House Democrats have 216 votes needed to pass US health care reform.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I will say this much after reading what you just posted I'm through talking to you and I suggest you do some homework. You are as left as they come, and really have no clue. Thanks for the philosphy.dkrustyklown

It's classical Marxist/Leninism. He's harping the tenets of a failed ideology. All of this, "property is theft" nonsense leads only to slavery and corruption of grand proportions. All this talk of "democratic control of the mans of production" is but a cover phrase for "dictatorship of the proletariat".

Communism has been quitely simmering on the fringes of the American left since the 1910's. Periodically, when a left-of-center government comes into power, it bubbles up to the surface to expose its full indecency to the American people. It usually ends up being the cause of a resurgent right, though.

The dirty little secret was that McCarthy and Nixon were right, and there was plenty of communist infiltration in our society. They should have stamped it out when they had the momentum back in the 1950's.

Not unless they are a slave to money. They dont have to be, but I do acknowledge wage slavery. your idea of "not being a slave" is pretending you own your money?Atheists_Pwn

Value is denoted by money. People work for one and only one reason, and that is to make money. People don't work because it makes them feel good. People don't work because it "helps" society. People don't work for any other reason besides money.

If I have control over how money that I earn is spent, then I have effective ownership of that money, regardless of what institution's name is printed on that note. The more government controls how my money is spent (or taxed), then the less that I own my own wages, and the more of a slave to the state I become.

To "own your money" means to be in control of how one's money is spent. When that control is relinqueshed, then the only result is slavery. What's the point of working for money if I cannot control how that money is spent?

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] What do you think this country's market is based off of? Why do you think America got where it got? Do you know history? Last time I check we weren't communists. Unless this is the USSR.xscrapzx

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"]Not unless they are a slave to money. They dont have to be, but I do acknowledge wage slavery. your idea of "not being a slave" is pretending you own your money?dkrustyklown

Value is denoted by money. People work for one and only one reason, and that is to make money. People don't work because it makes them feel good. People don't work because it "helps" society. People don't work for any other reason besides money.

If I have control over how money that I earn is spent, then I have effective ownership of that money, regardless of what institution's name is printed on that note. The more government controls how my money is spent (or taxed), then the less that I own my own wages, and the more of a slave to the state I become.

To "own your money" means to be in control of how one's money is spent. When that control is relinqueshed, then the only result is slavery. What's the point of working for money if I cannot control how that money is spent?

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I will say this much after reading what you just posted I'm through talking to you and I suggest you do some homework. You are as left as they come, and really have no clue. Thanks for the philosphy.xscrapzx

It's classical Marxist/Leninism. He's harping the tenets of a failed ideology. All of this, "property is theft" nonsense leads only to slavery and corruption of grand proportions. All this talk of "democratic control of the mans of production" is but a cover phrase for "dictatorship of the proletariat".

Communism has been quitely simmering on the fringes of the American left since the 1910's. Periodically, when a left-of-center government comes into power, it bubbles up to the surface to expose its full indecency to the American people. It usually ends up being the cause of a resurgent right, though.

The dirty little secret was that McCarthy and Nixon were right, and there was plenty of communist infiltration in our society. They should have stamped it out when they had the momentum back in the 1950's.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"] That comment is all over the place. Its hard to see if theres really a point buried there at all. Our market is keynesian, largely protectionist and somewhat mixed.Atheists_Pwn

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I will say this much after reading what you just posted I'm through talking to you and I suggest you do some homework. You are as left as they come, and really have no clue. Thanks for the philosphy.xscrapzx

It's classical Marxist/Leninism. He's harping the tenets of a failed ideology. All of this, "property is theft" nonsense leads only to slavery and corruption of grand proportions. All this talk of "democratic control of the mans of production" is but a cover phrase for "dictatorship of the proletariat".

Communism has been quitely simmering on the fringes of the American left since the 1910's. Periodically, when a left-of-center government comes into power, it bubbles up to the surface to expose its full indecency to the American people. It usually ends up being the cause of a resurgent right, though.

The dirty little secret was that McCarthy and Nixon were right, and there was plenty of communist infiltration in our society. They should have stamped it out when they had the momentum back in the 1950's.

The odd part is that some are using the langauge of Marxism, yet the health care reform law that was passed by Congress yesterday is not classical Marxism. Classical Marxism would have opposed this law. This law is a hybrid beast born of the same unholy union between socialistic collectivism and corporatist nationalism that caused havoc in the early part of the 20th century. We should take careful consideration of how that turned out.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

It's classical Marxist/Leninism. He's harping the tenets of a failed ideology. All of this, "property is theft" nonsense leads only to slavery and corruption of grand proportions. All this talk of "democratic control of the mans of production" is but a cover phrase for "dictatorship of the proletariat".

Communism has been quitely simmering on the fringes of the American left since the 1910's. Periodically, when a left-of-center government comes into power, it bubbles up to the surface to expose its full indecency to the American people. It usually ends up being the cause of a resurgent right, though.

The dirty little secret was that McCarthy and Nixon were right, and there was plenty of communist infiltration in our society. They should have stamped it out when they had the momentum back in the 1950's.

Atheists_Pwn

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] No I think it was pretty easy to understand considering it was just questions. This country is not a superpower because of the stuff your spewing. I'm fully aware that this country has a mixed market. Unfortunately you think Human's desires and wants aren't there, because if they weren't everything you have stated this evening would be true. xscrapzx

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Too bad he doesn't understand why none of that has succeeded ever and it never will. Why? Human's desires/wants always exceed human's needs. Hence why socialism and commuinism have been epic fails. He will learn. There is nothing wrong with being liberal, but at some point you gotta find out that this is not utopia this is reality.xscrapzx

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

It's classical Marxist/Leninism. He's harping the tenets of a failed ideology. All of this, "property is theft" nonsense leads only to slavery and corruption of grand proportions. All this talk of "democratic control of the mans of production" is but a cover phrase for "dictatorship of the proletariat".

Communism has been quitely simmering on the fringes of the American left since the 1910's. Periodically, when a left-of-center government comes into power, it bubbles up to the surface to expose its full indecency to the American people. It usually ends up being the cause of a resurgent right, though.

The dirty little secret was that McCarthy and Nixon were right, and there was plenty of communist infiltration in our society. They should have stamped it out when they had the momentum back in the 1950's.

dkrustyklown

The odd part is that some are using the langauge of Marxism, yet the health care reform law that was passed by Congress yesterday is not classical Marxism. Classical Marxism would have opposed this law. This law is a hybrid beast born of the same unholy union between socialistic collectivism and corporatist nationalism caused havoc in the early part of the 20th century. We should take careful consideration of how that turned out.

i think this is not the right thing we need.

this bill will force ALL Americans to get health insurance. if not then the IRS will fine you and the fines will go up year after year. the government is now going to force me to buy something i can not afford in the 1st place? yes the government (gov) will help me out with paying only part of the insurance (plan) but right now the way things are with money a extra cost over $50 is bad for me! so ill be force to spend money i dont have. but i have to get by law or get punished.

anyone with a pre-condition will not get help. the bill did not regulate the insurance company's. they are not forced to say no to very high risk health people all they, have to do is give them a very high plan that government help will still not be enough to lower the cost. this is a very high possibility that might and can happen. if not they will be put into a very high health risk pool.

the IRS is going to get close to 17,000 new agents to over see this. they will make sure we get the right plan with the right coverage if not they will fine us.

also this bill will make any businesses that has over 50 workers get insurance for them if not then they will get fined by the IRS $2000 for each worker after 30 workers. this will make comapnys even more small businesses lay off workers to 49 the rest will get the pink slip. how is that going to help the economy if it will put a lot more people out of work and more businesses to close there doors and make it even more harder for anyone to find work.

also this bill will cut the nations debits by $138 billion in 10 years but also its going to add $900 billion in 10 years on top of it, how is this going to lower our debit? plus health cost always goes up it, it never goes down so we will always keep putting more money into this!

anyone making over $88,000 will not get help by the government they are on there own to get insurance doesnt matter how much it will cost them if they dont get coverage the IRS will fine them. anyone making under $88,000 will get help by the government to help pay for there plans but still we have to get coverage and pay for the remaining that was not paid. any family of 4 making less then $24,000 will get free coverage from the government.

also this bill is only to help pay for coverage. not to pay features a plan have. so we can pay a plan for $50 a month, but the plan says you pay $20 per visit and what if you have 2 or more visits in one month? what if you get coverage that the plan will says you pay only $10 per bottle of pills you need to get. and i know people that gets about 5+ bottles when they need to refill. so the cost starts to add up.

Where is all this money going to come from to fund all this!? 1st anyone making $200,000 a year will get hit with a tax for this. there will be a pay roll tax meaning we might get more money taken out from our pay checks for anyone working with a W2 form to pay for this. We are going to end up borrowing more money and that will bring our debits even more higher this also will bring more higher tax to the working middle class!

this is not things im just saying this is all in the bill! read it and see it. this is communism, how are you going to tell me this is not? if the government is going to force me to buy something even more i cant afford it and if not ill get punished for it? the IRS with the new agents to over see this, IS the new KGB if you are not seeing this as a big threat to our nation then i dont know what to say.

our nation is becoming the new USSR but it will be the USSA. if this keeps up and if we dont stop this now. what makes you think they wont pass more bills that will force us to do things we can not afford and will get punished for it!?

this bill is going to cost us to much money that the government later down the road will start to say no to people for health coverage because it will cost the government to much money to keep them in the hospital like the soveits did in the USSR. this is not a wide overreacting idea it is possable cant you see that history is repeating it self!

i think this is not the right thing we need.

this bill will force ALL Americans to get health insurance. if not then the IRS will fine you and the fines will go up year after year. the government is now going to force me to buy something i can not afford in the 1st place? yes the government (gov) will help me out with paying only part of the insurance (plan) but right now the way things are with money a extra cost over $50 is bad for me! so ill be force to spend money i dont have. but i have to get by law or get punished.

anyone with a pre-condition will not get help. the bill did not regulate the insurance company's. they are not forced to say no to very high risk health people all they, have to do is give them a very high plan that government help will still not be enough to lower the cost. this is a very high possibility that might and can happen. if not they will be put into a very high health risk pool.

the IRS is going to get close to 17,000 new agents to over see this. they will make sure we get the right plan with the right coverage if not they will fine us.

also this bill will make any businesses that has over 50 workers get insurance for them if not then they will get fined by the IRS $2000 for each worker after 30 workers. this will make comapnys even more small businesses lay off workers to 49 the rest will get the pink slip. how is that going to help the economy if it will put a lot more people out of work and more businesses to close there doors and make it even more harder for anyone to find work.

also this bill will cut the nations debits by $138 billion in 10 years but also its going to add $900 billion in 10 years on top of it, how is this going to lower our debit? plus health cost always goes up it, it never goes down so we will always keep putting more money into this!

anyone making over $88,000 will not get help by the government they are on there own to get insurance doesnt matter how much it will cost them if they dont get coverage the IRS will fine them. anyone making under $88,000 will get help by the government to help pay for there plans but still we have to get coverage and pay for the remaining that was not paid. any family of 4 making less then $24,000 will get free coverage from the government.

also this bill is only to help pay for coverage. not to pay features a plan have. so we can pay a plan for $50 a month, but the plan says you pay $20 per visit and what if you have 2 or more visits in one month? what if you get coverage that the plan will says you pay only $10 per bottle of pills you need to get. and i know people that gets about 5+ bottles when they need to refill. so the cost starts to add up.

Where is all this money going to come from to fund all this!? 1st anyone making $200,000 a year will get hit with a tax for this. there will be a pay roll tax meaning we might get more money taken out from our pay checks for anyone working with a W2 form to pay for this. We are going to end up borrowing more money and that will bring our debits even more higher this also will bring more higher tax to the working middle class!

this is not things im just saying this is all in the bill! read it and see it. this is communism, how are you going to tell me this is not? if the government is going to force me to buy something even more i cant afford it and if not ill get punished for it? the IRS with the new agents to over see this, IS the new KGB if you are not seeing this as a big threat to our nation then i dont know what to say.

our nation is becoming the new USSR but it will be the USSA. if this keeps up and if we dont stop this now. what makes you think they wont pass more bills that will force us to do things we can not afford and will get punished for it!?

this bill is going to cost us to much money that the government later down the road will start to say no to people for health coverage because it will cost the government to much money to keep them in the hospital like the soveits did in the USSR. this is not a wide overreacting idea it is possable cant you see that history is repeating it self!

acsam12304

Yep.

Don't forget that the prescription portions of insurance plans will most likely have limited formularies, just like in Medicare Part D. This will mean that if you have 3 or 4 prescriptions, chances are that one or more of those prescriptions will not be covered at all by this required, so-called, insurance.

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Too bad he doesn't understand why none of that has succeeded ever and it never will. Why? Human's desires/wants always exceed human's needs. Hence why socialism and commuinism have been epic fails. He will learn. There is nothing wrong with being liberal, but at some point you gotta find out that this is not utopia this is reality.xscrapzx

The odd part is that some are using the langauge of Marxism, yet the health care reform law that was passed by Congress yesterday is not classical Marxism. Classical Marxism would have opposed this law. This law is a hybrid beast born of the same unholy union between socialistic collectivism and corporatist nationalism caused havoc in the early part of the 20th century. We should take careful consideration of how that turned out.

Sit back and enjoy the show i suppose..

Sit back and enjoy the show i suppose..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Sit back and enjoy the show i suppose..

Avian005

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Sit back and enjoy the show i suppose..

Avian005

My thoughts exactly :P..

Sit back and enjoy the show i suppose..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Sit back and enjoy the show i suppose..

Mousetaches

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Sit back and enjoy the show i suppose..

Mousetaches

All the lay people arguing as if their opinion matters...it passed, nothing we can do...possibly oppose it...but not like Obama will take any notice...

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

The odd part is that some are using the langauge of Marxism, yet the health care reform law that was passed by Congress yesterday is not classical Marxism. Classical Marxism would have opposed this law. This law is a hybrid beast born of the same unholy union between socialistic collectivism and corporatist nationalism caused havoc in the early part of the 20th century. We should take careful consideration of how that turned out.

Atheists_Pwn

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Actually Karl Marx probably would not be so against capitalism if he saw how pieces of it are being used today.

xscrapzx

Government forcing people at gunpoint to become customers of corporate interests is not socialism. A single-payer system would have been socialist. What we're getting, however, is far from that, and far more insidious. Merger of corporate & state interests=fascism.

Welcome to feudalistic America. Your serfdom awaits.

dkrustyklown

Excellent post. The number of people screaming "socialism" isn't much helping our case. "Corporatist" seems to be the correct way to word this legislation.

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

Government forcing people at gunpoint to become customers of corporate interests is not socialism. A single-payer system would have been socialist. What we're getting, however, is far from that, and far more insidious. Merger of corporate & state interests=fascism.

Welcome to feudalistic America. Your serfdom awaits.

coolbeans90

Excellent post. The number of people screaming "socialism" isn't much helping our case. "Corporatist" seems to be the correct way to word this legislation.

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

Government forcing people at gunpoint to become customers of corporate interests is not socialism. A single-payer system would have been socialist. What we're getting, however, is far from that, and far more insidious. Merger of corporate & state interests=fascism.

Welcome to feudalistic America. Your serfdom awaits.

coolbeans90

Excellent post. The number of people screaming "socialism" isn't much helping our case. "Corporatist" seems to be the correct way to word this legislation.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

Government forcing people at gunpoint to become customers of corporate interests is not socialism. A single-payer system would have been socialist. What we're getting, however, is far from that, and far more insidious. Merger of corporate & state interests=fascism.

Welcome to feudalistic America. Your serfdom awaits.

Atheists_Pwn

Excellent post. The number of people screaming "socialism" isn't much helping our case. "Corporatist" seems to be the correct way to word this legislation.

I honestly don't see the problem with a financially self-sufficient public option provided that it has no influence on the regulatory system. My issue is with the individual mandate. The Republicans spent to much time shooting ghosts. If the government was going turn the system into single payer, it would either extend medicare coverage, or nationalize the current private infrastructure. Thank God for the Republican Party. :roll:

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

Government forcing people at gunpoint to become customers of corporate interests is not socialism. A single-payer system would have been socialist. What we're getting, however, is far from that, and far more insidious. Merger of corporate & state interests=fascism.

Welcome to feudalistic America. Your serfdom awaits.

Snipes_2

Excellent post. The number of people screaming "socialism" isn't much helping our case. "Corporatist" seems to be the correct way to word this legislation.

Yeah, I think I'll just be one of those lords with a health care castle. Wait? Dammit!! I don't have an insurance company!!

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Excellent post. The number of people screaming "socialism" isn't much helping our case. "Corporatist" seems to be the correct way to word this legislation.

coolbeans90

Yeah, I think I'll just be one of those lords with a health care castle. Wait? Dammit!! I don't have an insurance company!!

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I don't want to be a serf though :evil: Could this also be linked to Manorialism in some ways too?Snipes_2

Yeah, I think I'll just be one of those lords with a health care castle. Wait? Dammit!! I don't have an insurance company!!

So, I guess I'm supposed to farm money, and give you a portion of it. In return I have insurance. If I don't give you the money, you'll either fine me, or throw me in a dungeon. Hmm.