I hate how people think they need to go to college to get an "education&quo

I know someone who has ~ 20K in credit card debt. Credit card debt. You know, where the interest alone would be considered loan-sharking.

I have a friend who took out a loan to go on vacation.

Honestly, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with that hanging around my neck.

This kind of anti-education mentality is why we are becoming a weaker and weaker superpower. Next thing you know we will be outsourcing the good jobs because the people here are simply not qualified. However, the efficiency of higher learning institutions is poorer than it could be but this is a totally different problem. I myself will be graduating soon with a double major in physics and mathematics which wasnt the plan until I learned the hard way the importance of getting an education at a credible institution. Not only do you need an education now-a-days, you need prove clearly in your academic career that you are an efficient, dependable, hard working machine. I firmly believe that history has shown us that the country with the tech and the smartest people wins period. Do you forget how we became a super power and are you blind as to how we have remained the biggest superpower in the world. Unfortunately, since people no longer care anymore about science (thanks alot FOX NEWS!!) germany and europe as a whole is fast becoming the hub of physics and other fields of knowledge.

I know someone who has ~ 20K in credit card debt. Credit card debt. You know, where the interest alone would be considered loan-sharking.

I have a friend who took out a loan to go on vacation.

Honestly, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with that hanging around my neck.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="CrisisFrmTheSky"]

Expectations, along with a raise, tend to increase. And usually, it's the expectations that increase faster then the pay-check. Believe me, 30k is not "Kingly" living in any sense. Bills... bills.... bills.

CrisisFrmTheSky

I get by almost fine as it is right now, and my expectations would not rise. I wouldnt buy more stuff, but I could just afford higher quality stuff. Also, I could build my credit as I could actually afford to make monthly payments on a thing or two.

I am one of those rare people that only spends money he has. If I dont have money, well, I am living off whatever tips I get and eating Ramen/nothing

Something tells me you lack a female in your life. Not saying your current motives and habits are bad, they are in fact common sense. But yes, a female tends to have a different set of expectations and realities.

They want vacations. Pretty drinks with umbrellas in it. They want that painting, that sofa, a giant f'n bed - oooh, oooh, we should go to the opera more, do you think we need more lighting, the gardens - the gardens they need maaaaoooor!

>_> And I don't even have kids yet.

Stay single and play an MMO. Much cheaper.

yea, I definately lack a lady in my life, thank god. Thats why I look forward to the 30k lol

...germany and europe as a whole is fast becoming the hub of physics and other fields of knowledge.

anasbouzid

The money is here, as are the facilities - it's the number of people interested in mathematics (both pure and applied) and the physical sciences that are lacking in my opinion.

I would also love to learn about your plans with math and physics. :)

I HAD 10,000 in credit card debt -happened when I had to sell my house (at a loss) to move to Dallas last May But I got a 0% interest card (for a year) and should have it paid off in about 7 months -moved the balance from one 0% card to anotherrawsavon

yea, I definately lack a lady in my life, thank god. Thats why I look forward to the 30k lol

mrbojangles25

Of course you don't NEED a college education to learn, but a degree is some minimal guarantee that you have learned something useful, and are capable and willing to work jobs which tend to be better paying than those not associated with degree holders. As far as actually learning at college, I have learned next to nothing from my social studies, composition and humanities course. I have amassed massive amounts of learning from my engineering classes and considering that I'm majoring in mechanical engineering, I would consider that definitely a positive benefit from college besides the degree.

People should go to college to get a piece of paper to make themselves appear more valuable to a company, or to get a job, not to get an "education."

chocobo7000

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

yea, I definately lack a lady in my life, thank god. Thats why I look forward to the 30k lol

entropyecho

as it is now, I dont go out to eat. I am a good enough a cook and enjoy cooking enough to do stuff. I also prefer my alone time. Frankly, it does not take a lot to make me happy. As a result, I am very low maintenance. Give me a job I like, a decent computer, and a place to live and I am content.

Most people are not like me. I accept this. As a result, however, it means that if I get a girlfriend my costs will go up. Even if she is nice enough to split everything down the middle in terms of who buys this week's dinner bill, the end result is:

A. I will problably start going to the theatre more often...
B. I will probalbly go out to eat more often...
C. I will go out to drink and party more often...
D. I will problably want to buy her gifts, etc,...
E. If I like her enough, we might want to live togehter (higher rent)...

...if I had a girlfriend. All those things cost money. As it is right now, with my small amount of debt I pay and all my expenses, I set aside 100 dollars a month in my savings. Thats not a lot, and certainly not enough to have a girlfriend with.

[QUOTE="chocobo7000"]

People should go to college to get a piece of paper to make themselves appear more valuable to a company, or to get a job, not to get an "education."

xaos

I know someone who has ~ 20K in credit card debt. Credit card debt. You know, where the interest alone would be considered loan-sharking.

I have a friend who took out a loan to go on vacation.

Honestly, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with that hanging around my neck.

entropyecho

[QUOTE="chocobo7000"]

People should go to college to get a piece of paper to make themselves appear more valuable to a company, or to get a job, not to get an "education."

xaos

unfortunately most students do not appreciate the education. For them, it really is about the piece of paper, the credibility.

Students never ask "why?" or "how?" anymore...they always ask "Will this be on the test?" They dont care about learning, only about the grade and getting out.

This is one of the many reasons I was disgusted with my college experience. I was expecting to be surrounded by people that appreciated education, enjoyed discussing stuff. But unfortunately that was not the case.

I am very grateful for my education, and happy I went through it, but it is extremely hard for me to recommend college to anyone unless they are dead-set on a certain career.

as it is now, I dont go out to eat. I am a good enough a cook and enjoy cooking enough to do stuff. I also prefer my alone time. Frankly, it does not take a lot to make me happy. As a result, I am very low maintenance. Give me a job I like, a decent computer, and a place to live and I am content.

Most people are not like me. I accept this. As a result, however, it means that if I get a girlfriend my costs will go up. Even if she is nice enough to split everything down the middle in terms of who buys this week's dinner bill, the end result is:

A. I will problably start going to the theatre more often...
B. I will probalbly go out to eat more often...
C. I will go out to drink and party more often...
D. I will problably want to buy her gifts, etc,...
E. If I like her enough, we might want to live togehter (higher rent)...

...if I had a girlfriend. All those things cost money. As it is right now, with my small amount of debt I pay and all my expenses, I set aside 100 dollars a month in my savings. Thats not a lot, and certainly not enough to have a girlfriend with.

mrbojangles25

[QUOTE="chocobo7000"]

People should go to college to get a piece of paper to make themselves appear more valuable to a company, or to get a job, not to get an "education."

xaos

I'm not sure whether or not he gets the point that with out the education associated with those pieces of paper that they would be useless.

I think 30k is what most graduates make straight out of college. I seem to remember hearing that number somewhere...

It would depend on how long he has been at his company and what he does I guess.

Atmanix

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="chocobo7000"]

People should go to college to get a piece of paper to make themselves appear more valuable to a company, or to get a job, not to get an "education."

mrbojangles25

unfortunately most students do not appreciate the education. For them, it really is about the piece of paper, the credibility.

Students never ask "why?" or "how?" anymore...they always ask "Will this be on the test?" They dont care about learning, only about the grade and getting out.

This is one of the many reasons I was disgusted with my college experience. I was expecting to be surrounded by people that appreciated education, enjoyed discussing stuff. But unfortunately that was not the case.

I am very grateful for my education, and happy I went through it, but it is extremely hard for me to recommend college to anyone unless they are dead-set on a certain career.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

as it is now, I dont go out to eat. I am a good enough a cook and enjoy cooking enough to do stuff. I also prefer my alone time. Frankly, it does not take a lot to make me happy. As a result, I am very low maintenance. Give me a job I like, a decent computer, and a place to live and I am content.

Most people are not like me. I accept this. As a result, however, it means that if I get a girlfriend my costs will go up. Even if she is nice enough to split everything down the middle in terms of who buys this week's dinner bill, the end result is:

A. I will problably start going to the theatre more often...
B. I will probalbly go out to eat more often...
C. I will go out to drink and party more often...
D. I will problably want to buy her gifts, etc,...
E. If I like her enough, we might want to live togehter (higher rent)...

...if I had a girlfriend. All those things cost money. As it is right now, with my small amount of debt I pay and all my expenses, I set aside 100 dollars a month in my savings. Thats not a lot, and certainly not enough to have a girlfriend with.

entropyecho

rofl no, dont say that lol.

In college, everyone is broke. So a girlfriend is ok. But right after college, when you may have debt and youre not getting paid a lot...it can be tough.

And school is not pointless, it just is not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is.

yea, I definately lack a lady in my life, thank god. Thats why I look forward to the 30k lol

mrbojangles25

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

yea, I definately lack a lady in my life, thank god. Thats why I look forward to the 30k lol

Ontain

I dont really plan on getting married, I am talking a very chill, low maintenance girlfriend

but yea, without kids, married life is the way to go, at least financially :P

I want to open a brewpub, and being married would make that dream a whole lot easier

And school is not pointless, it just is not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is.

mrbojangles25

So, what I've learned from this thread is that college is pointless (or unfair) and having a girlfriend will destroy me economically. MMOs here I come. :(

entropyecho

Mwaha. And thus, I weed out those from continuing in the gene pool....

Hah. Don't let one random anonymous and fantastically sarcastic guy across the internet perverse your idea of a relationship. If anything, finances and how they should be utilized should be equally decided by both partners, along with all choices of households. Just make sure both of you understand, have a plan and set up a budget and the finances end up being a breeze.

In fact, even if I were single - I'd have a pretty good budget once you're out on your own making ends meet. Budget. Can't say enough about this simple idea/tool.

Women are wonderful creatures. I've been in a relationship with my wife for 8 years, married for 3. Wouldn't give it up for the world. I might trade a few weeks away for a one night stand with Kate Beckinsale but... um... what huh? What's this topic about. Oh right, stay in school kids.

I want to open a brewpub, and being married would make that dream a whole lot easier

mrbojangles25

Mwaha. And thus, I weed out those from continuing in the gene pool....

Hah. Don't let one random anonymous and fantastically sarcastic guy across the internet perverse your idea of a relationship. If anything, finances and how they should be utilized should be equally decided by both partners, along with all choices of households. Just make sure both of you understand, have a plan and set up a budget and the finances end up being a breeze.

In fact, even if I were single - I'd have a pretty good budget once you're out on your own making ends meet. Budget. Can't say enough about this simple idea/tool.

Women are wonderful creatures. I've been in a relationship with my wife for 8 years, married for 3. Wouldn't give it up for the world. I might trade a few weeks away for a one night stand with Kate Beckinsale but... um... what huh? What's this topic about. Oh right, stay in school kids.

CrisisFrmTheSky

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] I HAD 10,000 in credit card debt -happened when I had to sell my house (at a loss) to move to Dallas last May But I got a 0% interest card (for a year) and should have it paid off in about 7 months -moved the balance from one 0% card to anotherentropyecho

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

I want to open a brewpub, and being married would make that dream a whole lot easier

entropyecho

"Honey, I want to open a brewpub"

The words every woman wants to hear her man say.

The words every man wants her woman to say?

"Sweetie, I just won the lottery!"

Here's an interesting question... would you avoid getting close with someone you liked if it meant inheriting their debt? Let's be honest, once you are married or are in a serious relationship with someone, their debt is your debt. I wonder how many people have a debt threshold. It certainly doesn't sit well with me to pass that sort of judgment, but I think successful couples need to be financially compatible and you could learn a lot about someone depending on how well they manage money and debt.entropyecho

I married my wife knowing that she had a ton of school loan debt. If it was gambling debt, I'd steer clear. If it is, for lack of a better word, "responsible" debt (school, home, car, etc...) I'm fine with it.

[QUOTE="I"]

What, you're just supposed to take someone's word for it that they've been real busy at the library and on the Internet? You want that person building your car? Representing you in court? Performing surgery on you?

Here, I'll take an example from my own field: Defense. Who would you rather have defending your country?

• Someone who's actually been to a Basic training and military specialty schools, and is qualified on the latest weapons and equipment.
• Someone who promises they've been real busy at the gym, go huntin' regular, read up on Army radios online, and play Counterstrike.

Yeah, I want someone who can prove they're educated, by having authorities in the field test and certify them.

chocobo7000

Experience >>>>> Schooling. The person with more experience in the field always gets hired first.

The hiring process goes like this: Experience in field>Personality/interviewing skills>Schooling

Way to dodge my questions. Do you want someone defending your country who's been certified or who promises he plays a lot of Counterstrike?

Here's an interesting question... would you avoid getting close with someone you liked if it meant inheriting their debt? Let's be honest, once you are married or are in a serious relationship with someone, their debt is your debt. I wonder how many people have a debt threshold. It certainly doesn't sit well with me to pass that sort of judgment, but I think successful couples need to be financially compatible and you could learn a lot about someone depending on how well they manage money and debt.

entropyecho

Debt is shared, yes. In fact, both of our credit scores improved from good to excellent standing due to the nature of our history. Hers, mainly because she had an established credit card since she was legally allowed to carry one and myself, because of my massive student loans and ability to pay them back incrementally.

Another side pro-tip: I know some people can be afraid of credit cards, and those that aren't, often abuse the hell out of it. But get a credit card as soon as possible. Use it comfortably and pay it off like you would any bill, timely. You need to show the big 3 credit reporters history so they know you're not bat-f'n-insane with revolving credit.

So unto your original question. "Would you avoid getting close with someone you liked if it meant inheriting their debt?"

Well how about this. I like blondes with a good size rack. Guess what, my wife is a blonde with a good size rack. Now, is that why I married her? No. But unconsciously, did she fit some unconscious desire and I was drawn to her - sure. Now, if finances are an unconscious worry of yours, I'm sure it may detract you - even if you don't know it. But truthfully, I don't know while you're busy groping up your girlfriend if you're wording "Gee... I wonder what her credit score is?"

Perhaps her poor spending may tip you off and you may attribute that to some personality that you don't agree with. Financial stability is important for a family and future (depending on the type of future you want), but for me, it's not the be all end all. Mostly, if a relationship cracks - it's a lot of tiny little cracks.

[QUOTE="kbk1989"]

College is in fact a major waste of time. Unless you are going to study high math/science related material college is a waste of time. I did not go to college and I have a fine job making about 30k/yr, full benefits, etc. College is just a way to make sure you are in debt before you even get a job or anything else. Of course I can only speak for America, and our education system is a joke, especially higher education. College is just a 4 year party for most people here, then they get out and have no idea what to do in the real world.

rawsavon

*Being totally serious here*

30k is good?

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="kbk1989"]

College is in fact a major waste of time. Unless you are going to study high math/science related material college is a waste of time. I did not go to college and I have a fine job making about 30k/yr, full benefits, etc. College is just a way to make sure you are in debt before you even get a job or anything else. Of course I can only speak for America, and our education system is a joke, especially higher education. College is just a 4 year party for most people here, then they get out and have no idea what to do in the real world.

clayron

*Being totally serious here*

30k is good?

[QUOTE="anasbouzid"]

...germany and europe as a whole is fast becoming the hub of physics and other fields of knowledge.

entropyecho

The money is here, as are the facilities - it's the number of people interested in mathematics (both pure and applied) and the physical sciences that are lacking in my opinion.

I would also love to learn about your plans with math and physics. :)

[QUOTE="clayron"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]

*Being totally serious here*

30k is good?

xaos

College/university educations do a lot more than simply have students read materials and then test them on them, at least higher level courses do.

Since you seem to be largely talking about the liberal arts, here's how most of my classes work:

1. Read material
2. Identitify meaning and central arguments of material
3. Reflect, compare, and engage material critically
4. Discuss and debate with others who have done the same
5. In many cases effectively and persuasively write about the material
6. All of this with the guidance and judgement of someone who has already mastered the material

That is simply more valuable than taking it upon yourself to read the material. No, I'm not saying you NEED to take a class on Plato's Republic to understand the book, but it will certainly help hone your skills on the subject. Also, in terms of simply getting a library card or an internet connection.. you'll notice there's a reason why most college level courses won't allow you to use internet sources and non-peer reviewed materials in your work.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="kbk1989"]

College is in fact a major waste of time. Unless you are going to study high math/science related material college is a waste of time. I did not go to college and I have a fine job making about 30k/yr, full benefits, etc. College is just a way to make sure you are in debt before you even get a job or anything else. Of course I can only speak for America, and our education system is a joke, especially higher education. College is just a 4 year party for most people here, then they get out and have no idea what to do in the real world.

Atmanix

*Being totally serious here*

30k is good?

I think 30k is what most graduates make straight out of college. I seem to remember hearing that number somewhere...

It would depend on how long he has been at his company and what he does I guess.

30k would be extremely low for an engineer though. Most of my engineering friends who graduated two years ago started out with 60k salaries plus benefits. There was one with 80k and one with 140k (this guy is a genius though, can't really compare him to normal people). This was when the economy was close to hitting rock bottom too. Back during the economic boom, just a computer science BS degree from a good school could get you a 100k starting salary.

It's like people are brainwashed into thinking that in order to have a true education they have to go through college. There's the whole mindset where people think that everyone deserves the right to an education therefore the government should pay for their schooling, even if it is for useless classes/majors. You don't need college to educate yourself, all you need is an internet connection or a library card.

Watch documentaries, watch the history channel, read articles/books about subjects that interest you and you will get a better education than listening to lectures, writing notes, and cramming for tests will give you. People can just buy the books for the classes and read them without actually going to the classes. Now if we're talking about things such as engineering or medicine, that's a little different. People should go to college to get a piece of paper to make themselves appear more valuable to a company, or to get a job, not to get an "education."

chocobo7000

Congratulations, you probably just convinced around 50 teens that college is useless!!

No but seriously, college is needed if you don't want to live pay check to pay check.