[QUOTE="themajormayor"]Well see it like this. Think of Abraham as his adopted forefather and him having the same adopted ancestry as you. From the religious Jews I've talked to they made it clear you're not only converting to the Jewish religion but are also absorbed into the Jewish people. Otherwise you should follow the Noahide laws. oh and they are indeed right, a convert is every bit the Jew as someone who is born a Jew in the religious sense. and funny enough , from the Rabbis Ive heard , they do say that when deciding who is a Jew and who isn't . ancestry is actually a better way to determine things than conversions. In the ethnic sense too... -_- Jews are a non-exclusive ethnic group. What? I don't understand. You mean that they don't want people to convert right?[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] yes and no. from a religious standpoint, yes, they are very much equal to Jews, and at the end of the day, thats the ultimate authority. at the same time, if someone converts to Judaism , that doesn't mean he has the same ancestry as me, so its not the same. that doesn't mean they are treated differently of course, in fact, Rabbi Akiva's parents were converts, and he was one of the most revered Rabbis in history.Darkman2007
If Israel tries to attack Iran.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] What is your ancestory?Jewish of course. What area on earth did Jewish people originate from? Israel of coursexscrapzx
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] What is your ancestory?Jewish of course. What area on earth did Jewish people originate from?xscrapzx
the area of what is today Israel/Palestine. Jews were essentially expelled from that land and scattered around the known world at the time, thats the gist of it.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Well see it like this. Think of Abraham as his adopted forefather and him having the same adopted ancestry as you. From the religious Jews I've talked to they made it clear you're not only converting to the Jewish religion but are also absorbed into the Jewish people. Otherwise you should follow the Noahide laws.oh and they are indeed right, a convert is every bit the Jew as someone who is born a Jew in the religious sense. and funny enough , from the Rabbis Ive heard , they do say that when deciding who is a Jew and who isn't . ancestry is actually a better way to determine things than conversions. In the ethnic sense too... -_- Jews are a non-exclusive ethnic group. What? I don't understand. You mean that they don't want people to convert right?themajormayor
youre right in that Orthodox Judaism discourages conversions. on the other hand, Reform Jews have no issue with it, which has led to conflicts with the Rabbinate.
What area on earth did Jewish people originate from?[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Jewish of course.Darkman2007
the area of what is today Israel/Palestine. Jews were essentially expelled from that land and scattered around the known world at the time, thats the gist of it.
You mean what is today Israel. Period. :x[QUOTE="Redinko"]Are you really trying to make the argument that the damage/destruction of a Mosque that Muslims believe the Prohept visited is not important to Muslims? I mean really, where are you going with this? Whenever a Mosque is destroyed it is deeply saddening. But for a Muslim country to intentionally destory/damage the Al-Aqsa Mosque is inconceivable. I will not say another word about it.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] as far as I remember , several of the mosques bombed in Iraq were very holy to Shias , now I know the ones who destoryed them were Sunni , but still , it shows disrespect. and again , its not about justification , its about wheter or not there is a percieved threat.Darkman2007
Okay, so how do Israelies percive a threat? Because they are being told over and over again that Ahmandinejad = Hitler I guess the Hitler card is still going strong, huh?
well like I said, he doesn't even need to touch Jerusalem , Tel Aviv is not near Jerusalem per se (its about a 60 minute drive), and there are plenty of other cities which are nowhere near it. Israelies percieve Iran to be genocidal pretty much , and honestly, you can't blame us either, last time we were told "don't worry, hes just bluffing" we know what happened.Israelies percieve Iran to be genocidal because Iran has commited genocide on whom?? This is like starting a bar fight and saying, "it was justifyed in hitting him first because I percieved he was a threat based on absolutly nothing."The argument, "he is just bluffing" would be agreat one if Iran ever stated that they wanted to kill all Jews.Didn't Hitler start the holocaust within Germany first? So where is the Jewish genocide in Iran? Oh wait sorry, the WWII reverence is only used when it is convenient.
Anyway that is all I wanted to say. I just want to be clear that I am not an enemy of Israel but someone deeply concerned with that actions it takes.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]
[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] What area on earth did Jewish people originate from?themajormayor
the area of what is today Israel/Palestine. Jews were essentially expelled from that land and scattered around the known world at the time, thats the gist of it.
You mean what is today Israel. Period. :x the region has had a bunch of names, I could call it Judah and I wouldn't be wrong. the name Israel is the most correct term though.In the ethnic sense too... -_- Jews are a non-exclusive ethnic group. What? I don't understand. You mean that they don't want people to convert right?[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] oh and they are indeed right, a convert is every bit the Jew as someone who is born a Jew in the religious sense. and funny enough , from the Rabbis Ive heard , they do say that when deciding who is a Jew and who isn't . ancestry is actually a better way to determine things than conversions.Darkman2007
youre right in that Orthodox Judaism discourages conversions. on the other hand, Reform Jews have no issue with it, which has led to conflicts with the Rabbinate.
Really? Is i t also a tough program to convert that way?[QUOTE="themajormayor"]You mean what is today Israel. Period. :x the region has had a bunch of names, I could call it Judah and I wouldn't be wrong. the name Israel is the most correct term though. Palestine is the Roman name. Israel is the Jewish[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]
the area of what is today Israel/Palestine. Jews were essentially expelled from that land and scattered around the known world at the time, thats the gist of it.
Darkman2007
well like I said, he doesn't even need to touch Jerusalem , Tel Aviv is not near Jerusalem per se (its about a 60 minute drive), and there are plenty of other cities which are nowhere near it. Israelies percieve Iran to be genocidal pretty much , and honestly, you can't blame us either, last time we were told "don't worry, hes just bluffing" we know what happened.Israelies percieve Iran to be genocidal because Iran has commited genocide on whom?? This is like starting a bar fight and saying, "it was justifyed in hitting him first because I percieved he was a threat based on absolutly nothing."[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Redinko"]Are you really trying to make the argument that the damage/destruction of a Mosque that Muslims believe the Prohept visited is not important to Muslims? I mean really, where are you going with this? Whenever a Mosque is destroyed it is deeply saddening. But for a Muslim country to intentionally destory/damage the Al-Aqsa Mosque is inconceivable. I will not say another word about it.
Okay, so how do Israelies percive a threat? Because they are being told over and over again that Ahmandinejad = Hitler I guess the Hitler card is still going strong, huh?
Redinko
The argument, "he is just bluffing" would be agreat one if Iran ever stated that they wanted to kill all Jews.Didn't Hitler start the holocaust within Germany first? So where is the Jewish genocide in Iran? Oh wait sorry, the WWII reverence is only used when it is convenient.
Anyway that is all I wanted to say. I just want to be clear that I am not an enemy of Israel but someone deeply concerned with that actions it takes.
Iran has said on many occasions that it wants to destory Israel , its not uncommon for it, that is a threat as far as I see it. as for genocide, like I said, they have done their fair share of Jew killing and hating in history.
What area on earth did Jewish people originate from?[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Jewish of course.Darkman2007
the area of what is today Israel/Palestine. Jews were essentially expelled from that land and scattered around the known world at the time, thats the gist of it.
Ok, so i guess where I'm going with this there are three main types of races of Human Beings. Mainly it is see as white, black, and asian. I guess for some reason they see Middle Eastern people as caucasion (White). Therefore you are a white person.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] You mean what is today Israel. Period. :xthe region has had a bunch of names, I could call it Judah and I wouldn't be wrong. the name Israel is the most correct term though. Palestine is the Roman name. Israel is the Jewishthemajormayor
actually, Judea (or Ioudia in Latin) was the Roman name, until the changed it to insult the Jews in 135.
well like I said, he doesn't even need to touch Jerusalem , Tel Aviv is not near Jerusalem per se (its about a 60 minute drive), and there are plenty of other cities which are nowhere near it. Israelies percieve Iran to be genocidal pretty much , and honestly, you can't blame us either, last time we were told "don't worry, hes just bluffing" we know what happened.Israelies percieve Iran to be genocidal because Iran has commited genocide on whom?? This is like starting a bar fight and saying, "it was justifyed in hitting him first because I percieved he was a threat based on absolutly nothing."[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Redinko"]Are you really trying to make the argument that the damage/destruction of a Mosque that Muslims believe the Prohept visited is not important to Muslims? I mean really, where are you going with this? Whenever a Mosque is destroyed it is deeply saddening. But for a Muslim country to intentionally destory/damage the Al-Aqsa Mosque is inconceivable. I will not say another word about it.
Okay, so how do Israelies percive a threat? Because they are being told over and over again that Ahmandinejad = Hitler I guess the Hitler card is still going strong, huh?
Redinko
The argument, "he is just bluffing" would be agreat one if Iran ever stated that they wanted to kill all Jews.Didn't Hitler start the holocaust within Germany first? So where is the Jewish genocide in Iran? Oh wait sorry, the WWII reverence is only used when it is convenient.
Anyway that is all I wanted to say. I just want to be clear that I am not an enemy of Israel but someone deeply concerned with that actions it takes.
On Bahais for example. And Iran is practically cleansed of Jews.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] What area on earth did Jewish people originate from?xscrapzx
the area of what is today Israel/Palestine. Jews were essentially expelled from that land and scattered around the known world at the time, thats the gist of it.
Ok, so i guess where I'm going with this there are three main types of races of Human Beings. Mainly it is see as white, black, and asian. I guess for some reason they see Middle Eastern people as caucasion (White). Therefore you are a white person. if they think Im white , so be it, thats just defenitions.Palestine is the Roman name. Israel is the Jewish[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] the region has had a bunch of names, I could call it Judah and I wouldn't be wrong. the name Israel is the most correct term though.Darkman2007
actually, Judea (or Ioudia in Latin) was the Roman name, until the changed it to insult the Jews in 135.
That name was in use long before the Romans came. Though not for all of Israel only the area surrounding Jerusalem. Romans then called it Provinca Judea (or Ioudia then) IIRC[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"]Ok, so i guess where I'm going with this there are three main types of races of Human Beings. Mainly it is see as white, black, and asian. I guess for some reason they see Middle Eastern people as caucasion (White). Therefore you are a white person. if they think Im white , so be it, thats just defenitions. Its not definitions! Its facts! You are considered Asian because you have different physical traits than that ofa white person, same as a black person. The Jewish people are not a different species of human being.the area of what is today Israel/Palestine. Jews were essentially expelled from that land and scattered around the known world at the time, thats the gist of it.
Darkman2007
if they think Im white , so be it, thats just defenitions. Its not definitions! Its facts! You are considered Asian because you have different physical traits than that ofa white person, same as a black person. The Jewish people are not a different species of human being. no , but most share a common ancestry, and that makes an ethnicity, youre just thinking in racial terms.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Ok, so i guess where I'm going with this there are three main types of races of Human Beings. Mainly it is see as white, black, and asian. I guess for some reason they see Middle Eastern people as caucasion (White). Therefore you are a white person. xscrapzx
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]
[QUOTE="themajormayor"] Palestine is the Roman name. Israel is the Jewishthemajormayor
actually, Judea (or Ioudia in Latin) was the Roman name, until the changed it to insult the Jews in 135.
That name was in use long before the Romans came. Though not for all of Israel only the area surrounding Jerusalem. Romans then called it Provinca Judea (or Ioudia then) IIRC well, the Kingdom of Judea was much bigger than than that, but you are right in that initially, the Romans reduced Judea to the area around Jerusalem. by the time of the revolts though , the Gallilee was also part of Judea.if they think Im white , so be it, thats just defenitions. Its not definitions! Its facts! You are considered Asian because you have different physical traits than that ofa white person, same as a black person. The Jewish people are not a different species of human being. As we've said all along it's a question of an ethnicity. That means common history, culture, language etc etc. Not necessarily the same genes.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Ok, so i guess where I'm going with this there are three main types of races of Human Beings. Mainly it is see as white, black, and asian. I guess for some reason they see Middle Eastern people as caucasion (White). Therefore you are a white person. xscrapzx
if they think Im white , so be it, thats just defenitions.Darkman2007Its not definitions! Its facts! You are considered Asian because you have different physical traits than that ofa white person, same as a black person. The Jewish people are not a different species of human being. no , but they all share ancestry, and that makes an ethnicity, youre just thinking in racial terms. No KIDDING, YOU DONT' SAY? Thats exactly what I have been trying to tell you for the past hour! My goodness. I think at one point I did say ethnic, which I take back because that would be false, but my major premise has been race the entire time. Sorry if that is what confused you.
[QUOTE="themajormayor"]That name was in use long before the Romans came. Though not for all of Israel only the area surrounding Jerusalem. Romans then called it Provinca Judea (or Ioudia then) IIRC well, the Kingdom of Judea was much bigger than than that, but you are right in that initially, the Romans reduced Judea to the area around Jerusalem. by the time of the revolts though , the Gallilee was also part of Judea. Oh so that was how it was. I always thought Israel was divided into roughly three parts geographically Judea, Samaria and the Galilee. And then the Romans came an renamed ALL to the province of Judea. But it was a long time I ago I read about this so you're probably right. Yes it's true cause Jesus was from Galilee and it was not under roman control to the same extent right?[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]
actually, Judea (or Ioudia in Latin) was the Roman name, until the changed it to insult the Jews in 135.
Darkman2007
if they think Im white , so be it, thats just defenitions.Darkman2007Its not definitions! Its facts! You are considered Asian because you have different physical traits than that ofa white person, same as a black person. The Jewish people are not a different species of human being. As we've said all along it's a question of an ethnicity. That means common history, culture, language etc etc. Not necessarily the same genes. Ya I know, I understand this, I just think he wasn't understanding me, or I confused him because I did use the word ethnicity at one point, but you were aware that I was using the term race.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Its not definitions! Its facts! You are considered Asian because you have different physical traits than that ofa white person, same as a black person. The Jewish people are not a different species of human being.no , but they all share ancestry, and that makes an ethnicity, youre just thinking in racial terms. No KIDDING, YOU DONT' SAY? Thats exactly what I have been trying to tell you for the past hour! My goodness. I think at one point I did say ethnic, which I take back because that would be false, but my major premise has been race the entire time. Sorry if that is what confused you.xscrapzx
thing is , it is ethinc, which includes ancestry, something you denied.
again , one can deny Jewish history, but its not much use.
Israel attacking Iran makes no sense. In essence they are pretty much surrounded by countries who aren't their closest friends. They wouldn't last five minutes. So it's all talk but if it did come to Israel sending planes to Iran I wouldn't be surprised if that was the outcome.
[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Its not definitions! Its facts! You are considered Asian because you have different physical traits than that ofa white person, same as a black person. The Jewish people are not a different species of human being.As we've said all along it's a question of an ethnicity. That means common history, culture, language etc etc. Not necessarily the same genes. Ya I know, I understand this, I just think he wasn't understanding me, or I confused him because I did use the word ethnicity at one point, but you were aware that I was using the term race. Oh ok sorry my mistake.xscrapzx
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] That name was in use long before the Romans came. Though not for all of Israel only the area surrounding Jerusalem. Romans then called it Provinca Judea (or Ioudia then) IIRCwell, the Kingdom of Judea was much bigger than than that, but you are right in that initially, the Romans reduced Judea to the area around Jerusalem. by the time of the revolts though , the Gallilee was also part of Judea. Oh so that was how it was. I always thought Israel was divided into roughly three parts geographically Judea, Samaria and the Galilee. And then the Romans came an renamed ALL to the province of Judea. But it was a long time I ago I read about this so you're probably right. Yes it's true cause Jesus was from Galilee and it was not under roman control to the same extent right?themajormayor
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasmonean_Kingdom
not a big fan of Wiki, but should help you understand.
No KIDDING, YOU DONT' SAY? Thats exactly what I have been trying to tell you for the past hour! My goodness. I think at one point I did say ethnic, which I take back because that would be false, but my major premise has been race the entire time. Sorry if that is what confused you.[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] no , but they all share ancestry, and that makes an ethnicity, youre just thinking in racial terms.Darkman2007
thing is , it is ethinc, which includes ancestry, something you denied.
again , one can deny Jewish history, but its not much use.
If I did at one point then my apologies, because that is not where I wanted to go. I was strictly meaning in the term of race, white, black, asian etc.Oh so that was how it was. I always thought Israel was divided into roughly three parts geographically Judea, Samaria and the Galilee. And then the Romans came an renamed ALL to the province of Judea. But it was a long time I ago I read about this so you're probably right. Yes it's true cause Jesus was from Galilee and it was not under roman control to the same extent right?[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] well, the Kingdom of Judea was much bigger than than that, but you are right in that initially, the Romans reduced Judea to the area around Jerusalem. by the time of the revolts though , the Gallilee was also part of Judea.Darkman2007
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasmonean_Kingdom
not a big fan of Wiki, but should help you understand.
Thanks I'll give it a read[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] No KIDDING, YOU DONT' SAY? Thats exactly what I have been trying to tell you for the past hour! My goodness. I think at one point I did say ethnic, which I take back because that would be false, but my major premise has been race the entire time. Sorry if that is what confused you.xscrapzx
thing is , it is ethinc, which includes ancestry, something you denied.
again , one can deny Jewish history, but its not much use.
If I did at one point then my apologies, because that is not where I wanted to go. I was strictly meaning in the term of race, white, black, asian etc. Ok so now when we covered ethnicity. What's your definition of race?[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] No KIDDING, YOU DONT' SAY? Thats exactly what I have been trying to tell you for the past hour! My goodness. I think at one point I did say ethnic, which I take back because that would be false, but my major premise has been race the entire time. Sorry if that is what confused you.xscrapzx
thing is , it is ethinc, which includes ancestry, something you denied.
again , one can deny Jewish history, but its not much use.
If I did at one point then my apologies, because that is not where I wanted to go. I was strictly meaning in the term of race, white, black, asian etc. so the conclusion is no , Judaism is not a race, since one can indeed convert from a variety of races to Judaism. yes , most Jews are decended from the same ethnic group , and do share a common ancestry, although that is not limiting as such in terms of conversions. that was my point.
Can you imagine if they had another draft if there was another WW?
F*ck that, man.
[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"]If I did at one point then my apologies, because that is not where I wanted to go. I was strictly meaning in the term of race, white, black, asian etc. Ok so now when we covered ethnicity. What's your definition of race? Ehhh scratch that. Don't wanna get into that too...thing is , it is ethinc, which includes ancestry, something you denied.
again , one can deny Jewish history, but its not much use.
themajormayor
yup for sure. This is not the first time drtrafalgar law shows what a hateful and idiotic person he/she is Hateful? What is "hateful" about denouncing a regime/tyranny? I have nothing against jews, it's the current and past zionist governments I've had problems with. Oh wait, I forgot...critisizing jews or jew-related issues makes me a hater or anti-semite. How can you approve of the zionist government building more estabilishments on palestinian grounds and driving the former owners out? Palestinians don't even have control over their own water supplies ffs and powers goes out regularily. Palestinians are COMPLETELY out of touch with the external world because of the walls and checkpoints. Has humanity not learned from the berlin wall? The people over there want a solution, both sides. The zionists have killed dozens of MY people on the turkish flotilla on INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Why does the whole world not even bat an eye at what Israel is doing? If you believe in a god like I do, in your case hashem (I think), you also believe we all be judged for our crimes and sins. Do you really believe acting like this will put you in God's grace?[QUOTE="Xx_Socrates_xX"]^^ trollthemajormayor
[QUOTE="themajormayor"]yup for sure. This is not the first time drtrafalgar law shows what a hateful and idiotic person he/she is Hateful? What is "hateful" about denouncing a regime/tyranny? I have nothing against jews, it's the current and past zionist governments I've had problems with. Oh wait, I forgot...critisizing jews or jew-related issues makes me a hater or anti-semite. How can you approve of the zionist government building more estabilishments on palestinian grounds and driving the former owners out? Palestinians don't even have control over their own water supplies ffs and powers goes out regularily. Palestinians are COMPLETELY out of touch with the external world because of the walls and checkpoints. Has humanity not learned from the berlin wall? The people over there want a solution, both sides. The zionists have killed dozens of MY people on the turkish flotilla on INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Why does the whole world not even bat an eye at what Israel is doing? If you believe in a god like I do, in your case hashem (I think), you also believe we all be judged for our crimes and sins. Do you really believe acting like this will put you in God's grace? there is no such thing as "zionist" government. although you'er not abrupt about it, you anti-antisemitism is frankly getting very apparent[QUOTE="Xx_Socrates_xX"]^^ trollDrTrafalgarLaw
[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="LastRambo341"]Israel just loves war. Look at the mass-murder it committed, its just like/or even worse than the Holocaust thingLastRambo341
wtf is this a joke??
Where have you been for the past 40 years or so? Of course your media wouldn't show it, just look at what Israel does to the PalestiniansAnd oh, the poor innocent Palestinians haven't done anything right? :roll:
[QUOTE="themajormayor"]yup for sure. This is not the first time drtrafalgar law shows what a hateful and idiotic person he/she is Hateful? What is "hateful" about denouncing a regime/tyranny? I have nothing against jews, it's the current and past zionist governments I've had problems with. Oh wait, I forgot...critisizing jews or jew-related issues makes me a hater or anti-semite. How can you approve of the zionist government building more estabilishments on palestinian grounds and driving the former owners out? Palestinians don't even have control over their own water supplies ffs and powers goes out regularily. Palestinians are COMPLETELY out of touch with the external world because of the walls and checkpoints. Has humanity not learned from the berlin wall? The people over there want a solution, both sides. The zionists have killed dozens of MY people on the turkish flotilla on INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Why does the whole world not even bat an eye at what Israel is doing? If you believe in a god like I do, in your case hashem (I think), you also believe we all be judged for our crimes and sins. Do you really believe acting like this will put you in God's grace?[QUOTE="Xx_Socrates_xX"]^^ trollDrTrafalgarLaw
You're comparing it with the holocaust. Accusing Israel of something like that is indeed anti-semitic. Either you're making the holocaust much much less than what is is. Or israel much much much worse than what it is.
In the majority of cases the "establishments" are not on palestinian grounds and no one is driven out. In the few cases where this happens (if at all) I would of course be against it if it's on palestinian privately owned land.
Do you know why the "wall" is there in the first place? That "wall" has saved hundreds if not thousands of lives on both sides. And have you been there? I have and they're far from "out of touch with the external world". You can't compare it with the Berlin wall. The berlin wall was there to keep people from escaping from the communist regime whereas this "wall" is to keep terrorrists outside of Israel. And not surprisingly terrorist attacks has decreased with like 95% since its construction.
What the hell are you talking about? "Not bating an eye"?? Ever heard about something called the UN??
And why are you bringing this up without its context? First of all I really don't care if it's international waters or not. The flotilla was headed for Gaza so it's only a mere formality where it is intercepted. And it would have been technically impossible to intercept it earlier. Secondly Israel offered to take them to Ashdod to get the "supplies" into Gaza by land. But no they wanted to break the blockade which really is an act of war.
I'm not an adherent of Judaism I'm a Panendeist. So yes I do believe in God but not in the exact same way as you I would pressume. I don't know what to think about the afterlife. But if would think about it it would either be reincarnation getting closer and closer to God or a form of purgatory where you're being purified until you're ready for God. In any case yes I do indeed think Israel's actions in most cases are justified and I'll stand up for what I believe in. I try to be as good person as possible and think morally. If you dissagree that's your problem. I've read alot about this conlifct and is knowledgable enough to make my own judgement.
Though fyi if I was adherent of Judaism I can tell you it focuses alot more on living a good life now and not on the afterlife so much.
[QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] yup for sure. This is not the first time drtrafalgar law shows what a hateful and idiotic person he/she isHateful? What is "hateful" about denouncing a regime/tyranny? I have nothing against jews, it's the current and past zionist governments I've had problems with. Oh wait, I forgot...critisizing jews or jew-related issues makes me a hater or anti-semite. How can you approve of the zionist government building more estabilishments on palestinian grounds and driving the former owners out? Palestinians don't even have control over their own water supplies ffs and powers goes out regularily. Palestinians are COMPLETELY out of touch with the external world because of the walls and checkpoints. Has humanity not learned from the berlin wall? The people over there want a solution, both sides. The zionists have killed dozens of MY people on the turkish flotilla on INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Why does the whole world not even bat an eye at what Israel is doing? If you believe in a god like I do, in your case hashem (I think), you also believe we all be judged for our crimes and sins. Do you really believe acting like this will put you in God's grace? there is no such thing as "zionist" government. although you'er not abrupt about it, you anti-antisemitism is frankly getting very apparent Are you sure? What about ZOG then?? :lol:kingkong0124
Mark my words, barring a major nuclear event in Iran, if Israel attacks Iran this yearit will be in August, September or October. That is the only time they can force Obama to unconditionally support them. Thecurrent Isreali leadership respects America's interests only so far as they can use us.
[QUOTE="themajormayor"]yup for sure. This is not the first time drtrafalgar law shows what a hateful and idiotic person he/she is Hateful? What is "hateful" about denouncing a regime/tyranny? I have nothing against jews, it's the current and past zionist governments I've had problems with. Oh wait, I forgot...critisizing jews or jew-related issues makes me a hater or anti-semite. How can you approve of the zionist government building more estabilishments on palestinian grounds and driving the former owners out? Palestinians don't even have control over their own water supplies ffs and powers goes out regularily. Palestinians are COMPLETELY out of touch with the external world because of the walls and checkpoints. Has humanity not learned from the berlin wall? The people over there want a solution, both sides. The zionists have killed dozens of MY people on the turkish flotilla on INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Why does the whole world not even bat an eye at what Israel is doing? If you believe in a god like I do, in your case hashem (I think), you also believe we all be judged for our crimes and sins. Do you really believe acting like this will put you in God's grace? I'm going to bed now btw so you won't get my response in like 14 hours[QUOTE="Xx_Socrates_xX"]^^ trollDrTrafalgarLaw
If Israel attacked Iran, they would be doing so alone. The USA has been working all of its politics to keep Israel from doing such a thing. We wouldn't intervene nor help them in any way. If their attack results in them getting their asses beat, so be it.
Wasdie
Nothing like bringing up politics to make my biggest thread ever. :P
Anyway, I think if a conflict arose between Israel and Iran the US would have to intervene somehow. I mean, they're our main ally in the Middle East, I don't think there's any way we would sit back on our laurels and let Iran kick them to the ground. We would be forced to act.
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
If Israel attacked Iran, they would be doing so alone. The USA has been working all of its politics to keep Israel from doing such a thing. We wouldn't intervene nor help them in any way. If their attack results in them getting their asses beat, so be it.
MirkoS77
Nothing like bringing up politics to make my biggest thread ever. :P
Anyway, I think if a conflict arose between Israel and Iran the US would have to intervene somehow. I mean, they're our main ally in the Middle East, I don't think there's any way we would sit back on our laurels and let Iran kick them to the ground. We would be forced to act.
Depends on who starts winning :PHateful? What is "hateful" about denouncing a regime/tyranny? I have nothing against jews, it's the current and past zionist governments I've had problems with. Oh wait, I forgot...critisizing jews or jew-related issues makes me a hater or anti-semite. How can you approve of the zionist government building more estabilishments on palestinian grounds and driving the former owners out? Palestinians don't even have control over their own water supplies ffs and powers goes out regularily. Palestinians are COMPLETELY out of touch with the external world because of the walls and checkpoints. Has humanity not learned from the berlin wall? The people over there want a solution, both sides. The zionists have killed dozens of MY people on the turkish flotilla on INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Why does the whole world not even bat an eye at what Israel is doing? If you believe in a god like I do, in your case hashem (I think), you also believe we all be judged for our crimes and sins. Do you really believe acting like this will put you in God's grace?[QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] yup for sure. This is not the first time drtrafalgar law shows what a hateful and idiotic person he/she is
themajormayor
You're comparing it with the holocaust. Accusing Israel of something like that is indeed anti-semitic. Either you're making the holocaust much much less than what is is. Or israel much much much worse than what it is.
In the majority of cases the "establishments" are not on palestinian grounds and no one is driven out. In the few cases where this happens (if at all) I would of course be against it if it's on palestinian privately owned land.
Do you know why the "wall" is there in the first place? That "wall" has saved hundreds if not thousands of lives on both sides. And have you been there? I have and they're far from "out of touch with the external world". You can't compare it with the Berlin wall. The berlin wall was there to keep people from escaping from the communist regime whereas this "wall" is to keep terrorrists outside of Israel. And not surprisingly terrorist attacks has decreased with like 95% since its construction.
What the hell are you talking about? "Not bating an eye"?? Ever heard about something called the UN??
And why are you bringing this up without its context? First of all I really don't care if it's international waters or not. The flotilla was headed for Gaza so it's only a mere formality where it is intercepted. And it would have been technically impossible to intercept it earlier. Secondly Israel offered to take them to Ashdod to get the "supplies" into Gaza by land. But no they wanted to break the blockade which really is an act of war.
I'm not an adherent of Judaism I'm a Panendeist. So yes I do believe in God but not in the exact same way as you I would pressume. I don't know what to think about the afterlife. But if would think about it it would either be reincarnation getting closer and closer to God or a form of purgatory where you're being purified until you're ready for God. In any case yes I do indeed think Israel's actions in most cases are justified and I'll stand up for what I believe in. I try to be as good person as possible and think morally. If you dissagree that's your problem. I've read alot about this conlifct and is knowledgable enough to make my own judgement.
Though fyi if I was adherent of Judaism I can tell you it focuses alot more on living a good life now and not on the afterlife so much.
I'm not comparing it to the holocaust, that would be disgraceful to the ones that went through the holocaust. The person comparing it to the holocaust was not me but someone that got quoted. That being said, no...I don't approve of Israeli government and don't think their actions are justified. Jews and muslims were living in peace yeaaaars before jews started to claim a state of their own. And these are not my words, these come from documentaries, taken from interviews with both the jews and muslims/palestinians. The extremist zionists are at power now.The closest we ever got to peace there was the Camp David agreements with Sharon, Clinton and Arafat...but the agreement was rejected because it still didn't grant palestinians control over their own waterpipelines and water supplies. We won't ever get peace over there, why do you think people vote or had voted for HAMAS? If you have nothing to lose, which is their current situation right now thanks to Israeli government...you just vote for the "destroy/demolish all" option...you will fight to get your freedom back. Israeli goverment is not willing to make any amends and is not showing any sign of wanting peace. Their goals are clear, create a bigger army and bigger amount of people to take all of Palestinia for themselves, not concerned with global opinion or anything.
Israel has COVERTLY been attacking and OWNING Iran for years now. Although they deny any responsibility;
1.Ali Reza Asgari, a general in Iran's Revolutionary Guard, an elite wing of the military charged with defending the regime, and a former deputy defence minister. Asgari, who had reportedly been in Turkey to meet a European arms dealer, was thought to be a treasure trove of information for Western intelligence agencies and Mossad.
2. In January 2010, Massoud Ali Mohammadi was killed by a bomb blast outside his home in Tehran, the first of several Iranian nuclear scientists to die in mysterious circumstances.
3. 2010, the world first heard about a computer virus called Stuxnet. While it initially spread through Microsoft Windows, the worm specifically targeted Siemens software and equipment, which is the basis of Iran's uranium-enrichment infrastructure. Thought by computer security experts to have been created by Israeli or U.S. programmers, Stuxnet did significant damage to Iran's nuclear capabilities. "Stuxnet was successful, in a short-term sense, by stalling Iran's program for a year and resulting in at least 1,000 gas centrifuges being effectively destroyed," says Paul Brannan, senior analyst at the Institute for Science and International Security in Washington, D.C.
What was Irans reply ? Some guy blowing his leg off in thailand lol.
Israel doesn't have to do anything and still appear victorious.
Do nothing and allow Iran to posture and make threats, rest of the world regards their leaders at nutjobs (which they already do)
Allow Iran to attack, and the retaliatory strike will wipe Iran from the face of the planet. I don't think their leadership fully comprehends what will happen when the rest of the world decides they don't like their leaders anymore. Look at whats happened most recently.
[QUOTE="themajormayor"]yup for sure. This is not the first time drtrafalgar law shows what a hateful and idiotic person he/she is Hateful? What is "hateful" about denouncing a regime/tyranny? I have nothing against jews, it's the current and past zionist governments I've had problems with. Oh wait, I forgot...critisizing jews or jew-related issues makes me a hater or anti-semite. How can you approve of the zionist government building more estabilishments on palestinian grounds and driving the former owners out? Palestinians don't even have control over their own water supplies ffs and powers goes out regularily. Palestinians are COMPLETELY out of touch with the external world because of the walls and checkpoints. Has humanity not learned from the berlin wall? The people over there want a solution, both sides. The zionists have killed dozens of MY people on the turkish flotilla on INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Why does the whole world not even bat an eye at what Israel is doing? If you believe in a god like I do, in your case hashem (I think), you also believe we all be judged for our crimes and sins. Do you really believe acting like this will put you in God's grace?[QUOTE="Xx_Socrates_xX"]^^ trollDrTrafalgarLaw
dozens? if I remember correctly it was 9 of them, and frankly, let it be a lesson to those people , don't interfere in the affairs of someone else, nobody expects to walk into a den of lions and not get eaten, and that flotila was an attempt to provoke, they could have used Egypt to deliver goods, heck Israel offered them a chance to deliver the goods to Ashdod ,where they would have been taken into Gaza.
instead they wanted a fight and got one, Im sorry to ruin it for you, but the era when Jews are Dhimmi , and where you can attack them without response is over.
and funny how you talk about god, in Judaism , that entire area is Jewish land, promised by God to the Jews, so if anything, taking over the land is doing the work of God, not otherwise.
and funny how you talk about how the Muslims lived in peace before the "zionists" tried to create a state, there was a Jewish state in the land of Israel , before Islam (or Christianity for that matter) ever existed, before those 2 religions were born and defiled Jewish holy sites, so don't talk to me about who lived in peace where, for the simple reason that my ancestors controlled Jerusalem , while your ancestors (assuming youre Turkish) lived in central asia, and had no knowledge of monotheism , or frankly, civilization.
oh and just for the record, no , Jews did not live in peace with Muslims, they lived as subjugated Dhimmis, and while I thank you for the years of Dhimmi laws, occasional massacres and general sense of inferiority, I think its about time the Jews reestablish their state.
we both know you don't care one bit about the Palestinians (your people were quite happy to rule them , never giving a state, or to any other Arab), the reason youre upset is because the Jews are more powerful , that annoys you, and we both know it.
I was talking to my dad, and he's convinced that if Israel sends planes to bomb sites in Iran, Obama will order our planes to shoot them down before they can reach their targets in the attempt to avert the starting of a third world war. I told him that he's crazy, that we'd never all of a sudden sh*t all over the alliance we've held with them for decades and decades. But now pondering it over I don't quite know what to think. You think this is possible or is he just nuts? My dad dislikes Obama, but this is ridiculous. MirkoS77uhm wouldnt that mean a war between the US and israel, which could pretty much turn into WW3?
[QUOTE="themajormayor"]
[QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"] Hateful? What is "hateful" about denouncing a regime/tyranny? I have nothing against jews, it's the current and past zionist governments I've had problems with. Oh wait, I forgot...critisizing jews or jew-related issues makes me a hater or anti-semite. How can you approve of the zionist government building more estabilishments on palestinian grounds and driving the former owners out? Palestinians don't even have control over their own water supplies ffs and powers goes out regularily. Palestinians are COMPLETELY out of touch with the external world because of the walls and checkpoints. Has humanity not learned from the berlin wall? The people over there want a solution, both sides. The zionists have killed dozens of MY people on the turkish flotilla on INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Why does the whole world not even bat an eye at what Israel is doing? If you believe in a god like I do, in your case hashem (I think), you also believe we all be judged for our crimes and sins. Do you really believe acting like this will put you in God's grace?DrTrafalgarLaw
You're comparing it with the holocaust. Accusing Israel of something like that is indeed anti-semitic. Either you're making the holocaust much much less than what is is. Or israel much much much worse than what it is.
In the majority of cases the "establishments" are not on palestinian grounds and no one is driven out. In the few cases where this happens (if at all) I would of course be against it if it's on palestinian privately owned land.
Do you know why the "wall" is there in the first place? That "wall" has saved hundreds if not thousands of lives on both sides. And have you been there? I have and they're far from "out of touch with the external world". You can't compare it with the Berlin wall. The berlin wall was there to keep people from escaping from the communist regime whereas this "wall" is to keep terrorrists outside of Israel. And not surprisingly terrorist attacks has decreased with like 95% since its construction.
What the hell are you talking about? "Not bating an eye"?? Ever heard about something called the UN??
And why are you bringing this up without its context? First of all I really don't care if it's international waters or not. The flotilla was headed for Gaza so it's only a mere formality where it is intercepted. And it would have been technically impossible to intercept it earlier. Secondly Israel offered to take them to Ashdod to get the "supplies" into Gaza by land. But no they wanted to break the blockade which really is an act of war.
I'm not an adherent of Judaism I'm a Panendeist. So yes I do believe in God but not in the exact same way as you I would pressume. I don't know what to think about the afterlife. But if would think about it it would either be reincarnation getting closer and closer to God or a form of purgatory where you're being purified until you're ready for God. In any case yes I do indeed think Israel's actions in most cases are justified and I'll stand up for what I believe in. I try to be as good person as possible and think morally. If you dissagree that's your problem. I've read alot about this conlifct and is knowledgable enough to make my own judgement.
Though fyi if I was adherent of Judaism I can tell you it focuses alot more on living a good life now and not on the afterlife so much.
I'm not comparing it to the holocaust, that would be disgraceful to the ones that went through the holocaust. The person comparing it to the holocaust was not me but someone that got quoted. That being said, no...I don't approve of Israeli government and don't think their actions are justified. Jews and muslims were living in peace yeaaaars before jews started to claim a state of their own. And these are not my words, these come from documentaries, taken from interviews with both the jews and muslims/palestinians. The extremist zionists are at power now.The closest we ever got to peace there was the Camp David agreements with Sharon, Clinton and Arafat...but the agreement was rejected because it still didn't grant palestinians control over their own waterpipelines and water supplies. We won't ever get peace over there, why do you think people vote or had voted for HAMAS? If you have nothing to lose, which is their current situation right now thanks to Israeli government...you just vote for the "destroy/demolish all" option...you will fight to get your freedom back. Israeli goverment is not willing to make any amends and is not showing any sign of wanting peace. Their goals are clear, create a bigger army and bigger amount of people to take all of Palestinia for themselves, not concerned with global opinion or anything.
Idiot: Israel just loves war. Look at the mass-murder it committed, its just like/or even worse than the Holocaust thing.
Me: wtf is this a joke??
You:No, read up on what the Palestinians have to endure because of Zionist tyranny.
First of all that's not true:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Hebron_pogrom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Safed_pogrom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_Hebron_pogrom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_Safed_pogrom
And Jews have been living as dhimmis all the time under muslim rule. Anyway what you're saying is that Jews shouldn't have claimed a state of their own (like every other people) because it upsets Arabs & Muslims?? Jews should be subjects under someone else's rule and not being able to practice self-determination because it upsets them?? So this is an issue the Arabs & Muslims have with Jews not the other way around. Jews just wanted the basic right of self-determination and not be subjects of someone else's rule.
Actually it was Clinton, Arafat & BARAK. And no the failure had nothing to do with water. The Palestinians simply wouldn't make enough concessions and wanter more territory and refugees. Most people including clinton blamed this mostly on Arafat.
Are you kidding me?? Not wanting peace?? It's Mahmoud Abbas that does everything to avoid peace talks! This is what Netanyahu said:"Now we're in the same city, we're in the same building, so let's meet here today in the United Nations," but of course Abbas refused.
Take all of "palestinia" for themselves? Listen they already had all of the West Bank & Gaza over 40 years ago. Since then they'd only ceded more and more of these territories. For example after 2005 they control 0% of Gaza. So no that is not their goal. And they're not "creating a bigger army" in the sense you mean it either. The military consumes about 7% of GDP compared to 24%, 30 years ago. So in 30 years the army has gotten less and less money.
Back from a 3-day suspension, and I found some interesting stuff….stuff that have been known for a long time but Westerners unfortunately don't have the access to the truth
People and the Land (Documentary that Israel tried to Block): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR3vuEHKAHQ&list=LLvgwsMzUw0UlFml4nx5wc7g&index=9&feature=plpp_video
Media Bias in Coverage of the Genocide in Gaza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0jSKX2YagQ&list=LLvgwsMzUw0UlFml4nx5wc7g&index=8&feature=plpp_video
A Censored Israeli Footage Exposed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ze5muXJRaw&list=LLvgwsMzUw0UlFml4nx5wc7g&index=7&feature=plpp_video Deny them then you're blind
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