Why would Christiansgo around telling people abouttheir religion? If a neutral person was oblivous to Christianity and was exempt from Hell why would you tell them? Basically, Christianity forces one to follow their beliefs and morals. If a child was exempt from Hell why would you tell them about it? Christianity tells people "if you don't obey the teachings of God and belief in him you will burn for all eternity"
If I didn't know about Christianity why would you tell me?
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Why would Christiansgo around telling people abouttheir religion? If a neutral person was oblivous to Christianity and was exempt from Hell why would you tell them? Basically, Christianity forces one to follow their beliefs and morals. If a child was exempt from Hell why would you tell them about it? Christianity tells people "if you don't obey the teachings of God and belief in him you will burn for all eternity"
Gunslinger_1988
Come to think of it, Christianity is a lot like The Game. There's no reason to tell anyone about it other than to be annoying and force them to play (and lose) for the rest of their lives. :P
Their book commands them to. They ought to consider it a privilege. If they're luke warm and never talk about their faith, they probably aren't true believers to begin with; that's why Paul said "Woe is me if I preach not the gospel".
Evangelism, to me, is the single most annoying part of Christianity. It's not good enough for them to believe what they do; they have to try to get other people to do the same.jalexbrownReligions survive in two ways. 1- Keep as many of the existing members in as is possible 2- Add as many new members as possible
It's about giving everyone an equal chance to hear the good news, its up to the individual to choose to believe or not. Jesus said make disciples of all nations and be fishers of man._rock_No, it's not equal you're forcing someone to believe what you believe and if they don't they will be tortured, burned, and suffer. You are condeming people by telling them about Christianity.
[QUOTE="Gunslinger_1988"]
Why would Christiansgo around telling people abouttheir religion? If a neutral person was oblivous to Christianity and was exempt from Hell why would you tell them? Basically, Christianity forces one to follow their beliefs and morals. If a child was exempt from Hell why would you tell them about it? Christianity tells people "if you don't obey the teachings of God and belief in him you will burn for all eternity"
black_cat19
Come to think of it, Christianity is a lot like The Game. There's no reason to tell anyone about it other than to be annoying and force them to play (and lose) for the rest of their lives. :P
Did you just watch that movie on TV too? :P
[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]Evangelism, to me, is the single most annoying part of Christianity. It's not good enough for them to believe what they do; they have to try to get other people to do the same.SteveTabernacleReligions survive in two ways. 1- Keep as many of the existing members in as is possible 2- Add as many new members as possible You do know that some people discover a religion through means other than evangelism, right? One particular characteristic of Judaism is its lack of evangelism; you'll never see a rabbi out preaching Judaism to nonbelievers - it just doesn't happen. In fact it's Jewish norm for a rabbi to deny someone conversion three times to test one's conviction before allowing them to enter into conversion classes.
It's about giving everyone an equal chance to hear the good news, its up to the individual to choose to believe or not. Jesus said make disciples of all nations and be fishers of man._rock_If a Muslim missionary comes to you and tries to convert you, you will say no. To you, Christianity is the one true religion with the "one true god". Especially if you were raised and indoctrinated into it at an early age. In the vast majority of cases, a Muslim will not convert due to the works of Christianity. for he was likely raised int he religion and indoctrinated at a young age as well. he regards his religion as the one true religion and etc. as well. If you had been born in Afghanistan, you would view the Koran as the "good news", and would view Allah as the one true God. The vast majority of believers in any given religion are so by pure chance. If the assumption that those ignorant of Christ are exempt from hell is true, it's an undeniable fact that sharing the good news condemns far more people to hell, than it saves from it.
You do know that some people discover a religion through means other than evangelism, right? One particular characteristic of Judaism is its lack of evangelism; you'll never see a rabbi out preaching Judaism to nonbelievers - it just doesn't happen. In fact it's Jewish norm for a rabbi to deny someone conversion three times to test one's conviction before allowing them to enter into conversion classes.jalexbrownWhich is why Judaism is smaller than Islam and Christianity. They have one of the two down pat.
[QUOTE="_rock_"]It's about giving everyone an equal chance to hear the good news, its up to the individual to choose to believe or not. Jesus said make disciples of all nations and be fishers of man.Gunslinger_1988No, it's not equal you're forcing someone to believe what you believe and if they don't they will be tortured, burned, and suffer. You are condeming people by telling them about Christianity.No, any preacher preaching about burning in hell is not preaching the real Christianity. Giving people the change to know the love of Christ. I can't speak for all Christians but if someone dosen't want to hear it I definitly not force it on them, I will just simply love them the way jesus would. But you are right, Some Christians do bible bash and preach about burning it hell and it is not right.
[QUOTE="Gunslinger_1988"][QUOTE="_rock_"]It's about giving everyone an equal chance to hear the good news, its up to the individual to choose to believe or not. Jesus said make disciples of all nations and be fishers of man._rock_No, it's not equal you're forcing someone to believe what you believe and if they don't they will be tortured, burned, and suffer. You are condeming people by telling them about Christianity.No, any preacher preaching about burning in hell is not preaching the real Christianity. Giving people the change to know the love of Christ. I can't speak for all Christians but if someone dosen't want to hear it I definitly not force it on them, I will just simply love them the way jesus would. But you are right, Some Christians do bible bash and preach about burning it hell and it is not right.
And sadly, those are the christians that stand out the most and the ones many non-christians think of whenever someone mentions christianity, simply because they're SO DAMN ANNOYING.
Not that I don't like it, I think there's one too many threads about christians floating around..... They do it in an attempt to "save people", though they do it in a way, IMO, that is as annoying and pesky as a mosquito flying in my ear. It's unwanted, yet, they continue. Got to admire their stubbornness though because they refuse to give up. I just wish they would stop forcing kids to see their views and brainwashing people into believing that what's not explainable is the work of God. There are tons of things I can list that I dislike about christians, but those two things are the ones that really stick out to me....tocool340
I don't see why all of christianity is taking the rap for what I believe to be, the doings of the seven day adventist since I mostly know them to be the ones floating around door to door.
[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]You do know that some people discover a religion through means other than evangelism, right? One particular characteristic of Judaism is its lack of evangelism; you'll never see a rabbi out preaching Judaism to nonbelievers - it just doesn't happen. In fact it's Jewish norm for a rabbi to deny someone conversion three times to test one's conviction before allowing them to enter into conversion classes.SteveTabernacleWhich is why Judaism is smaller than Islam and Christianity. They have one of the two down pat. And if we're going to be conservative, it's also at least 1,000 years older than Christianity, which is itself around 600 years older than Islam. If religions have to grow at the cost of being more intolerant towards other religions, then I'm proud to be associated with one that will let its numbers dwindle. (Something else to keep in mind is that more disasters have befallen Jews than any other world religion.)
[QUOTE="tocool340"]Not that I don't like it, I think there's one too many threads about christians floating around..... They do it in an attempt to "save people", though they do it in a way, IMO, that is as annoying and pesky as a mosquito flying in my ear. It's unwanted, yet, they continue. Got to admire their stubbornness though because they refuse to give up. I just wish they would stop forcing kids to see their views and brainwashing people into believing that what's not explainable is the work of God. There are tons of things I can list that I dislike about christians, but those two things are the ones that really stick out to me....Espada12
I don't see why all of christianity is taking the rap for what I believe to be, the doings of the seven day adventist since I mostly know them to be the ones floating around door to door.
Do you care to guess which branch of Christianity has shown up at my college campus on at least four different occasions without permission handing out Bibles and preaching to passer-bys that expressed no interest?Though I'm sure they might be out there, I've never heard of a Christian denomination that believed you wouldn't go to Hell if you'd never heard about it.guynamedbilly
Well, they maybe didn't say that because the Bible doesn't say that, it doesn't comment either way. But the fact that salvation in christianity is determined by faith and not works, tends to point towards a nasty realization about a "loving God". But a lot of christians I've interacted with growing up in the faith said people ignorant of Christ were exmept from hell anyway. Why? Well, despite the fact that you haven't heard of a denomination that says you wouldn't go to hell if you didn't hear Christ's message, I doubt you'll find more than a very small handful willing to say they believe babies and small children who die before the age where they can hear the message of Christ and accept him are going to hell. Despite the fact that the bible doesn't comment on that either.
Like the baby thing, the ones who do say it so do because it is very comforting. The thought of their God condemning people to eternal torture and suffering for being born in a remote part of the world, or being born before Rome made Christianity big, is pretty terrible. It goes against that whole "loving God" thing in a major way. The thought of God throwing babies in hell, well, that's just repulsive. (not to mention blatantly evil) Can't blame them for simply assuming God meant to say these things, but just didn't have time to say so when he was faxing the bible into peoples brains for them to write it. I mean really, if a non-believer asks "what happened to all the people who grew up in another religion and were good people but never heard the good news of Christ" and he is told "they were all sent to hell because salvation is determined by faith not works, oh but he is a loving God!", I really doubt they would convert. So, that's why those who say it, say it.
[QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"][QUOTE="jalexbrown"]You do know that some people discover a religion through means other than evangelism, right? One particular characteristic of Judaism is its lack of evangelism; you'll never see a rabbi out preaching Judaism to nonbelievers - it just doesn't happen. In fact it's Jewish norm for a rabbi to deny someone conversion three times to test one's conviction before allowing them to enter into conversion classes.jalexbrownWhich is why Judaism is smaller than Islam and Christianity. They have one of the two down pat. And if we're going to be conservative, it's also at least 1,000 years older than Christianity, which is itself around 600 years older than Islam. If religions have to grow at the cost of being more intolerant towards other religions, then I'm proud to be associated with one that will let its numbers dwindle. (Something else to keep in mind is that more disasters have befallen Jews than any other world religion.)
Errm who is intolerant to other religions? Judaism and christianity most definitely will have some tension, especially with how the believed events of jesus' crucification went down. But islam generally acknowledges all religions. I suspect jewish lack of evangelism stems from the fact they considered themselves to be the chosen people by god so basically they don't bother to associate or convert others because they do not believe them to be part of the chosen.
[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="tocool340"]Not that I don't like it, I think there's one too many threads about christians floating around..... They do it in an attempt to "save people", though they do it in a way, IMO, that is as annoying and pesky as a mosquito flying in my ear. It's unwanted, yet, they continue. Got to admire their stubbornness though because they refuse to give up. I just wish they would stop forcing kids to see their views and brainwashing people into believing that what's not explainable is the work of God. There are tons of things I can list that I dislike about christians, but those two things are the ones that really stick out to me....jalexbrown
I don't see why all of christianity is taking the rap for what I believe to be, the doings of the seven day adventist since I mostly know them to be the ones floating around door to door.
Do you care to guess which branch of Christianity has shown up at my college campus on at least four different occasions without permission handing out Bibles and preaching to passer-bys that expressed no interest?I have no idea, but I highly doubt it was any of the big 5.
Do you care to guess which branch of Christianity has shown up at my college campus on at least four different occasions without permission handing out Bibles and preaching to passer-bys that expressed no interest?jalexbrownDo you guys have street preachers? I've seen youtube vids, it tends to get heated when they show up on a college campus.
[QUOTE="Gunslinger_1988"][QUOTE="_rock_"]It's about giving everyone an equal chance to hear the good news, its up to the individual to choose to believe or not. Jesus said make disciples of all nations and be fishers of man._rock_No, it's not equal you're forcing someone to believe what you believe and if they don't they will be tortured, burned, and suffer. You are condeming people by telling them about Christianity.No, any preacher preaching about burning in hell is not preaching the real Christianity. Giving people the change to know the love of Christ. I can't speak for all Christians but if someone dosen't want to hear it I definitly not force it on them, I will just simply love them the way jesus would. But you are right, Some Christians do bible bash and preach about burning it hell and it is not right. Basically you're telling me that Christians won't be punished if they don't obey God? You are preaching false religion.
[QUOTE="_rock_"][QUOTE="Gunslinger_1988"] No, it's not equal you're forcing someone to believe what you believe and if they don't they will be tortured, burned, and suffer. You are condeming people by telling them about Christianity.Gunslinger_1988No, any preacher preaching about burning in hell is not preaching the real Christianity. Giving people the change to know the love of Christ. I can't speak for all Christians but if someone dosen't want to hear it I definitly not force it on them, I will just simply love them the way jesus would. But you are right, Some Christians do bible bash and preach about burning it hell and it is not right. Basically you're telling me that Christians won't be punished if they don't obey God? You are preaching false religion.
I am not sure how you even got that from the statement you quoted..
Do you care to guess which branch of Christianity has shown up at my college campus on at least four different occasions without permission handing out Bibles and preaching to passer-bys that expressed no interest?jalexbrown
Showing up at a college to preach, I think they are way too late to change their minds about their beliefs, I'm not saying is impossible to change but one dude randomly appearing and telling you the word of God is not gonna make you a believer.
And if we're going to be conservative, it's also at least 1,000 years older than Christianity, which is itself around 600 years older than Islam. If religions have to grow at the cost of being more intolerant towards other religions, then I'm proud to be associated with one that will let its numbers dwindle. (Something else to keep in mind is that more disasters have befallen Jews than any other world religion.)[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"] Which is why Judaism is smaller than Islam and Christianity. They have one of the two down pat.Espada12
Errm who is intolerant to other religions? Judaism and christianity most definitely will have some tension, especially with how the believed events of jesus' crucification went down. But islam generally acknowledges all religions. I suspect jewish lack of evangelism stems from the fact they considered themselves to be the chosen people by god so basically they don't bother to associate or convert others because they do not believe them to be part of the chosen.
How much exposure do you have to Jewish people? Jewish people have no tension or animosity towards Christians. Well, I mean...not in the general sense, anyways - of course there are people whom violate the norms, but I'd say most Jewish people have no problem with Christians. And it's not that they don't convert others; it's just that those that want to convert have to come to them and demonstrate their devotion. Judaism is not a commercial, let's-see-how-many-members-we-can-get religion; it's a religion for those that actually believe the teachings of the Tanakh. Oh, and another thing: people get confused by this whole people of G-d thing. Yes, the descendants of Abraham are considered to be the people of G-d, but the interpretation is different than a biological descendant. When they say "descendant of Abraham", they mean that they're a descendant of Abraham in a spiritual sense, that they believe the writings of Abraham (the Torah) to be an absolute truth.[QUOTE="_rock_"]No, any preacher preaching about burning in hell is not preaching the real Christianity. Giving people the change to know the love of Christ. I can't speak for all Christians but if someone dosen't want to hear it I definitly not force it on them, I will just simply love them the way jesus would. But you are right, Some Christians do bible bash and preach about burning it hell and it is not right.SteveTabernacleHell is a part of the package. It's an undeniable part of the "real" Christianity.
This is wrong because there are denominations of Christianity that don't believe in hell.
Do you care to guess which branch of Christianity has shown up at my college campus on at least four different occasions without permission handing out Bibles and preaching to passer-bys that expressed no interest?[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="Espada12"]
I don't see why all of christianity is taking the rap for what I believe to be, the doings of the seven day adventist since I mostly know them to be the ones floating around door to door.
Espada12
I have no idea, but I highly doubt it was any of the big 5.
It was a local First Baptist church. I'm assuming Baptists would be among the "big five".How much exposure do you have to Jewish people? Jewish people have no tension or animosity towards Christians. Well, I mean...not in the general sense, anyways - of course there are people whom violate the norms, but I'd say most Jewish people have no problem with Christians. And it's not that they don't convert others; it's just that those that want to convert have to come to them and demonstrate their devotion. Judaism is not a commercial, let's-see-how-many-members-we-can-get religion; it's a religion for those that actually believe the teachings of the Tanakh. Oh, and another thing: people get confused by this whole people of G-d thing. Yes, the descendants of Abraham are considered to be the people of G-d, but the interpretation is different than a biological descendant. When they say "descendant of Abraham", they mean that they're a descendant of Abraham in a spiritual sense, that they believe the writings of Abraham (the Torah) to be an absolute truth.jalexbrown
I don't mean the people as a whole when it comes to tension, I mean the religions themselves will have that tension that will never go away. I know they convert others as well, but all I explained was why they don't go out to convert instead of only waiting for those to come in.
[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="jalexbrown"] Do you care to guess which branch of Christianity has shown up at my college campus on at least four different occasions without permission handing out Bibles and preaching to passer-bys that expressed no interest?jalexbrown
I have no idea, but I highly doubt it was any of the big 5.
It was a local First Baptist church. I'm assuming Baptists would be among the "big five".Yea I believe they are, but protestant is a big group of smaller churches. Generally you won't see a roman catholic or Anglican doing that. So obviously I should not have included them lol...
Hell is a part of the package. It's an undeniable part of the "real" Christianity.[QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"][QUOTE="_rock_"]No, any preacher preaching about burning in hell is not preaching the real Christianity. Giving people the change to know the love of Christ. I can't speak for all Christians but if someone dosen't want to hear it I definitly not force it on them, I will just simply love them the way jesus would. But you are right, Some Christians do bible bash and preach about burning it hell and it is not right.Espada12
This is wrong because there are denominations of Christianity that don't believe in hell.
Then they aren't Christians. Jesus spoke directly of hell. You either accept all his teachings, or none. You can't cherry pick.[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]
Do you care to guess which branch of Christianity has shown up at my college campus on at least four different occasions without permission handing out Bibles and preaching to passer-bys that expressed no interest?dragon7x2k
Showing up at a college to preach, I think they are way too late to change their minds about their beliefs, I'm not saying is impossible to change but one dude randomly appearing and telling you the word of God is not gonna make you a believer.
The first couple times they were on campus, the college basically turned a blind eye and let it go on even though the group had no prior authorization to be there, and the main campus policies (which are supposed to be in effect) state that they should have been asked to leave. On their third trip, though, there was a big conflict when a guy starting tearing up a Bible and yelling "**** Jesus". That broke out into a physical confrontation, and they've since been asked to leave as soon as they're seen by security or college officials.[QUOTE="tocool340"]Not that I don't like it, I think there's one too many threads about christians floating around..... They do it in an attempt to "save people", though they do it in a way, IMO, that is as annoying and pesky as a mosquito flying in my ear. It's unwanted, yet, they continue. Got to admire their stubbornness though because they refuse to give up. I just wish they would stop forcing kids to see their views and brainwashing people into believing that what's not explainable is the work of God. There are tons of things I can list that I dislike about christians, but those two things are the ones that really stick out to me....Espada12
I don't see why all of christianity is taking the rap for what I believe to be, the doings of the seven day adventist since I mostly know them to be the ones floating around door to door.
The ones I usually deal with are family. Family take me to church where I'm forced to sit through the most boring 2 or 3 hours of my life. I tell family religious views, they think I worship the devil and thus they have me talk to preacher. Talking to preacher is as useful as talking to a box of bricks. Preacher informs so and so then they fail as bad as the preacher himself. I had to go through this treatment during my childhood years. I never really had that many christians advertise their religion to me from the door, though the ones I have talked are extremely annoying since they really refuse to take "I don't simply believe in your God" as an answer.....[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]
How much exposure do you have to Jewish people? Jewish people have no tension or animosity towards Christians. Well, I mean...not in the general sense, anyways - of course there are people whom violate the norms, but I'd say most Jewish people have no problem with Christians. And it's not that they don't convert others; it's just that those that want to convert have to come to them and demonstrate their devotion. Judaism is not a commercial, let's-see-how-many-members-we-can-get religion; it's a religion for those that actually believe the teachings of the Tanakh. Oh, and another thing: people get confused by this whole people of G-d thing. Yes, the descendants of Abraham are considered to be the people of G-d, but the interpretation is different than a biological descendant. When they say "descendant of Abraham", they mean that they're a descendant of Abraham in a spiritual sense, that they believe the writings of Abraham (the Torah) to be an absolute truth.Espada12
I don't mean the people as a whole when it comes to tension, I mean the religions themselves will have that tension that will never go away. I know they convert others as well, but all I explained was why they don't go out to convert instead of only waiting for those to come in.
Yeah, I agree with that last part then. Street corner evangelism doesn't exactly lead to the most devout people; it tends to appeal more to those people that are religiously confused and just sort of end up going with the flow. I do think that this brand of street corner evangelism is the byproduct of too much focus on church membership as a means of making money; I think it's sad that some religions are so commercialized these days.[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]Though I'm sure they might be out there, I've never heard of a Christian denomination that believed you wouldn't go to Hell if you'd never heard about it.SteveTabernacleBut I doubt you'll find more than a very small handful willing to say they believe babies and small children who die before the age where they can hear the message of Christ and accept him are going to hell. Like the baby thing, the ones who do say it so do because it is very comforting. The thought of their God condemning people to eternal torture and suffering for being born in a remote part of the world, or being born before Rome made Christianity big, is pretty terrible. It goes against that whole "loving God" thing in a major way. The thought of God throwing babies in hell, well, that's just repulsive. (not to mention blatantly evil) Can't blame them for simply assuming God meant to say these things, but just didn't have time to say so when he was faxing the bible into peoples brains for them to write it. I mean really, if a non-believer asks "what happened to all the people who grew up in another religion and were good people but never heard the good news of Christ" and he is told "they were all sent to hell because salvation is determined by faith not works", I really doubt they would convert. So, that's why they say it. That's true, and one of the reasons I left the religion several years ago. I know where some of the fundamentalist Christians are coming from though, because that's what I was raised to believe. Basically, all question like that where God's own actions seemed to counter the morals we were taught, the discussion always turned to Isaiah 55:8-9 where it says his ways and thoughts are greater than ours. It's like, our existence is so trivial to his experience, and since he created it all, everything he does is good and bad at the same time. Sure, mankind is supposed to follow a strict path that he set out, but for his own existence, he sets the standards on everything. There is no moral compass for a being without time or consequences. There's no one to judge him. You may think what you want about him, but you can't do anything about it.
[QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"][QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]Though I'm sure they might be out there, I've never heard of a Christian denomination that believed you wouldn't go to Hell if you'd never heard about it.guynamedbillyBut I doubt you'll find more than a very small handful willing to say they believe babies and small children who die before the age where they can hear the message of Christ and accept him are going to hell. Like the baby thing, the ones who do say it so do because it is very comforting. The thought of their God condemning people to eternal torture and suffering for being born in a remote part of the world, or being born before Rome made Christianity big, is pretty terrible. It goes against that whole "loving God" thing in a major way. The thought of God throwing babies in hell, well, that's just repulsive. (not to mention blatantly evil) Can't blame them for simply assuming God meant to say these things, but just didn't have time to say so when he was faxing the bible into peoples brains for them to write it. I mean really, if a non-believer asks "what happened to all the people who grew up in another religion and were good people but never heard the good news of Christ" and he is told "they were all sent to hell because salvation is determined by faith not works", I really doubt they would convert. So, that's why they say it. That's true, and one of the reasons I left the religion several years ago. I know where some of the fundamentalist Christians are coming from though, because that's what I was raised to believe. Basically, all question like that where God's own actions seemed to counter the morals we were taught, the discussion always turned to Isaiah 55:8-9 where it says his ways and thoughts are greater than ours. It's like, our existence is so trivial to his experience, and since he created it all, everything he does is good and bad at the same time. Sure, mankind is supposed to follow a strict path that he set out, but for his own existence, he sets the standards on everything. There is no moral compass for a being without time or consequences. There's no one to judge him. You may think what you want about him, but you can't do anything about it.
Sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me.
[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"] Hell is a part of the package. It's an undeniable part of the "real" Christianity.SteveTabernacle
This is wrong because there are denominations of Christianity that don't believe in hell.
Then they aren't Christians. Jesus spoke directly of hell. You either accept all his teachings, or none. You can't cherry pick.Which is why I do not believe in organised religion. I believe in both god and jesus, but I'm not taking what they (apostles) wrote down as his word. I highly doubt god will want to condemn those who don't believe in the words of man, even when they have been good people all their life. It's seems completely contradictory to his teachings.
Which is why I do not believe in organised religion. I believe in both god and jesus, but I'm not taking what they (apostles) wrote down as his word. I highly doubt god will want to condemn those who don't believe in the words of man, even when they have been good people all their life. It's seems completely contradictory to his teachings.Espada12Then I doubt you believe in the bible either, it is riddled with contradictions.
That's true, and one of the reasons I left the religion several years ago. I know where some of the fundamentalist Christians are coming from though, because that's what I was raised to believe. Basically, all question like that where God's own actions seemed to counter the morals we were taught, the discussion always turned to Isaiah 55:8-9 where it says his ways and thoughts are greater than ours. It's like, our existence is so trivial to his experience, and since he created it all, everything he does is good and bad at the same time. Sure, mankind is supposed to follow a strict path that he set out, but for his own existence, he sets the standards on everything. There is no moral compass for a being without time or consequences. There's no one to judge him. You may think what you want about him, but you can't do anything about it.[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"] But I doubt you'll find more than a very small handful willing to say they believe babies and small children who die before the age where they can hear the message of Christ and accept him are going to hell. Like the baby thing, the ones who do say it so do because it is very comforting. The thought of their God condemning people to eternal torture and suffering for being born in a remote part of the world, or being born before Rome made Christianity big, is pretty terrible. It goes against that whole "loving God" thing in a major way. The thought of God throwing babies in hell, well, that's just repulsive. (not to mention blatantly evil) Can't blame them for simply assuming God meant to say these things, but just didn't have time to say so when he was faxing the bible into peoples brains for them to write it. I mean really, if a non-believer asks "what happened to all the people who grew up in another religion and were good people but never heard the good news of Christ" and he is told "they were all sent to hell because salvation is determined by faith not works", I really doubt they would convert. So, that's why they say it.black_cat19
Sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me.
Nobody has a gun to their head forcing them to enter into a contract with G-d. Very few believers will complain about the mitzvat, because those are actions that result in positive things - why complain about having to do things which make your life and your world a better place?[QUOTE="Espada12"]Which is why I do not believe in organised religion. I believe in both god and jesus, but I'm not taking what they (apostles) wrote down as his word. I highly doubt god will want to condemn those who don't believe in the words of man, even when they have been good people all their life. It's seems completely contradictory to his teachings.SteveTabernacleThen I doubt you believe in the bible either, it is riddled with contradictions.
I don't hence why I said I don't take their word as his word. There are so many contradictions that it's not funny, but I have my own reasons for believing in god and jesus.
Basically, all question like that where God's own actions seemed to counter the morals we were taught, the discussion always turned to Isaiah 55:8-9 where it says his ways and thoughts are greater than ours.guynamedbillyI was never able to accept that excuse either. All excuses about mysterious ways aside, throwing babies and people born in the wrong part of the world into hell is an act of pure evil. Now before anyone get's offended, I'm NOT saying the Christian God does do that, the bible doesn't comment on it. Just again showing why it's an assumption most ordinary Christians make that the doesn't do those things. Because they cannot bare the thought that he does.
Then I doubt you believe in the bible either, it is riddled with contradictions.[QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"][QUOTE="Espada12"]Which is why I do not believe in organised religion. I believe in both god and jesus, but I'm not taking what they (apostles) wrote down as his word. I highly doubt god will want to condemn those who don't believe in the words of man, even when they have been good people all their life. It's seems completely contradictory to his teachings.Espada12
I don't hence why I said I don't take their word as his word. There are so many contradictions that it's not funny, but I have my own reasons for believing in god and jesus.
Cool. Good for you man, I hope your faith helps you out in any way you need help.Then I doubt you believe in the bible either, it is riddled with contradictions.[QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"][QUOTE="Espada12"]Which is why I do not believe in organised religion. I believe in both god and jesus, but I'm not taking what they (apostles) wrote down as his word. I highly doubt god will want to condemn those who don't believe in the words of man, even when they have been good people all their life. It's seems completely contradictory to his teachings.Espada12
I don't hence why I said I don't take their word as his word. There are so many contradictions that it's not funny, but I have my own reasons for believing in god and jesus.
Might I be so bold as to ask what your reasons are? I mean, I can't see what would draw you to a belief in Jesus if not the Bible.That's like the question posed earlier: if a baby dies during birth, does it go to hell since it didn't believe in Jesus?Because you can't plead ignorant when you're being judged? I'm not sure on the exact ruling of this, but basically you can't be saved unless you've accepted Jesus as your savior, regardless of whether you were aware of God or not.
jubino
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