GOD-Who created GOD?

Time and God both have the same problem.

Neither has a concrete beginning and neither will have a concievable ending.

Which leads me back to the whole imagination theory - where we just haven't dreamed up a solid, logical answer to how everything began. So in the meantime, we just keep guessing and lying to ourselves to keep from going insane.

Netherscourge

Time began when the Big Bang occurred.

[QUOTE="Netherscourge"]

Time and God both have the same problem.

Neither has a concrete beginning and neither will have a concievable ending.

Which leads me back to the whole imagination theory - where we just haven't dreamed up a solid, logical answer to how everything began. So in the meantime, we just keep guessing and lying to ourselves to keep from going insane.

h8jlhbtw

Time began when the Big Bang occurred.

[QUOTE="dipper145"]God was created by man, made up to get people to follow and take up certain ideals, also to help people fall in line with the rest of society.lbde

Again stop jumping to conclusions.

Its aunsolvable mystery.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Decessus"]Creation doesn't imply imperfection. Perhaps God was created perfectly.jts31689

God, lol.

and god created that god that created the other one that created this god! it goes on forever! im athiest BTW

People created god in thier minds and then it spread.SunofVich

Exactly. Thats what I think too.

[QUOTE="SunofVich"]People created god in thier minds and then it spread.Rikusaki

Exactly. Thats what I think too.

how many times hould i say...even if GOD is and imagination who created us to imagine god..and who created the creator of us..X loop

The universe is not infinite, time is but a dimension we are bound to. God being the creator of the universe and time is not bound by it. Therefore he has no beggining or end. "Before Abraham was I AM". I could go more into detail but im tired of responding to this question all the time. If your seriously wondering about these questions read "What's So Great About Christianity". It will show you that Science and Christianity have never been in conlict.CRUNK3050

I've read it and disagree with it entirely. Its utter hokum. Every argument this chap raises can be easily dismissed using rational argument and scientific principles.

In your initial statement, you mention that man is bound by time. Why have NASA experiments actually physically demonstrated that time is affected by speed?

You also say that because god created the universe, god has no beginning or end. How can you infer that? Personally, I can't see how that necessarily follows.

[QUOTE="CRUNK3050"]The universe is not infinite, time is but a dimension we are bound to. God being the creator of the universe and time is not bound by it. Therefore he has no beggining or end. "Before Abraham was I AM". I could go more into detail but im tired of responding to this question all the time. If your seriously wondering about these questions read "What's So Great About Christianity". It will show you that Science and Christianity have never been in conlict.RationalAtheist

I've read it and disagree with it entirely. Its utter hokum. Every argument this chap raises can be easily dismissed using rational argument and scientific principles.

In your initial statement, you mention that man is bound by time. Why have NASA experiments actually physically demonstrated that time is affected by speed?

You also say that because created the universe, god has no beginning or end. How can you infer that? Personally, I can't see how that necessarily follows.

1: God is eternal

2: the universe is eternal

there are only 2 possibilities

1: God is eternal

2: the universe is eternal

notconspiracy

Wow! Where did all the other possibilities go?

And why?....

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

there are only 2 possibilities

1: God is eternal

2: the universe is eternal

RationalAtheist

Wow! Where did all the other possibilities go?

And why?....

there is only 1 other possibility that im aware of, and that is that the universe came from nothing, and people who hold to that belief are ignoring the laws of physics.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

there are only 2 possibilities

1: God is eternal

2: the universe is eternal

notconspiracy

Wow! Where did all the other possibilities go?

And why?....

there is only 1 other possibility that im aware of, and that is that the universe came from nothing, and people who hold to that belief are ignoring the laws of physics.

So that's 3 then... We know that our physical view is universal. It does not extend past that, so physical laws may be broken...

4. God, as some deists think, has died, gone elsewhere, or got bored with this universe.

5. Some other state existed pre-creation of the universe. Eternity references time as a measurement. A prior state may not have had time as a reference.

I'm sure I can dream up some more besides...

Anyway, what does the concept of eternity (universal or religious) have to do with a notion of god? Eternity does not necessarily imply theism for me.

Bill Gates and bungie , well this is according to the 360fanboy bible

in the name of the Father , the 360 , and the Halo spirit AMEN.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

there are only 2 possibilities

1: God is eternal

2: the universe is eternal

RationalAtheist

Wow! Where did all the other possibilities go?

And why?....

there is only 1 other possibility that im aware of, and that is that the universe came from nothing, and people who hold to that belief are ignoring the laws of physics.

So that's 3 then... We know that our physical view is universal. It does not extend past that, so physical laws may be broken...

4. God, as some deists think, has died, gone elsewhere, or got bored with this universe.

5. Some other state existed pre-creation of the universe. Eternity references time as a measurement. A prior state may not have had time as a reference.

I'm sure I can dream up some more besides...

Anyway, what does the concept of eternity (universal or religious) have to do with a notion of god? Eternity does not necessarily imply theism for me.

2: it (the universe) would still be eternal, something for which there is no proof

"EVEN IF YOUR AETHEST JUST THINK OTHERWISE FOR A SEC"

m religious BUT HOW!! HOW DID THE CREATOR BECOME?there was nothing then poof =GOD?? my head is seriously hrting thinking about it?!1 arghhhhh

kirk4ever

hehe that was actually kind of cool. creationists always say that; " so yeah... the world just appeared out of nothing? of course God created the universe" but what created god? when did 'time' start? God couldn't have existed forever. this is surely a head ache issue. much like thinking about if there is an end to the universeNaiKoN9293

1: even if deism is right, god is still eternal

2: it (the universe) would still be eternal, something for which there is no proof

notconspiracy

No, Desism does not exclude dead gods.

I agree about point 2. But as I said, the eternity, or otherwise, of the universe has no logical connection with a creator, or their mortality.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

1: even if deism is right, god is still eternal

2: it (the universe) would still be eternal, something for which there is no proof

RationalAtheist

No, Desism does not exclude dead gods.

I agree about point 2. But as I said, the eternity, or otherwise, of the universe has no logical connection with a creator, or their mortality.

There are 2 higher powers, one for an infinite positive matrix, and the other for a negative infinite matrix.

duh...

[QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"]hehe that was actually kind of cool. creationists always say that; " so yeah... the world just appeared out of nothing? of course God created the universe" but what created god? when did 'time' start? God couldn't have existed forever. this is surely a head ache issue. much like thinking about if there is an end to the universeAnamosa41

You can say that time and time again (chanting is a psychologically documented tactic for mind-bending), but weithout any rational argument as to why, or facts, your statement on its own does not convince me.

[QUOTE="Anamosa41"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"]hehe that was actually kind of cool. creationists always say that; " so yeah... the world just appeared out of nothing? of course God created the universe" but what created god? when did 'time' start? God couldn't have existed forever. this is surely a head ache issue. much like thinking about if there is an end to the universeRationalAtheist

You can say that time and time again (chanting is a psychologically documented tactic for mind-bending), but weithout any rational argument as to why, or facts, your statement on its own does not convince me.

so again, the only 2 possibilities are an eternal (before dying has existed for eternity) god or an eternal universe. both assumptions require faith. notconspiracy

Eternity and dying don't mix.

Possibilities and assumptions don't require faith. Irrational beliefs do.

And what about those other possibilites I described?

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"] so again, the only 2 possibilities are an eternal (before dying has existed for eternity) god or an eternal universe. both assumptions require faith. RationalAtheist

Eternity and dying don't mix.

Possibilities and assumptions don't require faith. Irrational beliefs do.

And what about those other possibilites I described?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="Anamosa41"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"]hehe that was actually kind of cool. creationists always say that; " so yeah... the world just appeared out of nothing? of course God created the universe" but what created god? when did 'time' start? God couldn't have existed forever. this is surely a head ache issue. much like thinking about if there is an end to the universenotconspiracy

You can say that time and time again (chanting is a psychologically documented tactic for mind-bending), but weithout any rational argument as to why, or facts, your statement on its own does not convince me.

Sorry - I can't understand that comment. It had no relation to the stuff you quoted.

How do you know this about time? Have you not heard of the big bang/big collapse theory?

Einsteins theory of relativity states that the passing of time is relative to speed and mass.

Please substantiate your future assertions.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="Anamosa41"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"]hehe that was actually kind of cool. creationists always say that; " so yeah... the world just appeared out of nothing? of course God created the universe" but what created god? when did 'time' start? God couldn't have existed forever. this is surely a head ache issue. much like thinking about if there is an end to the universeRationalAtheist

You can say that time and time again (chanting is a psychologically documented tactic for mind-bending), but weithout any rational argument as to why, or facts, your statement on its own does not convince me.

Sorry - I can't understand that comment. It had no relation to the stuff you quoted.

How do you know this about time? Have you not heard of the big bang/big collapse theory?

Einsteins theory of relativity states that the passing of time is relative to speed and mass.

Please substantiate your future assertions.

is that the one that says the universe is in an infinite cycle of expansion and contraction?

the other possibilities still fall under 2 categories, a god who has existed for an infinite amount of time before the universe existed, or 2, the universe always existed. neither have any evidence, and they both require faith

notconspiracy

No, you are missing my extra examples.

Do you know what faith is? Why not believe those hypotheses as posibilities? That won't require faith.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="Anamosa41"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"]hehe that was actually kind of cool. creationists always say that; " so yeah... the world just appeared out of nothing? of course God created the universe" but what created god? when did 'time' start? God couldn't have existed forever. this is surely a head ache issue. much like thinking about if there is an end to the universenotconspiracy

You can say that time and time again (chanting is a psychologically documented tactic for mind-bending), but weithout any rational argument as to why, or facts, your statement on its own does not convince me.

Sorry - I can't understand that comment. It had no relation to the stuff you quoted.

How do you know this about time? Have you not heard of the big bang/big collapse theory?

Einsteins theory of relativity states that the passing of time is relative to speed and mass.

Please substantiate your future assertions.

is that the one that says the universe is in an infinite cycle of expansion and contraction?

Yes that's the one, where time keeps on ticking....

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="Anamosa41"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"]hehe that was actually kind of cool. creationists always say that; " so yeah... the world just appeared out of nothing? of course God created the universe" but what created god? when did 'time' start? God couldn't have existed forever. this is surely a head ache issue. much like thinking about if there is an end to the universeRationalAtheist

You can say that time and time again (chanting is a psychologically documented tactic for mind-bending), but weithout any rational argument as to why, or facts, your statement on its own does not convince me.

Sorry - I can't understand that comment. It had no relation to the stuff you quoted.

How do you know this about time? Have you not heard of the big bang/big collapse theory?

Einsteins theory of relativity states that the passing of time is relative to speed and mass.

Please substantiate your future assertions.

is that the one that says the universe is in an infinite cycle of expansion and contraction?

Yes that's the one, where time keeps on ticking....

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

the big crunch theory?

is that the one that says the universe is in an infinite cycle of expansion and contraction?

notconspiracy

Yes that's the one, where time keeps on ticking....

How so?

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

the big crunch theory?

is that the one that says the universe is in an infinite cycle of expansion and contraction?

RationalAtheist

Yes that's the one, where time keeps on ticking....

How so?

yeah..pls explain im really interested( no im not being sarcastic)

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

the big crunch theory?

is that the one that says the universe is in an infinite cycle of expansion and contraction?

RationalAtheist

Yes that's the one, where time keeps on ticking....

How so?

one day a spontaneous explosion occured and BANG! god. But what created that spontaneous explosion. And what caused the thing that created the spontaneous explosion that created god. No one will ever know.

but im agnostic so my opinion doesnt matter.

If the universe isn't infinitely expanding, then it is a closed system. if it existed for an infinite amount of time, then the universe would have reached a a state of infinite entropy an infinite amount of time ago. notconspiracy

What the? That really does not make any sense at all to me. Perhaps you could break it down a bit more?

I thought your argument was going to be that the initial spread of matter from the big bang was so uniform, that the first 10 to the power -32 seconds (v short amount of time) of the big bang contravened the 2nd law of thermodynamics, relating to heat transfer and entropy in a collapsing universe.

But that postition has been countered here:

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_account/the_big_bang_clock_a_thermodynamic_theory_for_the_origin_of_the_universe

Who created the who that created god? who created the who that created the who that created god? Who create the who that created the who that created the who that created the who thatcreated god?I can't take the madness, model 19 must clear my mind with a 158 grain.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]If the universe isn't infinitely expanding, then it is a closed system. if it existed for an infinite amount of time, then the universe would have reached a a state of infinite entropy an infinite amount of time ago. RationalAtheist

What the? That really does not make any sense at all to me. Perhaps you could break it down a bit more?

I thought your argument was going to be that the initial spread of matter from the big bang was so uniform, that the first 10 to the power -32 seconds (v short amount of time) of the big bang contravened the 2nd law of thermodynamics, relating to heat transfer and entropy in a collapsing universe.

But that postition has been countered here:

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_account/the_big_bang_clock_a_thermodynamic_theory_for_the_origin_of_the_universe

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]If the universe isn't infinitely expanding, then it is a closed system. if it existed for an infinite amount of time, then the universe would have reached a a state of infinite entropy an infinite amount of time ago. notconspiracy

What the? That really does not make any sense at all to me. Perhaps you could break it down a bit more?

I thought your argument was going to be that the initial spread of matter from the big bang was so uniform, that the first 10 to the power -32 seconds (v short amount of time) of the big bang contravened the 2nd law of thermodynamics, relating to heat transfer and entropy in a collapsing universe.

But that postition has been countered here:

http://www.scientificblogging.com link

I know that and responded accordingly. Can you not understand my response? See the bit where I talk about a "collapsing" universe?

If the universe isn't infinitely expanding, then it is a closed system. if it existed for an infinite amount of time, then the universe would have reached a a state of infinite entropy an infinite amount of time ago. notconspiracy

hehe that was actually kind of cool. creationists always say that; " so yeah... the world just appeared out of nothing? of course God created the universe" but what created god? when did 'time' start? God couldn't have existed forever. this is surely a head ache issue. much like thinking about if there is an end to the universeNaiKoN9293

Why not?

God is the supreme beingfrom which everything comes. In fact time was created by God. God is not affected by time because He created it. He is outside of time. In a sense, God is existence, which is why we owe Him obedience. Does that make sense?P47Rotgut