How is God Most forgiving,Most loving???

Ummm in the quran, god is a hateful being only, here is the truth....

God hates all workers of inequity, he hates those who loves sin, he hates sin...

But here comes the love part

He gave his only begotten son, so that anyone who believes in his son will inherit life. Gods son (Jesus christ) died on the cross to take the sin punishment for you, by believing jesus died for you, you take his perfect record, while he takes the punishment for your bad record. Get it? God provided a way to heaven, to anyone who wants to be saved, by repenting, believing in christ, and turning away from sin. That is all christianity is truely all about, christianity = god/christ. The holy trinity, the father, the son, and the holy spirit.

The Quran is a abomination of the true bible, it had no devine inspirtation, only perverting the words of god, mohhamed himself was an evil man, who killed many people for allah (which means allah in arabic, not god). Allah is the pagan moon god, who hates everyone, to spread Islam by the sword. The quran may contain some truths, just like catholicism does, but it is not the complete truth, it has many contradicting verses. Your actually correct to be thinking like you are, now here is the unheard truth.

Islam was created by the pope to kill the jews... Why do you think the crusades occured, because the muslims would not bow down to the pope after they took Jerusalem. The muslims rebelled, the reason why muslims dont like christians was because roman catholics told muslims to ignore christians.

Well I am not sayying this because I want to offend you, I am sayying this, because I know this is true... I hope you research my claims. Start with the Roman catholic Jesuit "Alberto." Who converted to christianity and exposed the catholic church. The secret is out! The vatican created Islam, even communism, the godfathers.

SegaGenesisfan

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

1. It's relevant, because, if you remember...

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

God is omnipotent... he could make it so that evil is not necessary for good to exist, right?LJS9502_basic

2. I don't see how suffering is necessary to be humans. I suppose Adam and Eve weren't human before Original Sin, then.

1. No....it's still not relevant because as I stated omnipotency has nothing to do with definitions. You can't have one extreme without the other. It's impossible.

2. Before the first of mankind sinned? And? They were put on earth in a human condition. I'm dealing with humans as we know them.

1. And that contradicts omnipotence. If God is omnipotent, he could make it so that you can have good without evil. If that is indeed impossible for God, he's not omnipotent. So your solution to the problem of evil (that you can't have good without evil), and the concept of an omnipotent God, are mutually exclusive. And since you do believe in an omnipotent God, your solution to the problem of evil cannot, therefore, be correct.

2. What kind of a counterargument is that? They were humans, and they had not suffered, therefore suffering is not necessary to be human.

Were they human? Can your prove that?

I used the idea of an omnipotent being as a premise in my argument. It is linked logically to the argument's conclusion. It's not irrelevant.

:roll: Just don't. You know Adam and Eve were humans. I know Adam and Eve were humans. Don't even bother going down that route.

The vatican created Islam, even communism, the godfathers.

SegaGenesisfan

Hah... this was the best bit... and there I was thinking that Karl Marx created communism.

I used the idea of an omnipotent being as a premise in my argument. It is linked logically to the argument's conclusion. It's not irrelevant.

:roll: Just don't. You know Adam and Eve were humans. I know Adam and Eve were humans. Don't even bother going down that route.

Funky_Llama

They were not humans as humans are now...no. Since the suffering was absent.

if u think God isn't all Forgiving or Merciful, ever wondered why u haven't faced hardships such as those poor people around the world who are starving to death. instead, u shud be thankful to Him that he didn't put u in this position!

besides, not tryin to offend u man but if u seriously dnt have faith in Allah, dnt be a Muslim. better instead, do a bit of research about the religion instead of just listening to what other people say.

[QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"][QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="Hitman_887"]

I am a Muslim and I always read in the Quran that God is the Most merciful,Most forgiving,Most loving.My parents tell me that God loves you 10 times more than your own mother:? .It's a saying of Prophet Muhammad.

How is it then that I have to go through so many difficulties in my life?My mother would never even want the slightest pain to come in my life if it was under her control.How is God Most forgiving when so many people will apparantely go to Hell?How is God Most caring when life is so unfair?Some people are born downright ugly with no way around it,some people are born with not enough money to feed themselves.

armen925

I used to be a muslim and i pondered the very same questions you did. The religion was so ingrained in me that i couldn't believe for one second that it could be false. I think its a poison but its also a source of hope but ultimately its a lie. I will tell you this if God is good, then he will never send anyone to hell. Dont let anyone trick you into answering your questions with false logic. They tell you God is testing you or God sends people to hell because he is just. You only need to look inside your heart to answer these questions.

So if a person disbelieves god, hates god, blames god for things that didnt even do, God wont punish him/her? Wow, you are delusional lol

My friend you are delusional not me. If a person disbelieves in you, hates you, blames you for things that you didn't do, you won't punish him/her?

I know you would put them in hell yes? Imagine, you living in heaven and your mother is in hell, because she sinned her whole life. This is the reality of the situation but you just dont understand.

and how is that any different from this life? People disobey they mothers, hell, u got teenage daughters foning police simply because their mother slapped em once just for a little disapline and self control. If we are in heaven, dont you think god will allow us to give us any wish taht we like? I assume so, so if you wish that you wanna be with your family, dont you think God will aprove? I think he would :|

if u think God isn't all Forgiving or Merciful, ever wondered why u haven't faced hardships such as those poor people around the world who are starving to death. instead, u shud be thankful to Him that he didn't put u in this position!

besides, not tryin to offend u man but if u seriously dnt have faith in Allah, dnt be a Muslim. better instead, do a bit of research about the religion instead of just listening to what other people say.

GFahim

This is the strangest thing i heard today. Were saying God is not merciful because there are poor people around the world.

[QUOTE="GFahim"]

if u think God isn't all Forgiving or Merciful, ever wondered why u haven't faced hardships such as those poor people around the world who are starving to death. instead, u shud be thankful to Him that he didn't put u in this position!

besides, not tryin to offend u man but if u seriously dnt have faith in Allah, dnt be a Muslim. better instead, do a bit of research about the religion instead of just listening to what other people say.

armen925

This is the strangest thing i heard today. Were saying God is not merciful because there are poor people around the world.

i was saying this to the OP coz apparently he is complaining that he finds God not being Merciful or Forgiving while there are other people who are in such a worse state than him.

i dnt wanna know go too much into details but for those who are at such a state, its because God is testing them. actually, God is testing the OP but he hasnt got any faith it looks like...

[QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"][QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="Hitman_887"]

I am a Muslim and I always read in the Quran that God is the Most merciful,Most forgiving,Most loving.My parents tell me that God loves you 10 times more than your own mother:? .It's a saying of Prophet Muhammad.

How is it then that I have to go through so many difficulties in my life?My mother would never even want the slightest pain to come in my life if it was under her control.How is God Most forgiving when so many people will apparantely go to Hell?How is God Most caring when life is so unfair?Some people are born downright ugly with no way around it,some people are born with not enough money to feed themselves.

RazMaTaz-1

I used to be a muslim and i pondered the very same questions you did. The religion was so ingrained in me that i couldn't believe for one second that it could be false. I think its a poison but its also a source of hope but ultimately its a lie. I will tell you this if God is good, then he will never send anyone to hell. Dont let anyone trick you into answering your questions with false logic. They tell you God is testing you or God sends people to hell because he is just. You only need to look inside your heart to answer these questions.

So if a person disbelieves god, hates god, blames god for things that didnt even do, God wont punish him/her? Wow, you are delusional lol

My friend you are delusional not me. If a person disbelieves in you, hates you, blames you for things that you didn't do, you won't punish him/her?

I know you would put them in hell yes? Imagine, you living in heaven and your mother is in hell, because she sinned her whole life. This is the reality of the situation but you just dont understand.

and how is that any different from this life? People disobey they mothers, hell, u got teenage daughters foning police simply because their mother slapped em once just for a little disapline and self control. If we are in heaven, dont you think god will allow us to give us any wish taht we like? I assume so, so if you wish that you wanna be with your family, dont you think God will aprove? I think he would :|

This is where you are picking and choosing. You are trying to create logic within a book that is illogical. No, Allah will not give you any wish you need. If everyone wished for everyone to get out of hell you think Allah will grant this wish? Thats not what it says in the Quran and it will go against Allah's orders. If that was the case then nobody would be in hell.

This is the reality of the Quran. If your mother has sinned her whole life and did not believe in Allah she goes to hell.

[QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="GFahim"]

if u think God isn't all Forgiving or Merciful, ever wondered why u haven't faced hardships such as those poor people around the world who are starving to death. instead, u shud be thankful to Him that he didn't put u in this position!

besides, not tryin to offend u man but if u seriously dnt have faith in Allah, dnt be a Muslim. better instead, do a bit of research about the religion instead of just listening to what other people say.

GFahim

This is the strangest thing i heard today. Were saying God is not merciful because there are poor people around the world.

i was saying this to the OP coz apparently he is complaining that he finds God not being Merciful or Forgiving while there are other people who are in such a worse state than him.

i dnt wanna know go too much into details but for those who are at such a state, its because God is testing them. actually, God is testing the OP but he hasnt got any faith it looks like...

:lol: haha that was really funny. But what about those who starve to death that is no test that would make Allah cruel.

[QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"][QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"][QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="Hitman_887"]

I am a Muslim and I always read in the Quran that God is the Most merciful,Most forgiving,Most loving.My parents tell me that God loves you 10 times more than your own mother:? .It's a saying of Prophet Muhammad.

How is it then that I have to go through so many difficulties in my life?My mother would never even want the slightest pain to come in my life if it was under her control.How is God Most forgiving when so many people will apparantely go to Hell?How is God Most caring when life is so unfair?Some people are born downright ugly with no way around it,some people are born with not enough money to feed themselves.

armen925

I used to be a muslim and i pondered the very same questions you did. The religion was so ingrained in me that i couldn't believe for one second that it could be false. I think its a poison but its also a source of hope but ultimately its a lie. I will tell you this if God is good, then he will never send anyone to hell. Dont let anyone trick you into answering your questions with false logic. They tell you God is testing you or God sends people to hell because he is just. You only need to look inside your heart to answer these questions.

So if a person disbelieves god, hates god, blames god for things that didnt even do, God wont punish him/her? Wow, you are delusional lol

My friend you are delusional not me. If a person disbelieves in you, hates you, blames you for things that you didn't do, you won't punish him/her?

I know you would put them in hell yes? Imagine, you living in heaven and your mother is in hell, because she sinned her whole life. This is the reality of the situation but you just dont understand.

and how is that any different from this life? People disobey they mothers, hell, u got teenage daughters foning police simply because their mother slapped em once just for a little disapline and self control. If we are in heaven, dont you think god will allow us to give us any wish taht we like? I assume so, so if you wish that you wanna be with your family, dont you think God will aprove? I think he would :|

This is where you are picking and choosing. You are trying to create logic within a book that is illogical. No, Allah will not give you any wish you need. If everyone wished for everyone to get out of hell you think Allah will grant this wish? Thats not what it says in the Quran and it will go against Allah's orders. If that was the case then nobody would be in hell.

This is the reality of the Quran. If your mother has sinned her whole life and did not believe in Allah she goes to hell.

but if she repents even though she has committed an earth full of sins, Allah will shower her with an earth full of Forgiveness. thats why He is the Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[QUOTE="GFahim"][QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="GFahim"]

if u think God isn't all Forgiving or Merciful, ever wondered why u haven't faced hardships such as those poor people around the world who are starving to death. instead, u shud be thankful to Him that he didn't put u in this position!

besides, not tryin to offend u man but if u seriously dnt have faith in Allah, dnt be a Muslim. better instead, do a bit of research about the religion instead of just listening to what other people say.

armen925

This is the strangest thing i heard today. Were saying God is not merciful because there are poor people around the world.

i was saying this to the OP coz apparently he is complaining that he finds God not being Merciful or Forgiving while there are other people who are in such a worse state than him.

i dnt wanna know go too much into details but for those who are at such a state, its because God is testing them. actually, God is testing the OP but he hasnt got any faith it looks like...

:lol: haha that was really funny. But what about those who starve to death that is no test that would make Allah cruel.

again, i dnt wannna go into detail too much in this interweb which will be useless anyway but just to let u know, those who are starving to death, had no help, no opportunity for education, dnt or havent heard of Islam etc, then who knows, (Allah knows) that they may be granted to paradise. thats all im gonna say rite now coz going further on is another topic and i just cnt be bothered.

Oh, yes, why doesn't God lock us all up in safe little white rooms? Then, when we die, we'll go having learned absolutely nothing.

Simple, he isn't! Because he doesn't exist!JJ4545

Amen to that lmao

I am a Muslim and I always read in the Quran that God is the Most merciful,Most forgiving,Most loving.My parents tell me that God loves you 10 times more than your own mother:? .It's a saying of Prophet Muhammad.

How is it then that I have to go through so many difficulties in my life?My mother would never even want the slightest pain to come in my life if it was under her control.How is God Most forgiving when so many people will apparantely go to Hell?How is God Most caring when life is so unfair?Some people are born downright ugly with no way around it,some people are born with not enough money to feed themselves.

Hitman_887

Easy, God is an illusion. The Quran was composed to cater to those in charge. Modern Islam is currently in the stages Christianity was during the Inquisition and the Crusades(It's barbaric and evil), and used for political power and control. I'm sure Muhammad was a good guy and wanted us to get along peacefully, as Jesus probably was, but their teachings have been twisted to create dynasties of evil. Ironic. Open your mind, man.

http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/

[QUOTE="Hitman_887"]

I am a Muslim and I always read in the Quran that God is the Most merciful,Most forgiving,Most loving.My parents tell me that God loves you 10 times more than your own mother:? .It's a saying of Prophet Muhammad.

How is it then that I have to go through so many difficulties in my life?My mother would never even want the slightest pain to come in my life if it was under her control.How is God Most forgiving when so many people will apparantely go to Hell?How is God Most caring when life is so unfair?Some people are born downright ugly with no way around it,some people are born with not enough money to feed themselves.

lostprodigy3141

Easy, God is an illusion. The Quran was composed and edited to cater to those in charge. Modern Islam is currently in the stages Christianity was during the Inquisition and the Crusades(It's barbaric and evil), and used for political power and control. I'm sure Muhammad was a good guy and wanted us to get along peacefully, as Jesus probably was, but their teachings have been twisted to create dynasties of evil. Ironic. Open your mind, man.

http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/

[QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"][QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"][QUOTE="armen925"][QUOTE="Hitman_887"]

I am a Muslim and I always read in the Quran that God is the Most merciful,Most forgiving,Most loving.My parents tell me that God loves you 10 times more than your own mother:? .It's a saying of Prophet Muhammad.

How is it then that I have to go through so many difficulties in my life?My mother would never even want the slightest pain to come in my life if it was under her control.How is God Most forgiving when so many people will apparantely go to Hell?How is God Most caring when life is so unfair?Some people are born downright ugly with no way around it,some people are born with not enough money to feed themselves.

armen925

I used to be a muslim and i pondered the very same questions you did. The religion was so ingrained in me that i couldn't believe for one second that it could be false. I think its a poison but its also a source of hope but ultimately its a lie. I will tell you this if God is good, then he will never send anyone to hell. Dont let anyone trick you into answering your questions with false logic. They tell you God is testing you or God sends people to hell because he is just. You only need to look inside your heart to answer these questions.

So if a person disbelieves god, hates god, blames god for things that didnt even do, God wont punish him/her? Wow, you are delusional lol

My friend you are delusional not me. If a person disbelieves in you, hates you, blames you for things that you didn't do, you won't punish him/her?

I know you would put them in hell yes? Imagine, you living in heaven and your mother is in hell, because she sinned her whole life. This is the reality of the situation but you just dont understand.

and how is that any different from this life? People disobey they mothers, hell, u got teenage daughters foning police simply because their mother slapped em once just for a little disapline and self control. If we are in heaven, dont you think god will allow us to give us any wish taht we like? I assume so, so if you wish that you wanna be with your family, dont you think God will aprove? I think he would :|

This is where you are picking and choosing. You are trying to create logic within a book that is illogical. No, Allah will not give you any wish you need. If everyone wished for everyone to get out of hell you think Allah will grant this wish? Thats not what it says in the Quran and it will go against Allah's orders. If that was the case then nobody would be in hell.

This is the reality of the Quran. If your mother has sinned her whole life and did not believe in Allah she goes to hell.

one guys oppinion doesnt make it a reality. I rather be safe and become a good muslim, then become an atheist and believe there is no god because what happens one day the events of the Quran become a reality? You are gonna be sitting there thinking "oh crap". If you are really that deluded that you gonna blame God for your faults in life, then you are really stuck up, sorry to say. You dont understand that everyone will be sinful on the day of judgement unless they died at Hajj. So they will get punished in the grave, on day of judgment, and/or in hell. If a mother was a sinner, one can only imagine how bad her son is like or daughter, i mean look at majority of the rap stars and how they were bought up? you think they mothers were religious and what not? hell no, god knows how they were. Why do you think Islam has become the most popular religion in terms of conversion and popularity? So they can become terrorists? no. To cease comfort? maybe. Even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral. If we just born,live, and die, what purpose is there to life? Just to have FUN? have education, have sex, have kids, and die? no, life aint about taht. You might aswell Sin your buts off it that was the case :P

one guys oppinion doesnt make it a reality. I rather be safe and become a good muslim, then become an atheist and believe there is no god because what happens one day the events of the Quran become a reality? You are gonna be sitting there thinking "oh crap". If you are really that deluded that you gonna blame God for your faults in life, then you are really stuck up, sorry to say. You dont understand that everyone will be sinful on the day of judgement unless they died at Hajj. So they will get punished in the grave, on day of judgment, and/or in hell. If a mother was a sinner, one can only imagine how bad her son is like or daughter, i mean look at majority of the rap stars and how they were bought up? you think they mothers were religious and what not? hell no, god knows how they were. Why do you think Islam has become the most popular religion in terms of conversion and popularity? So they can become terrorists? no. To cease comfort? maybe. Even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral. If we just born,live, and die, what purpose is there to life? Just to have FUN? have education, have sex, have kids, and die? no, life aint about taht. You might aswell Sin your buts off it that was the case :P

RazMaTaz-1

Perfect example of the mind of someone who's been brainwashed.

[QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"]

one guys oppinion doesnt make it a reality. I rather be safe and become a good muslim, then become an atheist and believe there is no god because what happens one day the events of the Quran become a reality? You are gonna be sitting there thinking "oh crap". If you are really that deluded that you gonna blame God for your faults in life, then you are really stuck up, sorry to say. You dont understand that everyone will be sinful on the day of judgement unless they died at Hajj. So they will get punished in the grave, on day of judgment, and/or in hell. If a mother was a sinner, one can only imagine how bad her son is like or daughter, i mean look at majority of the rap stars and how they were bought up? you think they mothers were religious and what not? hell no, god knows how they were. Why do you think Islam has become the most popular religion in terms of conversion and popularity? So they can become terrorists? no. To cease comfort? maybe. Even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral. If we just born,live, and die, what purpose is there to life? Just to have FUN? have education, have sex, have kids, and die? no, life aint about taht. You might aswell Sin your buts off it that was the case :P

lostprodigy3141

Perfect example of the mind of someone who's been brainwashed.

[QUOTE="lostprodigy3141"]

[QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"]

one guys oppinion doesnt make it a reality. I rather be safe and become a good muslim, then become an atheist and believe there is no god because what happens one day the events of the Quran become a reality? You are gonna be sitting there thinking "oh crap". If you are really that deluded that you gonna blame God for your faults in life, then you are really stuck up, sorry to say. You dont understand that everyone will be sinful on the day of judgement unless they died at Hajj. So they will get punished in the grave, on day of judgment, and/or in hell. If a mother was a sinner, one can only imagine how bad her son is like or daughter, i mean look at majority of the rap stars and how they were bought up? you think they mothers were religious and what not? hell no, god knows how they were. Why do you think Islam has become the most popular religion in terms of conversion and popularity? So they can become terrorists? no. To cease comfort? maybe. Even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral. If we just born,live, and die, what purpose is there to life? Just to have FUN? have education, have sex, have kids, and die? no, life aint about taht. You might aswell Sin your buts off it that was the case :P

A_Tarkovsky

Perfect example of the mind of someone who's been brainwashed.

Is it really not obvious I wasn't trying to? and "evidence" criticism made me lol, guess you didn't read his post... ;)

[QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"]

one guys oppinion doesnt make it a reality. I rather be safe and become a good muslim, then become an atheist and believe there is no god because what happens one day the events of the Quran become a reality? You are gonna be sitting there thinking "oh crap". If you are really that deluded that you gonna blame God for your faults in life, then you are really stuck up, sorry to say. You dont understand that everyone will be sinful on the day of judgement unless they died at Hajj. So they will get punished in the grave, on day of judgment, and/or in hell. If a mother was a sinner, one can only imagine how bad her son is like or daughter, i mean look at majority of the rap stars and how they were bought up? you think they mothers were religious and what not? hell no, god knows how they were. Why do you think Islam has become the most popular religion in terms of conversion and popularity? So they can become terrorists? no. To cease comfort? maybe. Even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral. If we just born,live, and die, what purpose is there to life? Just to have FUN? have education, have sex, have kids, and die? no, life aint about taht. You might aswell Sin your buts off it that was the case :P

lostprodigy3141

Perfect example of the mind of someone who's been brainwashed.

perfect example of the one who just simply can't handle the truth. i mean, what that guy said is logical. what have u got to back urself and just call him 'brainwashed'?. looks like u got brainwashed by the media!

How is God Most forgiving when so many people will apparantely go to Hell?How is God Most caring when life is so unfair?

Hitman_887

well no, you just have to come unto them-

one guys oppinion doesnt make it a reality. I rather be safe and become a good muslim, then become an atheist and believe there is no god because what happens one day the events of the Quran become a reality? You are gonna be sitting there thinking "oh crap". If you are really that deluded that you gonna blame God for your faults in life, then you are really stuck up, sorry to say. You dont understand that everyone will be sinful on the day of judgement unless they died at Hajj. So they will get punished in the grave, on day of judgment, and/or in hell. If a mother was a sinner, one can only imagine how bad her son is like or daughter, i mean look at majority of the rap stars and how they were bought up? you think they mothers were religious and what not? hell no, god knows how they were. Why do you think Islam has become the most popular religion in terms of conversion and popularity? So they can become terrorists? no. To cease comfort? maybe. Even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral. If we just born,live, and die, what purpose is there to life? Just to have FUN? have education, have sex, have kids, and die? no, life aint about taht. You might aswell Sin your buts off it that was the case :P

RazMaTaz-1

If you would rather "play it safe" and be a muslim, then you do believe in the quran, and you believe because of fear of punishment, not because you want to do good. In your mind, people do good and don't "sin their buts off" because they know they're going to get in trouble if they do evil things. That's a very selfish outlook on things. A person who is truly good is so because they want to do good to others and want to do what they believe is right, not because they're trying to save their own asses. Just because someone is an atheist does not mean that they are evil and just live "to have fun". Every rational being has a sense of morale, we have a basic idea of what is right and wrong. The quran is a book, writting by human beings like you and I.It was not some magical text written by the divine being Muhammed or sent from the heavens, it was put together long after he died. You are the perfect example of someone who is brainwashed, because you remain a follower of the "religion" because you are afraid if you don't, you will go to hell, but if you do, you will be rewarded and go to heaven..You say "even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral". You need to realize that we all have a sense of right and wrong, they people who wrote up the quran are not the only ones who can figure it out.Islam is trying to become the new Christianity, and this is how they establish themselves and dominate countries:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8789NMWZ9EITo quote a relatively wise guy,"If people are good only because theyfearpunishment, and hope for reward, then we are asorry lot indeed."- Albert Einstein.

Oh, yes, why doesn't God lock us all up in safe little white rooms? Then, when we die, we'll go having learned absolutely nothing.

A_Tarkovsky

And then we can pester God for all of eternity.

Heeey, I don't think anyone noticed my reply! Here we go: I may not be able to answer well, I'm just 15 so I don't really know myself, but I'll try. God loves us, hence he gave us the opportunity of life. Life is unfair and terrible at times, but we must strive to see these problems as tests or ways to improve. To be selfless, and focus less on material pleasures in life. Many people grieve over how they are "ugly", or have some physical imperfection. Shouldn't we strive for an everlasting beauty, opposing to a beauty that must die? God cares for us to give us the opportunities we have in life. Why should this material life ever be so fair? Why does it really matter how many millions of dollars one has? Are you going to take this money with you when you die? People are not born with money, they must use their free will and intellect. Human beings were the only creatures with the power of intellect. We can make our own choices for ourselves and become educated to a high degree and so on. If a person does not show love for others, help others, etc, that would be like living the life of an animal. For example, a horse left in the wild will only try to survive, eat, sleep, and reproduce. but with a human riding the horse, the human can use the power of intellect and teach the horse to do great things. We have the power of free will, and we must use it to help the world, help the hungry, and so on. In this way, humanity will learn how to be civilized and loving to one another. You do not go to hell, "Hell" is used as a word to describe your closeness to God. We will not suffer in the next world, it is out of the human mind's reach to comprehend it. Nobody will go to "hell", it is just an example in my opinion. There is not a devil with horns and such. When one is about to die, they think of all the good things that have passed them. There can't be suffering in a non materialistic world, we will not be as "people" with bodies and faces and such. God's love is at such a high degree, it is hard to explain. A mother, or any human being, can show each other powerful love. But this love is more to a degree of this material world, such as if you have a companion or a person to take care of you and feed you. A quote I like is "Love me that I may love thee. If you lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee." As in we must strive day by day to be kind for one another, and in this, we are becoming happier people. Even though there will be times of struggle, we have to be so selfless to not be so stressed over the materialistic issues in life. I don't know if I explained this well, even I'm learning day by day.

[QUOTE="lostprodigy3141"][QUOTE="Hitman_887"]

I am a Muslim and I always read in the Quran that God is the Most merciful,Most forgiving,Most loving.My parents tell me that God loves you 10 times more than your own mother:? .It's a saying of Prophet Muhammad.

How is it then that I have to go through so many difficulties in my life?My mother would never even want the slightest pain to come in my life if it was under her control.How is God Most forgiving when so many people will apparantely go to Hell?How is God Most caring when life is so unfair?Some people are born downright ugly with no way around it,some people are born with not enough money to feed themselves.

A_Tarkovsky

Easy, God is an illusion. The Quran was composed and edited to cater to those in charge. Modern Islam is currently in the stages Christianity was during the Inquisition and the Crusades(It's barbaric and evil), and used for political power and control. I'm sure Muhammad was a good guy and wanted us to get along peacefully, as Jesus probably was, but their teachings have been twisted to create dynasties of evil. Ironic. Open your mind, man.

http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/

Please get educated in modern politics, man...

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I used the idea of an omnipotent being as a premise in my argument. It is linked logically to the argument's conclusion. It's not irrelevant.

:roll: Just don't. You know Adam and Eve were humans. I know Adam and Eve were humans. Don't even bother going down that route.

LJS9502_basic

They were not humans as humans are now...no. Since the suffering was absent.

That's the point. If it's impossible, then God cannot cause there to be God without evil.

It's not about whether they were humans 'as we know them', it's about whether they were human full stop, and they were.

"They were not humans as humans are now" :lol:

Oh my, the lengths some people will go to, to box themselves away from the uncomfortable truth. I wonder if he can explain the differences. :roll:

EDIT: And of course I'm talking about after they had their perfection stripped away. Just in case you were going to try that "they were perfect" route.

Topics like this need to go away. All you get is a bunch of smart-a** responses from people who dont even have their sh** together. If you want answers, this is not the place..Elann2008

Is this one of them? No, of course not. :roll:

:lol:

"They were not humans as humans are now" :lol:

Oh my, the lengths some people will go to, to box themselves away from the uncomfortable truth. I wonder if he can explain the differences. :roll:

EDIT: And of course I'm talking about after they had their perfection stripped away. Just in case you were going to try that "they were perfect" route.

Persecuted_1

*waits for "they weren't perfect"*

"God" was made up for people who do not know where else to turn when it comes to something.

They cant explain something, so they say its because God made it so.

Something bad happens, God did it for a reason.

People do not want to believe that bad things happen for no reason and believe that things always have a reason.

There is no reason to believe in God, only faith.

The universe is amoral - Tragedy and suffering happen to innocents - it has done for millenia.

Please keep asking questions of all religions - but don't expect any rational answers from them.

There is no reason to believe in God, only faith.

The universe is amoral - Tragedy and suffering happen to innocents - it has done for millenia.

Please keep asking questions of all religions - but don't expect any rational answers from them.

diz360

From a naturalistic philosophy of life it may not seem rational but as if one believes the supernatural to be possible, faith can be rational. How one determines if something is rational is by presumptions on how you already see the world. I've got a question for you. If Christianity were proven to be true rationally would you follow it?

"God" was made up for people who do not know where else to turn when it comes to something.

They cant explain something, so they say its because God made it so.

Something bad happens, God did it for a reason.

People do not want to believe that bad things happen for no reason and believe that things always have a reason.

SouL-Tak3R

I can't say I understand that way of understanding the 'origin of religion.' If God is not real then by what standard are you determining if the bad things that are happening are actually bad? The moral conscience within you? Where do you believe that comes from.

[QUOTE="SouL-Tak3R"]

"God" was made up for people who do not know where else to turn when it comes to something.

They cant explain something, so they say its because God made it so.

Something bad happens, God did it for a reason.

People do not want to believe that bad things happen for no reason and believe that things always have a reason.

mindstorm

I can't say I understand that way of understanding the 'origin of religion.' If God is not real then by what standard are you determining if the bad things that are happening are actually bad? The moral conscience within you? Where do you believe that comes from.

The developement of the brain, from which a so called " conscience " was born. Morality is also formed by how a person is brought up, also through the developement of the brain.

[QUOTE="diz360"]

There is no reason to believe in God, only faith.

The universe is amoral - Tragedy and suffering happen to innocents - it has done for millenia.

Please keep asking questions of all religions - but don't expect any rational answers from them.

mindstorm

From a naturalistic philosophy of life it may not seem rational but as if one believes the supernatural to be possible, faith can be rational. How one determines if something is rational is by presumptions on how you already see the world. I've got a question for you. If Christianity were proven to be true rationally would you follow it?

The supernatural is not possible in a natural universe. If a God (of Christianity, or of Islam, or of any other religion, or even as a non-interventionist deity) were proven to be true, then of course I would believe it.

The rational view of the world is not subjective - it is based purely on logical deduction in objective reality.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="diz360"]

There is no reason to believe in God, only faith.

The universe is amoral - Tragedy and suffering happen to innocents - it has done for millenia.

Please keep asking questions of all religions - but don't expect any rational answers from them.

diz360

From a naturalistic philosophy of life it may not seem rational but as if one believes the supernatural to be possible, faith can be rational. How one determines if something is rational is by presumptions on how you already see the world. I've got a question for you. If Christianity were proven to be true rationally would you follow it?

The supernatural is not possible in a natural universe. If a God (of Christianity, or of Islam, or of any other religion, or even as a non-interventionist deity) were proven to be true, then of course I would believe it.

The rational view of the world is not subjective - it is based purely on logical deduction in objective reality.

I find it interesting when people often say to a religious person to become more open-minded when many atheists are closed-minded to something being unexplainable.

Btw, it's not possible to disprove God unless you have set presumptions beforehand which can easily be wrong or you are all knowing. Even hardcore atheists like Richard Dawkins acknowledge the possibility of a God in being partially agnostic.

[QUOTE="diz360"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="diz360"]

There is no reason to believe in God, only faith.

The universe is amoral - Tragedy and suffering happen to innocents - it has done for millenia.

Please keep asking questions of all religions - but don't expect any rational answers from them.

mindstorm

From a naturalistic philosophy of life it may not seem rational but as if one believes the supernatural to be possible, faith can be rational. How one determines if something is rational is by presumptions on how you already see the world. I've got a question for you. If Christianity were proven to be true rationally would you follow it?

The supernatural is not possible in a natural universe. If a God (of Christianity, or of Islam, or of any other religion, or even as a non-interventionist deity) were proven to be true, then of course I would believe it.

The rational view of the world is not subjective - it is based purely on logical deduction in objective reality.

I find it interesting when people often say to a religious person to become more open-minded when many atheists are closed-minded to something being unexplainable.

Btw, it's not possible to disprove God unless you have set presumptions beforehand which can easily be wrong or you are all knowing. Even hardcore atheists like Richard Dawkins acknowledge the possibility of a God in being partially agnostic.

Russell's teapot

[QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"]

one guys oppinion doesnt make it a reality. I rather be safe and become a good muslim, then become an atheist and believe there is no god because what happens one day the events of the Quran become a reality? You are gonna be sitting there thinking "oh crap". If you are really that deluded that you gonna blame God for your faults in life, then you are really stuck up, sorry to say. You dont understand that everyone will be sinful on the day of judgement unless they died at Hajj. So they will get punished in the grave, on day of judgment, and/or in hell. If a mother was a sinner, one can only imagine how bad her son is like or daughter, i mean look at majority of the rap stars and how they were bought up? you think they mothers were religious and what not? hell no, god knows how they were. Why do you think Islam has become the most popular religion in terms of conversion and popularity? So they can become terrorists? no. To cease comfort? maybe. Even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral. If we just born,live, and die, what purpose is there to life? Just to have FUN? have education, have sex, have kids, and die? no, life aint about taht. You might aswell Sin your buts off it that was the case :P

lostprodigy3141

If you would rather "play it safe" and be a muslim, then you do believe in the quran, and you believe because of fear of punishment, not because you want to do good. In your mind, people do good and don't "sin their buts off" because they know they're going to get in trouble if they do evil things. That's a very selfish outlook on things. A person who is truly good is so because they want to do good to others and want to do what they believe is right, not because they're trying to save their own asses. Just because someone is an atheist does not mean that they are evil and just live "to have fun". Every rational being has a sense of morale, we have a basic idea of what is right and wrong. The quran is a book, writting by human beings like you and I.It was not some magical text written by the divine being Muhammed or sent from the heavens, it was put together long after he died. You are the perfect example of someone who is brainwashed, because you remain a follower of the "religion" because you are afraid if you don't, you will go to hell, but if you do, you will be rewarded and go to heaven..You say "even if hypathetically there was no god, atleast they lived a life where there was moral". You need to realize that we all have a sense of right and wrong, they people who wrote up the quran are not the only ones who can figure it out.Islam is trying to become the new Christianity, and this is how they establish themselves and dominate countries:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8789NMWZ9EITo quote a relatively wise guy,"If people are good only because theyfearpunishment, and hope for reward, then we are asorry lot indeed."- Albert Einstein.

A follower of religion, you make it sound like a bad thing. If you think every religious person has been brainwashed by religion, then you seriously need to take a good look in the mirror as you are trying your upmost best to believe their isnt a God. If one beleives in God and all of a sudden when they die they aint a God, what have they got to lose out on? Nothing. If there was a God and all athiest were trying their upmost best to convince others there isnt a God, you are the ones that gonna be looking like total fools at the end of the day.

You really think i am gonna take advice from a well known scientist? Might aswell believe in the Darwin Theory aswell :lol: . Scientists try to provide info to debunk God, but failed miserably. We are in 2008 and yet there is no factual explanation of Big Bang. oo particals colided and bam, we manage to get a whole solar system that orbits in a perfect fashion :| Athiests take Science as their alternative explanation to how our world came about, so, you people are equally as deluded as those who believe in religion then. Even if we want to follow the religious books, what the hell is it to Atheists at the end of the day? If we want to live a moral life, then so be it.

I dont understand, Prophet Muhammad went through far more difficulties than you and you are questioning if God is most forgiving? Life is a test, it consists of difficulties, and there are people half way across the world who are far worse difficulties then many of us in the forum. At end of the day, why should god pay attention to some likes of anyone around here as they deny or question their faith, or hell, dont nothing to spread the word of their faith?

Seems logical to me :|

RazMaTaz-1

if u think God isn't all Forgiving or Merciful, ever wondered why u haven't faced hardships such as those poor people around the world who are starving to death. instead, u shud be thankful to Him that he didn't put u in this position!

GFahim

And according to Islam God loves all of mankind including those poor people you are refering to.So you mean God doesnt love them as much as he loves me?God doesnt love me as much as my best friend who is naturally extremely attractive to the opposte sex while I am not?

We are talking about fairness here.My friends test in the girls department is much much easier than mine.He can easily marry a really pretty lady and then just resist all the other women showing interest.

[QUOTE="RazMaTaz-1"]

I dont understand, Prophet Muhammad went through far more difficulties than you and you are questioning if God is most forgiving? Life is a test, it consists of difficulties, and there are people half way across the world who are far worse difficulties then many of us in the forum. At end of the day, why should god pay attention to some likes of anyone around here as they deny or question their faith, or hell, dont nothing to spread the word of their faith?

Seems logical to me :|

Hitman_887

Your point being? No one lives life as smooth as silk, their will be problems along the way. At the end of the day, muslims look at Prophet Muhammed as a Role model who also struggled more than everyone here, but that didnt make him lose focus of his religion in any sense, infact, it inspired him to strive more towards his religion. If people want to blame God for their life, then they are idiotic since they have the ability to correct the mishaps in life or work upon it. A person must be well spoilt if they want God to sort their lives out for them, same way a spoilt person relies completely on their parents wealth and knowledge, and then blaming them when its time to become independant . There are people half way across the world in far worse situations and we got people here who curse God over the most petty things in modern society. Everyone goes through difficulty many times in life, its a fact. If blaming God is a persons answer for having mishaps in life, then that person is a complete idiot.

Rapstar Nepolian, a part of outlawz, read up on his life story, and how bad it was. At the end of it all, end of his music career, he turned to Islam. Muhammad Ali turned to Islam, but now hes suffering from parkison disease, i guess he should blame god for that according some peoples mentality on this thread no? :|

[QUOTE="diz360"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="diz360"]

There is no reason to believe in God, only faith.

The universe is amoral - Tragedy and suffering happen to innocents - it has done for millenia.

Please keep asking questions of all religions - but don't expect any rational answers from them.

mindstorm

From a naturalistic philosophy of life it may not seem rational but as if one believes the supernatural to be possible, faith can be rational. How one determines if something is rational is by presumptions on how you already see the world. I've got a question for you. If Christianity were proven to be true rationally would you follow it?

The supernatural is not possible in a natural universe. If a God (of Christianity, or of Islam, or of any other religion, or even as a non-interventionist deity) were proven to be true, then of course I would believe it.

The rational view of the world is not subjective - it is based purely on logical deduction in objective reality.

I find it interesting when people often say to a religious person to become more open-minded when many atheists are closed-minded to something being unexplainable.

Btw, it's not possible to disprove God unless you have set presumptions beforehand which can easily be wrong or you are all knowing. Even hardcore atheists like Richard Dawkins acknowledge the possibility of a God in being partially agnostic.

Are you saying that a scientific outlook is not open-minded?

I know that disproof is not logically possible. The scientific method relies only on positive proof.

Many atheists, like myself, are agnostic. The British Humanist Association classifies atheism as such an agnostic belief. Gnosticism is to do with knowledge.

Anyone who claims to "know for sure" is deluding themselves, and perhaps others, into a blinkered approach to belief.

With regards specifically to modern Christian beliefs, I have enough evidence to personally discount them. This is based on my realistic world-view, where "supernatural miracles" either don't happen, or can be explained by natural rational means.