If Israel tries to attack Iran.

[QUOTE="Redinko"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] Being against the right for Jews to engage in self-determination but support it for other people=anti-semitism.themajormayor

I'm against Zionism being used as a justification to confiscate land and build illegal settlements.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]isnt zionism just being against israel existing as a jewish state? You cant still support israel's existence without saying that it should be a jewish state in the same way iran is a muslim state....Xx_Socrates_xX

you mean anti zionism? being anti zionist is essentially saying the Jews do not deserve a state of their own (just like there is a German state, or a French state, or a Chinese state) if one says that Israel shouldn't be a Jewish state then he is essentially saying he doesn't want the Jews to have a state

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="Redinko"]Puting words into other people's mouth = bad argument.

I'm against Zionism being used as a justification to confiscate land and build illegal settlements.

Redinko

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

you mean anti zionism? being anti zionist is essentially saying the Jews do not deserve a state of their own (just like there is a German state, or a French state, or a Chinese state) if one says that Israel shouldn't be a Jewish state then he is essentially saying he doesn't want the Jews to have a state

themajormayor

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]I dont want tibet (assume for a second that its a country) to be a buddhist state; am I anti-buddhist?BossPerson

That's good cause Israel doesn't have an official religion. It's a secular state and it's home of the Jewish people. There are mosques everywhere and even Sharia courts. Trust me the Jewish nature of Israel has very little to do with religion.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="themajormayor"]

If I'm not mistaken he's against Zionism and Israel's existence as a Jewish state. That for me is anti-semitic. But if he's not then I guess he's not. But this is the impression I've got from him.

I don't think you understand what Zionism is. And BTW Jews are a people. Israel was founded as the home for the Jewish PEOPLE not the Jewish religion. So if you are against the existence of a state for the Jewish people but at the same time support the existence of a state for the Palestinian people for example then yes I think you're anti-semitic.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]I dont want tibet (assume for a second that its a country) to be a buddhist state; am I anti-buddhist?BossPerson

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]His quote: "I objected to the founding of Israel as a Jewish state. I don't think a Jewish or Christian or Islamic state is a proper concept. I would object to the United States as a Christian state." Also, being against zionism is not anti-semetic. Being against Israel's existence is. But saying one is anti-semetic for being against zionism is like saying one is anti-islam for saying Iran shouldnt be an islamic state.xscrapzx

I don't think you understand what Zionism is. And BTW Jews are a people. Israel was founded as the home for the Jewish PEOPLE not the Jewish religion. So if you are against the existence of a state for the Jewish people but at the same time support the existence of a state for the Palestinian people for example then yes I think you're anti-semitic.

[QUOTE="Redinko"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] Guy who doesn't seem to understand the definition of Zionism and talking about irrelevances=you

themajormayor

I have seen this issue largely objectively on this board pointing out the bad sides of both parties in the conflict, yet you have never admitted Israel has done anything wrong at all. Is that really fair? Israel is not perfect, and they have done wrongthings, can you at least admit that?

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]His quote: "I objected to the founding of Israel as a Jewish state. I don't think a Jewish or Christian or Islamic state is a proper concept. I would object to the United States as a Christian state." Also, being against zionism is not anti-semetic. Being against Israel's existence is. But saying one is anti-semetic for being against zionism is like saying one is anti-islam for saying Iran shouldnt be an islamic state.xscrapzx

I don't think you understand what Zionism is. And BTW Jews are a people. Israel was founded as the home for the Jewish PEOPLE not the Jewish religion. So if you are against the existence of a state for the Jewish people but at the same time support the existence of a state for the Palestinian people for example then yes I think you're anti-semitic.

[QUOTE="Redinko"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

thats actually nonense.

yes, Iran has 20,000 Jews in it, but thats hiding the fact that in 1979 , there were over 100,000, and there is a reason they all left , in just a few years afterwards (it wasn't the Mullah's love and affection towards the Jews I can assure you of that), so yes, I would say the regime hates Jews, its willing to live with them if they are dhimmi , thats about it.

the justification is partly that, partly the fact that Iran will try and destabalise the region, and the fact that Iran might just try to throw a bomb into Tel Aviv .

and I really don't think Iran gives a damn about wheter there is a mosque in Jerusalem , weve both seen cases of Muslims destorying mosques during a war (most recently in Iraq)

Darkman2007

So wait let me get this right, Iran is willing to live with thousands of Jews but is a few short years away from nukeing millions of jews without being provoked. LOL do you really believe that? You do know that once they nuke Tel Aviv, Tehran will be the next city to go. A city with around 16 million Irianians.

The Mosque in Jersalem is Islam's third holiest site. No one can call themselves a Muslim and not care if that mosque gets damaged.

You believe Iranians have no issue killing millions of Jews and you can site the history of: ..................

I'm not going to argue this point with you. If you dont understand, it is likly because you are not a Muslim.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Redinko"]You're right, when has Zionism ever been used as a justification to take more land from the Palestinians.. silly me.

BossPerson

I have seen this issue largely objectively on this board pointing out the bad sides of both parties in the conflict, yet you have never admitted Israel has done anything wrong at all. Is that really fair? Israel is not perfect, and they have done wrongthings, can you at least admit that?

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Redinko"]You're right, when has Zionism ever been used as a justification to take more land from the Palestinians.. silly me.

BossPerson

I have seen this issue largely objectively on this board pointing out the bad sides of both parties in the conflict, yet you have never admitted Israel has done anything wrong at all. Is that really fair? Israel is not perfect, and they have done wrongthings, can you at least admit that?

That's not using Zionism as a justifaction. Zionism=right for Jews to self-determination. What you're saying is using historical borders as justification.

Yes I believe they do many thing wrongs, it's just not the things that get attention in media. Also I tend to shift back and forth alot. But for example I think they should recognize the unrecognized bedouin villages in Israel.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="themajormayor"]

I don't think you understand what Zionism is. And BTW Jews are a people. Israel was founded as the home for the Jewish PEOPLE not the Jewish religion. So if you are against the existence of a state for the Jewish people but at the same time support the existence of a state for the Palestinian people for example then yes I think you're anti-semitic.

Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I agree with pretty much all of that you post, but really I cannot stand when people say that a jew is a race. It's not, it is based off religon, they have no common ancestory to tie in with eachother, it's like saying that christians are a race, they aren't. They are called that because they believe in christianity, not because their blood is christian. No such thing.xscrapzx

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Redinko"]If the 1979 revolution was so bad for the Jews you can partially thank Americans for helping spur it on.

So wait let me get this right, Iran is willing to live with thousands of Jews but is a few short years away from nukeing millions of jews without being provoked. LOL do you really believe that? You do know that once they nuke Tel Aviv, Tehran will be the next city to go. A city with around 16 million Irianians.

The Mosque in Jersalem is Islam's third holiest site. No one can call themselves a Muslim and not care if that mosque gets damaged.

Redinko

You believe Iranians have no issue killing millions of Jews and you can site the history of: ..................

I'm not going to argue this point with you. If you dont understand, it is likly because you are not a Muslim.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I agree with pretty much all of that you post, but really I cannot stand when people say that a jew is a race. It's not, it is based off religon, they have no common ancestory to tie in with eachother, it's like saying that christians are a race, they aren't. They are called that because they believe in christianity, not because their blood is christian. No such thing.xscrapzx

I could convert to Hinduism , but that doesn't change the fact that most Hindus are of an Indian or south Asian origin.

its really no different, you can't take the minority and apply it to the majority, and most Jews are decended from a single ethnic group

you can deny Jewish history all you want, but thats the truth.

I can assure you us Jews do have a common ancestry, all Jews started in the same area , as one people, and frankly conversion was never a big thing in the Jewish world.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] No they don't. That is completely false. Jews are called jews because their religion is Judaism. Because I convert from catholic to Judaism, I am therefore a Jew, but that still doesn't take away that I'm of Irish, and Polish decent, in other words part of the caucasion race.

xscrapzx

no one said race, I said ethnicity, which is different. Jews are not a distict race, but are an ethnic group (for the most part).

[QUOTE="Redinko"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] 1) common trick to blame the US for something the Mullahs did, and it wasn't just the revolution , alot of the Jews left after the revolution. 2) yes I believe the Iranians have no issue with killing millions of Jews, wheter the policy of MAD works is something else. 3) that may well be, but the fact is, Muslims have destroyed mosques before, Iraq is just one example.Darkman2007

You believe Iranians have no issue killing millions of Jews and you can site the history of: ..................

I'm not going to argue this point with you. If you dont understand, it is likly because you are not a Muslim.

It is believed that the Prohept visited the Mosque in Jerusalem. To say that this makes the Al-Aqsa Mosque a little more important than other ones is an understatment. To say that every Muslim country in the world would be against Iran if this happens is an understatment.

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"]Israel just loves war. Look at the mass-murder it committed, its just like/or even worse than the Holocaust thingthemajormayor

wtf is this a joke??

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] No they don't. That is completely false. Jews are called jews because their religion is Judaism. Because I convert from catholic to Judaism, I am therefore a Jew, but that still doesn't take away that I'm of Irish, and Polish decent, in other words part of the caucasion race.

xscrapzx

That's why the religion is talking about the people of Israel, the chosen people etc. Also, I might be wrong on this since I am no adherent of Judaism, but from what I know you can be non-Jewish and believe Judaism is the true religion. Then you only follow 7 laws instead of 613. Point is it's more than a religion.

Anyway I think it's cool that you converted to Judaism. It's not very common at all.

^^ trollXx_Socrates_xX

I can assure you us Jews do have a common ancestry, all Jews started in the same area , as one people, and frankly conversion was never a big thing in the Jewish world.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Redinko"]Notice I used the word "partial" I think it's historically pretty sound and goes back to something called blow back. But I can see how the concept of blow back can be a touchy subject because it would imply that the actions of countries in the West, including Israel, doesn't simply happen in a vacuum. It would assume that some of the actions of gonverments in the West have lead to reactions. It would also weaken the argument of "OMG all muslims are Jew hating terrorits and uncivilized. This gives us the justification to bomb them whenever we feel like it. (also see: they hate us for our freefoms)"

You believe Iranians have no issue killing millions of Jews and you can site the history of: ..................

I'm not going to argue this point with you. If you dont understand, it is likly because you are not a Muslim.

Redinko

It is believed that the Prohept visited the Mosque in Jerusalem. To say that this makes the Al-Aqsa Mosque a little more important than other ones is an understatment. To say that every Muslim country in the world would be against Iran if this happens is an understatment.

Wow some of the stupidity in this thread is baffeling.

I don't think the US would shoot down Isreal planes due to the US having to fund attacks, but saying they supported it wouldn't be said in the media, rather they would keep it secret.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] No they don't. That is completely false. Jews are called jews because their religion is Judaism. Because I convert from catholic to Judaism, I am therefore a Jew, but that still doesn't take away that I'm of Irish, and Polish decent, in other words part of the caucasion race.

xscrapzx

"The Jews, also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and an ethnoreligious group, originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation. Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia."

And then a different page just to explain what a nation is: "A nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history"

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Well I respect that and you should think what feels good for you. But in a Jewish person's eye you're part of the Jewish people. Now I don't think that takes away the Irish or Polish decent in any way. But as I said think of it as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are now your adopted forefather. Darkman2007

no one said race, I said ethnicity, which is different. Jews are not a distict race, but are an ethnic group (for the most part).

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] No they don't. That is completely false. Jews are called jews because their religion is Judaism. Because I convert from catholic to Judaism, I am therefore a Jew, but that still doesn't take away that I'm of Irish, and Polish decent, in other words part of the caucasion race.

xscrapzx

you are denying Jewish history, because its plain fact, Jews all started as a single ethnic group , and for the most part , still are.

yes, you can become a Jew of the Jewish faith , but you cannot be a Jew of the ethnic element (and both are there ). again , taking a few converts and applying them to the other 90% is silly.

I think youre failing to understand the connection between ethnicity and religion in Judaism , Id have to imagine its because you are used to a more universal religion like Christianity , where the modern population is indeed the result of conversions.

in Judaism , most of the adherents are part of the same ethnic group , and conversions and intermarriage were not a huge factor in Jewish history.

and no one said a thing about different human being,

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I could convert to Hinduism , but that doesn't change the fact that most Hindus are of an Indian or south Asian origin. its really no different, you can't take the minority and apply it to the majority. you can deny Jewish history all you want, but thats the truth.themajormayor

"The Jews, also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and an ethnoreligious group, originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation. Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia."

And then a different page just to explain what a nation is: "A nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history"

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I'm not saying I disagree with you in that aspect, I'm just saying that it is not a species of human being. I guess that is really where I'm going with this. I think that too many people try to make them like a race, in which they are not. I think really at the end of the day if people stopped seeing they jewish people as a race of people, then maybe their outlook on them wouldn't be the way it is.xscrapzx

no one said race, I said ethnicity, which is different. Jews are not a distict race, but are an ethnic group (for the most part).

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I could convert to Hinduism , but that doesn't change the fact that most Hindus are of an Indian or south Asian origin. its really no different, you can't take the minority and apply it to the majority. you can deny Jewish history all you want, but thats the truth.Darkman2007

you are denying Jewish history, because its plain fact, Jews all started as a single ethnic group , and for the most part , still are.

yes, you can become a Jew of the Jewish faith , but you cannot be a Jew of the ethnic element (and both are there ). again , taking a few converts and applying them to the other 90% is silly.

I think youre failing to understand the connection between ethnicity and religion in Judaism , Id have to imagine its because you are used to a more universal religion like Christianity , where the modern population is indeed the result of conversions.

in Judaism , most of the adherents are part of the same ethnic group , and conversions and intermarriage were not a huge factor in Jewish history.

and no one said a thing about different human being,

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I'm not denying any of the Jewish History at all. How is what I said denying the history of the Jewish people. Jews are not an ethicity. Jews could be black, white, asian, middle eastern, or indian, but a jew is not part of that class. It is solely based on the religon of Judaism. Its not like a jew is a different kind of human being, because they are not. It's not like I can say, "Hey I want to be black today", or "Hey I want to be Asian", and actually believe I am either of those.xscrapzx

"The Jews, also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and an ethnoreligious group, originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation. Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia."

And then a different page just to explain what a nation is: "A nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history"

[QUOTE="Redinko"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I never said the west hasn't done bad things, but it goes both ways, we both know that. I cite the history of Iran and the fact that it had its share of Jew killing/hating, although I suppose one could say that about almost every country in the Middle East and Europe. I understand it perfectly, its taboo in Judaism to destroy a synagouge, but that doesn't change the fact that there are Muslims who were willing to destroy mosques. also Tel Aviv is not exactly right next to Jerusalem.Darkman2007

It is believed that the Prohept visited the Mosque in Jerusalem. To say that this makes the Al-Aqsa Mosque a little more important than other ones is an understatment. To say that every Muslim country in the world would be against Iran if this happens is an understatment.

Okay, so how do Israelies percive a threat? Because they are being told over and over again that Ahmandinejad = Hitler I guess the Hitler card is still going strong, huh?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I'm not denying any of the Jewish History at all. How is what I said denying the history of the Jewish people. Jews are not an ethicity. Jews could be black, white, asian, middle eastern, or indian, but a jew is not part of that class. It is solely based on the religon of Judaism. Its not like a jew is a different kind of human being, because they are not. It's not like I can say, "Hey I want to be black today", or "Hey I want to be Asian", and actually believe I am either of those.themajormayor

you are denying Jewish history, because its plain fact, Jews all started as a single ethnic group , and for the most part , still are.

yes, you can become a Jew of the Jewish faith , but you cannot be a Jew of the ethnic element (and both are there ). again , taking a few converts and applying them to the other 90% is silly.

I think youre failing to understand the connection between ethnicity and religion in Judaism , Id have to imagine its because you are used to a more universal religion like Christianity , where the modern population is indeed the result of conversions.

in Judaism , most of the adherents are part of the same ethnic group , and conversions and intermarriage were not a huge factor in Jewish history.

and no one said a thing about different human being,

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I could convert to Hinduism , but that doesn't change the fact that most Hindus are of an Indian or south Asian origin. its really no different, you can't take the minority and apply it to the majority. you can deny Jewish history all you want, but thats the truth.Darkman2007

you are denying Jewish history, because its plain fact, Jews all started as a single ethnic group , and for the most part , still are.

yes, you can become a Jew of the Jewish faith , but you cannot be a Jew of the ethnic element (and both are there ). again , taking a few converts and applying them to the other 90% is silly.

I think youre failing to understand the connection between ethnicity and religion in Judaism , Id have to imagine its because you are used to a more universal religion like Christianity , where the modern population is indeed the result of conversions.

in Judaism , most of the adherents are part of the same ethnic group , and conversions and intermarriage were not a huge factor in Jewish history.

and no one said a thing about different human being,

You are killing me... Again I never claimed that anyone said anything about Jews being a particular race or species of human being in this thread. I simply made a reply to major that the Jewish people are not a race of people. They may all live by the same laws and ways of life and might be related in some way or another, but at the end of the day they aren't like Asians, Africans, Causcasions or Indians. They are middle eastern people from that region. Their way of life is Judaism. Thats all. That is not denying anything, that is not taking anything away from the Jewish history. I just simply made a comment. My whole point was the Jewish people live strongly by their religion and thats how they live their lives, and if people saw them in that view instead of a race of people who are trying to TAKE OVER TEH WHOLE world they probably would see them in a different light. The people I'm referring to are the people who dislike them. Maybe I'm using the wrong words and no explaining myself thoroughly.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I'm not denying any of the Jewish History at all. How is what I said denying the history of the Jewish people. Jews are not an ethicity. Jews could be black, white, asian, middle eastern, or indian, but a jew is not part of that class. It is solely based on the religon of Judaism. Its not like a jew is a different kind of human being, because they are not. It's not like I can say, "Hey I want to be black today", or "Hey I want to be Asian", and actually believe I am either of those.xscrapzx

"The Jews, also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and an ethnoreligious group, originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation. Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia."

And then a different page just to explain what a nation is: "A nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history"

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Redinko"]To your second point: the fact that it was so weak already proves my point. The reality is there is NO justfication for why Iran would suddly want to kill millions of Jews while also knowing millions of Iranians will die as well. Of course your prime minister is going with the clever argument of "OMG they are all Jew-hating, anti-civilized Muslims!! We have to attack. Oh and if you aren't on my side yet: Hitler Hitler Hitler"

It is believed that the Prohept visited the Mosque in Jerusalem. To say that this makes the Al-Aqsa Mosque a little more important than other ones is an understatment. To say that every Muslim country in the world would be against Iran if this happens is an understatment.

Redinko

Okay, so how do Israelies percive a threat? Because they are being told over and over again that Ahmandinejad = Hitler I guess the Hitler card is still going strong, huh?

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

you are denying Jewish history, because its plain fact, Jews all started as a single ethnic group , and for the most part , still are.

yes, you can become a Jew of the Jewish faith , but you cannot be a Jew of the ethnic element (and both are there ). again , taking a few converts and applying them to the other 90% is silly.

I think youre failing to understand the connection between ethnicity and religion in Judaism , Id have to imagine its because you are used to a more universal religion like Christianity , where the modern population is indeed the result of conversions.

in Judaism , most of the adherents are part of the same ethnic group , and conversions and intermarriage were not a huge factor in Jewish history.

and no one said a thing about different human being,

Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I'm not denying any of the Jewish History at all. How is what I said denying the history of the Jewish people. Jews are not an ethicity. Jews could be black, white, asian, middle eastern, or indian, but a jew is not part of that class. It is solely based on the religon of Judaism. Its not like a jew is a different kind of human being, because they are not. It's not like I can say, "Hey I want to be black today", or "Hey I want to be Asian", and actually believe I am either of those.xscrapzx

you are denying Jewish history, because its plain fact, Jews all started as a single ethnic group , and for the most part , still are.

yes, you can become a Jew of the Jewish faith , but you cannot be a Jew of the ethnic element (and both are there ). again , taking a few converts and applying them to the other 90% is silly.

I think youre failing to understand the connection between ethnicity and religion in Judaism , Id have to imagine its because you are used to a more universal religion like Christianity , where the modern population is indeed the result of conversions.

in Judaism , most of the adherents are part of the same ethnic group , and conversions and intermarriage were not a huge factor in Jewish history.

and no one said a thing about different human being,

You are killing me... Again I never claimed that anyone said anything about Jews being a particular race or species of human being in this thread. I simply made a reply to major that the Jewish people are not a race of people. They may all live by the same laws and ways of life and might be related in some way or another, but at the end of the day they aren't like Asians, Africans, Causcasions or Indians. They are middle eastern people from that region. Their way of life is Judaism. Thats all. That is not denying anything, that is not taking anything away from the Jewish history. I just simply made a comment. My whole point was the Jewish people live strongly by their religion and thats how they live their lives, and if people saw them in that view instead of a race of people who are trying to TAKE OVER TEH WHOLE world they probably would see them in a different light. The people I'm referring to are the people who dislike them. Maybe I'm using the wrong words and no explaining myself thoroughly.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] I think the first paragraph of Wikipedia says this very well:

"The Jews, also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and an ethnoreligious group, originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation. Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia."

And then a different page just to explain what a nation is: "A nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history"

themajormayor

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] You're wrong ALL Jews are part of the same ethnic group. Converted Jews are treated as part of the Jewish ethnicity just as much as people born as Jews.xscrapzx

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

you are denying Jewish history, because its plain fact, Jews all started as a single ethnic group , and for the most part , still are.

yes, you can become a Jew of the Jewish faith , but you cannot be a Jew of the ethnic element (and both are there ). again , taking a few converts and applying them to the other 90% is silly.

I think youre failing to understand the connection between ethnicity and religion in Judaism , Id have to imagine its because you are used to a more universal religion like Christianity , where the modern population is indeed the result of conversions.

in Judaism , most of the adherents are part of the same ethnic group , and conversions and intermarriage were not a huge factor in Jewish history.

and no one said a thing about different human being,

Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

you are denying Jewish history, because its plain fact, Jews all started as a single ethnic group , and for the most part , still are.

yes, you can become a Jew of the Jewish faith , but you cannot be a Jew of the ethnic element (and both are there ). again , taking a few converts and applying them to the other 90% is silly.

I think youre failing to understand the connection between ethnicity and religion in Judaism , Id have to imagine its because you are used to a more universal religion like Christianity , where the modern population is indeed the result of conversions.

in Judaism , most of the adherents are part of the same ethnic group , and conversions and intermarriage were not a huge factor in Jewish history.

and no one said a thing about different human being,

You are killing me... Again I never claimed that anyone said anything about Jews being a particular race or species of human being in this thread. I simply made a reply to major that the Jewish people are not a race of people. They may all live by the same laws and ways of life and might be related in some way or another, but at the end of the day they aren't like Asians, Africans, Causcasions or Indians. They are middle eastern people from that region. Their way of life is Judaism. Thats all. That is not denying anything, that is not taking anything away from the Jewish history. I just simply made a comment. My whole point was the Jewish people live strongly by their religion and thats how they live their lives, and if people saw them in that view instead of a race of people who are trying to TAKE OVER TEH WHOLE world they probably would see them in a different light. The people I'm referring to are the people who dislike them. Maybe I'm using the wrong words and no explaining myself thoroughly.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] You're wrong ALL Jews are part of the same ethnic group. Converted Jews are treated as part of the Jewish ethnicity just as much as people born as Jews.themajormayor

yes and no. from a religious standpoint, yes, they are very much equal to Jews, and at the end of the day, thats the ultimate authority. at the same time, if someone converts to Judaism , that doesn't mean he has the same ancestry as me, so its not the same. that doesn't mean they are treated differently of course, in fact, Rabbi Akiva's parents were converts, and he was one of the most revered Rabbis in history.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

You are killing me... Again I never claimed that anyone said anything about Jews being a particular race or species of human being in this thread. I simply made a reply to major that the Jewish people are not a race of people. They may all live by the same laws and ways of life and might be related in some way or another, but at the end of the day they aren't like Asians, Africans, Causcasions or Indians. They are middle eastern people from that region. Their way of life is Judaism. Thats all. That is not denying anything, that is not taking anything away from the Jewish history. I just simply made a comment. My whole point was the Jewish people live strongly by their religion and thats how they live their lives, and if people saw them in that view instead of a race of people who are trying to TAKE OVER TEH WHOLE world they probably would see them in a different light. The people I'm referring to are the people who dislike them. Maybe I'm using the wrong words and no explaining myself thoroughly.

xscrapzx

thing is, youre looking at it in a purely universalist religious sense, when its not that simple.

here is a way to explain it, how did Christianity and Islam spread?