Hypothetical situation: God doesnt exist...

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] Since when did Jesus say that?mindstorm

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] Since when did Jesus say that?mindstorm

If what you say was the case, then God would say nothing of the like and refer only to their fate after death. But he didnt.

EDIT: And like Llama said....

"Oh wow :/"

It is never ethical to kill someone for your or another person's gain. If someone did go back in time and kill Jesus, Christianity would just be replaced with another religion. Probably a religion of one of Jesus' contemporaries and fellow messiah claimants.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"] That was indeed the rightful punishment but due to our own sinfulness, we are unable to carry out that sentence. In John 8:7 Jesus said, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone."Funky_Llama

As Romans 6:26 states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

I did not mean anything beyond that.

Don't take that statement farther than I meant, I deserve death too. :wink: As Romans 6:26 states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."mindstorm

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][ ...in what sense may scientists be just as deluded?Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Don't take that statement farther than I meant, I deserve death too. :wink: As Romans 6:26 states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Don't take that statement farther than I meant, I deserve death too. :wink: As Romans 6:26 states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."mindstorm

I edited out a part of your post I dont even want to comment on.

That's sounds...better?II-FBIsniper-II

You are expecting reason from someone who is clearly fanatical?

[QUOTE="II-FBIsniper-II"]That's sounds...better?AnnoyedDragon

You are expecting reason from someone who is clearly fanatical?

No I wouldn't change anything in history. However if I found otu God didn;t exist I would let it be known in the present so more people could bring their knowledge to assisting the naturalists find otu exactly what is the nature of existence.

Hmm... apparently I now use no logic because I believe all sex outside of heterosexual marriage is sinful. o.0mindstorm

Logic, belief and sin in the same sentence and you don't see the problem? Yep your a drone. Sad thing is I'd likely get moderated for calling you a religious person a drone; while you saying homosexuals deserve to die would be ignored out of "respect" for people's religious beliefs.

It is ok to be a bigot as long as you are backed by the scripture of a suitably large belief system.

That's sounds...better?II-FBIsniper-II

You are expecting reason from someone who is clearly fanatical?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Hmm... apparently I now use no logic because I believe all sex outside of heterosexual marriage is sinful. o.0AnnoyedDragon

Logic, belief and sin in the same sentence and you don't see the problem? Yep your a drone. Sad thing is I'd likely get moderated for calling you a religious person a drone; while you saying homosexuals deserve to die would be ignored out of "respect" for people's religious beliefs.

It is ok to be a bigot as long as you are backed by the scripture of a suitably large belief system.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Hmm... apparently I now use no logic because I believe all sex outside of heterosexual marriage is sinful. o.0AnnoyedDragon

Logic, belief and sin in the same sentence and you don't see the problem? Yep your a drone. Sad thing is I'd likely get moderated for calling you a religious person a drone; while you saying homosexuals deserve to die would be ignored out of "respect" for people's religious beliefs.

It is ok to be a bigot as long as you are backed by the scripture of a suitably large belief system.

You do realize you are a being a bigot?clayron

If being intolerant of religiously justified bigotry makes me a bigot then label me up.

You're damn right I disrespect his right to believe gays should die for an imaginary crime thought up by an imaginary being.

meh... Why is it that I can say God condemns lying without any backlash mindstorm

Not me, lying can be a good thing in the right context, so can stealing. You wouldn't tell a Nazi there are Jews in your basement to avoid lying, you wouldn't condemn the starving and poor from stealing from the corrupt and fat.

Real life isn't black and white.

[QUOTE="clayron"]You do realize you are a being a bigot?AnnoyedDragon

If being intolerant of religiously justified bigotry makes me a bigot then label me up.

You're damn right I disrespect his right to believe gays should die for an imaginary crime thought up by an imaginary being.

[QUOTE="clayron"]You do realize you are a being a bigot?AnnoyedDragon

If being intolerant of religiously justified bigotry makes me a bigot then label me up.

You're damn right I disrespect his right to believe gays should die for an imaginary crime thought up by an imaginary being.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Hmm... apparently I now use no logic because I believe all sex outside of heterosexual marriage is sinful. o.0mindstorm

Logic, belief and sin in the same sentence and you don't see the problem? Yep your a drone. Sad thing is I'd likely get moderated for calling you a religious person a drone; while you saying homosexuals deserve to die would be ignored out of "respect" for people's religious beliefs.

It is ok to be a bigot as long as you are backed by the scripture of a suitably large belief system.

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

Yes but the fact is, we are were we we are today because of Christianity for better or worse

Anonymous_2

:|

Please stop being ignorant, many important events *cough*crusades*cough* were caused by Christianity and religion in general, and some were affected by it in one way or another, hell one of the reason why the United States exists today was because Britians wanted religous freedom. :| If you were to just go and make Christianity non-existant, you would forever change the course of History, you as a person may not exist which would create a paradox. Time Travel isn't to be lightened with, if such a thing ever did exist, it would be more far dangerous than any virus, or bomb man could manufacture.

I think the answer would be that most people agree with you on lying being immoral >_>Funky_Llama

Did you think before you posted this?clayron

:lol: .... :|

No I wouldn't, not a good idea.

Science does not hope to engage itself in matters of metaphysical truth, and thus cannot be judge by those standards. What distinguishes religious delusion and scientfic delusion is that scientific delusion by definiton can only occur from a deception of the body, whereas religious deception or delusion, is one that is a deception, or flawed reasoning of the mind.MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]I think the answer would be that most people agree with you on lying being immoral >_>mindstorm

Its hard for many to wrap their minds around the idea that some others think there is something wrong with it.

And why its more important? Because they are basing their mindset (on this issue) on logic and you on a ...."god said so" belief system.

Although I understand your trouble trying to reconcile ideas in your mind (it happens to everyone whether it is something religious or not).

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]I think the answer would be that most people agree with you on lying being immoral >_>mindstorm

[QUOTE="Anonymous_2"]

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

Yes but the fact is, we are were we we are today because of Christianity for better or worse

DarkGamer007

:|

Please stop being ignorant, many important events *cough*crusades*cough* were caused by Christianity and religion in general, and some were affected by it in one way or another, hell one of the reason why the United States exists today was because Europeans wanted religous freedom. :| If you were to just go and make Christianity non-existant, you would forever change the course of History, you as a person may not exist which would create a paradox. Time Travel isn't to be lightened with, if such a thing ever did exist, it would be more far dangerous than any virus, or bomb man could manufacture.

Eliminate religion, and the same thing would have happened. People always find reasons to commit atrocities. Period.

If it is not religion, its land. If its not land, its power. If its not power, its pride. And the cycle will go on and on forever.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] Science does not hope to engage itself in matters of metaphysical truth, and thus cannot be judge by those standards. What distinguishes religious delusion and scientfic delusion is that scientific delusion by definiton can only occur from a deception of the body, whereas religious deception or delusion, is one that is a deception, or flawed reasoning of the mind.Vandalvideo

How can you condemn someone for bigotry when you yourself are guilty of it? If you have every right to be a bigot, why shouldn't he?clayron

People shouldn't be so tolerant that they respect intolerance, I'll gladly be labelled a bigot of people who think homosexuals deserve to die.

Even if there was no such thing as homosexuality we'd still all be sinful for other reasons. o.0mindstorm

Yeah, like you rejecting the hundreds of other Gods that say you will be punished for rejecting them.

Of course that isn't a problem for you because you known deep down in your heart "your" God is the one true God, really this time, all those others were fakes but you got it right this time.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] Science does not hope to engage itself in matters of metaphysical truth, and thus cannot be judge by those standards. What distinguishes religious delusion and scientfic delusion is that scientific delusion by definiton can only occur from a deception of the body, whereas religious deception or delusion, is one that is a deception, or flawed reasoning of the mind.hamstergeddon

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

[QUOTE="Anonymous_2"]

:|

clayron

Please stop being ignorant, many important events *cough*crusades*cough* were caused by Christianity and religion in general, and some were affected by it in one way or another, hell one of the reason why the United States exists today was because Europeans wanted religous freedom. :| If you were to just go and make Christianity non-existant, you would forever change the course of History, you as a person may not exist which would create a paradox. Time Travel isn't to be lightened with, if such a thing ever did exist, it would be more far dangerous than any virus, or bomb man could manufacture.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] Science does not hope to engage itself in matters of metaphysical truth, and thus cannot be judge by those standards. What distinguishes religious delusion and scientfic delusion is that scientific delusion by definiton can only occur from a deception of the body, whereas religious deception or delusion, is one that is a deception, or flawed reasoning of the mind.Vandalvideo

THE MATRIX. WE'RE ALL IN IT!

What, lying or homosexuality/homosexual acts?Funky_Llama

Yeah, like you rejecting the hundreds of other Gods that say you will be punished for rejecting them.

Of course that isn't a problem for you because you known deep down in your heart "your" God is the one true God, really this time, all those others were fakes but you got it right this time.

AnnoyedDragon

Understood, I suppose it's just hard to wrap my mind around that idea that many others think there is nothing wrong with it.mindstorm

not to interject, but there are actual chemical differences in the brain when it comes to homosexuality. Basically, women's and men's brains light up differently when it comes to attraction. Gay men's brains light up in the same areas as womens do. That alone makes it hard for me to agree with the Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin. That idea is one of the things I hate the most about Christianity, no offense...it just really bothers me.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] Science does not hope to engage itself in matters of metaphysical truth, and thus cannot be judge by those standards. What distinguishes religious delusion and scientfic delusion is that scientific delusion by definiton can only occur from a deception of the body, whereas religious deception or delusion, is one that is a deception, or flawed reasoning of the mind.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Understood, I suppose it's just hard to wrap my mind around that idea that many others think there is nothing wrong with it.Lindsosaurus

not to interject, but there are actual chemical differences in the brain when it comes to homosexuality. Basically, women's and men's brains light up differently when it comes to attraction. Gay men's brains light up in the same areas as womens do. That alone makes it hard for me to agree with the Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin. That idea is one of the things I hate the most about Christianity, no offense...it just really bothers me.

[QUOTE="clayron"]How can you condemn someone for bigotry when you yourself are guilty of it? If you have every right to be a bigot, why shouldn't he?AnnoyedDragon

People shouldn't be so tolerant that they respect intolerance, I'll gladly be labelled a bigot of people who think homosexuals deserve to die.

You have a very childish mentality.

You are not being tolerant at all. First, you insulted him for his beliefs. Then you condemned him for his beliefs. Then you stated your beliefs, in much the same way he stated his. But they way he did it is wrong. But the way you did it is right because he did it first?

I am not understanding that.

Your whole point is that what he believes is not okay, as they are based on the principles of a book written over two thousand years ago that cannot be verified. Nor can proof of God be presented by anyone who follows the same religious doctrines as mindstorm. That's fine.

You do not need to accept anyone else's beliefs, that's your right. But if you have a problem with the way someone presents their beliefs why would you ever purposely take up the mantle of bigot to prove a point? What does it solve? What ultimate goal is there for that?

I am sure there are far more reasonable ways to debate someone then to start bashing their belief system. Especially, if you have no knowledge of the religion. You could ask him to post the scripture that supports his beliefs in its entirety, then try to pick it apart and show weakness in it.

[QUOTE="clayron"]How can you condemn someone for bigotry when you yourself are guilty of it? If you have every right to be a bigot, why shouldn't he?AnnoyedDragon

People shouldn't be so tolerant that they respect intolerance, I'll gladly be labelled a bigot of people who think homosexuals deserve to die.

Even if there was no such thing as homosexuality we'd still all be sinful for other reasons. o.0mindstorm

Yeah, like you rejecting the hundreds of other Gods that say you will be punished for rejecting them.

Of course that isn't a problem for you because you known deep down in your heart "your" God is the one true God, really this time, all those others were fakes but you got it right this time.

Really nothing else to add to this, I agree with this man 100%. I laughed and celebrated when Falwell died. I will not tolerate intolerance in any of its forms. And when Fred Phelps dies, I'll do the same.

Homosexuality.mindstorm

regardless of if you are christian or not, murder is still wrong, no matter what.

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Understood, I suppose it's just hard to wrap my mind around that idea that many others think there is nothing wrong with it.mindstorm

not to interject, but there are actual chemical differences in the brain when it comes to homosexuality. Basically, women's and men's brains light up differently when it comes to attraction. Gay men's brains light up in the same areas as womens do. That alone makes it hard for me to agree with the Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin. That idea is one of the things I hate the most about Christianity, no offense...it just really bothers me.

The argument of "requirement" is absolutely void. I dont know how one can define requirement and how requirement has anything to do with allowance or desire.

Alcoholism is an unfortunate example. Alcoholism is an excessive state of something normal. Homosexuality is not an excessive state, but a "different" state which by the way can not be defined with certainty as worse or better. Maybe its neither.

Additionally, alcoholism has nothing to do with what one is as a person. Alcoholism is not a part of what someone is the same way homosexuality is.

Completely unfortunate example.

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

not to interject, but there are actual chemical differences in the brain when it comes to homosexuality. Basically, women's and men's brains light up differently when it comes to attraction. Gay men's brains light up in the same areas as womens do. That alone makes it hard for me to agree with the Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin. That idea is one of the things I hate the most about Christianity, no offense...it just really bothers me.

mindstorm

I dont see why they should have to deny themselves intimacy with someone they love. I just don't understand why or how homosexuality is wrong, but that's just me.