In terms of musical talent, prog rock is the best!

Tool is influenced by all of those bands you mentioned, and they are every bit as talented if not more so. If you don't listen to them, you really should. It's not "metal" at all, and it is extremely progressive.

1ND1FF3R3NT

[QUOTE="3DayFinisher"]i dun think so, in terms of musical talent, death meatal is the best, i dont like it,but its hard to play for the duration at that constant speedFilm-Guy

playing fast guitar for a long time requires more endurance than talent, however much I enjoy metal, I would never think that playing fast takes more talent than technical skill.

It isn't just fast, there's a lot of techinicality in it too. Try it sometime if you want to figure it out. Try Adestes Infedilis(spelling?) by Cryptopsy. That's a relitively tame tech-death song. 

I disagree with the original statement. Talent is too subjective. I believe musical talent is the ability to make music or contribute to making music that people like to listen to. It's as simple as that. I don't like to listen to Jethro Tull music, but love Weezer. Jethro Tull's music takes much more technical skill but in the end Weezer, as simple as they are, sound better.ak618

:|But he's talking talent as in technical skill.

[QUOTE="1ND1FF3R3NT"]

Tool is influenced by all of those bands you mentioned, and they are every bit as talented if not more so. If you don't listen to them, you really should. It's not "metal" at all, and it is extremely progressive.

lemonfreshpanda

maynard dude, maynard. 

Jazz and chamber classical are probably the most difficult overall.

lemonfreshpanda

That's a darn good call, but classical concertos tend to be more difficult than chamber music (albeit only for the soloist), because memorisation in that context is stressful, and because the music was specifically written to challenge the soloist.  The most difficult Western music ever written (from a technical viewpoint) exists in the concerto repertoire. But chamber music is indeed an extremely challenging art form, and certainly the most demanding with respect to ensemble considerations in the classical world.

I like chamber music more than concertos.  Concertos may be a better showcase for talent, but chamber music is the real showcase for stunning composition.  And you have to have good chops and musicianship to play it well, too. 

i dun think so, in terms of musical talent, death meatal is the best, i dont like it,but its hard to play for the duration at that constant speed3DayFinisher

Playing that long really fast doesn't require any musical talent at all. Just endurance. Creating the song, "One Time", by King Crimson requires musical talent. 

Or by ingenuity.

 

I mean, Alex Lifeson literally INVENTED whole new chords.

lemonfreshpanda

That's just not possible anymore. I don't even need to hear the music to know with certainty that he didn't invent anything harmonic. Given the vast Western repertoire (all genres), it is no longer possible to invent harmony without resorting to microtonality. Harmony has been utterly and totally exhausted from the vertical point of view when it comes to 12-tone music (a category that encompasses nearly all Western music). Even horizontal progressions have been more or less exhausted, in that all that's left is not especially appealing to the ear.

Lifeson may have been the first to use certain chords in his genre, but they were in existence before him. I wouldn't be surprised if his most 'unique' harmony was already in use in the latter part of the 19th century... or perhaps even earlier.

Immaginative: yes.
Talented: no.
The best: lmao.

[QUOTE="3DayFinisher"]i dun think so, in terms of musical talent, death meatal is the best, i dont like it,but its hard to play for the duration at that constant speedthe_bi99man

Playing that long really fast doesn't require any musical talent at all. Just endurance. Creating the song, "One Time", by King Crimson requires musical talent.

Do you play?  This is the sort of comment that someone who doesn't play an instrument usually makes.  Playing with good control and precision at high speed takes a lot of talent and hard work to achieve.  The thing is that you can play easy figurations really fast, and everyone will think you're an instrumental god, when the music is actually not that challenging.  Also, most people know next to nothing about music, and so even music that is horribly played with respect to tone production, interpretation, and even accuracy tends to be well received as long as it's 'fast.'  That's what most popular musicians do (and have done for hundreds of years).  But that's not to say there isn't incredibly challenging fast music out there too.

Try playing Liszt's transcendental etudes up to speed, then tell me no talent is required to play with speed. 

Immaginative: yes.
Talented: no.
The best: lmao.

Buffalo_Soulja

 :lol:

Very succinct... 

[QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"]

Or by ingenuity.

 

I mean, Alex Lifeson literally INVENTED whole new chords.

pianist

That's just not possible anymore. I don't even need to hear the music to know with certainty that he didn't invent anything harmonic. Given the vast Western repertoire (all genres), it is no longer possible to invent harmony without resorting to microtonality. Harmony has been utterly and totally exhausted from the vertical point of view when it comes to 12-tone music (a category that encompasses nearly all Western music). Even horizontal progressions have been more or less exhausted, in that all that's left is not especially appealing to the ear.

Lifeson may have been the first to use certain chords in his genre, but they were in existence before him. I wouldn't be surprised if his most 'unique' harmony was already in use in the latter part of the 19th century... or perhaps even earlier.

There exists talent amongst all music genre...there is no one "most' talented genre. I suggest a bit of variety in your music catalog.:)LJS9502_basic

Usually I agree with you, but not here.  In the same way that we can distinguish a Grade 1 piano piece from a Grade 10 piano piece, or a short pop song from a Mahler symphony, we can classify what genre presents the greatest challenges to performers, and which genre has demanded the most (or perhaps simply received the most strenuous contributions) from its composers.  Classical music and jazz tend to win both categories fairly easily, and classical music has an overall edge on jazz, especially with respect to composition.

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"]

Or by ingenuity.

 

I mean, Alex Lifeson literally INVENTED whole new chords.

lemonfreshpanda

That's just not possible anymore. I don't even need to hear the music to know with certainty that he didn't invent anything harmonic. Given the vast Western repertoire (all genres), it is no longer possible to invent harmony without resorting to microtonality. Harmony has been utterly and totally exhausted from the vertical point of view when it comes to 12-tone music (a category that encompasses nearly all Western music). Even horizontal progressions have been more or less exhausted, in that all that's left is not especially appealing to the ear.

Lifeson may have been the first to use certain chords in his genre, but they were in existence before him. I wouldn't be surprised if his most 'unique' harmony was already in use in the latter part of the 19th century... or perhaps even earlier.

I'd NEVER challenge you to a movie duel... :P

Music's my area of expertise, and as a music instructor, I can't help but be fascinated by these topics, and feel an insatiable urge to respond to that which I feel is inaccurate. But hey - I'm impressed that you have noted the difficulty that clas sical chamber music presents. Most people don't even know what it is.

http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=19 

I know all there is to know about prog music. PM if you wanna know anything

[QUOTE="ak618"]I disagree with the original statement. Talent is too subjective. I believe musical talent is the ability to make music or contribute to making music that people like to listen to. It's as simple as that. I don't like to listen to Jethro Tull music, but love Weezer. Jethro Tull's music takes much more technical skill but in the end Weezer, as simple as they are, sound better.MrPenguinKing

:|But he's talking talent as in technical skill.

Fast music doesn't always require the greatest talent. I can tell you from experience that many of the most challenging works I've had to perform in my lifetime were slow. Playing with a beautiful sound in an exposed setting is much more difficult than amazing someone with a blaze of notes which go by so quickly that only discerning listeners can determine if the playing was actually controlled and effective. Lots of mediocre musicians camouflage poor technical control with speed, and ironically are often perceived as better musicians as a result.

[QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"]

Or by ingenuity.

 

I mean, Alex Lifeson literally INVENTED whole new chords.

pianist

That's just not possible anymore. I don't even need to hear the music to know with certainty that he didn't invent anything harmonic. Given the vast Western repertoire (all genres), it is no longer possible to invent harmony without resorting to microtonality. Harmony has been utterly and totally exhausted from the vertical point of view when it comes to 12-tone music (a category that encompasses nearly all Western music). Even horizontal progressions have been more or less exhausted, in that all that's left is not especially appealing to the ear.

Lifeson may have been the first to use certain chords in his genre, but they were in existence before him. I wouldn't be surprised if his most 'unique' harmony was already in use in the latter part of the 19th century... or perhaps even earlier.

I'd NEVER challenge you to a movie duel... :P

Music's my area of expertise, and as a music instructor, I can't help but be fascinated by these topics, and feel an insatiable urge to respond to that which I feel is inaccurate. But hey - I'm impressed that you have noted the difficulty that clas sical chamber music presents. Most people don't even know what it is.

[QUOTE="MrPenguinKing"]

[QUOTE="ak618"]I disagree with the original statement. Talent is too subjective. I believe musical talent is the ability to make music or contribute to making music that people like to listen to. It's as simple as that. I don't like to listen to Jethro Tull music, but love Weezer. Jethro Tull's music takes much more technical skill but in the end Weezer, as simple as they are, sound better.pianist

:|But he's talking talent as in technical skill.

Fast music doesn't always require the greatest talent. I can tell you from experience that many of the most challenging works I've had to perform in my lifetime were slow. Playing with a beautiful sound in an exposed setting is much more difficult than amazing someone with a blaze of notes which go by so quickly that only discerning listeners can determine if the playing was actually controlled and effective. Lots of mediocre musicians camouflage poor technical control with speed, and ironically are often perceived as better musicians as a result.

Classical music owns OP :PCelldrax

Classical music FTW!!! 

Fast music doesn't always require the greatest talent. I can tell you from experience that many of the most challenging works I've had to perform in my lifetime were slow.

pianist

That's a good point. I don't know if anyone else has tried playing 'Cavatina,' the theme song to the Deer Hunter, but I've been trying for about 6 months and am not even half way through playing it correctly.

Hey, what can I say? I'm the most awesome sixteen year old around 8)
Say, what's a good Chopin compilation? I need more clas sical in my collection and Frederic Chopin is really doing it for me.lemonfreshpanda

Compilation? Hmm... you can find a great deal of his piano music in a Vladamir Ashkenazy collection. Not everything he wrote is in the collection, but many of the great masterworks are (one notable exception is the third piano sonata - but that's certainly worth the price of a separate CD). I own the collection, and it features impressive playing, though many don't care for Ashkenazy's interpretations of Chopin. Here's a link to a site with a bunch of sound samples. If you like what you hear, try to find the collection for less than what's posted on this site:

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1169562/a/Chopin:+The+Piano+Works+%2F+Vladimir+Ashkenazy.htm

[QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"]

Or by ingenuity.

 

I mean, Alex Lifeson literally INVENTED whole new chords.

pianist

That's just not possible anymore. I don't even need to hear the music to know with certainty that he didn't invent anything harmonic. Given the vast Western repertoire (all genres), it is no longer possible to invent harmony without resorting to microtonality. Harmony has been utterly and totally exhausted from the vertical point of view when it comes to 12-tone music (a category that encompasses nearly all Western music). Even horizontal progressions have been more or less exhausted, in that all that's left is not especially appealing to the ear.

Lifeson may have been the first to use certain chords in his genre, but they were in existence before him. I wouldn't be surprised if his most 'unique' harmony was already in use in the latter part of the 19th century... or perhaps even earlier.

I'd NEVER challenge you to a movie duel... :P

Music's my area of expertise, and as a music instructor, I can't help but be fascinated by these topics, and feel an insatiable urge to respond to that which I feel is inaccurate. But hey - I'm impressed that you have noted the difficulty that clas sical chamber music presents. Most people don't even know what it is.

Compilation? You can find a great deal of his piano music in a Vladamir Ashkenazy collection. Not everything he wrote is in the collection, but many of the great masterworks are (one notable exception is the third piano sonata - but that's certainly worth the price of a separate CD). I own the collection, and it features impressive playing, though many don't care for Ashkenazy's interpretations of Chopin. Here's a link to a site with a bunch of sound samples. If you like what you hear, try to find the collection for less than what's posted on this site:

I would definitely go with that collection if it wasn't so pricey. I'll have to check half.com.lemonfreshpanda

It's been so long that I can't even remember what I paid for it. But this is classical music - I'm almost certain you can find it for less than that.

[QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"]

I would definitely go with that collection if it wasn't so pricey. I'll have to check half.com.pianist

It's been so long that I can't even remember what I paid for it. But this is classical music - I'm almost certain you can find it for less than that.

[QUOTE="lemonfreshpanda"][QUOTE="1ND1FF3R3NT"]

Tool is influenced by all of those bands you mentioned, and they are every bit as talented if not more so. If you don't listen to them, you really should. It's not "metal" at all, and it is extremely progressive.

El_Fanboy

maynard dude, maynard. 

My thoughts exactly...one of the most accomplished and original vocalists in the music industry. Not to mention Justin Chancellor, who is a hell of a bass player. And Adam Jones may not display a lot of speed and flash, but he is about the most creative and complementary guitarist you could possibly ask for. Everyone in Tool is certainly way above average.

But yes, Danny Carey is definitely the most widely respected member of Tool in his field. In fact, I believe it was Neal Peart (or maybe Mike Portnoy?) who labeled Danny Carey as the most versatile drummer in the world right now. And I happen to be a serious drummer, so that may be part of the reason why I love Tool as much as I do.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]There exists talent amongst all music genre...there is no one "most' talented genre. I suggest a bit of variety in your music catalog.:)pianist

Usually I agree with you, but not here.  In the same way that we can distinguish a Grade 1 piano piece from a Grade 10 piano piece, or a short pop song from a Mahler symphony, we can classify what genre presents the greatest challenges to performers, and which genre has demanded the most (or perhaps simply received the most strenuous contributions) from its composers.  Classical music and jazz tend to win both categories fairly easily, and classical music has an overall edge on jazz, especially with respect to composition.

One thing....I wasn't comparing classical music to modern music.  I doubt any song of any kind is as complex. I was referring to the various other similiarly related genres....ie, the rock music family.  Whether someone chooses prog or another genre does not make their musical talent more or less.  

Prog doesn't stand miles above musicians in the other styles of rock, and, in fact, for the most part,   I haven't noticed a huge leap in talent amongst the musicians. 

Prog rock is the best? You ARE kidding right?

Go to the Necrophagist dungeon and dload one of the tracks from Epitaph .... you have no idea!

Also check out Secret Chiefs 3 "Book Of Horizons" - TALENT

there are many prog rock bands doing great music today, here are some examples of modern prog

spocks beard
the flower kings
the tangent
transatlantic
frost
deluge grander
estradasphere
godpseed you black emperor
a silver mount zion
kayo dot
sleepytime gorilla museum
wolverine

anyone know these bands?

Film-Guy

Estradasphere cranked out two great albums! Dunno if i'd consider them "prog rock"? Their latest effort was a disaster, time to call it quits ... and i was FAR from impressed with sleepytime gorilla... but i'm hard to please

Prog metal>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prog rock

Seriously, I find alot of prog rock simply BORING (I.E. Pink Floyd, granted I love Another Brick in the Wall) but then when it comes to prog metal, some of my fav bands are prog metal! Bands like Opeth and Nevermore are freaking great!

BTW Tool is one of the most insanely overrated bands ever. I can't stand their tendency to stay on the same chords in alot of their songs......

Hell, like A Perfect Circle more than Tool.... 

sorry to burst your bubble, but these two guys own your guys to heaven and back, not even an comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3M2X4ZAH_w

sorry to burst your bubble, but these two guys own your guys to heaven and back, not even an comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3M2X4ZAH_w

0diablo0

LMAO, you did NOT just post a link to a Dragonforce song!

You do realize they speed up their studio recordings. On top of that, Herman Li has one hell of a time playing their already simplistic music.

After all, they tend to stray away from lots of note changes....