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[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. trix5817
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. P47Rotgut
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
A slap in the face perhaps, but there are many other ways in which a god would provide proof of their existence.
I agree that believing in god is harder than not believing in god. Is that because you have to suspend the rational world view, that has so much significance in every day life, and resort to irrational faith without any evidence?
If something is hard to believe, does that make it true? What about algebra dogs? Can they?
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="aliend"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. trix5817
Isn't it impossible for a god to be outside our unverse because then he/she/it would be unable to influence our universe in any way? (because energy is constant)
It's not something science can prove/drisprove. Because he lives outside of it doesn't mean he can't come in. It's like he's looking into our space/time domain from outside. It's just...not something your brain, or my brain, or anyone's brain can fully wrap around and understand...that's why it's supernatural.
It's supernatural if we can't understand something? What? Explain this....
People didn't know that the Earth was round. I guess that is "supernatural".
Dogs can't understand algebra, therefore according to your logic, it's supernatural....
Religion is just a placeholder for the unknown, of which humans fear.
Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
jesseandnikki
Who said you were an idiot?
Supernatural means beyond explaination beyond natural laws. So they are not hard to understand, they are impossible to understand rationally. Other supposed supernatural things - ghosts, ufos, psychics etc can not be explained by rational methods either. Does that give them any more or less credit than belief in god?
Its theists that interpret and jump to conclusions. Science accepts possibilities but is prepared to investigate and reach rational decisions, based on positive evidence.
Again, who said you are stupid, or are you transferring your emotions onto other posters? I think people who steadfastly follow an irrational theist doctrine and do not explore other doctrines and alternative non-religious reasoning, or accept possibilities over faith, are more blinkered than those that do those things.
[QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. RationalAtheist
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
A slap in the face perhaps, but there are many other ways in which a god would provide proof of their existence.
I agree that believing in god is harder than not believing in god. Is that because you have to suspend the rational world view, that has so much significance in every day life, and resort to irrational faith without any evidence?
If something is hard to believe, does that make it true? What about algebra dogs? Can they?
I didn't say that being hard to believe automatically makes it true. What I mean is that you have to realise that people who believe in God aren't just stupid. People usually have reasons for doing something that is hard. If they didn't they would choose the easy way. I was also talking not just about believing but the conciquences of believing. It's not easy for anyone to admit that there is a being that is superior to them(something that you have to do if you believe in God). If you believe in Him you must obey Him. Those are serious conciquences that many people don't want to face up to. Therefore they don't believe in God. The actual believing is easy, the dealing with that belief is the hard part. Besides the fact that you have people call you ignorant because you do believe. Jesus even says in the Bible, "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and youwill be hated by all nations for my name's sake." (Matthew 24:9) Believing in God takes guts.
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
RationalAtheist
Who said you were an idiot?
Supernatural means beyond explaination beyond natural laws. So they are not hard to understand, they are impossible to understand rationally. Other supposed supernatural things - ghosts, ufos, psychics etc can not be explained by rational methods either. Does that give them any more or less credit than belief in god?
Its theists that interpret and jump to conclusions. Science accepts possibilities but is prepared to investigate and reach rational decisions, based on positive evidence.
Again, who said you are stupid, or are you transferring your emotions onto other posters? I think people who steadfastly follow an irrational theist doctrine and do not explore other doctrines and alternative non-religious reasoning, or accept possibilities over faith, are more blinkered than those that do those things.
trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. P47Rotgut
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
I'm not going to believe in something in which I don't truely believe in, am I? I'm not going to "fake" believe just to fill in that gap of the unknown and have an easy answer. I'm not going to believe in something just to satisfy my questions. Sorry.
Oh, and by the way, I used to be Catholic.
[QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. trix5817
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
I'm not going to believe in something in which I don't truely believe in, am I? I'm not going to "fake" believe just to fill in that gap of the unknown and have an easy answer. I'm not going to believe in something just to satisfy my questions. Sorry.
Oh, and by the way, I used to be Catholic.
I guess not. But in answer to your original question(says who?). Jesus said, and that's good enough for me.
[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="aliend"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. jesseandnikki
Isn't it impossible for a god to be outside our unverse because then he/she/it would be unable to influence our universe in any way? (because energy is constant)
It's not something science can prove/drisprove. Because he lives outside of it doesn't mean he can't come in. It's like he's looking into our space/time domain from outside. It's just...not something your brain, or my brain, or anyone's brain can fully wrap around and understand...that's why it's supernatural.
It's supernatural if we can't understand something? What? Explain this....
People didn't know that the Earth was round. I guess that is "supernatural".
Dogs can't understand algebra, therefore according to your logic, it's supernatural....
Religion is just a placeholder for the unknown, of which humans fear.
Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
Next time, try to be a little less hypocritical, okay? I'm not the one jumping to conclusions, you are. Did I ever stated that you were an idiot? No. Did you generalize me, yes?
It's you're reading comprehension that's lacking, not mine. You stated that God is supernatural, therefor we cannot fully understand this supernatural being, correct? I questioned this theory of yours. Get over it. We (humans) give ourselves too much credit. We cannot fully comprehend everything, just like a dog can't comprehend algebra (as I'ved stated many times...).
You belive that God has always existed, right? Then what makes you think that the universe has not always existed? The point is, we have no idea how the universe was created. But being humans, we have to try and fill in that gap of the unknown with something, religion.
[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. P47Rotgut
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
I'm not going to believe in something in which I don't truely believe in, am I? I'm not going to "fake" believe just to fill in that gap of the unknown and have an easy answer. I'm not going to believe in something just to satisfy my questions. Sorry.
Oh, and by the way, I used to be Catholic.
I guess not. But in answer to your original question(says who?). Jesus said, and that's good enough for me.
Can I ask you a question?
If someone in modern times claimed to be the second coming of Jesus, would anyone believe them? Probably not. Things were different back then, as you'd probably agree. It was a time when people were easily pursuaded, tricked, and the study of science wasn't even close to being as renowned as it is today.
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. P47Rotgut
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
A slap in the face perhaps, but there are many other ways in which a god would provide proof of their existence.
I agree that believing in god is harder than not believing in god. Is that because you have to suspend the rational world view, that has so much significance in every day life, and resort to irrational faith without any evidence?
If something is hard to believe, does that make it true? What about algebra dogs? Can they?
I didn't say that being hard to believe automatically makes it true. What I mean is that you have to realise that people who believe in God aren't just stupid. People usually have reasons for doing something that is hard. If they didn't they would choose the easy way. I was also talking not just about believing but the conciquences of believing. It's not easy for anyone to admit that there is a being that is superior to them(something that you have to do if you believe in God). If you believe in Him you must obey Him. Those are serious conciquences that many people don't want to face up to. Therefore they don't believe in God. The actual believing is easy, the dealing with that belief is the hard part. Besides the fact that you have people call you ignorant because you do believe. Jesus even says in the Bible, "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and youwill be hated by all nations for my name's sake." (Matthew 24:9) Believing in God takes guts.
So does being an atheist, especially here in America. Do you have any idea how many times people have scolded me for being an atheist? It's ridiculous.
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. P47Rotgut
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
A slap in the face perhaps, but there are many other ways in which a god would provide proof of their existence.
I agree that believing in god is harder than not believing in god. Is that because you have to suspend the rational world view, that has so much significance in every day life, and resort to irrational faith without any evidence?
If something is hard to believe, does that make it true? What about algebra dogs? Can they?
I didn't say that being hard to believe automatically makes it true. What I mean is that you have to realise that people who believe in God aren't just stupid. People usually have reasons for doing something that is hard. If they didn't they would choose the easy way. I was also talking not just about believing but the conciquences of believing. It's not easy for anyone to admit that there is a being that is superior to them(something that you have to do if you believe in God). If you believe in Him you must obey Him. Those are serious conciquences that many people don't want to face up to. Therefore they don't believe in God. The actual believing is easy, the dealing with that belief is the hard part. Besides the fact that you have people call you ignorant because you do believe. Jesus even says in the Bible, "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and youwill be hated by all nations for my name's sake." (Matthew 24:9) Believing in God takes guts.
I believe there are people who are superior to me. Its not difficult at all - its obvious. People excel over me in all areas of endeavour. Its also easy to prove. To think that you are superior to others is both arrogant and irrational.
This talk of obeying - What exactly are you obeying? Are you now talking of a christian god, or islamic god, or a hindu god? Reasons for belief need not be rational reasons.
There are far more compelling reasons not to believe in god than not facing up to obeying someone/thing, or that someone/thing is superior to them.
The religious constructs (salvation and deliverance from evil) are there to make faith comforting. Its all too easy to believe without questioning. Its easy to live an untroubled religious life. This is true, since questioning faith has been - and still is - frowned upon.
Believing in god takes no guts, but trying to impression others with those ill-founded views probably will incite some derision against you. You have a choice to keep your christian beliefs personal and not discuss them, which would then allow you to live an untroubled life. As a christian, your knowledge will be called into question when it conflicts with natural and physical laws.
Matthew was written in 60 to 90 AD. How do you know that Jesus really did say that quote? When was the last christian put to death for their views?
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
jesseandnikki
Who said you were an idiot?
Supernatural means beyond explaination beyond natural laws. So they are not hard to understand, they are impossible to understand rationally. Other supposed supernatural things - ghosts, ufos, psychics etc can not be explained by rational methods either. Does that give them any more or less credit than belief in god?
Its theists that interpret and jump to conclusions. Science accepts possibilities but is prepared to investigate and reach rational decisions, based on positive evidence.
Again, who said you are stupid, or are you transferring your emotions onto other posters? I think people who steadfastly follow an irrational theist doctrine and do not explore other doctrines and alternative non-religious reasoning, or accept possibilities over faith, are more blinkered than those that do those things.
trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
I never said that you actually truely thought that. You just didn't realize it. I was just making a point, not name calling.......
And I was once Catholic. So what's your point?
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="aliend"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. trix5817
Isn't it impossible for a god to be outside our unverse because then he/she/it would be unable to influence our universe in any way? (because energy is constant)
It's not something science can prove/drisprove. Because he lives outside of it doesn't mean he can't come in. It's like he's looking into our space/time domain from outside. It's just...not something your brain, or my brain, or anyone's brain can fully wrap around and understand...that's why it's supernatural.
It's supernatural if we can't understand something? What? Explain this....
People didn't know that the Earth was round. I guess that is "supernatural".
Dogs can't understand algebra, therefore according to your logic, it's supernatural....
Religion is just a placeholder for the unknown, of which humans fear.
Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
Next time, try to be a little less hypocritical next time, okay? I'm not the one jumping to conclusions, you are. Did I ever stated that you were an idiot? No. Did you generalize me, yes?
It's you're reading comprehension that's lacking, not mine. You stated that God is supernatural, therefor we cannot fully understand this supernatural being, correct? I questioned this theory of yours. Get over it. We (humans) give ourselves too much credit. We cannot fully comprehend everything, just like a dog can't comprehend algebra (as I'ved stated many times...).
You belive that God has always existed, right? Then what makes you think that the universe has not always existed? The point is, we have no idea how the universe was created. But being humans, we have to try and fill in that gap of the unknown with something, religion.
Yo, you didn't question MY theory. You took what I said and twisted it, as if I thought everything unexplainable was supernatural. In doing that you tried making me look stupid. So did you state I was an idiot? No. Did you imply it? Yes. I could care less if you question my theory of God being supernatural which is why it's hard to understand...but you stated that my theory and the theory that it's supernatural that dogs can't do algebra were the same, and that's twisting what I originally said.
It just pisses me off when people turn things that other people say around.
[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="aliend"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. jesseandnikki
Isn't it impossible for a god to be outside our unverse because then he/she/it would be unable to influence our universe in any way? (because energy is constant)
It's not something science can prove/drisprove. Because he lives outside of it doesn't mean he can't come in. It's like he's looking into our space/time domain from outside. It's just...not something your brain, or my brain, or anyone's brain can fully wrap around and understand...that's why it's supernatural.
It's supernatural if we can't understand something? What? Explain this....
People didn't know that the Earth was round. I guess that is "supernatural".
Dogs can't understand algebra, therefore according to your logic, it's supernatural....
Religion is just a placeholder for the unknown, of which humans fear.
Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
Next time, try to be a little less hypocritical next time, okay? I'm not the one jumping to conclusions, you are. Did I ever stated that you were an idiot? No. Did you generalize me, yes?
It's you're reading comprehension that's lacking, not mine. You stated that God is supernatural, therefor we cannot fully understand this supernatural being, correct? I questioned this theory of yours. Get over it. We (humans) give ourselves too much credit. We cannot fully comprehend everything, just like a dog can't comprehend algebra (as I'ved stated many times...).
You belive that God has always existed, right? Then what makes you think that the universe has not always existed? The point is, we have no idea how the universe was created. But being humans, we have to try and fill in that gap of the unknown with something, religion.
Yo, you didn't question MY theory. You took what I said and twisted it, as if I thought everything unexplainable was supernatural. In doing that you tried making me look stupid. So did you state I was an idiot? No. Did you imply it? Yes. I could care less if you question my theory of God being supernatural which is why it's hard to understand...but you stated that my theory and the theory that it's supernatural that dogs can't do algebra were the same, and that's twisting what I originally said.
It just pisses me off when people turn things that other people say around.
It's called trying to make a point. I never called you an idiot, which you assumed I implied. Yet you implied that I assumed that.
I didn't twist anything. I put your theory in question because it's using flawed logic. That's all.
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
trix5817
Who said you were an idiot?
Supernatural means beyond explaination beyond natural laws. So they are not hard to understand, they are impossible to understand rationally. Other supposed supernatural things - ghosts, ufos, psychics etc can not be explained by rational methods either. Does that give them any more or less credit than belief in god?
Its theists that interpret and jump to conclusions. Science accepts possibilities but is prepared to investigate and reach rational decisions, based on positive evidence.
Again, who said you are stupid, or are you transferring your emotions onto other posters? I think people who steadfastly follow an irrational theist doctrine and do not explore other doctrines and alternative non-religious reasoning, or accept possibilities over faith, are more blinkered than those that do those things.
trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
I never said that you actually truely thought that. You just didn't realize it. I was just making a point, not name calling.......
And I was once Catholic. So what's your point?
My point to saying I was once aetheist was just letting you know that I once shared views with you...but I changed. Just letting you know I wasn't raised in a church so I was able to find my faith on my own and not be forced into it. I wasn't making a real point to the argument, just a little tid-bit so you didn't think I was being overly biased.
It's called trying to make a point. I never called you an idiot, which you assumed I implied. Yet you implied that I assumed that.
I didn't twist anything. I put your theory in question because it's using flawed logic. That's all.
trix5817
My theory simply says God is supernatural which is why we can't understand his presence. What's not logical about that?
You're the one that took it as if I thought everying that can't be explained is supernatural, which would be flawed logic. So technically you misinterpretted what I was saying.
trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
jesseandnikki
The assumption is yours. Are other people responsible for things you assume?
The responses to your posts seem fair enough. If you can't use rebuttal on the assertions made against your statements, then resporting to implied insults does little to improve forward or clarify your argument.
What made you change from an being an "aethist" to haveing faith in an "irrational theist doctrine", as you put it?
[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]Wow...no. I like how all you people jump to the conclusion that people who believe in God must be idiots.
My point was that God is supernatural, which is why we can't fully understand it, not vise versa. Try reading into things so you don't get confused next time, okay? It's not that everything we don't understand is supernatural...it's that supernatural things are hard to understand. Get your head out of your *** and pay attention.
Is that better? You couldn't figure out that's what I meant? Geez I feel like I'm talking to fifth graders sometimes. You're so narrow minded you only see what you want to see; you can't sit there and think "oh, he probably meant this", you have to jump to the conclusion that I'm stupid because we believe in two different things which only proves to me your ignorance. Try stepping out of the box sometime.
EDIT: I'm not sorry if that came off as rude. I don't like being patronized.
jesseandnikki
Who said you were an idiot?
Supernatural means beyond explaination beyond natural laws. So they are not hard to understand, they are impossible to understand rationally. Other supposed supernatural things - ghosts, ufos, psychics etc can not be explained by rational methods either. Does that give them any more or less credit than belief in god?
Its theists that interpret and jump to conclusions. Science accepts possibilities but is prepared to investigate and reach rational decisions, based on positive evidence.
Again, who said you are stupid, or are you transferring your emotions onto other posters? I think people who steadfastly follow an irrational theist doctrine and do not explore other doctrines and alternative non-religious reasoning, or accept possibilities over faith, are more blinkered than those that do those things.
trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
I never said that you actually truely thought that. You just didn't realize it. I was just making a point, not name calling.......
And I was once Catholic. So what's your point?
My point to saying I was once aetheist was just letting you know that I once shared views with you...but I changed. Just letting you know I wasn't raised in a church so I was able to find my faith on my own and not be forced into it. I wasn't making a real point to the argument, just a little tid-bit so you didn't think I was being overly biased.
Alright. Good to know.
[QUOTE="trix5817"]It's called trying to make a point. I never called you an idiot, which you assumed I implied. Yet you implied that I assumed that.
I didn't twist anything. I put your theory in question because it's using flawed logic. That's all.
jesseandnikki
My theory simply says God is supernatural which is why we can't understand his presence. What's not logical about that?
You're the one that took it as if I thought everying that can't be explained is supernatural, which would be flawed logic. So technically you misinterpretted what I was saying.
Supernatural things, by their definition, can not be explained. When we can explain something supernatural, it stops being supernatural. For example, spontaneous human combustion has been dispelled as a supernatural happening when the wick effect of slow burning flesh under fabric was discovered.
Logic is used as an aid to understanding. Logic can not explain supernatural occurrances. Its not logical to assume the existence of anything beyond nature.
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
RationalAtheist
The assumption is yours. Are other people responsible for things you assume?
The responses to your posts seem fair enough. If you can't use rebuttal on the assertions made against your statements, then resporting to implied insults does little to improve forward or clarify your argument.
What made you change from an being an "aethist" to haveing faith in an "irrational theist doctrine", as you put it?
Well, first off, you called it the "irrational theist doctrine" not me lol. I gained my faith when I became more open-minded to the possibility of a God, because when I was aetheist I was pretty narrow minded. It was a slow transistion so I couldn't really go through it step by step. It was a lot of things really. And since I've believed and accepted God my life has been a lot better. Coincidence? Maybe, but something deep inside me tells me it's not.
It's not something that someone who's never experienced it will understand. So trying to explain it to you is futile. But I remember how good life got shortly after I became a Christian believer.
I also apologize if I assumed he assumed I was idiot...but it wouldn't surprise me, seeing as how everytime I state my beliefs on here I always get patronized. And the way he worded his post really gave me that impression.
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
jesseandnikki
The assumption is yours. Are other people responsible for things you assume?
The responses to your posts seem fair enough. If you can't use rebuttal on the assertions made against your statements, then resporting to implied insults does little to improve forward or clarify your argument.
What made you change from an being an "aethist" to haveing faith in an "irrational theist doctrine", as you put it?
Well, first off, you called it the "irrational theist doctrine" not me lol. I gained my faith when I became more open-minded to the possibility of a God, because when I was aetheist I was pretty narrow minded. It was a slow transistion so I couldn't really go through it step by step. It was a lot of things really. And since I've believed and accepted God my life has been a lot better. Coincidence? Maybe, but something deep inside me tells me it's not.
It's not something that someone who's never experienced it will understand. So trying to explain it to you is futile. But I remember how good life got shortly after I became a Christian believer.
I also apologize if I assumed he assumed I was idiot...but it wouldn't surprise me, seeing as how everytime I state my beliefs on here I always get patronized. And the way he worded his post really gave me that impression.
What about the people whose, once they started following Christianity, life became terrible? What about the people whose religion isn't Christianity who have a good life? I became much more open minded and started to live a better life when I stopped following Christianity. How do you explain that?
I have no problem with religion or people who are agnositic. It's organized religion that I dislike.
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="trix5817"]It's called trying to make a point. I never called you an idiot, which you assumed I implied. Yet you implied that I assumed that.
I didn't twist anything. I put your theory in question because it's using flawed logic. That's all.
RationalAtheist
My theory simply says God is supernatural which is why we can't understand his presence. What's not logical about that?
You're the one that took it as if I thought everying that can't be explained is supernatural, which would be flawed logic. So technically you misinterpretted what I was saying.
Supernatural things, by their definition, can not be explained. When we can explain something supernatural, it stops being supernatural. For example, spontaneous human combustion has been dispelled as a supernatural happening when the wick effect of slow burning flesh under fabric was discovered.
Logic is used as an aid to understanding. Logic can not explain supernatural occurrances. Its not logical to assume the existence of anything beyond nature.
Because of my faith it is perfectly logical to believe in a supernatural being. So I guess this means that this argument has no conclusion because it depends on the individual's faith (which was obvious in the beginning).
Anyway, this has been fun.
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
trix5817
The assumption is yours. Are other people responsible for things you assume?
The responses to your posts seem fair enough. If you can't use rebuttal on the assertions made against your statements, then resporting to implied insults does little to improve forward or clarify your argument.
What made you change from an being an "aethist" to haveing faith in an "irrational theist doctrine", as you put it?
Well, first off, you called it the "irrational theist doctrine" not me lol. I gained my faith when I became more open-minded to the possibility of a God, because when I was aetheist I was pretty narrow minded. It was a slow transistion so I couldn't really go through it step by step. It was a lot of things really. And since I've believed and accepted God my life has been a lot better. Coincidence? Maybe, but something deep inside me tells me it's not.
It's not something that someone who's never experienced it will understand. So trying to explain it to you is futile. But I remember how good life got shortly after I became a Christian believer.
I also apologize if I assumed he assumed I was idiot...but it wouldn't surprise me, seeing as how everytime I state my beliefs on here I always get patronized. And the way he worded his post really gave me that impression.
What about the people whose, once they started following Christianity, life became terrible? What about the people whose religion isn't Christianity who have a good life? I became much more open minded and started to live a better life when I stopped following Christianity. How do you explain that?
I have no problem with religion or people who are agnositic. It's organized religion that I dislike.
I can't explain it because I'm not you. I don't know all the factors of your life that might lead to an explanation.
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
jesseandnikki
The assumption is yours. Are other people responsible for things you assume?
The responses to your posts seem fair enough. If you can't use rebuttal on the assertions made against your statements, then resporting to implied insults does little to improve forward or clarify your argument.
What made you change from an being an "aethist" to haveing faith in an "irrational theist doctrine", as you put it?
Well, first off, you called it the "irrational theist doctrine" not me lol. I gained my faith when I became more open-minded to the possibility of a God, because when I was aetheist I was pretty narrow minded. It was a slow transistion so I couldn't really go through it step by step. It was a lot of things really. And since I've believed and accepted God my life has been a lot better. Coincidence? Maybe, but something deep inside me tells me it's not.
It's not something that someone who's never experienced it will understand. So trying to explain it to you is futile. But I remember how good life got shortly after I became a Christian believer.
I also apologize if I assumed he assumed I was idiot...but it wouldn't surprise me, seeing as how everytime I state my beliefs on here I always get patronized. And the way he worded his post really gave me that impression.
You did too! Why not read you rown posts? (I've quoted it above.)
I'm glad your life has improved. Are you less troubled by nagging questions now you have a solid faith?
Another assumption you make - You assume I have not lived a christian life.
Trying to explain is not futile. I am not your only audience in this public forum. It seems like a cop-out to say "if you haven't experienced it you won't understand it". Suppose I have experienced it, first hand?
If your beliefs conflict with rationality and reason, I'm not surprised why people offer you contrary viewpoints to your own. If you take them as patronising, then why offer those easily countered views - as facts - in the first place?
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]trix5817 assumed I was an idiot by trying to say that I thought dogs can't due algebra thus that's supernatural. Please, as if you can't tell when someone is being patronized and made out to be an idiot.
And just to let you know, I used to be aetheist so it's not like I've only believed in the Bible or "an irrational theist doctrine" all my life.
RationalAtheist
The assumption is yours. Are other people responsible for things you assume?
The responses to your posts seem fair enough. If you can't use rebuttal on the assertions made against your statements, then resporting to implied insults does little to improve forward or clarify your argument.
What made you change from an being an "aethist" to haveing faith in an "irrational theist doctrine", as you put it?
Well, first off, you called it the "irrational theist doctrine" not me lol. I gained my faith when I became more open-minded to the possibility of a God, because when I was aetheist I was pretty narrow minded. It was a slow transistion so I couldn't really go through it step by step. It was a lot of things really. And since I've believed and accepted God my life has been a lot better. Coincidence? Maybe, but something deep inside me tells me it's not.
It's not something that someone who's never experienced it will understand. So trying to explain it to you is futile. But I remember how good life got shortly after I became a Christian believer.
I also apologize if I assumed he assumed I was idiot...but it wouldn't surprise me, seeing as how everytime I state my beliefs on here I always get patronized. And the way he worded his post really gave me that impression.
You did too! Why not read you rown posts? (I've quoted it above.)
I'm glad your life has improved. Are you less troubled by nagging questions now you have a solid faith?
Another assumption you make - You assume I have not lived a christian life.
Trying to explain is not futile. I am not your only audience in this public forum. It seems like a cop-out to say "if you haven't experienced it you won't understand it". Suppose I have experienced it, first hand?
If your beliefs conflict with rationality and reason, I'm not surprised why people offer you contrary viewpoints to your own. If you take them as patronising, then why offer those easily countered views - as facts - in the first place?
When I said it was "irrational theist doctrine" I was originally quoting you. lol. The reason I originally put quotes around is because that's what YOU called it. Maybe I have you confused with someone else? But why would I call it that when I'm sitting here defending it?
And I also never assumed you never lived a christian life. You assumed that I assumed. Sound familiar? I did that on purpose to see if that's how you'd respond and you did. I said "It's not something that someone who's never experienced it will understand."...never once did I single you out, it was a generalized statement to anyone who has never experienced it.
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="trix5817"]It's called trying to make a point. I never called you an idiot, which you assumed I implied. Yet you implied that I assumed that.
I didn't twist anything. I put your theory in question because it's using flawed logic. That's all.
jesseandnikki
My theory simply says God is supernatural which is why we can't understand his presence. What's not logical about that?
You're the one that took it as if I thought everying that can't be explained is supernatural, which would be flawed logic. So technically you misinterpretted what I was saying.
Supernatural things, by their definition, can not be explained. When we can explain something supernatural, it stops being supernatural. For example, spontaneous human combustion has been dispelled as a supernatural happening when the wick effect of slow burning flesh under fabric was discovered.
Logic is used as an aid to understanding. Logic can not explain supernatural occurrances. Its not logical to assume the existence of anything beyond nature.
Because of my faith it is perfectly logical to believe in a supernatural being. So I guess this means that this argument has no conclusion because it depends on the individual's faith (which was obvious in the beginning).
Anyway, this has been fun.
Nope. Logic is an unassailable philosophical tool used for reasonong. It has rules. Your use of logic is not valid for the reasons I've outlined previously.
[QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. RationalAtheist
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
A slap in the face perhaps, but there are many other ways in which a god would provide proof of their existence.
I agree that believing in god is harder than not believing in god. Is that because you have to suspend the rational world view, that has so much significance in every day life, and resort to irrational faith without any evidence?
If something is hard to believe, does that make it true? What about algebra dogs? Can they?
I didn't say that being hard to believe automatically makes it true. What I mean is that you have to realise that people who believe in God aren't just stupid. People usually have reasons for doing something that is hard. If they didn't they would choose the easy way. I was also talking not just about believing but the conciquences of believing. It's not easy for anyone to admit that there is a being that is superior to them(something that you have to do if you believe in God). If you believe in Him you must obey Him. Those are serious conciquences that many people don't want to face up to. Therefore they don't believe in God. The actual believing is easy, the dealing with that belief is the hard part. Besides the fact that you have people call you ignorant because you do believe. Jesus even says in the Bible, "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and youwill be hated by all nations for my name's sake." (Matthew 24:9) Believing in God takes guts.
I believe there are people who are superior to me. Its not difficult at all - its obvious. People excel over me in all areas of endeavour. Its also easy to prove. To think that you are superior to others is both arrogant and irrational.
I mean superior in all possible ways, not just in areas.
This talk of obeying - What exactly are you obeying? Are you now talking of a christian god, or islamic god, or a hindu god? Reasons for belief need not be rational reasons.
It doesn't matter. If you believe in God you must also know that he should be obeyed. This is true because God would be perfect and He would set the standard of what's right and what's wrong. Many people have different Ideas of what his standards are that's why there are different religions. I personally think the catholic religion is the correct way but it all starts with believing that some sort of god does exist.
There are far more compelling reasons not to believe in god than not facing up to obeying someone/thing, or that someone/thing is superior to them.
Like what?
The religious constructs (salvation and deliverance from evil) are there to make faith comforting. Its all too easy to believe without questioning. Its easy to live an untroubled religious life. This is true, since questioning faith has been - and still is - frowned upon.
At least with the Catholic church it's not that cut and dry. There are a lot of rules that are often verry hard to follow. It's not just an, "I'm saved so I don't have to worry about anything" thing. Anyone who thinks that, is wrong. For me it's about doing God's will (which is often very hard and often goes against my own desires).
Maybe in the US questioning faith is frowned apon but not all over the world.
Believing in god takes no guts, but trying to impression others with those ill-founded views probably will incite some derision against you. You have a choice to keep your christian beliefs personal and not discuss them, which would then allow you to live an untroubled life. As a christian, your knowledge will be called into question when it conflicts with natural and physical laws.
Natural and phisical laws don't conflict with what I believe; neither do they prove it. I never try to cram my religion in other people's faces, but I do stick up for it if it is being questioned. I'm not trying to convert anyone here. I'm just giving my point of veiw same as you are.
Matthew was written in 60 to 90 AD. How do you know that Jesus really did say that quote? When was the last christian put to death for their views?
My Grampa can easily remember something from 40 years ago so why Wouldn't Matthew be able to? If you have to personally experience something just to be able to believe it then you can't take anyones word for anything.
Hitler murdered manyChristians along with Jews. also http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n35_v114/ai_20114099
When I said it was "irrational theist doctrine" I was originally quoting you. lol. The reason I originally put quotes around is because that's what YOU called it. Maybe I have you confused with someone else? But why would I call it that when I'm sitting here defending it?
jesseandnikki
I know yo uwere re-stating what I said, but you said it too.
I don't know why you'd re-use my term like that, since you used it to state your belief!
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]When I said it was "irrational theist doctrine" I was originally quoting you. lol. The reason I originally put quotes around is because that's what YOU called it. Maybe I have you confused with someone else? But why would I call it that when I'm sitting here defending it?
RationalAtheist
I know yo uwere re-stating what I said, but you said it too.
I don't know why you'd re-use my term like that, since you used it to state your belief!
Ok, I don't understand what's so difficult. I said something like this yes? I believe in the Bible or the "irrational theist doctrine". The reason I restated it is to reference what you said. Maybe if I had said this you wouldn't be so confused.
I believe in the Bible, or as you call it, the "irrational theist doctrine". Dude, I was just relating what you said to what I was saying and was in no way calling it an irrational doctrine.
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"][QUOTE="trix5817"]It's called trying to make a point. I never called you an idiot, which you assumed I implied. Yet you implied that I assumed that.
I didn't twist anything. I put your theory in question because it's using flawed logic. That's all.
RationalAtheist
My theory simply says God is supernatural which is why we can't understand his presence. What's not logical about that?
You're the one that took it as if I thought everying that can't be explained is supernatural, which would be flawed logic. So technically you misinterpretted what I was saying.
Supernatural things, by their definition, can not be explained. When we can explain something supernatural, it stops being supernatural. For example, spontaneous human combustion has been dispelled as a supernatural happening when the wick effect of slow burning flesh under fabric was discovered.
Logic is used as an aid to understanding. Logic can not explain supernatural occurrances. Its not logical to assume the existence of anything beyond nature.
Because of my faith it is perfectly logical to believe in a supernatural being. So I guess this means that this argument has no conclusion because it depends on the individual's faith (which was obvious in the beginning).
Anyway, this has been fun.
Nope. Logic is an unassailable philosophical tool used for reasonong. It has rules. Your use of logic is not valid for the reasons I've outlined previously.
It still depends on faith. If I believe that a supernatural being is reasonable then my theory is logical. You think just because you believe in something that that's what's right.
"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"
m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh
kirk4ever
if you really were religious you'd understand why this question is stupid. God always existed. Thats what you are supposed to believe. Infinite past and future.
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]God exists outside of our space/time domain. He wasn't created by anyone or anything. He just is. He's the supernatural being that has omniscience perspective on everything in the world because he lives in infinity. P47Rotgut
Says who?
You won't believe unless God comes down and slaps you in the face, will you? There is more reason to believe in God than to not to. I think a lot of people choose not to because believing in God is harder than not believing in Him.
A slap in the face perhaps, but there are many other ways in which a god would provide proof of their existence.
I agree that believing in god is harder than not believing in god. Is that because you have to suspend the rational world view, that has so much significance in every day life, and resort to irrational faith without any evidence?
If something is hard to believe, does that make it true? What about algebra dogs? Can they?
I didn't say that being hard to believe automatically makes it true. What I mean is that you have to realise that people who believe in God aren't just stupid. People usually have reasons for doing something that is hard. If they didn't they would choose the easy way. I was also talking not just about believing but the conciquences of believing. It's not easy for anyone to admit that there is a being that is superior to them(something that you have to do if you believe in God). If you believe in Him you must obey Him. Those are serious conciquences that many people don't want to face up to. Therefore they don't believe in God. The actual believing is easy, the dealing with that belief is the hard part. Besides the fact that you have people call you ignorant because you do believe. Jesus even says in the Bible, "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and youwill be hated by all nations for my name's sake." (Matthew 24:9) Believing in God takes guts.
I believe there are people who are superior to me. Its not difficult at all - its obvious. People excel over me in all areas of endeavour. Its also easy to prove. To think that you are superior to others is both arrogant and irrational.
1. I mean superior in all possible ways, not just in areas.
This talk of obeying - What exactly are you obeying? Are you now talking of a christian god, or islamic god, or a hindu god? Reasons for belief need not be rational reasons.
2, It doesn't matter. If you believe in God you must also know that he should be obeyed. This is true because God would be perfect and He would set the standard of what's right and what's wrong. Many people have different Ideas of what his standards are that's why there are different religions. I personally think the catholic religion is the correct way but it all starts with believing that some sort of god does exist.
There are far more compelling reasons not to believe in god than not facing up to obeying someone/thing, or that someone/thing is superior to them.
3. Like what?
The religious constructs (salvation and deliverance from evil) are there to make faith comforting. Its all too easy to believe without questioning. Its easy to live an untroubled religious life. This is true, since questioning faith has been - and still is - frowned upon.
4. At least with the Catholic church it's not that cut and dry. There are a lot of rules that are often verry hard to follow. It's not just an, "I'm saved so I don't have to worry about anything" thing. Anyone who thinks that, is wrong. For me it's about doing God's will (which is often very hard and often goes against my own desires).
Maybe in the US questioning faith is frowned apon but not all over the world.
Believing in god takes no guts, but trying to impression others with those ill-founded views probably will incite some derision against you. You have a choice to keep your christian beliefs personal and not discuss them, which would then allow you to live an untroubled life. As a christian, your knowledge will be called into question when it conflicts with natural and physical laws.
5. Natural and phisical laws don't conflict with what I believe; neither do they prove it. I never try to cram my religion in other people's faces, but I do stick up for it if it is being questioned. I'm not trying to convert anyone here. I'm just giving my point of veiw same as you are.
Matthew was written in 60 to 90 AD. How do you know that Jesus really did say that quote? When was the last christian put to death for their views?
6. My Grampa can easily remember something from 40 years ago so why Wouldn't Matthew be able to? If you have to personally experience something just to be able to believe it then you can't take anyones word for anything.
Hitler murdered manyChristians along with Jews. also http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n35_v114/ai_20114099
1. I'm sure there are existing people superior to me in all possible ways. Do you not think there are people superior to you in all possible ways?
2. Why must god be perfect? Why does it follow that god should be obeyed? Deists say otherwise. Who is to say you are correct in choosing catholicism. Would the punishment for an incorrect god choice be eternal damnation in another religion? Is believing in a god, regardless of which one, better than not believing in any of them? How about Odin? Thor? the Sun god? Doesn't the bible have something to say about false idols?
3. Like the scientific framework and the scientific method.
4. What catholic rules are so hard to follow? Are evangelical christians wrong, in those terms?
5. Yes they do. They stop at the supernatural.
6. Can your grampa remember verbatim what someone said to someone else 40 to 60 years ago?
Extra Hitler info - Hitler's many published and recorded radio and rally speeches talked about christianity and god as being reasons for the german nation to rise and to justify the second world war as christian nazi germany's destiny. Please research Hitler's political and war speeches and his writings in Mein Kampf, before disputing this fact. Else, I'll start posting them here.
It still depends on faith. If I believe that a supernatural being is reasonable then my theory is logical. You think just because you believe in something that that's what's right.
jesseandnikki
Sorry, but thinking something is logical does not make it so. Resoning can be rational or irrational.
My beliefs are in the correct use of the scientific framework, including deductive logic, so this is an important concept to understand.
Ok, I don't understand what's so difficult. I said something like this yes? I believe in the Bible or the "irrational theist doctrine". The reason I restated it is to reference what you said. Maybe if I had said this you wouldn't be so confused.
I believe in the Bible, or as you call it, the "irrational theist doctrine". Dude, I was just relating what you said to what I was saying and was in no way calling it an irrational doctrine.
jesseandnikki
You did not qualify why you added it. One could naturally assume you were explaining the bible. To me, the very fact that you added it as an embellishment to your belief in the bible at least recognises the nature of the bible. You could have used the word "not" but you chose not to. At least, its confusing. You also said that you did not write it, when you did, albeit, afer I did.
I still contend that the bible is an irrational theist doctrine... The explanations of many events in both testements do not hold up to scientific scrutiny or natural laws. Despite this, many christians accept this and cite faith as the jump from rational to irrational belief.
really when it comes down to it, everybody believes deep down that there is an answer to all of this. i hate when atheists say, oh well i believe there may be a force responsible for universe.....the force?! well what exactly is it? its stupid being 100% atheist. I'm not very religious because theres too many different religions and no one is alive from when any of these religions are started, so theyre all based on very old passed down stories, and religions all seem to be currupt (well, at least the most popular ones). why do you think they stress you to believe so hard in religion, its because they know they have no real answers. I spent 4 years in catholic high school, and it resulted in me becoming less faithful than i ever was. Everyday in theology all i would find my self doing is asking unanswerable question after unanswerable question. I've long decided to try to live my life the best i can, morally and successfully (which totally complement each other) learning as much as i can about the world and retain a belief that there is a God, but you won't learn anything new about God from anyone else. I get most of my inspiration from guys like Einstein, who's entire work was based on trying to achieve equation of everything, basically tapping into the mind of God, but of course he probably never came close. We humans are pretty primitive. I learned that by watching people laugh at monkeys at the zoo, ever since then (i was young) whenever i see large crowds clapping it makes me think how weird it is. but its all good, its the one good thing about being human, we still can enjoy those simple things. Also draw a lot of inspiration from Carl Sagan. I like Sagan and Einstein because they remained faithful as scientists and look at the impact they made on the world. Einstein moreso than Sagan, but Sagan was a genious too.ronniepage588
You say its stupid to be 100% atheist, then go on to cite Einstein as a genius.
Did you know that Einstein was an atheist?
Rational Athiest,
- When you quote, dont quote so many posts that you take up half the page. (just a thought)
Autobon
Would you like to be mod?
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]It still depends on faith. If I believe that a supernatural being is reasonable then my theory is logical. You think just because you believe in something that that's what's right.
RationalAtheist
Sorry, but thinking something is logical does not make it so. Resoning can be rational or irrational.
My beliefs are in the correct use of the scientific framework, including deductive logic, so this is an important concept to understand.
That's not what I said. I was saying that my belief in God makes it logical to me. My reasoning that God is a supernatural being that lives outside our space/time domain is rational to me. Maybe it's not logical or rational to you, but that's why you don't believe it in the first place.
So there you have it. The reason I believe it is because it's logical in my opinion. The reason you don't believe is because it's not logical in your opinion.
You're word against mine. Have a good day. I'm done.
That's not what I said. I was saying that my belief in God makes it logical to me. My reasoning that God is a supernatural being that lives outside our space/time domain is rational to me. Maybe it's not logical or rational to you, but that's why you don't believe it in the first place.
So there you have it. The reason I believe it is because it's logical in my opinion. The reason you don't believe is because it's not logical in your opinion.
You're word against mine. Have a good day. I'm done.
jesseandnikki
You keep missing my point that logic is not subjective or matter for opinion. Rationality is not a personal value system. They are both objective methods of reasoning, using physical principles.
It's the scientific framework's methodologies against your word. If you understood more about rational argument and logical deduction, you would use those terms more correctly.
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Would you like to be mod?Autobon
Would you like to take some good advice once in a while? Or do you want to stay stuck writing crappy posts for the rest of your life?
Good advice?
Are my posts crappy because I quote too much?
I must have missed all of your brilliant posts.
[QUOTE="jesseandnikki"]That's not what I said. I was saying that my belief in God makes it logical to me. My reasoning that God is a supernatural being that lives outside our space/time domain is rational to me. Maybe it's not logical or rational to you, but that's why you don't believe it in the first place.
So there you have it. The reason I believe it is because it's logical in my opinion. The reason you don't believe is because it's not logical in your opinion.
You're word against mine. Have a good day. I'm done.
RationalAtheist
You keep missing my point that logic is not subjective or matter for opinion. Rationality is not a personal value system. They are both objective methods of reasoning, using physical principles.
It's the scientific framework's methodologies against your word. If you understood more about rational argument and logical deduction, you would use those terms more correctly.
I guess I just can't explain exactly what I'm trying to say as thoroughly as I want to, because you're missing my point as well. It's still your word against mine. The only reason you think it's irrational to believe in God is because you don't believe...and that's also why you don't believe. That's why you think you're so right, and I think I'm so right.
It's your word, and my word. I think you're wrong. You think I'm wrong. That what it all boils down to.
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