Heath Ledger's Joker or Tom Hiddleston's Loki?

For those of you who have seen both The Dark Knight and The Avengers, which film's villain do you think is better? I know that most people praise Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker and say that his portrayal of the character is the best thus far and also one of the best for a villain in film history. However, after seeing The Avengers, I honestly believe that Tom Hiddleston's performance as Loki is better; he conveys pure evil (in the traditional sense) and wants to subjugate Humans solely out of a feeling of superiority, whereas Heath's Joker was a crazed clown bent on bringing out the worst in Humanity because he believed that Humans are naturally inclined to do bad things. I prefer Tom Hiddleston's manner of speaking, the emotion he puts into his words, and his overall demeanor much more than Heath's Joker. Anyhow, what about you guys?

My favorite quotes of Loki from the film:

[spoiler]

I am Loki of Asgard, and I am burdened with glorious purpose.Loki

An ant has no quarrel with a boot.Loki

How desperate are you that you call on such lost creatures to defend you?Loki

I haven't seen The Avengers and I know that the answer is easily Heath Ledger's Joker.sammyjenkis898

Keep riding that bandwagon.

I also don't think anybody will ever be able to compare to Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker.

Definitely Heath Ledger's Joker. Loki was okay, but nothing he did even came close to getting the emotional reaction out of me that came from this scene.

Looking at Loki that way is ignoring ALL other characterization that went into the script. He wants to rule humans to feel superior, yeah, but he does it because he can't get no respect elsewhere. He's the red-headed step-child of his own people and you can tell nobody really fears him as a villain. He's a flunkie who stumbled onto some power, but they know there's worse out there. There always is.

As much as I love Avengers, Joker is absolutely the more terrifying of the two because he's just psychotic. Doesn't make him a more rounded character, but more unsettling than Loki. Tom Hiddleston was fun and enjoyable to watch, but I still have to give credit to Heath.

the acting wasn't even close...ledger was much more believable and engaging in character...Omni-Slash

Heath Ledger, no contest.

I felt Loki's character is great because of the multitude of people he interacted with but on his own he would be average imo. The Joker had his own flair and story that existed all its own. People loved and praised The Dark Knight because of the Joker. People love the Avengers because of all the characters blended well together.

But thats just me. :P

[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"]I haven't seen The Avengers and I know that the answer is easily Heath Ledger's Joker.BluRayHiDef

Keep riding that bandwagon.

I also don't think anybody will ever be able to compare to Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker.

airshocker

You know what? This ridiculous amount of praise for Ledger's performance is annoying. I honestly believe that it exists because he died and also because people like riding bandwagons. Ledger's joker wasn't even much of a Joker; he was just a generic bad guy who happened to wear clown's makeup. Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"]I haven't seen The Avengers and I know that the answer is easily Heath Ledger's Joker.BluRayHiDef

Keep riding that bandwagon.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I also don't think anybody will ever be able to compare to Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker.

BluRayHiDef

You know what? This ridiculous amount of praise for Ledger's performance is annoying. I honestly believe that it exists because he died and also because people like riding bandwagons. Ledger's joker wasn't even much of a Joker; he was just a generic bad guy who happened to wear clown's makeup. Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

I love how you deleted your blog post with pictures of your monitor covered with The Joker.

Idiot.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I also don't think anybody will ever be able to compare to Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker.

BluRayHiDef

You know what? This ridiculous amount of praise for Ledger's performance is annoying. I honestly believe that it exists because he died and also because people like riding bandwagons. Ledger's joker wasn't even much of a Joker; he was just a generic bad guy who happened to wear clown's makeup. Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

I can't wait for the inevitable "Who do you prefer: Tom Hardy as Bane or Heath Ledger as Joker" threads from you.spazzx625

You know what? This ridiculous amount of praise for Ledger's performance is annoying. I honestly believe that it exists because he died and also because people like riding bandwagons. Ledger's joker wasn't even much of a Joker; he was just a generic bad guy who happened to wear clown's makeup. Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

BluRayHiDef

I disagree with you. While his death was tragic, it doesn't influence my reasons for thinking he's the best movie adaptation of a supervillain.

Generic? Loki was FAR more generic. The Joker doesn't actually make good jokes, which is something you would know if you knew anything about the character. He's enigmatic, demented, and incorporates bad humor into everything he does.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I also don't think anybody will ever be able to compare to Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker.

sammyjenkis898

You know what? This ridiculous amount of praise for Ledger's performance is annoying. I honestly believe that it exists because he died and also because people like riding bandwagons. Ledger's joker wasn't even much of a Joker; he was just a generic bad guy who happened to wear clown's makeup. Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

I love how you deleted your blog post with pictures of your monitor covered with The Joker.

Idiot.

• Use of Ledger's Joker does not imply that I think he's the best villain or the best rendition of the Joker.
• The blog is still up, but only my friends can see my blog. You're not my friend, so **** off.

I can't wait for the inevitable "Who do you prefer: Tom Hardy as Bane or Heath Ledger as Joker" threads from you.spazzx625

• Use of Ledger's Joker does not imply that I think he's the best villain or the best rendition of the Joker.
• The blog is still up, but only my friends can see my blog. You're not my friend, so **** off.

BluRayHiDef

It implies that you are impressed with performance. This doesn't sound like someone that is impressed with his performance:

Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

banblurayhidef

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

You know what? This ridiculous amount of praise for Ledger's performance is annoying. I honestly believe that it exists because he died and also because people like riding bandwagons. Ledger's joker wasn't even much of a Joker; he was just a generic bad guy who happened to wear clown's makeup. Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

airshocker

I disagree with you. While his death was tragic, it doesn't influence my reasons for thinking he's the best movie adaptation of a supervillain.

Generic? Loki was FAR more generic. The Joker doesn't actually make jokes, which is something you would know if you knew anything about the character. He's enigmatic, demented, and incorporates bad humor into everything he does.

Fail. In Tim Burton's Batman, in Batman: The Animated Series, in the Batman games, and in the comics, The Joker does make jokes. YOU don't know what you're talking about.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

• Use of Ledger's Joker does not imply that I think he's the best villain or the best rendition of the Joker.
• The blog is still up, but only my friends can see my blog. You're not my friend, so **** off.

sammyjenkis898

It implies that you are impressed with performance. This doesn't sound like someone that is impressed with his performance:

Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

banblurayhidef

That doesn't mean that I think the performance was bad, but just that it wasn't as great as people make it out to be. Anyhow, from now on I'm going to call you "Car". Now, do me a favor, Car, and drive out of this thread. Your exhaust is making it hard to breath.

Fail. In Tim Burton's Batman, in Batman: The Animated Series, in the Batman games, and in the comics, The Joker does make jokes. YOU don't know what you're talking about.

BluRayHiDef

Sorry, I left out the word good. He doesn't make good jokes, is my point. He's not funny in that regard.

None of that, however, changes the fact that I still disagree with you on this premise that you are a bandwagon fan if you liked Ledger's performance in TDK.

Hmm that is a hard one. Unfortunately, Heath Ledger has entered the Beatles/Nirvana stage in our culture where its automatically assumed he is the best in his genre. Best villain, best this, best that ect.

I loved the Jokers performance but I am going to go with Loki. There was just something terrifying and insane with him like the Joker but I loved seeing the connection with Thor and Loki. It really helped that Thor had came out before as well. The whole time I was waiting for Loki to repent to a degree but he never did. Both performance were brilliant.

Fail. In Tim Burton's Batman, in Batman: The Animated Series, in the Batman games, and in the comics, The Joker does make jokes. YOU don't know what you're talking about.

BluRayHiDef

Tim Burton's Batman films suck.

He makes jokes. The pencil trick, the fake grenade, etc. He has a morbid sense of humor (perfectly demonstrated in the video another user posted). He's not some clown that carries around an assortment of birthday baloons; he'll slice your cheek open and find the humor in it. He's actually a threat.

That doesn't mean that I think the performance was bad, but just that it wasn't as great as people make it out to be. Anyhow, from now on I'm going to call you "Car". Now, do me a favor, Car, and drive out of this thread. You're exhaust is making it hard to breath.

BluRayHiDef

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Fail. In Tim Burton's Batman, in Batman: The Animated Series, in the Batman games, and in the comics, The Joker does make jokes. YOU don't know what you're talking about.

airshocker

Sorry, I left out the word good. He doesn't make good jokes, is my point. He's not funny in that regard.

None of that, however, changes the fact that I still disagree with you on this premise that you are a bandwagon fan if you liked Ledger's performance in TDK.

It doesn't matter if the jokes are good or bad. The fact is that Ledger's Joker made only ONE joke. WTF?

You need to seek professional help. You are a sad individual.spazzx625

What was that, Piglet? You just got finished eating your own feces? I'm not surprised.

Ledger had shown possibly the best acting job I've ever seen in film.

Tom did a really good job though. imo loki is a boring character but he made him kinda interesting.

It doesn't matter if the jokes are good or bad. The fact is that Ledger's Joker made only ONE joke. WTF?

BluRayHiDef

That's your opinion. I think the performance was brilliant and was necessary to deviate from the animated series version of The Joker.

That doesn't mean that I think the performance was bad, but just that it wasn't as great as people make it out to be. Anyhow, from now on I'm going to call you "Car". Now, do me a favor, Car, and drive out of this thread. Your exhaust is making it hard to breath.

BluRayHiDef

Well, that's clever, though I'm not sure if it tops calling Spazz "Piggy."

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Fail. In Tim Burton's Batman, in Batman: The Animated Series, in the Batman games, and in the comics, The Joker does make jokes. YOU don't know what you're talking about.

BluRayHiDef

Sorry, I left out the word good. He doesn't make good jokes, is my point. He's not funny in that regard.

None of that, however, changes the fact that I still disagree with you on this premise that you are a bandwagon fan if you liked Ledger's performance in TDK.

It doesn't matter if the jokes are good or bad. The fact is that Ledger's Joker made only ONE joke. WTF?

Hmm that is a hard one. Unfortunately, Heath Ledger has entered the Beatles/Nirvana stage in our culture where its automatically assumed he is the best in his genre. Best villain, best this, best that ect.

I loved the Jokers performance but I am going to go with Loki. There was just something terrifying and insane with him like the Joker but I loved seeing the connection with Thor and Loki. It really helped that Thor had came out before as well. The whole time I was waiting for Loki to repent to a degree but he never did. Both performance were brilliant.

TheColbert

[spoiler] I love the scene in which Thor tries to reason with Loki, and Loki deceives Thor into thinking that he's been swayed, but then stabs him in the abdomen with a knife, and mokingly says "Sentiment!" Pure evil. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

You know what? This ridiculous amount of praise for Ledger's performance is annoying. I honestly believe that it exists because he died and also because people like riding bandwagons. Ledger's joker wasn't even much of a Joker; he was just a generic bad guy who happened to wear clown's makeup. Aside from the bit with the pencil, he made no jokes...which is bad because he's supposed to be the Joker. If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.

BluRayHiDef

I disagree with you. While his death was tragic, it doesn't influence my reasons for thinking he's the best movie adaptation of a supervillain.

Generic? Loki was FAR more generic. The Joker doesn't actually make jokes, which is something you would know if you knew anything about the character. He's enigmatic, demented, and incorporates bad humor into everything he does.

Fail. In Tim Burton's Batman, in Batman: The Animated Series, in the Batman games, and in the comics, The Joker does make jokes. YOU don't know what you're talking about.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Sorry, I left out the word good. He doesn't make good jokes, is my point. He's not funny in that regard.

None of that, however, changes the fact that I still disagree with you on this premise that you are a bandwagon fan if you liked Ledger's performance in TDK.

spazzx625

It doesn't matter if the jokes are good or bad. The fact is that Ledger's Joker made only ONE joke. WTF?

In the Marvel continuity, he is INITIALLY a trickster, but then becomes pure evil.

Article.

In time, his reputation grew from being a playful and mischievous trickster to the "God of Evil".Article

Thor and The Avengers (the films) took place well into his adulthood after he established the kind of character he would be.

TC, you could have just jumped straight to the point - you wanted to pick a fight with Dark Knight fans.

As it is, this thread will be terribly one-sided. I liked Hiddleston a lot in both Thor and The Avengers - Loki's a campy fun villain with a bit of tragic depth - but the acting isn't even on the same register as Ledger in The Dark Knight, nor was it ever supposed to be.

Ledger brought an intensity to the role that no other comic book film has matched; and that's not hugely high praise for TDK, it's just general damning of a genre that rarely has memorable villains - think Jeff Bridges in Iron Man, Willem Dafoe in Spiderman, Hugo Weaving in Captain America, bloody Topher Grace in Spiderman 3, and so on.Hiddleston's Loki was better than that list combined, sure, but...a lot of the interest came from the writing and costume, more than from the actor himself.

Meanwhile, Ledger made Nolan's interpretation of the Joker deranged, psychotic, and understandably terrifying - not just through the writing and costume, but through his intonation, his commanding presence, through the little quirks that he weaves into every facial expression; hell, through the way that the other actors seemed to be genuinely freaked out by the guy.

So...I don't know, I don't see the comparison at all. Kudos to Hiddleston for working with what he had, but Ledger went above and beyond that.

Please, this is a silly question. Ledger acted his ass off for the Joker and was so incredibly committed to it. Every scene with him in it he completely stole all the limelight. One of the best acting performances around ever.

EDIT: Oh wait now I realise it was just TC being annoyed everyone thought the Joker was so good and you wanted everyone to side with you on Loki right? and just try to annoy the Batman fans at the same time. Don't hide your agenda

TC, you could have just jumped straight to the point - you wanted to pick a fight with Dark Knight fans.

As it is, this thread will be terribly one-sided. I liked Hiddleston a lot in both Thor and The Avengers - Loki's a campy fun villain with a bit of tragic depth - but the acting isn't even on the same register as Ledger in The Dark Knight, nor was it ever supposed to be.

Ledger brought an intensity to the role that no other comic book film has matched; and that's not hugely high praise for TDK, it's just general damning of a genre that rarely has memorable villains - think Jeff Bridges in Iron Man, Willem Dafoe in Spiderman, Hugo Weaving in Captain America, bloody Topher Grace in Spiderman 3, and so on.

Hiddleston's Loki was better than that list combined, sure, but...a lot of the interest came from the writing and costume, more than from the actor himself.
Whereas Ledger made Nolan's interpretation of the Joker deranged, psychotic, and understandably terrifying - not just through the writing and costume, but through his intonation, his commanding presence, through the little quirks that he weaves into every facial expression; hell, through the way that the other actors seemed to be genuinely freaked out by the guy.

So...I don't know, I don't see the comparison at all. Kudos to Hiddleston for working with what he had, but Ledger went above and beyond that.

Planeforger

Your claim that a lot of Loki's portrayal came from the writing and the costume is false. A lot of it came from Hiddleston's expressions, mannerisms, and delivery of lines. I strenuously disagree with you. Just recall the way that he says "I am Loki of Asgard, and I am burdened with glorious purpose." It's just so evil and awesomely said. The delivery of that line combined with his his sligly clammy skin, the dark circles around his eyes, and the expression on his face is just great.

Ledger's performance hands down.

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

TC, you could have just jumped straight to the point - you wanted to pick a fight with Dark Knight fans.

As it is, this thread will be terribly one-sided. I liked Hiddleston a lot in both Thor and The Avengers - Loki's a campy fun villain with a bit of tragic depth - but the acting isn't even on the same register as Ledger in The Dark Knight, nor was it ever supposed to be.

Ledger brought an intensity to the role that no other comic book film has matched; and that's not hugely high praise for TDK, it's just general damning of a genre that rarely has memorable villains - think Jeff Bridges in Iron Man, Willem Dafoe in Spiderman, Hugo Weaving in Captain America, bloody Topher Grace in Spiderman 3, and so on.

Hiddleston's Loki was better than that list combined, sure, but...a lot of the interest came from the writing and costume, more than from the actor himself.
Whereas Ledger made Nolan's interpretation of the Joker deranged, psychotic, and understandably terrifying - not just through the writing and costume, but through his intonation, his commanding presence, through the little quirks that he weaves into every facial expression; hell, through the way that the other actors seemed to be genuinely freaked out by the guy.

So...I don't know, I don't see the comparison at all. Kudos to Hiddleston for working with what he had, but Ledger went above and beyond that.

BluRayHiDef

Your claim that a lot of Loki's portrayal came from the writing and the costume is false. A lot of it came from Hiddleston's expressions, mannerisms, and delivery of lines. I strenuously disagree with you. Just recall the way that he says "I am Loki of Asgard, and I am burdened with glorious purpose." It's just so evil and awesomely said. The delivery of that line combined with his his sligly clammy skin, the dark circles around his eyes, and the expression on his face is just great.

And then they got rid of all that half way through and made him look like a fool and an idiot. He failed over and over again once the portal was opened and all his devious meniacal nature dissolved. That scene where the Hulk beat him up made him look like a little child.

First half of the Movie Loki was outstanding but later on they made him seem like an arrogant tantrum throwing child who couldn't do anything right. He was the butt of everyones jokes

Your claim that a lot of Loki's portrayal came from the writing and the costume is false. A lot of it came from Hiddleston's expressions, mannerisms, and delivery of lines. I strenuously disagree with you. Just recall the way that he says "I am Loki of Asgard, and I am burdened with glorious purpose." It's just so evil and awesomely said. The delivery of that line combined with his his sligly clammy skin, the dark circles around his eyes, and the expression on his face is just great.

BluRayHiDef

Okay, I definitely overstated that point, but I still can't agree with you. When I think back to the scene-stealing performances in the film, they mostly come down to Robert Downey Jnr and Mark Ruffalo - I don't even remember many specific lines by Loki, and I saw the film last night(!). I remember everyone's retorts against him ('puny god' was just...hell yeah), I remember general action scenes involving him, but I don't remember his performance shining through all of that. He just didn't leave a huge impact on me, despite being a really likeable villain.

Also, as for the clammy skin, the dark circles, and the expression...he definitely has a good look about him, but you know what they say about aesthetics...

If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.BluRayHiDef

:P

Are you joking? Of course, Heath Ledger was by far the best actor.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Your claim that a lot of Loki's portrayal came from the writing and the costume is false. A lot of it came from Hiddleston's expressions, mannerisms, and delivery of lines. I strenuously disagree with you. Just recall the way that he says "I am Loki of Asgard, and I am burdened with glorious purpose." It's just so evil and awesomely said. The delivery of that line combined with his his sligly clammy skin, the dark circles around his eyes, and the expression on his face is just great.

Planeforger

Okay, I definitely overstated that point, but I still can't agree with you. When I think back to the scene-stealing performances in the film, they mostly come down to Robert Downey Jnr and Mark Ruffalo - I don't even remember many specific lines by Loki, and I saw the film last night(!). I remember everyone's retorts against him ('puny god' was just...hell yeah), I remember general action scenes involving him, but I don't remember his performance shining through all of that. He just didn't leave a huge impact on me, despite being a really likeable villain.

Also, as for the clammy skin, the dark circles, and the expression...he definitely has a good look about him, but you know what they say about aesthetics...

If you took away the weird voice, lip licking, and sloppy makeup, he would have received little to no praise for the performance. 90% of the performance was aesthetics.BluRayHiDef

:P

This shows the blatant contradictions in what he's saying because of his personal distaste for ledger's joker. Praises Loki for his mannerisms, and appearance like cirlces around his eyes and clammy skin yet says the Joker is "All aesthetics" and that shouldn't be counted

I just rewatched Dark Knight. The Joker is amazingly (and I don't use that word often) encompassing. It blows almost any villain I've seen, comic book wise or other.

When I think of the Heath Ledger's Joker, I forget Heath even played him. It's like there is no actor involved. In literally scene you can't take your eyes off him.

The depth of the character is hard to put into words, but the best example is when Joker is falling to his death near the end. There is no normal human reaction of self-preservation, just insane laughing. Granted that is probably in the script, but its pulled of SO WELL.

When I see the Joker in that movie, I don't think of Heath Ledger AT ALL, and thats the sign of an excellent acting performance.

Loki is OK. Much better than Hugo Weaving's one dimensional Red Skull. But Joker is miles above them all.