GOP: Too Old, Too White, and Too Male?

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I'm really not sure that minimum wage where it currently is at is all too consequential. I mean, it's hardly possible to survive on it where it is at - which explains to some extent why a very small portion of the labor force makes it. Additionally, I'd wager some of 'em are teenagers. Prob helps the people currently making it for a living, though.

coolbeans90

I agree. Just curious, what are your thoughts on a negative income tax?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] IMO there are better liberal arguments against the minimum wage than conservative arguments; i.e. there are more efficient ways of ensuring a minimum standard of living than implementing a price floor for wages. -Sun_Tzu-

I agree. Just curious, what are your thoughts on a negative income tax?

I, too, like the idea.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] tl;dr version

poor people must starve for freedom

-Sun_Tzu-

As demonstrated by 12 years of extreme socialist welfare policies during the great depression.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] tl;dr version

poor people must starve for freedom

-Sun_Tzu-

QFT.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] Do you think minimum wage laws and other welfare programs magically cure poverty and hunger? Minimum wage doesn't create food. If someone selling food wants to actually sell his inventory, he is going to have to sell it at a price that people can afford to pay. When everyone has more money, that just means he'll sell his food for more.Laihendi

As demonstrated by 12 years of extreme socialist welfare policies during the great depression.

I see Hokies lack of reading comprehension has rubbed off on laihendi. DroidPhysX

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I agree. Just curious, what are your thoughts on a negative income tax?

coolbeans90

I, too, like the idea.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Huge supporter. I'm in favor of replacing our entire welfare system (i.e. food stamps, medicaid, welfare payments, ect.) with a negative income tax. Means testings is completely counterproductive and way too bureaucratic. l4dak47

I, too, like the idea.

I see Hokies lack of reading comprehension has rubbed off on laihendi. DroidPhysX

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] This is very shoddy microeconomic analysis. The food market doesn't behave at all like how you just described. And yes, welfare programs do help to end poverty. Poverty is the lack of money - giving poor people more money makes them less poor, thus it helps to reduce poverty. This isn't that hard.-Sun_Tzu-

As demonstrated by 12 years of extreme socialist welfare policies during the great depression.

'Socialism disincentivizes productivity.'

This would be a problem if we were seeing a labor shortage. But we aren't. So it isn't a problem.

'Money means nothing when there isn't anything to back it up with.'

I don't know where this came from, but money means exactly what everyone agrees it means.

'Every socialist country has failed or is failing. The more socialist, the more spectacular the failure (my favorite is North Korea).'

Depends on your definition of socialist, I guess. And I'm pretty sure North Korea has a LOT of problems and they aren't limited to or easily distilled into socialism.

'Socialism disincentivizes productivity.'

This would be a problem if we were seeing a labor shortage. But we aren't. So it isn't a problem.

'Money means nothing when there isn't anything to back it up with.'

I don't know where this came from, but money means exactly what everyone agrees it means.

'Every socialist country has failed or is failing. The more socialist, the more spectacular the failure (my favorite is North Korea).'

Depends on your definition of socialist, I guess. And I'm pretty sure North Korea has a LOT of problems and they aren't limited to or easily distilled into socialism.

Abbeten

In a society of entitled beggars, money means nothing because there is nothing to buy with it. North Korea's problems are the epitome of socialism. Socialism is opposed to individual property rights, and is therefore opposed to the concept of an individual living for his own sake. That kind of philosophy has only ever resulted in horrors and atrocities.Laihendi

I was under the impression that people in North Korea are starving at gunpoint, not entitled beggars.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]In a society of entitled beggars, money means nothing because there is nothing to buy with it. North Korea's problems are the epitome of socialism. Socialism is opposed to individual property rights, and is therefore opposed to the concept of an individual living for his own sake. That kind of philosophy has only ever resulted in horrors and atrocities.coolbeans90

I was under the impression that people in North Korea are starving at gunpoint, not entitled beggars.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]In a society of entitled beggars, money means nothing because there is nothing to buy with it. North Korea's problems are the epitome of socialism. Socialism is opposed to individual property rights, and is therefore opposed to the concept of an individual living for his own sake. That kind of philosophy has only ever resulted in horrors and atrocities.Laihendi

I was under the impression that people in North Korea are starving at gunpoint, not entitled beggars.

That's called a military Junta, not a beggar.

It's a wonder Republicans ever win when it's like one demographic group vs. any demographic group. How do they ever win anyway?

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I was under the impression that people in North Korea are starving at gunpoint, not entitled beggars.

coolbeans90

That's called a military Junta, not a beggar.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] The person holding the gun is the entitled beggar.Laihendi

That's called a military Junta, not a beggar.

The masses haven't a fvcking choice. Are you familiar with what a military dictatorship is?

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

That's called a military Junta, not a beggar.

coolbeans90

The masses haven't a fvcking choice. Are you familiar with what a military dictatorship is?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] And their rule is unchallenged because the masses forsake their selfish individuality in favor of living for a greater cause.Laihendi

The masses haven't a fvcking choice. Are you familiar with what a military dictatorship is?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] And their rule is unchallenged because the masses forsake their selfish individuality in favor of living for a greater cause.Laihendi

The masses haven't a fvcking choice. Are you familiar with what a military dictatorship is?

They are not self-sacrificing at all. They are simply oppressed.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] And their rule is unchallenged because the masses forsake their selfish individuality in favor of living for a greater cause.Laihendi

The masses haven't a fvcking choice. Are you familiar with what a military dictatorship is?

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

The masses haven't a fvcking choice. Are you familiar with what a military dictatorship is?

Aljosa23

I think you're confusing the social democratic state with full blown socialism.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Socialism calls on people to do what the people of North Korea are forced into doing - self-sacrifice for some vague supposed greater good. Socialism can only be maintained through force. It is an abomination.Neoklondiak

I think you're confusing the social democratic state with full blown socialism.

Also, you do realize that Canada, Australia, and Switzerland are all more economically free than the US right?

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Socialism calls on people to do what the people of North Korea are forced into doing - self-sacrifice for some vague supposed greater good. Socialism can only be maintained through force. It is an abomination.Neoklondiak

I think you're confusing the social democratic state with full blown socialism.

Also, why are you back?

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] And their rule is unchallenged because the masses forsake their selfish individuality in favor of living for a greater cause.Aljosa23

The masses haven't a fvcking choice. Are you familiar with what a military dictatorship is?

Not that Laihendi actually has a coherent point with his stupid rants, but those nations are all market economies with only Norway not being considered one of the world's most free economies (at least according to the Heritage Foundation) and have some very advantageous endowments, like the Canada and Norway having lots of oil, Australia being rich in minerals, a massive trade partner for some of the world's largest economies and a favourite for tourism, and in Switzerland's case, the most intelligent population in the Western world.

Not that Laihendi actually has a coherent point with his stupid rants, but those nations are all market economies with only Norway not being considered one of the world's most free economies (at least according to the Heritage Foundation) and have some very advantageous endowments, like the Canada and Norway having lots of oil, Australia being rich in minerals, a massive trade partner for some of the world's largest economies and a favourite for tourism, and in Switzerland's case, the most intelligent population in the Western world.

Barbariser

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] The person holding the gun is the entitled beggar.Laihendi

That's called a military Junta, not a beggar.

yes North Korea is the greatest expression of altruism that the world has ever seen

bro you are fvcking nutso

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

Not that Laihendi actually has a coherent point with his stupid rants, but those nations are all market economies with only Norway not being considered one of the world's most free economies (at least according to the Heritage Foundation) and have some very advantageous endowments, like the Canada and Norway having lots of oil, Australia being rich in minerals, a massive trade partner for some of the world's largest economies and a favourite for tourism, and in Switzerland's case, the most intelligent population in the Western world.

Aljosa23

There isn't any point, you're most likely going to get an answer that is along the lines of how people in those countries are miserable and have no freedom or money or whatnot, you know how lolbertarians are. As for cross-country comparisons, one thing that should be noted is that fiscal multipliers (the concept that economically justifies government spending) are not the same for every nation, and "socialist policies" that are good for Europe may not necessarily be good for the U.S.

Americans are also actually richer on a real productivity and income basis than all of those countries except Norway, and in terms of real disposable income I think it pretty much beats every other country in the world with over a million people. What it does very badly in is its distribution of wealth and income, in which nearly every other nation with advanced economies totally thrash it. Don't take this to be an endorsement of the current degree of U.S. "socialization", however, since I don't think that America is filthy rich simply because it doesn't have a proper UHC system.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

That's called a military Junta, not a beggar.

-Sun_Tzu-

yes North Korea is the greatest expression of altruism that the world has ever seen

bro you are fvcking nutso

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] And their rule is unchallenged because the masses forsake their selfish individuality in favor of living for a greater cause.Laihendi

yes North Korea is the greatest expression of altruism that the world has ever seen

bro you are fvcking nutso

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

The masses haven't a fvcking choice. Are you familiar with what a military dictatorship is?

Abbeten

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] hahahaha

yes North Korea is the greatest expression of altruism that the world has ever seen

bro you are fvcking nutso

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]Yep, the classic "I can't explain how he's wrong so I'm just going to call him stupid" tactic.Laihendi