How did Jesus dying save us from our sins?

You know how in the Old Testament God required a sacrifise to forgive sins? Well, Jesus, who was a perfect human and a perfect God, was the perfect sacrifice. So, God now forgives anybody that calls on Jesus to save them.

PM me if you have more personal questions. :D

Jesus beared our sin debt when God forsaked him when he was crucified.

Basically, God turned his back on Jesus

Wait god requires sacrifices?  Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.ZackMorris-

Not so much requires as it would just be really swell. :)

Wait god requires sacrifices?  Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.ZackMorris-

Did you actually read my comment? Sacrifices are no longer required.

[QUOTE="ZackMorris-"]Wait god requires sacrifices?  Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.Silver_Dragon17

Did you actually read my comment? Sacrifices are no longer required.

[QUOTE="ZackMorris-"]Wait god requires sacrifices? Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.Silver_Dragon17

Did you actually read my comment? Sacrifices are no longer required.

[QUOTE="ZackMorris-"]Wait god requires sacrifices? Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.SaugaGames

Not so much requires as it would just be really swell. :)

Also the whole turning water into wine thing guess what greek god can do that,  that's right it's Dionysus the god of wine. Also the whole eat the flesh and blood of Jesus thing, that's something that happens with Dionysus.  See the resemblance? 

[QUOTE="SaugaGames"]

[QUOTE="ZackMorris-"]Wait god requires sacrifices? Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.ZackMorris-

Not so much requires as it would just be really swell. :)

Also the whole turning water into wine thing guess what greek god can do that,  that's right it's Dionysus the god of wine. Also the whole eat the flesh and blood of Jesus thing, that's something that happens with Dionysus.  See the resemblance? 

Ah.  Religion based debates on the internet.

 Too many of them.  I never hear so many comments frothing with inaccuracy than on the internet.

No offense intended I just tend to leave them alone.  Most people here seem pretty educated and nice.  I just live by my faith and treat others how they like to be treated and just do what the bible says, and it had made me a better person.

Even if you don't believe in the stories there are some wonderful meanings in there. 

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="ZackMorris-"]Wait god requires sacrifices? Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.CptJSparrow

Did you actually read my comment? Sacrifices are no longer required.

Ahh, something we can agree on.*Shakes hand*

Wait god requires sacrifices?  Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.ZackMorris-

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="ZackMorris-"]Wait god requires sacrifices? Geez this just proves christianity was based on old greek gods.CptJSparrow

Did you actually read my comment? Sacrifices are no longer required.

So the story goes... God being the all-knowing, all-powerful being he is creates Adam and Eve knowing full well they would disobey him and cause original sin thus screwing all the humans that would come after. Apparently, some time later he wants to forgive humans for doing what he already knew they would do... but he can't just forgive us, he has to make a spectacle of it. So he sends his son, which also happens to be him, down to earth to be tortured; because violence is the only way to get your point across apparently.

Why God couldn't just forgive humans for doing exactly what he knew they would do in the first place is beyond any amount of reasoning... or better yet he could just have prevented original sin. But then you would actually have to buy into that whole garden of eden crap.

Even if you don't believe in the stories there are some wonderful meanings in there.

-Jammo-

Yeah like that one story where it tells me to stone everyone that's not christian or the one where god tortures this guy nearly to death to prove to satan that the guy will still worship him.  

http://digg.com/offbeat_news/How_many_people_did_God_kill_in_the_Bible_versus_Satan

 tis' funny, God is supposedly good....mmmk, but see, he killed more people than the Satan, so..um...whos the bad guy again? I can tell you that in California, God would be on death row...

So the story goes... God being the all-knowing, all-powerful being he is creates Adam and Eve knowing full well they would disobey him and cause original sin thus screwing all the humans that would come after. Apparently, some time later he wants to forgive humans for doing what he already knew they would do... but he can't just forgive us, he has to make a spectacle of it. So he sends his son, which also happens to be him, down to earth to be tortured; because violence is the only way to get your point across apparently.

Why God couldn't just forgive humans for doing exactly what he knew they would do in the first place is beyond any amount of reasoning... or better yet he could just have prevented original sin. But then you would actually have to buy into that whole garden of eden crap.

dainjah1010

 Why God allowed man to sin:

God wanted man to love him of his own volition. In order to do that, God gave man free will to choose either to love Him and obey Him or not. God's love would be superficial and selfish if He forced man to love Him.

 Also, God promised to redeem man when man fell.

Genesis 3:15- "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

For more information about that: http://www.bibleed.com/bibleteachings/jesusandthepromises/promiseineden.asp 

Yeah like that one story where it tells me to stone everyone that's not christian or the one where god tortures this guy nearly to death to prove to satan that the guy will still worship him.  

As for God telling Christians to stone nonbelievers: John 8:1-11- Jesus saves a woman from being stoned for adultery.

As for suffering Christians: Matthew 10:39- Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 

As for judging God's actions: Job 38:2-7- "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone-- while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

psr388

Yeah like that one story where it tells me to stone everyone that's not christian or the one where god tortures this guy nearly to death to prove to satan that the guy will still worship him.  

As for God telling Christians to stone nonbelievers: John 8:1-11- Jesus saves a woman from being stoned for adultery.

As for suffering Christians: Matthew 10:39- Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 

As for judging God's actions: Job 38:2-7- "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone-- while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

nice finds there, I totally agree.

It's not supposed to make sense.  If it made sense, it would be called "facts" instead of "religion." 

Seriously though, I've long asked the same thing.  My conclusion is that the Bible's God is a sadist and an egomaniac.

I challenge someone to demonstrate to me how the Bible's God is not either of those things.

It's not supposed to make sense.  If it made sense, it would be called "facts" instead of "religion." 

Seriously though, I've long asked the same thing.  My conclusion is that the Bible's God is a sadist and an egomaniac.

I challenge someone to demonstrate to me how the Bible's God is not either of those things.

SpaceMoose

read psr's posts, that would be pretty helpful.  man, I hate how the media and some of the crazier Christians only talk about hell and all of that.  the Bible is not about that, you cannot judge the entire book by just a few verses, you need to take in the book as a whole.  people need to stop judging things if they do not know all of the facts first.

It's not supposed to make sense.  If it made sense, it would be called "facts" instead of "religion." 

Seriously though, I've long asked the same thing.  My conclusion is that the Bible's God is a sadist and an egomaniac.

I challenge someone to demonstrate to me how the Bible's God is not either of those things.

SpaceMoose

God offers a free way to escape from eternal damnation and to live for eternity in paradise.

That really sounds sadistic and selfish.

It's a confusingly strange setup.

1. The Adam and Eve story is required to be literal, because if it is metaphor then there is no literal sin inherent in all of mankind. We know however that humans were involved in the evolution of all life on this planet, we didn't pop into existence, thus disputing Adam & Eve and the temptation fable.

2. Eve is condemned for eating from the 'Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.' (it's full name) God, apparently is allowed to punish things that have no concept of good and evil which in itself is seemingly immoral. 

3. Jesus was born without original sin, yet he is supposed to be human, and all humans are supposed to have original sin as passed down through Eve (hence the hatred some Christians have of women, catholic church inclusive). This disputes Jesus as a representative of humanity.

4. The conditions which disavow Jesus of original sin (The Immaculate Conception) suggest that Original Sin has a genetic component (passed down through humans), yet there is no such Sin gene. Of course this bit of folklore was created before they understood that genes exist.

5. Because God works in absurd ways, it chooses to sacrifice it's God-human chimera (Jesus) to forgive original sin. 

6. The followers of this chimera never cease to forget to remind everyone of this sacrifice and why their religion is the only one that leads to salvation because of it. Unfortunately, they forgot to retain any proof this chimera ever existed in the first place. Oops?

read psr's posts, that would be pretty helpful.  man, I hate how the media and some of the crazier Christians only talk about hell and all of that.  the Bible is not about that, you cannot judge the entire book by just a few verses, you need to take in the book as a whole.  people need to stop judging things if they do not know all of the facts first.

That's very true. Christianity is all about love, life, and freedom through Christ. It's amazing how many can't grasp that.

It's a confusingly strange setup.

1. The Adam and Eve story is required to be literal, because if it is metaphor then there is no literal sin inherent in all of mankind. We know however that humans were involved in the evolution of all life on this planet, we didn't pop into existence, thus disputing Adam & Eve and the temptation fable.

2. Eve is condemned for eating from the 'Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.' (it's full name) God, apparently is allowed to punish things that have no concept of good and evil which in itself is seemingly immoral. 

3. Jesus was born without original sin, yet he is supposed to be human, and all humans are supposed to have original sin as passed down through Eve (hence the hatred some Christians have of women, catholic church inclusive). This disputes Jesus as a representative of humanity.

4. The conditions which disavow Jesus of original sin (The Immaculate Conception) suggest that Original Sin has a genetic component (passed down through humans), yet there is no such Sin gene. Of course this bit of folklore was created before they understood that genes exist.

5. Because God works in absurd ways, it chooses to sacrifice it's God-human chimera (Jesus) to forgive original sin. 

6. The followers of this chimera never cease to forget to remind everyone of this sacrifice and why their religion is the only one that leads to salvation because of it. Unfortunately, they forgot to retain any proof this chimera ever existed in the first place. Oops?

Atrus

This will be fun...

1. Evolution is still a theory. There is no bedrock evidence.

2. God has placed morality in all men. Anyway, she knew God told her not to eat it: she knowingly chose to disobey God.

3. Jesus has God's nature, so he can't sin. His is God in human form.

4. Sin is passed from the soul. The soul cannot be examined by man. I don't think you want to disprove the existence of the soul.

5. God sacrificed Himself so that man wouldn't have to die. This isn't absurd; it's merciful.

6. Historians at the time of Christ recorded his existence. Thousands interacted with him throughout his earthly life. The body of Christ was never found.

To go in there, the high priest had to take off the colorful garments he wore on other days. After washing himself, he would put on plain white linen clothes. He would have to kill a bull by himself, and take its blood with him into the presence of God through a curtain that separated where priests went every day from where he would go only on this day.

The priest had to open the curtain to enter, but this would expose the presence of God to human sight. So it had to be obscured by smoke on penalty of death, if the priest did not do this. The priest would carry a pot full of coals taken from the large altar outside, and when he opened the curtain, he would drop two handfuls of incense on the hot coals. The burning spices would create enough smoke to hide the glory of the Lord from the sinner's view. Only then could he go in and sprinkle blood on and before the atonement cover.

He then had to go out and get more blood, this time from a goat. Casting lots to see which one was to be offered, he then killed it. The blood of that goat was also taken into the presence of God and sprinkled where the other blood was already. When that was done, he was through inside; he did not sit down or have a chat. He had to leave that most holy place and could not return for a year. No one else was to be anywhere in the area when he did all this. The high priest was to act alone. He was to stand while making his offerings of blood, and leave. The other goat was waiting outside.

After making atonement for that most holy place, he went out and put blood on the horns of the large outdoor altar. Then, out where the people could see him, he went up to the live goat, laid both hands on its head, confessed out loud all the sins the Israelites had committed that year, all the while keeping his hands on the goat's head. After that, some other man who was not so tired was to take that goat so far away it would never come back again.

Finally it was time to remove those once-a-year clothes, wash up and offer the regular offerings that other priests offered every day. By himself, the high priest had to slay all the other sacrifices of the day which according to Number 29:7-11 comprised nine more animals. He must have been one weary high priest when it was all done. His duties that day were heavy. If he followed the Lord's instructions, when it was all over, he would still be alive at the end of the day, so he would be relieved as well as weary. He had had the privilege to represent his people in their need before God. He had approached their Sovereign Lord in the way commanded. He had made atonement.

Anyways, when Jesus arrived on the scene, he was supposed to make God more approachable to man.  Man no longer had to do these animal sacrifices because Jesus shed his blood to become the ultimate sacrifice.  When Jesus died, he went into the spiritual realm of hell and suffered there for three days.  At the end of that period, he raised himself physically from the dead and ascended into heaven, waiting for his followers to join him.  He went to hell and endured death as a statement that he had control over all and as long as we believe on him, we can have control over all through him.

 Anyways, yea, that's the way the Christian church teaches it.  And most of that about Yom Kippur was borrowed from http://www.grebeweb.com/linden/day_of_atonement.html

[QUOTE="Atrus"]

It's a confusingly strange setup.

1. The Adam and Eve story is required to be literal, because if it is metaphor then there is no literal sin inherent in all of mankind. We know however that humans were involved in the evolution of all life on this planet, we didn't pop into existence, thus disputing Adam & Eve and the temptation fable.

2. Eve is condemned for eating from the 'Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.' (it's full name) God, apparently is allowed to punish things that have no concept of good and evil which in itself is seemingly immoral. 

3. Jesus was born without original sin, yet he is supposed to be human, and all humans are supposed to have original sin as passed down through Eve (hence the hatred some Christians have of women, catholic church inclusive). This disputes Jesus as a representative of humanity.

4. The conditions which disavow Jesus of original sin (The Immaculate Conception) suggest that Original Sin has a genetic component (passed down through humans), yet there is no such Sin gene. Of course this bit of folklore was created before they understood that genes exist.

5. Because God works in absurd ways, it chooses to sacrifice it's God-human chimera (Jesus) to forgive original sin. 

6. The followers of this chimera never cease to forget to remind everyone of this sacrifice and why their religion is the only one that leads to salvation because of it. Unfortunately, they forgot to retain any proof this chimera ever existed in the first place. Oops?

psr388

This will be fun...

1. Evolution is still a theory. There is no bedrock evidence.

2. God has placed morality in all men. Anyway, she knew God told her not to eat it: she knowingly chose to disobey God.

3. Jesus has God's nature, so he can't sin. His is God in human form.

4. Sin is passed from the soul. The soul cannot be examined by man. I don't think you want to disprove the existence of the soul.

5. God sacrificed Himself so that man wouldn't have to die. This isn't absurd; it's merciful.

6. Historians at the time of Christ recorded his existence. Thousands interacted with him throughout his earthly life. The body of Christ was never found.

i agree except for your first point.  although its still a theory it has largely been proven, but they still don't know everything about it, and there are still may things to be discovered.  this does not stop me from worshiping God, though.  who knows? maybe God did create evolution, which evolved into adam and eve, but God did not mention it in the Bible because the people in the past wouldn't understand.  i wouldn't put all of my focus on Genesis, though, the Bible is a long and interesting book.  if you ever see a book called the Language of God, go check it out, its an awesome book.  honestly, i still need to pick it up, but I've read some of it and its awesome.

i agree except for your first point.  although its still a theory it has largely been proven, but they still don't know everything about it, and there are still may things to be discovered.  this does not stop me from worshiping God, though.  who knows? maybe God did create evolution, which evolved into adam and eve, but God did not mention it in the Bible because the people in the past wouldn't understand.  i wouldn't put all of my focus on Genesis, though, the Bible is a long and interesting book.  if you ever see a book called the Language of God, go check it out, its an awesome book.  honestly, i still need to pick it up, but I've read some of it and its awesome.

It depends in what you believe in long vs. short day creation. (Long day meaning the six days of creation were actually eons like in evolution/ short day meaning the traditional sense of creation) I chose to believe in short day creation because the other somewhat eats away at the credibility of Genesis's narrative, but your right. Believing either way is not a major issue and doesn't affect your relationship with God.

As for the book, I'll check it out.

[QUOTE="-Jammo-"]

Even if you don't believe in the stories there are some wonderful meanings in there.

ZackMorris-

Yeah like that one story where it tells me to stone everyone that's not christian or the one where god tortures this guy nearly to death to prove to satan that the guy will still worship him.  

Have you, like, actually read scripture?

3. Jesus has God's nature, so he can't sin. His is God in human form.

5. God sacrificed Himself so that man wouldn't have to die. This isn't absurd; it's merciful.
psr388

Question. Hebrews 5:7 says:

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. (NIV)

So, if Jesus was God in human form, who is the "one who could save him"? If he really was God in human form, there was no one he could pray to as described in this verse.

[QUOTE="psr388"]

3. Jesus has God's nature, so he can't sin. His is God in human form.

5. God sacrificed Himself so that man wouldn't have to die. This isn't absurd; it's merciful.
dog64

Question. Hebrews 5:7 says:

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. (NIV)

So, if Jesus was God in human form, who is the "one who could save him"? If he really was God in human form, there was no one he could pray to as described in this verse.

God exists in three forms simultaneously: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit hadn't come to earth yet, I assume Christ prayed to the Father.

[QUOTE="ZackMorris-"][QUOTE="-Jammo-"]

Even if you don't believe in the stories there are some wonderful meanings in there.

fidosim

Yeah like that one story where it tells me to stone everyone that's not christian or the one where god tortures this guy nearly to death to prove to satan that the guy will still worship him.

Have you, like, actually read scripture?

I'll take that wager. 

This will be fun...

1. Evolution is still a theory. There is no bedrock evidence.

2. God has placed morality in all men. Anyway, she knew God told her not to eat it: she knowingly chose to disobey God.

3. Jesus has God's nature, so he can't sin. His is God in human form.

4. Sin is passed from the soul. The soul cannot be examined by man. I don't think you want to disprove the existence of the soul.

5. God sacrificed Himself so that man wouldn't have to die. This isn't absurd; it's merciful.

6. Historians at the time of Christ recorded his existence. Thousands interacted with him throughout his earthly life. The body of Christ was never found.

psr388

1. Evolution is a fact, and no less a fact than atoms, gravity, or plate tectonics.

2. Eve had no idea of what was good or evil, as such she had no idea that disobeying god was a good or evil thing to do. Prior to such knowledge she cannot be held culpable of such at thing.

3. Except his human form was just a shell that had no relationship to humans whatsoever. He was supposed to be God in human form, but without Original Sin, he surely didn't share in full humanity.

4. It's not up to me to disprove the soul, its up to you to prove one exists in the first place.

5. It's absurd for an omni-being to declare a sacrifice when he could have easily revoked it by merely thinking about it and placing the knowledge of the act in every human. Human-God sacrifice wasn't needed, and wouldn't have been chosen from an omni-benevolant being.

6. False. There are no contemporaries who record Jesus' existence. The earliest records were written well after the supposed date of Jesus, like Josephus, and even that was based on heresay and rumour.

6. False. There are no contemporaries who record Jesus' existence. The earliest records were written well after the supposed date of Jesus, like Josephus, and even that was based on heresay and rumour. Atrus

Why do most historians believe that Jesus really existed then? I'm an atheist by the way. 

[QUOTE="Atrus"]6. False. There are no contemporaries who record Jesus' existence. The earliest records were written well after the supposed date of Jesus, like Josephus, and even that was based on heresay and rumour. Herrick

Why do most historians believe that Jesus really existed then? I'm an atheist by the way. 

Empirical evidence. From jerusualem, to egypt, to even remote accounts in what is india today, the man known as Jesus has been accounted for in a variety of sources religious and non-religious oriented.

[QUOTE="dog64"][QUOTE="psr388"]

3. Jesus has God's nature, so he can't sin. His is God in human form.

5. God sacrificed Himself so that man wouldn't have to die. This isn't absurd; it's merciful.
psr388

Question. Hebrews 5:7 says:

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. (NIV)

So, if Jesus was God in human form, who is the "one who could save him"? If he really was God in human form, there was no one he could pray to as described in this verse.

God exists in three forms simultaneously: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit hadn't come to earth yet, I assume Christ prayed to the Father.

In other words, the Trinity. Well, I still don't see how God can be three forms at once. If Jesus was God himself and he came to earth, where were the other two parts of him? The Trinity sort of gives the picture that God has three heads. If this is true, Jesus was certainly not God, since three heads are on one body and Jesus of course, was one body. In order for this to all be true, God would either have to be three individuals or one person with three heads and he magically split up and came to earth. Sounds funny to me. But that's me.

Empirical evidence. From jerusualem, to egypt, to even remote accounts in what is india today, the man known as Jesus has been accounted for in a variety of sources religious and non-religious oriented.Devosion

Such as...?  

[QUOTE="psr388"]

This will be fun...

1. Evolution is still a theory. There is no bedrock evidence.

2. God has placed morality in all men. Anyway, she knew God told her not to eat it: she knowingly chose to disobey God.

3. Jesus has God's nature, so he can't sin. His is God in human form.

4. Sin is passed from the soul. The soul cannot be examined by man. I don't think you want to disprove the existence of the soul.

5. God sacrificed Himself so that man wouldn't have to die. This isn't absurd; it's merciful.

6. Historians at the time of Christ recorded his existence. Thousands interacted with him throughout his earthly life. The body of Christ was never found.

Atrus

1. Evolution is a fact, and no less a fact than atoms, gravity, or plate tectonics.

2. Eve had no idea of what was good or evil, as such she had no idea that disobeying god was a good or evil thing to do. Prior to such knowledge she cannot be held culpable of such at thing.

3. Except his human form was just a shell that had no relationship to humans whatsoever. He was supposed to be God in human form, but without Original Sin, he surely didn't share in full humanity.

4. It's not up to me to disprove the soul, its up to you to prove one exists in the first place.

5. It's absurd for an omni-being to declare a sacrifice when he could have easily revoked it by merely thinking about it and placing the knowledge of the act in every human. Human-God sacrifice wasn't needed, and wouldn't have been chosen from an omni-benevolant being.

6. False. There are no contemporaries who record Jesus' existence. The earliest records were written well after the supposed date of Jesus, like Josephus, and even that was based on heresay and rumour.

1. It's not called a theory for nothing. Show me an animal that is the go between for two different types. Evolution has not been viewed by man. If you think you can't believe in Christ because you did not see him, you can't believe in evolution either.

2. Genesis 3:3- but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will surely die." Sounds like a warning of punishment to me.

3. Matthew 4 is the temptation of Jesus. To be able to be tempted you must be able to sin. Christ must have been able to sin, yet the nature of God within him prevented himself from falling into sin.

4. You can neither prove nor disprove this, yet the effects of it are obvious, such as emotions, spirituality, individuality, ect.

5. Romans 3:23- For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Since man sinned, he is unable to be accepted in God's glory and must separate himself from man. Yet God still loved man enough that he sacrificed himself so that man could once again be seen as good in his eyes and live with him for eternity.

6. Christ was executed as a Roman criminal. There were records of this.

The Roman historian Tacitus mentioned him near the time of his life.

The historian Thallus refers to Christ.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of his followers.

Even false books such as the Gnostic Gospels refer to Jesus.

Why would his followers spread some false message and die for nothing? The Apostles got nothing materially from spreading the gospels. Would you die for a lie?

It is impossible to deny his existence.

[QUOTE="Atrus"]6. False. There are no contemporaries who record Jesus' existence. The earliest records were written well after the supposed date of Jesus, like Josephus, and even that was based on heresay and rumour. Herrick

Why do most historians believe that Jesus really existed then? I'm an atheist by the way. 

In fact, the majority of mankind believes Jesus existed. Many religions believe he existed. They just argue if he was the Messiah, the son of God, ect.

Now, although references to Jesus Christ by early secular historians are meager, such references do exist. Cornelius Tacitus, a respected first-century Roman historian, wrote: "The name Christian is derived from Christ, whom the procurator Pontius Pilate had executed in the reign of Tiberius." Suetonius and Pliny the Younger, other Roman writers of the time, also referred to Christ. In addition, Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish historian, wrote of James, whom he identified as "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ."

The New Encyclopedia Britannica also says: "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries."

So, there is documentation that Jesus existed. The question is who he was.