GOD-Who created GOD?

Atheism is a lack of faith. It's an "I don't care attitude".P47Rotgut

[QUOTE="P47Rotgut"]God is the supreme beingfrom which everything comes. In fact time was created by God. God is not affected by time because He created it. He is outside of time. In a sense, God is existence, which is why we owe Him obedience. Does that make sense?quiglythegreat

I gues I could have said it better. What I mean is that God, in whatever form you believe in, is the being that everything and everyone came from.Our existence is a great gift. God also set some rules. Such as, "love your neighbor as yourself". Because we owe our very existence to God, we have no choice but to fallow His commandments. We are part of His world so we have to follow His rules. Making someone love you and having them love you of their own free will are two radically different things.That is why God also gave us free will. He wants us to believe and love Him of our own free will. Does that make any more sense?

I believe the correct answer would be Chuck Norris' Mother and Father.

(Forgive me for being 3 years late on Chuck Norris jokes.)

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"]God is the supreme beingfrom which everything comes. In fact time was created by God. God is not affected by time because He created it. He is outside of time. In a sense, God is existence, which is why we owe Him obedience. Does that make sense?P47Rotgut

I gues I could have said it better. What I mean is that God, in whatever form you believe in, is the being that everything and everyone came from.Our existence is a great gift. God also set some rules. Such as, "love your neighbor as yourself". Because we owe our very existence to God, we have no choice but to fallow His commandments. We are part of His world so we have to follow His rules. Making someone love you and having them love you of their own free will are two radically different things.That is why God also gave us free will. He wants us to believe and love Him of our own free will. Does that make any more sense?

[

First of all, it's not unconditional servitude. God only asks what is best for us anyway. For instance, "Love your neihbor as yourself". Following this rule makes us and those aroud us happier than if we hate each other. Sure maybe there is someone that you do hate for good reason. But maybethat's becausethat person is not loving others, including you?

First of all, it's not unconditional servitude. God only asks what is best for us anyway. For instance, "Love your neihbor as yourself". Following this rule makes us and those aroud us happier than if we hate each other. Sure maybe there is someone that you do hate for good reason. But maybethat's becausethat person is not loving others, including you?

P47Rotgut

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you do hate somone. It was merely a "what if" thing.

I agree with you there. You see, evil is is the absence of the necessary good. All God wants is for us to give the necessary good so that there won't be any evil. Which is why you can't say that God created evil. Evil is not a thing; it's a negative.

Sure maybe there is someone that you do hate for good reason. But maybethat's becausethat person is not loving others, including you?

What I mean by this is that even if it is true, all you can and should worry about is your part.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you do hate somone. It was merely a "what if" thing.

I agree with you there. You see, evil is is the absence of the necessary good. All God wants is for us to give the necessary good so that there won't be any evil. Which is why you can't say that God created evil. Evil is not a thing; it's a negative.

P47Rotgut

Sure maybe there is someone that you do hate for good reason. But maybethat's becausethat person is not loving others, including you?

What I mean by this is that even if it is true, all you can and should worry about is your part.

P47Rotgut

Sorry, I'm not the best at putting what I mean to say into words.P47Rotgut

I think it's impossible to worry about only your part. You intrinsically care about any living being you encounter.

I mean you can only controll your actions.

I think it's impossible to worry about only your part. You intrinsically care about any living being you encounter.

I mean you can only controll your actions.

P47Rotgut

[QUOTE="P47Rotgut"]

I think it's impossible to worry about only your part. You intrinsically care about any living being you encounter.

I mean you can only controll your actions.

quiglythegreat

Yes, but I also don't think that life as we know it is all there is. I am sure there is an afterlife which is affected by our actions in this life.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"]

I think it's impossible to worry about only your part. You intrinsically care about any living being you encounter.

I mean you can only controll your actions.

P47Rotgut

Yes, but I also don't think that life as we know it is all there is. I am sure there is an afterlife which is affected by our actions in this life.

I think the main thing is that no matter what you believe, you should try and do what you think is the right thing to do, wheather it's easy or not.P47Rotgut

I don't know if I believe in an afterlife. I believe that all life is so similar that really, we're just shifting forms again and again through life and death, I think that makes sense.

Personally I find that harder to believe in than an afterlife.

Do you ever read the Bible Even if you don't aggree with everything it says, it still has a lot of cool stuff in it. It gives you something to think about anyway.

[QUOTE="P47Rotgut"]

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="P47Rotgut"]God is the supreme beingfrom which everything comes. In fact time was created by God. God is not affected by time because He created it. He is outside of time. In a sense, God is existence, which is why we owe Him obedience. Does that make sense?quiglythegreat

I gues I could have said it better. What I mean is that God, in whatever form you believe in, is the being that everything and everyone came from.Our existence is a great gift. God also set some rules. Such as, "love your neighbor as yourself". Because we owe our very existence to God, we have no choice but to fallow His commandments. We are part of His world so we have to follow His rules. Making someone love you and having them love you of their own free will are two radically different things.That is why God also gave us free will. He wants us to believe and love Him of our own free will. Does that make any more sense?

Forget the "owing" part. It's not really obeying him for that, it's obedience from love.

I Existence is hard to understand, even for an atheist. That's why religion requires some faith. Atheism is a lack of faith. It's an "I don't care attitude".P47Rotgut

Many atheists understand existence very well - (I obviously can't speak for all of them). If you want to do some independent research on links between intelligence and faith, go right ahead! You may be surprised by your findings! Were it not for your insulting comment, I would not have bought this up.

Atheism is a lack of faith. Faith is belief without reason. So I believe atheism is a positive step towards rational thought and faith is a weak acceptance without questioning. Atheism certainly is not an "I don't care" attitude. You reveal a lack of understanding when you say that.

[QUOTE="P47Rotgut"]I Existence is hard to understand, even for an atheist. That's why religion requires some faith. Atheism is a lack of faith. It's an "I don't care attitude".RationalAtheist

Many atheists understand existence very well - (I obviously can't speak for all of them). If you want to do some independent research on links between intelligence and faith, go right ahead! You may be surprised by your findings! Were it not for your insulting comment, I would not have bought this up.

Atheism is a lack of faith. Faith is belief without reason. So I believe atheism is a positive step towards rational thought and faith is a weak acceptance without questioning. Atheism certainly is not an "I don't care" attitude. You reveal a lack of understanding when you say that.

I agree. I too am an atheist and that's because I cannot believe that an invisible being created everything and that a virgin had a baby that was the son of that invisible being. That to me just sounds like a whole bunch of hocus pocus and it's hard for me to believe. But it was even harder to give up my Christian religion, but once I did I felt more enlightened and not tied down to a religion that was more than likely created by man.

Many atheists understand existence very well - (I obviously can't speak for all of them). If you want to do some independent research on links between intelligence and faith, go right ahead! You may be surprised by your findings! Were it not for your insulting comment, I would not have bought this up.

Atheism is a lack of faith. Faith is belief without reason. So I believe atheism is a positive step towards rational thought and faith is a weak acceptance without questioning. Atheism certainly is not an "I don't care" attitude. You reveal a lack of understanding when you say that.RationalAtheist

Not really. Though, there maybe differences of what people think faith is.

"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld." -Hebrews 11:1

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Many atheists understand existence very well - (I obviously can't speak for all of them). If you want to do some independent research on links between intelligence and faith, go right ahead! You may be surprised by your findings! Were it not for your insulting comment, I would not have bought this up.

Atheism is a lack of faith. Faith is belief without reason. So I believe atheism is a positive step towards rational thought and faith is a weak acceptance without questioning. Atheism certainly is not an "I don't care" attitude. You reveal a lack of understanding when you say that.Revinh

Not really. Though, there maybe differences of what people think faith is.

"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld." -Hebrews 11:1

How can you infer your quote to mean anything other than my definition? Its one area where the bible and I agree.

EDIT: I define reason to mean rational deduction, rather than subjective aspiration.

Because it's not the same as your definition...Revinh

Care to explain, or are you going to leave it at that?

I guess it's a little hard to explain.

Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

I mean, having reasons for believing what you believe in.

Like, the earth, the universe, and everything HAS TO have been created, therefore there MUST be God who has always existed. Isn't that rational?

Or, for example, saying to a friend "I have faith in you" (suppose they're about to do something challenging). Why would you have faith in him? Because you know him. You have reasons to do so.

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

kirk4ever

I did, for I am SuperGod.

I guess it's a little hard to explain.

Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

I mean, having reasons for believing what you believe in.

Like, the earth, the universe, and everything HAS TO have been created, therefore there MUST be God who has always existed. Isn't that rational?

Or, for example, saying to a friend "I have faith in you" (suppose they're about to do something challenging). Why would you have faith in him? Because you know him. You have reasons to do so.

Revinh

What's to say the universe was not created from something else or has always existed. These hypotheses are just as believeable as god (more so for me), but faith means pinning your flag to one of them, then to deny the possibility of the others. That is not rational. Reasons can be rational or irrational, based on the supporting evidence or qualification.

You know of god (through your own subjective experience of religion), but I can't see how you know god like you know your friends. Friends take positive actions (speech, gesture, action, emotion) that can be quantified and that you can't control, whereas your "knowing" of god comes through religious observance and in developing a mental image of the deity you believe in within yourself.

If this friend was about to do something really challenging, I would hope they could do it, I would weigh up the possibilities of them succeeding or failing, support and motivate them (if appropriate) and egg them on, hoping they would succeed. I would not have the knowledge that they would succeed, so I would not have faith in them. No assured expectations there!

Here's an example, could I have faith in you to give me advice on whether those diet pills you link to in your sig (from edisonherz) have any impartial medical evidence supporting the claims made for them? Would I have to have faith to believe the claims made?

Well, it's not rational for me that our existence, the laws of the universe, has existed without an intelligent Creator.

I know God from studying the Bible. I know his actions in the past, present, and what he will do in the future.

It depends. If the friend has never lied and you know him well enough and he made a promise, you'd have faith that they'd keep their word.

I'm not sure what you're saying. I guess you would or you wouldn't take 'em.

Well, it's not rational for me that our existence, the laws of the universe, has existed without an intelligent Creator.

I know God from studying the Bible.

It depends. If the friend has never lied and you know him well enough and he made a promise, you'd have faith that they'd keep their word.

I'm not sure what you're saying. I guess you would or you wouldn't take 'em.

Revinh

Why is it not rational that an intelligent creator was not involved? (Now lets be careful with our double negatives here to make sure we're talking about the same thing.)

You'd hope a friend would keep a promise, but the nature of promises is that there is no guarantee they'll be kept. I'd always entertain the possibility that they may not. This strategy prepared me for alternative actions and for more possibilities. Suppose they don't. Your faith will have been misguided. Surely its better to hope and expect, but to believe without question sounds nieve.

Because it doesn't make sense. The earth is full of creations. It's perfectly suited for us. We couldn't have been products of unintelligent processes. Life can only come from preexistiing life, therefore there has to be a source of life (or life-giver).

But you're not believing without question. You have reasons to believe.

Because it doesn't make sense. The earth is full of creations. It's perfectly suited for us. We couldn't have been products of unintelligent processes. Life can only come from preexistiing life, therefore there has to be a source of life (or life-giver).

Revinh

.......You should read about evolution, and things concerning the creation of life on earth (early earth history).

Anyway i think the most likely option is that humans made God. We couldn't find an explenation for how, and why we were created. So we made one.

Because it doesn't make sense. The earth is full of creations. It's perfectly suited for us. We couldn't have been products of unintelligent processes. Life can only come from preexistiing life, therefore there has to be a source of life (or life-giver).

But you're not believing without question. You have reasons to believe.

Revinh

Why not?

Biological life can actually be created artifically. Scientific experiment has repeatably demonstrated that.

"Reasons" can be irrational. Rational reasoning would suggest that you are believing without questioning, hence having faith.

If you ask me (and nobody did), this topic isn't going anywhere. I posted a few times earlier, but I had no idea the thread would go on so long without any real progress. What are you expecting to get from this thread? Nobody's being convinced of anything they didn't come in believing, so what is this thread going? Nothing good, that's for sure.jalexbrown

What sort of progress are you expecting?

How do you know that no-one is influenced by what is written here. Do you know how many people (and not necessarily from Gamespot, thanks to google keyword links) read what is written here?

Why do you think "nothing good" will come of this thread if it continues?

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]If you ask me (and nobody did), this topic isn't going anywhere. I posted a few times earlier, but I had no idea the thread would go on so long without any real progress. What are you expecting to get from this thread? Nobody's being convinced of anything they didn't come in believing, so what is this thread going? Nothing good, that's for sure.RationalAtheist

What sort of progress are you expecting?

How do you know that no-one is influenced by what is written here. Do you know how many people (and not necessarily from Gamespot, thanks to google keyword links) read what is written here?

Why do you think "nothing good" will come of this thread if it continues?

Well, first off, it would've been nice if this thread had stayed on topic, but every page this thread is going off on a new topic that's not at all about what was originally asked. Every now and then the topic strolls back to the original topic, but it never takes it long to go in a whole new direction again. It just seems this thread isn't productive. It's a dumping site for any theory, philosophy, or belief people have. There's no structure or order on this thread. Everyone's just kind of going on about things...anything. No offense to the posters by any means, but I just don't see where this is going. Nobody's going to agree (I'll wager on it), so what good could come out of this thread?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]If you ask me (and nobody did), this topic isn't going anywhere. I posted a few times earlier, but I had no idea the thread would go on so long without any real progress. What are you expecting to get from this thread? Nobody's being convinced of anything they didn't come in believing, so what is this thread going? Nothing good, that's for sure.jalexbrown

What sort of progress are you expecting?

How do you know that no-one is influenced by what is written here. Do you know how many people (and not necessarily from Gamespot, thanks to google keyword links) read what is written here?

Why do you think "nothing good" will come of this thread if it continues?

Well, first off, it would've been nice if this thread had stayed on topic, but every page this thread is going off on a new topic that's not at all about what was originally asked. Every now and then the topic strolls back to the original topic, but it never takes it long to go in a whole new direction again. It just seems this thread isn't productive. It's a dumping site for any theory, philosophy, or belief people have. There's no structure or order on this thread. Everyone's just kind of going on about things...anything. No offense to the posters by any means, but I just don't see where this is going. Nobody's going to agree (I'll wager on it), so what good could come out of this thread?

I've been involved in long dialogues with several people here. I like to think I stay focused on the topic being discussed.

What do you expect? Structure? Order? On a gaming site - in the off topic forum - in a philosphical thread? I suggest you reduce your expecterations, or actively participate in the discussion, rather than whinging that "its not going anywhere" or "its not productive". If you don't see where this thread is going, or what is being discussed, does it mean everyone shares your view? Why do you think other people continue to use this thread then? Do you know how many people read it too?

Why not let the thread get on? Rather choose to discuss a point someones made, or if none of tham interest you, why not try another thread? Why not answer my questions, rather than repeat your last post?

Yay! Let's ask unlearned questions to people who've never thought seriously or studied the topic in the slightest! That's a sure way to get an answer! Who better to lead the blind than the blind, right?Dreams-Visions

- back to my Taco Burger.

Netherscourge

you live in cali?

Christians skirt around the question by saying that "God is beyond space and time". In other words since God isn't bound by time he's always existed. This is a rather lazy answer though. There's no reason it couldn't be applied to the universe as well (after all, time didn't exist until the universe came into existence. So technically speaking there never was a point when the universe didn't exist) which makes it completely unsatisfactory as an answer.gameguy6700

I always found that answer to be a total cop-out.

Well, seeing as how I've already added my two cents on the topic, I suppose I'll come out and ask this...

Why is God infinite? I suppose a better question would actually be how is God infinite? Using what method of logic or reasoning (that rules out any sort of bible defense) could you conclude that God is, in fact, infinite. Actually, using what method of logic or reasoning could you conclude that anything's infinite?

Now you know better than this. Your not supposed to ask questions like this, and along with why aren't dinosaurs mentioned in the bible, or anything outside of earth, or anything else really scientific.Morphic

I'm pretty sure dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible. I think it's in the book of Job.

Well, seeing as how I've already added my two cents on the topic, I suppose I'll come out and ask this...

Why is God infinite? I suppose a better question would actually be how is God infinite? Using what method of logic or reasoning (that rules out any sort of bible defense) could you conclude that God is, in fact, infinite. Actually, using what method of logic or reasoning could you conclude that anything's infinite?

jalexbrown

Because God doesn't have a physical body that candecay.