If there was no God,no creator just nobody at all....

[QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="Fire_Spirit"] Drugs are real. The effects of drugs are real, therefore, experiences gained while under the real influence from these real drugs are also real. Just sayin...Fire_Spirit

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Dont know what the bolded part means but seems like it will be irrelavent to the discussion anyways since God has been talked about throughout the history of man.alphamale1989

[QUOTE="Fire_Spirit"][QUOTE="Red-XIII"] Perhaps you should check your reading comprehension, I never said the effects of drugs aren't real. I said the prophecies were drug induced and thus the prophecies aren't legitimate.Funky_Llama

You, um, don't think that someone's credibility is just a tiny bit lower when they're on an acid trip or something?Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Fire_Spirit"] Yeah see, you didn't understand... Being drug induced doesn't make them any less legitimate.Fire_Spirit

[QUOTE="Fire_Spirit"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]You, um, don't think that someone's credibility is just a tiny bit lower when they're on an acid trip or something?xaos

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Fire_Spirit"] Nope, and if you've ever done acid you would know this. Just sayin... You can't judge what you don't understand. Fire_Spirit

Romans 1-3 clearly shows that mankind knows there is a God.maheo30

Then why would there be so many religions and so much talk about God throughout the history of mankind?

Why would anyone make up false stories of God and all?And even if some did,why would they continue throughout time?

If God never ever communicated to man through His prophets then surely this much talk about God and religion just simply wont be there.

Thinker_reborn

Romans 1-3 clearly shows that mankind knows there is a God. They just don't like it! Just because someone goes around saying they don't believe in Him doesn't mean He suddenly stop existing. If everyone on earth suddenly went blind it would not diminish the glory of the sun one bit. Same applies to God. People today have this idea that their belief somehow makes it so. Truth is truth no matter what. Our belief does not make something true. Period. maheo30

Oh, you are one of those. Got it.xaos

Romans 1-3 clearly shows that mankind knows there is a God. They just don't like it! Just because someone goes around saying they don't believe in Him doesn't mean He suddenly stop existing. If everyone on earth suddenly went blind it would not diminish the glory of the sun one bit. Same applies to God. People today have this idea that their belief somehow makes it so. Truth is truth no matter what. Our belief does not make something true. Period. maheo30

Oh, xaos, maybe I should have said the same thing about you...

You're one of those... one of those who knows he can't understand the concept since he lacks experience with it, yet still wants to "win" the argument, so he tosses out a petty insult, as if that somehow dealt the killer blow, and I should now be silent? Seriously? Didn't we get past that kind of crap after high school? :?

Romans 1-3 clearly shows that mankind knows there is a God. They just don't like it! Just because someone goes around saying they don't believe in Him doesn't mean He suddenly stop existing. If everyone on earth suddenly went blind it would not diminish the glory of the sun one bit. Same applies to God. People today have this idea that their belief somehow makes it so. Truth is truth no matter what. Our belief does not make something true. Period. maheo30

[QUOTE="maheo30"]Romans 1-3 clearly shows that mankind knows there is a God. They just don't like it! Just because someone goes around saying they don't believe in Him doesn't mean He suddenly stop existing. If everyone on earth suddenly went blind it would not diminish the glory of the sun one bit. Same applies to God. People today have this idea that their belief somehow makes it so. Truth is truth no matter what. Our belief does not make something true. Period. Fire_Spirit

Going back to Romans 1-3 for a minute. Proof is irrelevant. Romans 3 says,

9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17And the way of peace have they not known:

18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Not one single person apart from Christ understands God or ever seeks God. Acts 7 says man always resists God. Ephesians says man is dead. Ezekiel compares man to a rotting dead corpse. The point? You can't believe in God until He allows it. I could give you all the proof required and you would still deny. You assume you wquld believe if I offered the right proof. Wrong according to scripture. You would still deny.

[QUOTE="Fire_Spirit"][QUOTE="maheo30"]Romans 1-3 clearly shows that mankind knows there is a God. They just don't like it! Just because someone goes around saying they don't believe in Him doesn't mean He suddenly stop existing. If everyone on earth suddenly went blind it would not diminish the glory of the sun one bit. Same applies to God. People today have this idea that their belief somehow makes it so. Truth is truth no matter what. Our belief does not make something true. Period. maheo30

Going back to Romans 1-3 for a minute. Proof is irrelevant. Romans 3 says,

9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17And the way of peace have they not known:

18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Not one single person apart from Christ understands God or ever seeks God. Acts 7 says man always resists God. Ephesians says man is dead. Ezekiel compares man to a rotting dead corpse. The point? You can't believe in God until He allows it. I could give you all the proof required and you would still deny. You assume you wquld believe if I offered the right proof. Wrong according to scripture. You would still deny.

Here is the doctrine of man's fall,

Man, the Fall, and its effects

1. Adam and Eve rebelled against God and sinned by eating the forbidden fruit.
   1. "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Rom. 5:12, NIV).
2. What was their sin?
   1. They listened to Satan and ate of the fruit that was forbidden by God (Gen. 3:1-13).
3. What was the consequence of their sin?
   1. Death (Rom. 6:23) and separation from God's presence (Isaiah 59:2)
   2. Transmission of the sin nature to their (and our) children (Psalm 51:5).
   3. Creation also fell (Gen. 3:17; Rom. 8:22).
4. How did their sin affect God?
   1. They became unfit for the presence of God (Isaiah 59:2).
   2. They became unable to do God's will (Rom. 6:16; 7:14).
   3. They became subject to the curse of the Law and death (Deut. 27:26; Rom. 6:23).
5. Original Sin - The doctrine that we inherit our sin natures from Adam (Rom. 5:12-21).
   1. Adam was the Federal Head of all humanity; that is, he represented all people in the Garden of Eden.
      1. "For as in Adam all die..." (1 Cor. 15:22).
      2. The phrase "in Adam" indicates our relation to Adam, that he represented us in the garden. In the same way, our being "in Christ" indicates our relation to Jesus, that He represent us on the cross (Rom. 5:18; 6:11; 8:1; 1 Cor. 1:2; 15:22; 2 Cor. 5:19).
   2. Our sin with Adam: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Rom. 5:12). See also Rom. 5:18; 1 Cor. 15:22.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="DivergeUnify"]most monotheistic religions are relatively newFunky_Llama

Truth is truth...correct. However, your god has never been proven to be existent, therefore saying he is real is not the truth, just because you wish for it to be so. Just because you go around saying he exists, doesn't mean that he does... and the lack of proof for thousands of years doesn't back up your position all that well. :? Just because you've gone blind to the fact that fairy tales are just that - tales of fantasy, doesn't diminish the glory of human beings and the progression we have made on our own one bit. :) By the way, it doesn't matter what Romans says. The book was written by man. Prove the book was written by god himself, and you might have a case. Fire_Spirit

Going back to Romans 1-3 for a minute. Proof is irrelevant. Romans 3 says,

9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17And the way of peace have they not known:

18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Not one single person apart from Christ understands God or ever seeks God. Acts 7 says man always resists God. Ephesians says man is dead. Ezekiel compares man to a rotting dead corpse. The point? You can't believe in God until He allows it. I could give you all the proof required and you would still deny. You assume you wquld believe if I offered the right proof. Wrong according to scripture. You would still deny.

Then why would there be so many religions and so much talk about God throughout the history of mankind?

Why would anyone make up false stories of God and all?And even if some did,why would they continue throughout time?

If God never ever communicated to man through His prophets then surely this much talk about God and religion just simply wont be there.

Thinker_reborn

it gives emaning and an explaination to the unknown...which is why that if one day they could prove that there is no god...most of the world would fall apart

You can't believe in God until He allows it. I could give you all the proof required and you would still deny. You assume you wquld believe if I offered the right proof. Wrong according to scripture. You would still deny. maheo30

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Dont know what the bolded part means but seems like it will be irrelavent to the discussion anyways since God has been talked about throughout the history of man.TheFlush

You're not completely wrong. I think they're all a part of Brahma. Each deity represents a different aspect of Brahma.

[QUOTE="xaos"]Oh, you are one of those. Got it.Fire_Spirit

[QUOTE="LoeJance"][QUOTE="maheo30"]

 

Going back to Romans 1-3 for a minute. Proof is irrelevant. Romans 3 says,

9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17And the way of peace have they not known:

18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Not one single person apart from Christ understands God or ever seeks God. Acts 7 says man always resists God. Ephesians says man is dead. Ezekiel compares man to a rotting dead corpse. The point? You can't believe in God until He allows it. I could give you all the proof required and you would still deny. You assume you wquld believe if I offered the right proof. Wrong according to scripture. You would still deny.

maheo30

[QUOTE="Fire_Spirit"][QUOTE="xaos"]Oh, you are one of those. Got it.xaos

Then why would there be so many religions and so much talk about God throughout the history of mankind?

Why would anyone make up false stories of God and all?And even if some did,why would they continue throughout time?

If God never ever communicated to man through His prophets then surely this much talk about God and religion just simply wont be there.

Thinker_reborn

Deal with the argument. Not silly distractions. The doctrine of man's fall makes it impossible for you to accept God no matter how much evidence is slapped in front of you. Apart from cr5ying out for illumination and mercy your in trouble. maheo30

Your argument depends on the Bible being the true word of God, and that depends on God existing. Thus, your argument is basically, "Assume God exists and that he wrote the Bible. Then we can conclude that God exists."

This is known as a "tautology" by logicians, and is not considered to be something that is useful.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Fire_Spirit"] You don't even know what I am... :roll: But if you want to act as if I'm beneath you in some manner, by all means, challenge me... at anything. We'll see what happens.Fire_Spirit

No damage on my part, I'm not the one who felt the need to make two separate posts about how mean I am. By the way, by "one of those" I meant someone who considers drugs some sort of gateway to enlightenment. While I personally find that utterly silly, I meant nothing more or less than EXACTLY what I said. If you read more than that, then that is what you read, not what I said. No matter how much offense you try to take from my statement, you can't make me have attacked you. Sorry!xaos

Wow you're really in denial. See the bolded parts? The first one is another condescending statement. "I'm not the one who needed to do this..." as if I'm some weakling who stooped to a level beneath the one you're standing on. And the second bolded sentence is a blatant admission that I was right in what I perceived from your statement.

I'm not going to argue this anymore, it's a waste of precious time, and it's clear you've just owned yourself.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

Then why would there be so many religions and so much talk about God throughout the history of mankind?

Why would anyone make up false stories of God and all?And even if some did,why would they continue throughout time?

If God never ever communicated to man through His prophets then surely this much talk about God and religion just simply wont be there.

DJCUEBALL

I saw the arguement about there being religion since the beginning of intelligable humans (which funny enough kinda proves evolution a little :P ) and the fact that different regions of the world have different religious views and gods. There are other religions older than Christianity that have a huge amount of followers.

[QUOTE="DJCUEBALL"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

Then why would there be so many religions and so much talk about God throughout the history of mankind?

Why would anyone make up false stories of God and all?And even if some did,why would they continue throughout time?

If God never ever communicated to man through His prophets then surely this much talk about God and religion just simply wont be there.

LoeJance

:D 

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"]most monotheisticreligions are relatively newThinker_reborn

*faceplam*

I'm sorry but please don't comment on something don't know as irrelevant. Anyway monotheistic (belief in one god) religions are actually a relatively new. You can look all over the world and find many polytheistic (belief in many gods) religions but you will have a hard time trying to find several monotheistic religion.

Then why would there be so many religions and so much talk about God throughout the history of mankind?

Why would anyone make up false stories of God and all?And even if some did,why would they continue throughout time?

If God never ever communicated to man through His prophets then surely this much talk about God and religion just simply wont be there.

Thinker_reborn

Then why would there be so many religions and so much talk about God throughout the history of mankind?

Why would anyone make up false stories of God and all?And even if some did,why would they continue throughout time?

If God never ever communicated to man through His prophets then surely this much talk about God and religion just simply wont be there.

Thinker_reborn

Why would there be so much talk of tooth fairies and easter bunnies throughout the history of mankind?

Why would anyone make up false stories of Santa Claus and all? Even if they did why would they continue throughout time?

If these things never existed, then surely this much talk about candy-dropping bunnies, and fat men in red suits just simply wouldn't be there...

Right? :roll:

Get it?

Don't know if this has been posted already or not, but:

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

Lets see:

1. People are always looking for answers, whenever objective knowledge and experience fail to explain something, we turn to the metaphysical, peranormal, etc. for answers.

2. Fear of death is one of the most integral parts of human nature, no one. Also, humans aspire for something "greater", they want their lives to have some purpose, a direction of some sort; if the spiritual and supernatural don't exist, if there's no higher force to govern the world and nothing after death, then you are left with the idea that our lives are meaningless, there's no purpose or objective, and in the end nothing you do matters because it will all end when you die, and many people just can't deal with that, they want to feel important, "special" in some way, any way.

This fear of death and the hopelesness that results from the idea that there's no meaning or objective in life combine to make people seek hope, solace, in entities such as the "all-loving" christian God, who is considered a father, a protector, a guiding light; and meaning, in concepts such as heaven and hell, which mean everything doesn't just end when we die, and we can look forward to not just "not ending", but even living for all eternity in bliss alongside the most glorious being in existence.

Basically what this concepts do is provide people with great hope and a purpose, it makes people feel their lives are worth something and somehow special, it gives them a reason to try and be better human beings, and it gives them something to live for and to look forward to, no matter how dark or difficult their present circumstances might seem. That's why religion is so powerful and has so many devout (even extreme) followers, and why it can in fact drastically change a life, few things can give someone so much inner peace and strenght (hence the mighty resolve and absolute certainty true believers show). All this in and of itself is not a bad thing, religion greatly helps those who practice it, the problem is when this amazing power is corrupted and used for the benefit of a few people (high ranking catholic church officials living in great luxury, with the Vatican being the wealthiest state in the world), for political purposes, to control what people think and what is accepted in society (in it's most extreme form: the Inquisition), to wage wars, etc.

3. As for why religion hasn't gone away and the prophets you mention: well, considering it's great power and how much it helps people be stronger and deal with their problems, it really doesn't matter if it's true or not, it's not going anywhere anytime soon, and because it becomes such an integral part of people's lives and a foundation to keep them from collapsing (keeping away the thoughts of lack of meaning, giving them purpose and something to look forward to, etc.), they obviously believe it to be completely true, flawless and infallible, and they start seeing proof of god everywhere to back up this belief (they see god everywhere because they want him to be everywhere). Pretty much anything could be seen as proof of god, from the universe itself to the bible, so the prophets you speak of may have seen or heard something entirely different, but since they were devout believers, they decided to interpret it as some sort of divine message, we may never know...

Phew... That was nice, it's been a while since I felt like actually contributing something to these threads. :P 

[QUOTE="metaldude05"]

This topic kind of confuses me to be honest. I don't have the answer for the issue of God gives free will but also knows what you will do (being all knowing). i guess that even though God knows the decision you will make he does not make it for you. i don't see why that if God created the decision making process he has to actually make the decision. He created us and the process but we use the process to make our own decisions. i don't see how that is not possible 

SpaceMoose

You may make decisions, but you don't decide the process by which thoes decisions are made in the first place; that would be paradoxical.

i don't really think so but whatev let me put it this way. I basically believe that God has given me the ability to make decisions and think and whatnot but i make them. but my guess is your going to find some paradox in that but o well thats that 

[QUOTE="TheFlush"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]It means a religion with only one God, eg Christianity or Islam, as opposed to, say, Hinduism.Shad0ki11

You're not completely wrong. I think they're all a part of Brahma. Each deity represents a different aspect of Brahma.

i think the difference is that each God is a seperate entity. each one represents a different force of nature or whatever it is. even though they are kind of part of the same thing they represent totally different things. its not like the trinity where all are the same God and are just different forms. Also, correct me if im wrong but the Brahma isn't really a god but more of like a energy or force that the gods stem from, maybe thats dharma though i can't remember its been a while since i've studied hinduism? 

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"][QUOTE="metaldude05"]

This topic kind of confuses me to be honest. I don't have the answer for the issue of God gives free will but also knows what you will do (being all knowing). i guess that even though God knows the decision you will make he does not make it for you. i don't see why that if God created the decision making process he has to actually make the decision. He created us and the process but we use the process to make our own decisions. i don't see how that is not possible 

metaldude05

You may make decisions, but you don't decide the process by which thoes decisions are made in the first place; that would be paradoxical.

i don't really think so but whatev let me put it this way. I basically believe that God has given me the ability to make decisions and think and whatnot but i make them. but my guess is your going to find some paradox in that but o well thats that 

If you really need a concrete example of it, something like Alzheimer's disease alters a person's behavior, but a lot of people will miss the point and say that that's an exception, which is why I avoided using such an example in the first place. Normally we are just talking about routine cellular-level brain activity, which operates according to the laws of physics (whether God made those laws or not), the same as everything else.

Romans 1-3 clearly shows that mankind knows there is a God. They just don't like it! Just because someone goes around saying they don't believe in Him doesn't mean He suddenly stop existing. If everyone on earth suddenly went blind it would not diminish the glory of the sun one bit. Same applies to God. People today have this idea that their belief somehow makes it so. Truth is truth no matter what. Our belief does not make something true. Period. maheo30