House Democrats have 216 votes needed to pass US health care reform.

Ok I really dont know much about it at all but wont it raise taxes? I just figured it would because I mean how else would it work? And if that is the case I am not really looking forward to paying more taxes so people can get a free ride to the doctor when I myself dont even go, its been like 4 years. Oh but wait I think I will be forced to have some sort of Health Insurance right? Just like a drivers license? coooooooooooool

Bart Stupak just said he would vote in favor of the bill. It's over. By this time tomorrow, the House will have passed this.nocoolnamejim

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Clearly he has done tremendous amounts of legislation.. From redoing the hate crime laws, ending thewar on terror and drugs.. Ended the use of torture.. Created a stim bill to the economy that has at least had some measurable positive effects.. Your being disengious if you claim "he hasn't done anything" when infact he has been extremely busy.. Just because you do not approve of those changes or think they are not anything, does not some how make him that he has done "nothing" as you so put it.

You honeslty don't know what a president is for then.. They are leaders of the party, a president doesn't have executive power over everything.. I fear Bush's time in office warped peoples perceptions on what the President is suppose to be.

I haven't seen anything about him "Ending Torture, Ending the war on terror and drugs, or redoing hate crime laws".

Look it up.. One of the FIRST bills he signed banned torture.. They are also began dismantling the whole war on terror, as well as drugs.. There are numerous articles on it.. google is your friend.. As some one stated earlier he also brougth down the whole "Don't ask, don't tell".. To claim he has done nothign is absolutely wrong.. Infact he has been icnreasingly busy..

And his stimulus: "The unemployment rate remains near 10 percent, and many families are struggling.""Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, estimated that the unemployment rate would not go above 8% if stimulus were enacted. It has been well above that rate since February and is now above 10%."

A) If you were expecting a miracle, then the joke has always been on you.. These things take time.. FDR's NEW DEAL which was vastly more indepth of today's Stim plan took years to see any real improvement in numerous areas.. and B) You may disagree with his poliices, that doesn't mean he isn't passing and promoting those said policies.. Which smacks in the face of you saying "he has done nothing".. Quite clearly he has done something.

Bart Stupak just said he would vote in favor of the bill. It's over. By this time tomorrow, the House will have passed this.nocoolnamejim

Source? I'm seeing articles say they've just about reached a deal (and that they're just clarifying some language), but nothing confirming that Stupak is voting for it.

Ok I really dont know much about it at all but wont it raise taxes? I just figured it would because I mean how else would it work? And if that is the case I am not really looking forward to paying more taxes so people can get a free ride to the doctor when I myself dont even go, its been like 4 years. Oh but wait I think I will be forced to have some sort of Health Insurance right? Just like a drivers license? coooooooooooool

Crimtmp

The whole point of universal healthcare should be so that people like you and me who haven't been able to visit the doctors in 4 to 5 years due to monetary reasons, CAN visit the doctors.

I don't even know if thats the case with this bill anymore. It's been rewritten so much and I don't have the time to reread a 300 page document every time it's changed.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Maybe I misread it. I thought it said "Democrats have the votes they need", as in, they voted. I don't know what would make a "Great President", Obama hasn't done anything he said he would for starters. Snipes_2

.. So wait.. If your not great your bad? :|

House is currently meeting to debate and vote on Health Care Reform. It's live on C-SPAN if anyone wants to watch.

Edit: As a citizen of the state of Tennessee, I apologize for the horrible speech presented by Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R).

scorch-62

I think it's great that the U.S. is finally going to have near-universal health care. It's about time. This isn't a perfect bill by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a hell of a lot better than the status quo, and historically, these types of bills always get improved over time. -Sun_Tzu-

You're right. ! :)

Thanks to everyone for posting in this thread. :)

This government requirement that all people must now have a form of healthcare does worry me, though.

This government requirement that all people must now have a form of healthcare does worry me, though.

Pixel-Pirate

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Bart Stupak just said he would vote in favor of the bill. It's over. By this time tomorrow, the House will have passed this.chessmaster1989

Source? I'm seeing articles say they've just about reached a deal (and that they're just clarifying some language), but nothing confirming that Stupak is voting for it.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

You expect him to keep 300 promises in one year? The fact that he kept a third of his promises in the span of a year seems quite an achievement. :|

nocoolnamejim

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] HE actually hasn't done anything except try and pass this bill.

You honeslty don't know what a president is for then.. They are leaders of the party, a president doesn't have executive power over everything.. I fear Bush's time in office warped peoples perceptions on what the President is suppose to be.

I haven't seen anything about him "Ending Torture, Ending the war on terror and drugs, or redoing hate crime laws".

Look it up.. One of the FIRST bills he signed banned torture.. They are also began dismantling the whole war on terror, as well as drugs.. There are numerous articles on it.. google is your friend.. As some one stated earlier he also brougth down the whole "Don't ask, don't tell".. To claim he has done nothign is absolutely wrong.. Infact he has been icnreasingly busy..

And his stimulus: "The unemployment rate remains near 10 percent, and many families are struggling.""Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, estimated that the unemployment rate would not go above 8% if stimulus were enacted. It has been well above that rate since February and is now above 10%."

A) If you were expecting a miracle, then the joke has always been on you.. These things take time.. FDR's NEW DEAL which was vastly more indepth of today's Stim plan took years to see any real improvement in numerous areas.. and B) You may disagree with his poliices, that doesn't mean he isn't passing and promoting those said policies.. Which smacks in the face of you saying "he has done nothing".. Quite clearly he has done something.

II_Seraphim_II

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Because you're using it as a point against Obama, which is completely absurd because Obama can't pass what hasn't arrived on his desk yet. Basic American politics.

Theokhoth

You said it with the purpose of demonstrating promises Obama hasn't kept. That's not reasonable because Obama can't do anything about it yet. It's the equivalent of blaming Bush for the war in Iraq; the President can't declare war without the approval of Congress and he can't pass legislation without the approval of the legislative branch.

yay.. i cant wait to spend trillions of more dollars that we dont have!

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

This government requirement that all people must now have a form of healthcare does worry me, though.

PannicAtack

That worries me because I can't afford healthcare and there for don't have it and my penalty is that I don't get to visit the doctors/get treatment for my illnesses. My worry is that it wouldn't be any different with this except a new penalty is tacked on of jail time and fines if I can't afford it. That worries me.

yay.. i cant wait to spend trillions of more dollars that we dont have!

imaps3fanboy

Already do it for the military.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

This government requirement that all people must now have a form of healthcare does worry me, though.

PannicAtack

You are not allowed to choose if you want to cover yourself for healthcare anymore. All of the college students working their first job out of school who are still swamped with loans now have to budget for healthcare when they are already in perfect health and can get by for a few years.

No matter what people say, this bill has nothing to do with healthcare. This is about power and money. Democrats who just decided to vote on the bill didn't say yes becuase the bill is what they wanted, they said yes becuse inside this massive thing they are getting some extras. After 1 year of debating, these democrats still didn't want to vote on it becuase they didn't like the bill, yet at the last month they all change their minds? Nope. They were given plenty of little extras.

Why do you think this bill was created mostly behind closed doors AND why do you think that they are voting on it ONLY when the democrats had enough? It's a broken system that both parties have used to exploit stuff. To bad the last time this happened I was still in high school and didn't care.

They should have voted on this months ago, set a deadline and voted, not kept putting it off until the democrats had the votes. Why bother voting, if you can basically hold off everything until you guarentee a win.

This isn't a democracy anymore, this is a joke.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

This government requirement that all people must now have a form of healthcare does worry me, though.

Pixel-Pirate

That worries me because I can't afford healthcare and there for don't have it and my penalty is that I don't get to visit the doctors/get treatment for my illnesses. My worry is that it wouldn't be any different with this except a new penalty is tacked on of jail time and fines if I can't afford it. That worries me.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

yay.. i cant wait to spend trillions of more dollars that we dont have!

Pixel-Pirate

Already do it for the military.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

yay.. i cant wait to spend trillions of more dollars that we dont have!

Pixel-Pirate

Already do it for the military.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] That was a dumb move, for sure.Wasdie

That worries me because I can't afford healthcare and there for don't have it and my penalty is that I don't get to visit the doctors/get treatment for my illnesses. My worry is that it wouldn't be any different with this except a new penalty is tacked on of jail time and fines if I can't afford it. That worries me.

I'm afraid I don't support the free market either. But at the same time I don't support forcing people to buy an item or product.

I'm afraid I don't support the free market either. But at the same time I don't support forcing people to buy an item or product.

Pixel-Pirate

No government should have the right to force you to buy something you can't afford.

yay.. i cant wait to spend trillions of more dollars that we dont have!

imaps3fanboy

Look at is a temporary measure that will eventually induce fiscal responsibility on the public. Major reduction in military spending is a given, but so is the difficult but rational concept about the value and productivity of seniors who are past their prime and use to society. The cost to keep a 75 year old person comfortable or alive for a few more months or years at a tremendous price just doesnt seem like the most bang for the buck. I know this comes off as horrible, but such difficult decisions will have to be made. Actually, come to think of it, I'm not even sure if it will be difficult for todays young people to support such cost reductions on unproductive members like the elderly. I mean, cant a compelling argument be made that the cost restraints is the result of the greatest transfer of debt in world history, pushed by their parents and grandparents? No matter how cold the logic is, it seems only fair and reasonable they pay the price and lie in the grave they made for themselves.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

This government requirement that all people must now have a form of healthcare does worry me, though.

Wasdie

You are not allowed to choose if you want to cover yourself for healthcare anymore. All of the college students working their first job out of school who are still swamped with loans now have to budget for healthcare when they are already in perfect health and can get by for a few years.

No matter what people say, this bill has nothing to do with healthcare. This is about power and money. Democrats who just decided to vote on the bill didn't say yes becuase the bill is what they wanted, they said yes becuse inside this massive thing they are getting some extras. After 1 year of debating, these democrats still didn't want to vote on it becuase they didn't like the bill, yet at the last month they all change their minds? Nope. They were given plenty of little extras.

Why do you think this bill was created mostly behind closed doors AND why do you think that they are voting on it ONLY when the democrats had enough? It's a broken system that both parties have used to exploit stuff. To bad the last time this happened I was still in high school and didn't care.

They should have voted on this months ago, set a deadline and voted, not kept putting it off until the democrats had the votes. Why bother voting, if you can basically hold off everything until you guarentee a win.

This isn't a democracy anymore, this is a joke.

It's not going to have much effect. Premiums won't go up but it's doubtful it will become lower and the idea of not discriminating against patients with preconditions won't lower the price of healthcare. The rules and regulations of the bill are being piled up into a pile of state rules and regulations that have had a terrible impact on healthcare. Hell, we spend more on healthcare than other countries and so far, we're behind the curve.

As a Republican, I would of preferred a public option or universal coverage with insurance instead of government-run. That or we just spend our own money. People would be moreinclined to check the prices, doctors and businesseswould attempt to lower prices, and there would be less waste and more efficiency. In fact, we spend money on food and it's relatively cheap and easy to mass produce and that should be considered a right, yet it's not because the system works. Car insurance is mandatory but it's cheap and there's pleny of coverage. There are so many alternatives for healthcare, yet most of them are ignored.

But if Obamacare happens to work, wonderful. If not, oh well.

Can't wait for another trillion in debt. Awesome. Hope they enjoy their last few months in office.LukeAF24

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] That was a dumb move, for sure.Wasdie

That worries me because I can't afford healthcare and there for don't have it and my penalty is that I don't get to visit the doctors/get treatment for my illnesses. My worry is that it wouldn't be any different with this except a new penalty is tacked on of jail time and fines if I can't afford it. That worries me.

Can't wait for another trillion in debt. Awesome. Hope they enjoy their last few months in office.LukeAF24

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=546

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation—H.R. 3590 and the reconciliation proposal—would produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010–2019 period as result of changes in direct spending and revenues.

Just holding my breath, and hoping that the thing won't pass. At least my state has a provision banning the mandate requiring people to buy health insurance.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] That was a dumb move, for sure.nocoolnamejim

You are not allowed to choose if you want to cover yourself for healthcare anymore. All of the college students working their first job out of school who are still swamped with loans now have to budget for healthcare when they are already in perfect health and can get by for a few years.

No matter what people say, this bill has nothing to do with healthcare. This is about power and money. Democrats who just decided to vote on the bill didn't say yes becuase the bill is what they wanted, they said yes becuse inside this massive thing they are getting some extras. After 1 year of debating, these democrats still didn't want to vote on it becuase they didn't like the bill, yet at the last month they all change their minds? Nope. They were given plenty of little extras.

Why do you think this bill was created mostly behind closed doors AND why do you think that they are voting on it ONLY when the democrats had enough? It's a broken system that both parties have used to exploit stuff. To bad the last time this happened I was still in high school and didn't care.

They should have voted on this months ago, set a deadline and voted, not kept putting it off until the democrats had the votes. Why bother voting, if you can basically hold off everything until you guarentee a win.

This isn't a democracy anymore, this is a joke.

What happens to that other 5%?

What happens to that other 5%?

Pixel-Pirate

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

That worries me because I can't afford healthcare and there for don't have it and my penalty is that I don't get to visit the doctors/get treatment for my illnesses. My worry is that it wouldn't be any different with this except a new penalty is tacked on of jail time and fines if I can't afford it. That worries me.

PannicAtack

To be fair, no one has posted or shown me anything that would show me that those of us who honestly can't afford it, won't have to. I'm simply hearing that I have to and if I can't afford it I get fines/jail time.

Anyone who reads my posts on the subject of healthcare knows that I want universal healthcare and want people covered. I feel very passionate about it and it upsets me when people say they don't want it because "It's my money!". But I don't support jailing and fining the same people who couldn't afford insurance company healthcare in the first place.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Welcome to the slow and painful death of the free market. When your worried that NOT buying something will get you fines or thrown in jail... what has this country come to?

Pixel-Pirate

To be fair, no one has posted or shown me anything that would show me that those of us who honestly can't afford it, won't have to. I'm simply hearing that I have to and if I can't afford it I get fines/jail time.

Anyone who reads my posts on the subject of healthcare knows that I want universal healthcare and want people covered. I feel very passionate about it and it upsets me when people say they don't want it because "It's my money!". But I don't support jailing and fining the same people who couldn't afford insurance company healthcare in the first place.

Maybe if the Public Option hadn't been shot down for being "socialist" we wouldn't have this problem.

Just holding my breath, and hoping that the thing won't pass. At least my state has a provision banning the mandate requiring people to buy health insurance.

coolbeans90

Dont hold your breath. You should welcome this. More conservatives or republicans should just stand out the way and let nature take its course. Reality and economic laws will do the rest. It usually takes a tragedy to open peoples eyes and give them do the will to do what is necessary. It was the inflationary period in Germany during the 30's and the rise of Hitler why Germany today is so paranoid about debt and inflation. That fear and strong memory of history is what gave the German government the power and will to reform their welfare and social services early last decade. They knew that combined with longer lifespans and lower birth rates and so much more that the current system was unsustainable. the chancellor even threatened to quit if his party didnt support him. Germany isnt Europes largest economy, even with absorbing the east in the 90's, for being stupid. They think longterm and is realistic about difficult political decisions. Thats why you see their current government telling Greece to make cuts and tighten their belt, something that the german people have had to do themselves.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

This government requirement that all people must now have a form of healthcare does worry me, though.

You are not allowed to choose if you want to cover yourself for healthcare anymore. All of the college students working their first job out of school who are still swamped with loans now have to budget for healthcare when they are already in perfect health and can get by for a few years.

No matter what people say, this bill has nothing to do with healthcare. This is about power and money. Democrats who just decided to vote on the bill didn't say yes becuase the bill is what they wanted, they said yes becuse inside this massive thing they are getting some extras. After 1 year of debating, these democrats still didn't want to vote on it becuase they didn't like the bill, yet at the last month they all change their minds? Nope. They were given plenty of little extras.

Why do you think this bill was created mostly behind closed doors AND why do you think that they are voting on it ONLY when the democrats had enough? It's a broken system that both parties have used to exploit stuff. To bad the last time this happened I was still in high school and didn't care.

They should have voted on this months ago, set a deadline and voted, not kept putting it off until the democrats had the votes. Why bother voting, if you can basically hold off everything until you guarentee a win.

This isn't a democracy anymore, this is a joke.