wonderment - thanks!Revinh

I didn't post a quote. I posted a link to an article that is related to the topic.

How is it less and less rational? If you don't believe in the evidence, then I think you're not being rational.

I'm talking about non-living things actually coming to life, not creating building blocks of life.

That's what I said. What Bible prophecies did not come true? I'm saying they're always right. Jehovah's Witnesses don't make prophecies; they just interpret the Bible's.

If you really think lucky accidents make sense, then I guess you can believe that. Obviously, I, on the other hand, think the laws of universe and all the marvelous things around us were deliberately designed. Design and purpose are not characteristics of blind chance.

Because I think they're beliefs are consistent with Bible teachings and truly Christians. They're not against blood donation; they don't accept blood transfusion. Lying with the same sex is detestable and gambling being a sin has to do with greediness. Yes. What do you mean "nigh"? I like their reason for knocking on doors.

Your defense of your faith is less and less rational, the more we understand about our world independently of the bible, and how much theists have to constantly change their doctrine to fit in with established scientific knowledge, as it becomes available.

Your view of evolution could be more developed if you did a bit of research into the current scientific thinking on it.

Did the jehovas witnesses prophesy judgement day, actually naming date after date. They dates have all came and gone... I suppose they have just interpreted the bible incorrectly. But wait, - suppose there are other incorrect interpretations? Why place faith in something you know has been proven wrong before? The entire Jehovas Witness religion was founded based on an incorrect prophesy that failed to transpire!

Will you be one of their 144,000 who will reign over us - post armageddon? How will they choose that number from their millions of adherents? Perhaps that prophesy will be wrong. Perhaps their interpretation of the book of revelations is not accurate...

There was a case recently of a woman dying through her churches refusal for her to accept blood. She left two children.

[QUOTE="Revinh"]No, because it hasn't.DrummerJon

Astronomers say it's about 15 billion years old.

Your defense of your faith is less and less rational, the more we understand about our world independently of the bible, and how much theists have to constantly change their doctrine to fit in with established scientific knowledge, as it becomes available.

Your view of evolution could be more developed if you did a bit of research into the current scientific thinking on it.

Did the jehovas witnesses prophesy judgement day, actually naming date after date. They dates have all came and gone... I suppose they have just interpreted the bible incorrectly. But wait, - suppose there are other incorrect interpretations? Why place faith in something you know has been proven wrong before? The entire Jehovas Witness religion was founded based on an incorrect prophesy that failed to transpire!

Will you be one of their 144,000 who will reign over us - post armageddon? How will they choose that number from their millions of adherents? Perhaps that prophesy will be wrong. Perhaps their interpretation of the book of revelations is not accurate...

There was a case recently of a woman dying through her churches refusal for her to accept blood. She left two children.RationalAtheist

That has nothing to do with my defense or the article.

It doesn't change the fact that non-living matter has never been proven to come to life.

They didn't realize that there's no specific date for Judgement Day. It is now their belief that 1914 is the start of "the last days." Again, they were starting out. The more we study the Bible, the more we know.

You haven't said even one of many Bible prophecies you said that didn't come true. Do you even know them, such as the fall of Babylon?

I don't know if I will. Perhaps you should ask them how they came up with that number. I'm not gonna conduct a Bible study with you over a forum.

Witnesses decide for themselves whether to accept blood or not.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Your defense of your faith is less and less rational, the more we understand about our world independently of the bible, and how much theists have to constantly change their doctrine to fit in with established scientific knowledge, as it becomes available.

Your view of evolution could be more developed if you did a bit of research into the current scientific thinking on it.

Did the jehovas witnesses prophesy judgement day, actually naming date after date. They dates have all came and gone... I suppose they have just interpreted the bible incorrectly. But wait, - suppose there are other incorrect interpretations? Why place faith in something you know has been proven wrong before? The entire Jehovas Witness religion was founded based on an incorrect prophesy that failed to transpire!

Will you be one of their 144,000 who will reign over us - post armageddon? How will they choose that number from their millions of adherents? Perhaps that prophesy will be wrong. Perhaps their interpretation of the book of revelations is not accurate...

There was a case recently of a woman dying through her churches refusal for her to accept blood. She left two children.Revinh

That has nothing to do with my defense or the article.

It doesn't change the fact that non-living matter has never been proven to come to life.

They didn't realize that there's no specific date for Judgement Day. It is now their belief that 1914 is the start of "the last days." Again, they were starting out. The more we study the Bible, the more we know.

You haven't said even one of many Bible prophecies you said that didn't come true. Do you even know them, such as the fall of Babylon?

I don't know if I will. Perhaps you should ask them how they came up with that number. I'm not gonna conduct a Bible study with you over a forum.

Witnesses decide for themselves whether to accept blood or not.

Amino acids (life's building blocks) can be created. New life forms can be created from them. There is much progress on this area right now.

I thought there have been numerous attempts at predicting a date for judgement day by the witnesses. All failed

The number comes from the book of revelations. You won't discuss religious beliefs in an internet forum with me? That's a turn-up, as I thought we already were doing a little bible study.

The jehovas witness view of blood is that it is sacred. It can not be stored, taken or given. If a jehovas witness accepts or donates blood for transplant, they are breaking their faith .

Chuck Norris created God.

I try not to think about it, but...

God is everything, try not to think of God as a powerful spirit, God is not one entity. Instead, God is the soul and driving esence, God is all, God is the Universe, God is man and the list goes on.

God is perfect, nobody created God, otherwise He (i find that a stupid term when talking about God) would not be perfect.

I try not to think about it, but...

God is everything, try not to think of God as a powerful spirit, God is not one entity. Instead, God is the soul and driving esence, God is all, God is the Universe, God is man and the list goes on.

God is perfect, nobody created God, otherwise He (i find that a stupid term when talking about God) would not be perfect.

serbsta69

See what happens if you try not to think about it?

[QUOTE="serbsta69"]

I try not to think about it, but...

God is everything, try not to think of God as a powerful spirit, God is not one entity. Instead, God is the soul and driving esence, God is all, God is the Universe, God is man and the list goes on.

God is perfect, nobody created God, otherwise He (i find that a stupid term when talking about God) would not be perfect.

RationalAtheist

See what happens if you try not to think about it?

Yes im having relapses at the moment.

I dont like thinking about this stuff too much.

Chuck Norris created God.

Cup-of-Coffee

yeh dat is true haha

[QUOTE="DrummerJon"][QUOTE="Revinh"]No, because it hasn't.Revinh

Astronomers say it's about 15 billion years old.

[QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Your defense of your faith is less and less rational, the more we understand about our world independently of the bible, and how much theists have to constantly change their doctrine to fit in with established scientific knowledge, as it becomes available.

Your view of evolution could be more developed if you did a bit of research into the current scientific thinking on it.

Did the jehovas witnesses prophesy judgement day, actually naming date after date. They dates have all came and gone... I suppose they have just interpreted the bible incorrectly. But wait, - suppose there are other incorrect interpretations? Why place faith in something you know has been proven wrong before? The entire Jehovas Witness religion was founded based on an incorrect prophesy that failed to transpire!

Will you be one of their 144,000 who will reign over us - post armageddon? How will they choose that number from their millions of adherents? Perhaps that prophesy will be wrong. Perhaps their interpretation of the book of revelations is not accurate...

There was a case recently of a woman dying through her churches refusal for her to accept blood. She left two children.RationalAtheist

That has nothing to do with my defense or the article.

It doesn't change the fact that non-living matter has never been proven to come to life.

They didn't realize that there's no specific date for Judgement Day. It is now their belief that 1914 is the start of "the last days." Again, they were starting out. The more we study the Bible, the more we know.

You haven't said even one of many Bible prophecies you said that didn't come true. Do you even know them, such as the fall of Babylon?

I don't know if I will. Perhaps you should ask them how they came up with that number. I'm not gonna conduct a Bible study with you over a forum.

Witnesses decide for themselves whether to accept blood or not.

Amino acids (life's building blocks) can be created. New life forms can be created from them. There is much progress on this area right now.

I thought there have been numerous attempts at predicting a date for judgement day by the witnesses. All failed

The number comes from the book of revelations. You won't discuss religious beliefs in an internet forum with me? That's a turn-up, as I thought we already were doing a little bible study.

The jehovas witness view of blood is that it is sacred. It can not be stored, taken or given. If a jehovas witness accepts or donates blood for transplant, they are breaking their faith .

Like I said, come back when life has arose from nonliving things.

You completely ignored what I said.

A little we are. I just didn't want it to go too far. It sounded like you wanted to know more about the number so I suggested you study it more.

Yeah. (...?)

Joe Sakic.SmashBrosLegend

i see you...and raise you...LIDSTROM!

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="jalexbrown"]

That still does nothing to logically explain God's lack of a creator. Logically, everything has a creator. Nobody can come up with a logical explaination for how anything could come to be without a creator. I'll challenge anyone on here to try.

Revinh

Logically, if he has ALWAYS existed, he wouldn't have to have been created.

How? Why?

Exactly what I was going to ask.

Because he has always existed. Therefore he wouldn't have to have been created.

There's nothing more for me say. It's not so hard to get, I don't know why you guys can't.

Why would he have to be created if he has always existed?

You keep contradicting yourself. You said that something cannot come from nothing. Then in this post you state that something can come from nothing (God). Is this so hard to understand?

[QUOTE="Revinh"]

[QUOTE="DrummerJon"][QUOTE="Revinh"]No, because it hasn't.DrummerJon

Astronomers say it's about 15 billion years old.

Not all of them believes in big bang and evolution, and I didn't say anything about the earth being 6000 years old. God's energy cannot be dated, I would think.

[QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="jalexbrown"]That still does nothing to logically explain God's lack of a creator. Logically, everything has a creator. Nobody can come up with a logical explaination for how anything could come to be without a creator. I'll challenge anyone on here to try.trix5817

Logically, if he has ALWAYS existed, he wouldn't have to have been created.

How? Why?

Exactly what I was going to ask.

Because he has always existed. Therefore he wouldn't have to have been created.

There's nothing more for me say. It's not so hard to get, I don't know why you guys can't.

Why would he have to be created if he has always existed?

You keep contradicting yourself. You said that something cannot come from nothing. Then in this post you state that something can come from nothing (God). Is this so hard to understand?

I didn't say God came from nothing. I said he always exists, therefore not coming from nothing or anything.

[QUOTE="DrummerJon"][QUOTE="Revinh"]

[QUOTE="DrummerJon"][QUOTE="Revinh"]No, because it hasn't.Revinh

Astronomers say it's about 15 billion years old.

Not all of them believes in big bang and evolution, and I didn't say anything about the earth being 6000 years old. God's energy cannot be dated, I would think.

The Spaghetti Monster's energy can't be dated either.

This question boggles me to no end

"He who exists in the beginning".... God is an entity separate from the universe maybe? There's no finite reality for God or a.k.a date of birth

^???Revinh

The Spaghetti Monster created the universe.......is it really that hard to understand?

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

kirk4ever

One good theory is Time itself never existed until God created the universe. Time is considered to be the universe's 4th dimension, and time is not absolute. This should answer questions like "What was God doing doing all that time before he created the Universe". Time never existed before God created the universe.

As for where God came from, well He has no physical body, so any scientific laws don't apply to Him. He is a supernatural being, and humans are created in His Image :)

[QUOTE="kirk4ever"]

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

PandaBear86

One good theory is Time itself never existed until God created the universe. Time is considered to be the universe's 4th dimension, and time is not absolute. This should answer questions like "What was God doing doing all that time before he created the Universe". Time never existed before God created the universe.

As for where God came from, well He has no physical body, so any scientific laws don't apply to Him. He is a supernatural being, and humans are created in His Image :)

Wheather you agree with it or not it's a logical theory. I like the "so any scientific laws don't apply to Him," part. That's something that many people on this board don't seem to get.

I didn't say God came from nothing. I said he always exists, therefore not coming from nothing or anything.Revinh

How can something exists which doesn't pertain to energy or matter?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Your defense of your faith is less and less rational, the more we understand about our world independently of the bible, and how much theists have to constantly change their doctrine to fit in with established scientific knowledge, as it becomes available.

Your view of evolution could be more developed if you did a bit of research into the current scientific thinking on it.

Did the jehovas witnesses prophesy judgement day, actually naming date after date. They dates have all came and gone... I suppose they have just interpreted the bible incorrectly. But wait, - suppose there are other incorrect interpretations? Why place faith in something you know has been proven wrong before? The entire Jehovas Witness religion was founded based on an incorrect prophesy that failed to transpire!

Will you be one of their 144,000 who will reign over us - post armageddon? How will they choose that number from their millions of adherents? Perhaps that prophesy will be wrong. Perhaps their interpretation of the book of revelations is not accurate...

There was a case recently of a woman dying through her churches refusal for her to accept blood. She left two children.Revinh

That has nothing to do with my defense or the article.

It doesn't change the fact that non-living matter has never been proven to come to life.

They didn't realize that there's no specific date for Judgement Day. It is now their belief that 1914 is the start of "the last days." Again, they were starting out. The more we study the Bible, the more we know.

You haven't said even one of many Bible prophecies you said that didn't come true. Do you even know them, such as the fall of Babylon?

I don't know if I will. Perhaps you should ask them how they came up with that number. I'm not gonna conduct a Bible study with you over a forum.

Witnesses decide for themselves whether to accept blood or not.

Amino acids (life's building blocks) can be created. New life forms can be created from them. There is much progress on this area right now.

I thought there have been numerous attempts at predicting a date for judgement day by the witnesses. All failed

The number comes from the book of revelations. You won't discuss religious beliefs in an internet forum with me? That's a turn-up, as I thought we already were doing a little bible study.

The jehovas witness view of blood is that it is sacred. It can not be stored, taken or given. If a jehovas witness accepts or donates blood for transplant, they are breaking their faith .

Like I said, come back when life has arose from nonliving things.

You completely ignored what I said.

A little we are. I just didn't want it to go too far. It sounded like you wanted to know more about the number so I suggested you study it more.

Yeah. (...?)

It has, as I've linked to.

It seems you have ingored what I have said to counter your assertions, actually.

No, my inference is that you have no idea where the number comes from, or how the witnesses are going to choose which of its followers will fit into the human gods catagory, come the revelation.

Yeah? You said that Jehovas Witnesses can accept blood. I pionted out the doctine that dis-allows it. This means you are wrong about JWs being free to take or give blood. If you are wrong about that, what else are you wrong about?

Yeah? You said that Jehovas Witnesses can accept blood. I pionted out the doctine that dis-allows it. This means you are wrong about JWs being free to take or give blood. If you are wrong about that, what else are you wrong about?

RationalAtheist

I would say alot. I like to read Revinh's post because of their entertainment value.

Not so long ago he used the fact that we haven't seen any change in a three type, and some animal to say that evolution was bogus.... :?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Yeah? You said that Jehovas Witnesses can accept blood. I pionted out the doctine that dis-allows it. This means you are wrong about JWs being free to take or give blood. If you are wrong about that, what else are you wrong about?

_Tobli_

I would say alot. I like to read Revinh's post because of their entertainment value.

Not so long ago he used the fact that we haven't seen any change in a three type, and some animal to say that evolution was bogus.... :?

You beleive in evolution? HAHAHAAH

yes, unless Spaghetti Monster is what you call God.Revinh

The point is, we have just as much proof that the Spaghetti Monster created the universe as we do the Christian God has.

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

kirk4ever

The human mind cannot comprehend something always existing. Maybe God always existed?

[QUOTE="PandaBear86"][QUOTE="kirk4ever"]

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

P47Rotgut

One good theory is Time itself never existed until God created the universe. Time is considered to be the universe's 4th dimension, and time is not absolute. This should answer questions like "What was God doing doing all that time before he created the Universe". Time never existed before God created the universe.

As for where God came from, well He has no physical body, so any scientific laws don't apply to Him. He is a supernatural being, and humans are created in His Image :)

Wheather you agree with it or not it's a logical theory. I like the "so any scientific laws don't apply to Him," part. That's something that many people on this board don't seem to get.

Theory? I hope you don't mean "Theory" as in as it is used in Science, which means that it has overwhelming evidence. Look up what theory in science actually means.

It's also was a logical "theory" that the Earth was flat. I mean, using what we knew, it was a pretty logical assumption that the Earth was flat.

[QUOTE="kirk4ever"]

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

Cube_of_MooN

The human mind cannot comprehend something always existing. Maybe God always existed?

Maybe the universe has always existed? The point is, religions make assumptions, while science doesn't.