If God knows everything....

If God knows everything...then not only would he know everything you're ever going to do, but he would also be aware of everything that he is going to do. Ever.

So basically, that means God knew he was going to flood his own corrupt world, and punish people unfairly after they do what he knew they were going to do, and knew he was going to have a world full of famine and disease before he even made it. And he knew he was going to blame it on us afterwards too. Sad, huh?

But the real point I'm trying to make is, if God knows everything, meaning he knows what he's going to do before he does it, then that also means he's anchored to a pre-set destiny that even he cannot change, because even if he wanted to make changes, he would already know he was going to make those changes before he goes through with them. In fact, God would even know this too, from being all-knowing. But if God is confined to a destiny that even he cannot change beyond his means of knowledge beforehand, he is just as much a slave to design as the rest of us. Thus, he is not all-powerful, because he cannot change his destiny. He would just be a being that happens to have more abilities than we humans do, but not unlimited in his ability.

Knowing everything you're going to do before you do it would leave you without a meaning to live. There would be nothing left to explore or learn. It would be as if you had already lived and seen it all. You'd be just as good as dead. Nothing new to feel, see, hear, or experience in any way. It would literally be a permanent state of limbo - being forever stuck - which is equivalent to not living at all. And if you're saying that God made us to have a reason to live... well, not only does it make God look like he's dependent on us to have a meaningful life (in which case, he should treat us better than he does with his tasteless ultimatums), but it also falls under the category of what he knew beforehand, thus it nullifies it's meaning. Therefore, God's existence has no meaning, and anything that has no meaning, couldn't exist.

The characteristics given to God by the people who created him, are flawed... as flawed as the beings themselves. They didn't think about how all the attributes they were assigning to him are blatant impossibilities, too far-fetched for anyone of at least medium intelligence to believe, and how building an entire empire upon a foundation of wishful thinking is a complete disaster waiting to happen. And look what we have nowadays... the disaster that was waiting to happen, has happened, because of these people's short-sightedness. Wars are born from religious beliefs. Wars that would not have happened otherwise. All because of people gripping way too hard to their fantasy of choice, rather than humbly giving an effort to understand each other. What a complete debacle, and an embarrassment our religions have made out of our species. Or perhaps, the religions we have invented are simply indicative of how ignorant we've really been all along? Now that would be something to be embarrassed of. Whatever the case may be, you can be sure of this: Almost all intolerance among mankind is influenced by a religious belief of some sort.

So the bottom line is, we need to do away with our silly little fantasies of a higher being whom we have never seen, because it has caused us way too much hardship. In the interest of preserving the only life we know, we should put these far-fetched fairy tales to rest. Forever.... or at least until we try another route, and if we come up short, then we can go back to what we had before.

We were ignorant to think that we knew where we came from without any proof of such. We were foolish to believe that we are so special that everything that has ever happened was done just for us, by a being who is much like us, and always has our interests in mind. Why don't we just wait until the day we discover the actual source of our existence, before jumping to silly conclusions like a big bearded dictator in the sky, for example. It's OK if we don't know yet, there's nothing wrong with that. And we can find out one day, possibly, if we really want to, I think. But whether or not finding the source of our existence is a possibility or not, one thing is for sure: We will never find it if we keep deluding ourselves with this myriad of meritless fairy tales.

I say, that in the interest of knowing our true origin, and reaching true enlightenment, we leave these stupid religions behind, and go searching, one way or another, for the real truth. If there really is a caring, understanding God, I doubt he would be angry with us for being curious, and having a hunger for more knowledge of ourselves. Heck, he would know we would want to do that before we do it anyway, right? What's there for God to be mad about? I think we've been misinformed, purposely in fact, by those who wish to control the rest of us. They want you to be scared of an unseen higher power, so as to condition you into a habitually submissive state, to make it all the easier for them to push you around...

So, live a little. Explore what intrigues you. And don't live life looking over your shoulder out of fear for a being that you've only been told exists, but you have never seen, and could never understand anyway, even if he existed. Just let go. Your creator would understand everything you do anyway, if you indeed were created by an omnipotent creator. God could never be mad at you, if he made you... that's impossible, unless... one horrible possibility is true. The possibility that God is just a cruel, oppressive dictator who gets off on punishing those weaker than him. As long as this one possibility is not reality, there would truly be nothing to fear. Live free.

-- I_Am_Rage

God is not affected by his own laws. After all, he did create them. harashawn

Congratulations, you've found a contradiction within religious beliefs.

If you are questioning God by saying he can't do that then you just answered your own question. Because God can do anything.nVidiaGaMer

just because we have the ability to see doesnt mean we have to look :P sorry, but that post was pretty much failspyrofan_sp

Knowing what will happen =/= being set in that course of action.

By the way, this is account. . . nine, right?

This is certainly one of the best reads I've seen from a level one user. =) I agree with one exception, most wars aren't started because of religion. Although religion is used as a justification at times, wars are usually started because of greed, hate, money, power, etc.bededog

Interesting read. Anyways.

I do agree with you.

sorry i only read the last few sentences, but what i could gather was, live your life without fear, even if god exists? correct or incorrect.Joker_268

No.

If you believe in God, you live in fear. So stop living in fear.

It's the same crap he always spouts.

Knowing what will happen =/= being set in that course of action.Theokhoth

If God knows everything...then not only would he know everything you're ever going to do, but he would also be aware of everything that he is going to do. Ever.

So basically, that means God knew he was going to flood his own corrupt world, and punish people unfairly after they do what he knew they were going to do, and knew he was going to have a world full of famine and disease before he even made it. And he knew he was going to blame it on us afterwards too. Sad, huh?

Again, its not sad, you're making assumptions, than changing those assumptions to conclusions about his personality. We have free will, the concept in which we choose our destiny, our place in this universe. You're confusing the concept of all knowing with all controlling. Pretend this is a chess game, and you're a pawn and God is the opposing player you're facing. God knows what your limitations are, what moves are you going to make and to counter it, HOWEVER, he chooses to make that move anyways, that is free will to make a decision based on the situation without interference and accepting the consequences of that decision. That is God,he punishes because we the humans he created CHOOSE to be corrupt not through God's interference. We were blamed because it our responsibility for the actions we made, God may be all knowing but he isn't all controlling, the decisions we make ours alone.

But the real point I'm trying to make is, if God knows everything, meaning he knows what he's going to do before he does it, then that also means he's anchored to a pre-set destiny that even he cannot change, because even if he wanted to make changes, he would already know he was going to make those changes before he goes through with them. In fact, God would even know this too, from being all-knowing. But if God is confined to a destiny that even he cannot change beyond his means of knowledge beforehand, he is just as much a slave to design as the rest of us. Thus, he is not all-powerful, because he cannot change his destiny. He would just be a being that happens to have more abilities than we humans do, but not unlimited in his ability.

One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.

The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimension of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.

Again God is more complex than that, he can choose his own destiny because he is not confine to the universe limitations. God wouldn't change his destiny because he already has plan that he chooses to fulfill.

Knowing everything you're going to do before you do it would leave you without a meaning to live. There would be nothing left to explore or learn. It would be as if you had already lived and seen it all. You'd be just as good as dead. Nothing new to feel, see, hear, or experience in any way. It would literally be a permanent state of limbo - being forever stuck - which is equivalent to not living at all. And if you're saying that God made us to have a reason to live... well, not only does it make God look like he's dependent on us to have a meaningful life (in which case, he should treat us better than he does with his tasteless ultimatums), but it also falls under the category of what he knew beforehand, thus it nullifies it's meaning. Therefore, God's existence has no meaning, and anything that has no meaning, couldn't exist.

:roll: Again that's a limitation you are putting on God. Being God may seem boring to us because of inner desire to thrive, to gain everything and to be desired. God However is NOT HUMAN. He is beyond human therefore what we might find boring, he finds interesting. In addition, dude don't go nihilist on me, that concept you just made with that conclusion is out of there I'm still laughing at the idea that you're putting human flaws to an all knowing Deity.

The characteristics given to God by the people who created him, are flawed... as flawed as the beings themselves. They didn't think about how all the attributes they were assigning to him are blatant impossibilities, too far-fetched for anyone of at least medium intelligence to believe, and how building an entire empire upon a foundation of wishful thinking is a complete disaster waiting to happen. And look what we have nowadays... the disaster that was waiting to happen, has happened, because of these people's short-sightedness. Wars are born from religious beliefs. Wars that would not have happened otherwise. All because of people gripping way too hard to their fantasy of choice, rather than humbly giving an effort to understand each other. What a complete debacle, and an embarrassment our religions have made out of our species. Or perhaps, the religions we have invented are simply indicative of how ignorant we've really been all along? Now that would be something to be embarrassed of. Whatever the case may be, you can be sure of this: Almost all intolerance among mankind is influenced by a religious belief of some sort.

Sigh, man you really suck at this base your information and conclusions on fact rather than opinion.

Vox Day, in The Irrational Atheist, lists 22 atheistic regimes that committed 153,368,610 murders in the 20th century alone:

Murders by Atheists (20th Century) CountryDatesMurdersAfghanistan1978–19921,750,000Albania1944–1985100,000Angola1975–2002125,000Bulgaria1944–1989222,000China/PRC1923–200776,702,000Cuba1959–199273,000Czechoslovakia1948–196865,000Ethiopia1974–19911,343,610France1793–179440,000Greece1946–194920,000Hungary1948–198927,000Kampuchea/Cambodia1973–19912,627,000Laos1975–200793,000Mongolia1926–2007100,000Mozambique1975–1990118,000North Korea1948–20073,163,000Poland1945–19481,607,000Romania1948–1987438,000Spain (Republic)1936–1939102,000U.S.S.R.1917–198761,911,000Vietnam1945–20071,670,000Yugoslavia1944–19801,072,000

Figure 1. Percentage of democide based upon type of government control.

What percentage of this democide was due to religious conflict? It turns out that religious democide doesn't even make the top 20 (although I am sure there is some in the "lesser murderers" category. Still, the total religious killings is less than 2%. In fact, the top two killers were specifically atheistic states (which had never existed before in human history). Should atheism be blamed for more than 50% of the atrocities committed during the 20th century? The answer of course is No! If one examines the nature of the regimes that committed these atrocities (even the religious ones), the key factor is absolute power (see Figure 1, right). According to Professor R.J. Rummel, in the 1816-2005 period there were 205 wars between non-democracies, 166 wars between non-democracies and democracies, and 0 wars between democracies. Lord Acton's warning that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" seems to be more than just a trite saying.

So the bottom line is, we need to do away with our silly little fantasies of a higher being whom we have never seen, because it has caused us way too much hardship. In the interest of preserving the only life we know, we should put these far-fetched fairy tales to rest. Forever.... or at least until we try another route, and if we come up short, then we can go back to what we had before.

Again present an actual factual conclusion. Religion has done many great things in this world and many of the most influential people in the world are religious, MLK, Ghandi, JFK and even Albert Einstein believed in a Deity. To say they are wrong would require for you to provide the evidence, not the other way around.

We were ignorant to think that we knew where we came from without any proof of such. We were foolish to believe that we are so special that everything that has ever happened was done just for us, by a being who is much like us, and always has our interests in mind. Why don't we just wait until the day we discover the actual source of our existence, before jumping to silly conclusions like a big bearded dictator in the sky, for example. It's OK if we don't know yet, there's nothing wrong with that. And we can find out one day, possibly, if we really want to, I think. But whether or not finding the source of our existence is a possibility or not, one thing is for sure: We will never find it if we keep deluding ourselves with this myriad of meritless fairy tales.

You just said the same thing in the previous paragraphs, the fact that we don't know makes the concept of faith much more rewarding. We don't know God exists, but we choose to believe giving us a higher purpose than a universe created by random coincidence and where we die and have no purpose other than to die a lonely existence.

I say, that in the interest of knowing our true origin, and reaching true enlightenment, we leave these stupid religions behind, and go searching, one way or another, for the real truth. If there really is a caring, understanding God, I doubt he would be angry with us for being curious, and having a hunger for more knowledge of ourselves. Heck, he would know we would want to do that before we do it anyway, right? What's there for God to be mad about? I think we've been misinformed, purposely in fact, by those who wish to control the rest of us. They want you to be scared of an unseen higher power, so as to condition you into a habitually submissive state, to make it all the easier for them to push you around...

Who are they? Stop being so subtle and actually make a statement. We have free will and we have the choice to either be submissive or to be defiant.

So, live a little. Explore what intrigues you. And don't live life looking over your shoulder out of fear for a being that you've only been told exists, but you have never seen, and could never understand anyway, even if he existed. Just let go. Your creator would understand everything you do anyway, if you indeed were created by an omnipotent creator. God could never be mad at you, if he made you... that's impossible, unless... one horrible possibility is true. The possibility that God is just a cruel, oppressive dictator who gets off on punishing those weaker than him. As long as this one possibility is not reality, there would truly be nothing to fear. Live free.

I will live in a world where I believe God exists but through not your conclusions, but through mine.

---GreenPrince

-- I_Am_Rage

I_Am_Rage

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Knowing what will happen =/= being set in that course of action.I_Am_Rage

Is it at all logically possible to grow beyond the infinite? If God has infinite knowledge, then of ****ing course God can't go beyond that: it's infinite.

So, account eight, then? Ten? Come one, I know it's more than seven.

[QUOTE="Joker_268"]sorry i only read the last few sentences, but what i could gather was, live your life without fear, even if god exists? correct or incorrect.Theokhoth

No.

If you believe in God, you live in fear. So stop living in fear.

It's the same crap he always spouts.

Because he can if he couldn't contradict himself and get away with it. Then can he be called God? No that is why he can be called God because everything he does can be accepted.MgamerBD

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]Because he can if he couldn't contradict himself and get away with it. Then can he be called God? No that is why he can be called God because everything he does can be accepted.I_Am_Rage

That sounds like a cop-out.

[QUOTE="spyrofan_sp"]just because we have the ability to see doesnt mean we have to look :P sorry, but that post was pretty much failI_Am_Rage

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Joker_268"]sorry i only read the last few sentences, but what i could gather was, live your life without fear, even if god exists? correct or incorrect.I_Am_Rage

No.

If you believe in God, you live in fear. So stop living in fear.

It's the same crap he always spouts.

And I'm a bar of chocolate.

[QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Knowing what will happen =/= being set in that course of action.Theokhoth

Is it all logically possible to grow beyond the infinite? If God has infinite knowledge, then of ----ing course God can't go beyond that: it's infinite.

His existence is recognized as being infinite. Not his knowledge. In regards to his knowledge, it is usually described as "all-knowing". He is believed by worshippers to be knowing of the infinite, but his knowledge would not be. Please try not to blur these lines. Being all-knowing leaves you bound.

His existence is recognized as being infinite. Not his knowledge. In regards to his knowledge, it is usually described as "all-knowing".

I_Am_Rage

Also known as omniscience. Meaning: Infinite knowledge. If you know all, then your knowledge is limitless and thus is infinite.

[QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

No.

If you believe in God, you live in fear. So stop living in fear.

It's the same crap he always spouts.

Theokhoth

And I'm a bar of chocolate.

[QUOTE="Joker_268"]sorry i only read the last few sentences, but what i could gather was, live your life without fear, even if god exists? correct or incorrect.Theokhoth

No.

If you believe in God, you live in fear. So stop living in fear.

It's the same crap he always spouts.

[QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"][QUOTE="spyrofan_sp"]just because we have the ability to see doesnt mean we have to look :P sorry, but that post was pretty much failspyrofan_sp

His existence is recognized as being infinite. Not his knowledge. In regards to his knowledge, it is usually described as "all-knowing".

Also known as omniscience. Meaning: Infinite knowledge. If you know all, then your knowledge is limitless and thus is infinite.

[QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"] Also, I'm not a "he". ;)Funky_Llama

Again, I'm a bar of chocolate.

And I'm a bar of chocolate. Theokhoth

Knowledge can't be infinite. You can have knowledge of the infinite, but your knowledge can not be infinite. Even if your existence was infinte, and you thik this would also make your knowledge infinite as it's a part of you, your knowledge itself would still be supported by the fact that it exists only because you do too. I_Am_Rage

And so if you are infinite, and will always exist, so is your knowledge, as there will never be a point where you do not exist, and since you are all-knowing, meaning you know everything, meaning everything, your knowledge most certainly is infinite in every sense of the word, in existence and span.

[QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"] Knowledge can't be infinite. You can have knowledge of the infinite, but your knowledge can not be infinite. Even if your existence was infinte, and you thik this would also make your knowledge infinite as it's a part of you, your knowledge itself would still be supported by the fact that it exists only because you do too. Theokhoth

And so if you are infinite, and will always exist, so is your knowledge, as there will never be a point where you do not exist, and since you are all-knowing, meaning you know everything, meaning everything, your knowledge most certainly is infinite in every sense of the word, in existence and span.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"] Knowledge can't be infinite. You can have knowledge of the infinite, but your knowledge can not be infinite. Even if your existence was infinte, and you thik this would also make your knowledge infinite as it's a part of you, your knowledge itself would still be supported by the fact that it exists only because you do too. I_Am_Rage

And so if you are infinite, and will always exist, so is your knowledge, as there will never be a point where you do not exist, and since you are all-knowing, meaning you know everything, meaning everything, your knowledge most certainly is infinite in every sense of the word, in existence and span.

Okay, so if ever God pops out of existence, I'll concede the point to you.

[QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

And so if you are infinite, and will always exist, so is your knowledge, as there will never be a point where you do not exist, and since you are all-knowing, meaning you know everything, meaning everything, your knowledge most certainly is infinite in every sense of the word, in existence and span.

Theokhoth

Okay, so if ever God pops out of existence, I'll concede the point to you.

Based upon what we know of God at this point in time, I'd say you already have to concede the point to me. What basis do you have for your implication that God is already there?

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]Because he can if he couldn't contradict himself and get away with it. Then can he be called God? No that is why he can be called God because everything he does can be accepted.I_Am_Rage

Based upon what we know of God at this point in time, I'd say you already have to concede the point to me. What basis do you have for your implication that God is already there?

I_Am_Rage

Irrelevant. Your argument rests solely on God's properties; for me to argue your point requires me to assume God's existence and properties, otherwise there is no debate here and your topic is a waste of time.

[QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"][QUOTE="MgamerBD"]Because he can if he couldn't contradict himself and get away with it. Then can he be called God? No that is why he can be called God because everything he does can be accepted.MgamerBD

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="I_Am_Rage"] Cop-out explanations like this are what should not be accepted.I_Am_Rage

And you still have no intelligent answer whatsoever! Trademark, DS, simply trademark.