Insane - Girl fined for defending herself

This isn't good vs evil. Both the guy and the woman are in the wrong and they both should be punished.

toast_burner

This is absolutely about good vs evil. No one has any idea what the guy planned on doing with the girl. The only thing that's for certain is it wasn't going to be something nice. Secondly, she's pretty much a damn child. I don't expect her to follow a use of force model like a cop would. I don't even expect her to KNOW about escalating and deescalating force. There is no reason why this girl should be fined. At most she should receive a warning and sent on her way.

[quote="Edinburgh Evening News"]No charges were brought against Docherty.WhiteKnight77

Oh. Damn, that's nuts.

Perhaps he didn't want to be fined. Palantas

I don't think anyone's really defending him. They're more critcizing her.

Palantas

Either way, it's sad.

I don't think you guys understand. When you are in a state of extreme fear, you do EVERYTHING to defend yourself. After somebody is knocked out, you may not totally realize what is going on and you may still be kicking the guy even though he is unconcious.

[QUOTE="Palantas"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

She did something unnessiary and was fined for it. It nothing wrong with that at all.

stanleycup98

I don't think that untrained personnel should be held accountable for excessive force, particularly when the level of force used only escalated in degree, not in kind. She never attacked him with any sort of weapon or firearm (escalating force); she just kept hitting him. If a soldier used excessive force in a situation, and then it was discovered that he hadn't been trained to use a continuum of force, he would get in no trouble at all (usually). But here we've got a whole bunch of people expecting a civilian to respond cooly and rationally in a situation like this.

A fine is absolutely the most punishment I think she should receive, and the amount should be small compared to her income.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

He got what he deserved. It's sad that people would actually defend this guy.

Shmiity

I totally disagree. A strange man follows a young girl home; attacks her. He's clearly not there to do anything nice. Theyre not going out for tea. He deserves everything he got. I have no sympathy for attackers, thieves, people wo break into your home ect. They deserve the worst.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[quote="Edinburgh Evening News"]No charges were brought against Docherty.Palantas

Oh. Damn, that's nuts.

That was the reason for my original post. Not one person has slagged Scotland for such a crazy deal, yet if such a thing happened in the US, people would be jumping all over the US for such things happening. It's all about the double standard of this forum.

Oh well, it is time for me to get to bed, 5PM comes early and I need sleep before work tonight.

I agree that he deserved to be punished. thats not really relevant. The girl kicks an unconcious guy in the head and could have killed him, what she did was stupid and wrong.toast_burner

She didn't know he was unconcious. She was scared and had her adrenaline going. What the hell do you expect her to do? Check and see if he's okay? She probably thought he was going to rape her. Seriously, what the hell do you expect the victim of an assault to do?

Don't hand me that. She would have been completely within her rights to murder that guy if she had a weapon on her. That would be a lot worse than kicking a guy after he's down.BMD004

If she used a weapon she would be in a whole load of ****

He was on her property (or the place that she lived at which is good enough) and he attacked her. If you ask me i'd say his life was pretty much forfeit at that point. It doesn't matter that he was unconscious. Dangerous people like that shouldn't be able to be in society to harm innocent people. The justice system is obviously flawed. She wasn't too violent, she was simply doing what the justice system should already be doing: protect other people from being victims. I have no sympathy for him and the girl didn't do anything wrong.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Don't hand me that. She would have been completely within her rights to murder that guy if she had a weapon on her. That would be a lot worse than kicking a guy after he's down.toast_burner

If she used a weapon she would be in a whole load of ****

He was on her property (or the place that she lived at which is good enough) and he attacked her. If you ask me i'd say his life was pretty much forfeit at that point.

hoola

That's the case in some US states. That is, the law is on the side of the person who is not the agressor, and they are not required to be knowledgeable in using measured force (the way everyone here is, apparently). I doubt that's the case in Britain.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Don't hand me that. She would have been completely within her rights to murder that guy if she had a weapon on her. That would be a lot worse than kicking a guy after he's down.BMD004

If she used a weapon she would be in a whole load of ****

The real facepalm worthy part of this story is the fact that the boyfriend didnothing to help her out. :|

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Pocession of an illegal firearm can get you 5+ years in prision. Having any other type of weapon (such as knifes) could also land you in prision.

If she used a weapon she would be in a whole load of ****

toast_burner

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]What if the man broke into her house and attacked her and she stabbed him with a kitchen knife?BMD004

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="toast_burner"] The house would become a crime scene. If they can find signs of a struggle that show it was in self defence then she would be found innocent

toast_burner

[QUOTE="toast_burner"][QUOTE="BMD004"]Wouldn't she always be innocent until they can prove that she did something wrong?BMD004

"No charges were brought against Docherty."Rattlesnake_8

I've always thought that the law of the UK loved its criminals more than its citizens.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="toast_burner"] Theres a dead body in her house. Thats quite alot of proof that shes not innocent.toast_burner

[QUOTE="toast_burner"][QUOTE="BMD004"]Backwards thinking is backwards. Just because there is a dead body doesn't mean legally she did anything wrong. In the U.S., people are innocent of any wrong-doing until it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty of a crime.

BMD004

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Killing someone isn't legally wrong?toast_burner

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Killing someone isn't legally wrong?toast_burner

Well, no. You'd have to first prove it was self-defence wouldn't you?

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Not when it is self-defense. broken_bass_bin

Well, no. You'd have to first prove it was self-defence wouldn't you?

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Killing someone isn't legally wrong?toast_burner

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Not when it is self-defense. broken_bass_bin

Well, no. You'd have to first prove it was self-defence wouldn't you?

I don't think you guys understand. When you are in a state of extreme fear, you do EVERYTHING to defend yourself. After somebody is knocked out, you may not totally realize what is going on and you may still be kicking the guy even though he is unconcious.

BMD004

Yeah, this girl isn't some highly trained solider. She is a civilian, with probably no amount of combat training. It isn't like some video game where you can target legs or arms and bring down someone without killing them, you need training for that. She was put in a fight or flight position so like you said she was doing everything to defend herself

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Not when it is self-defense. BMD004

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]So if I kill someone and say it was self defense then they must take my word for it and let me go scot free? That sounds like a terrible idea

toast_burner

That is a fair penalty. She should have stopped kicking him but it was good she didn't get a criminal charge.

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]So if I kill someone and say it was self defense then they must take my word for it and let me go scot free? That sounds like a terrible idea

toast_burner

At first I was confused. But after reading the article, I understand why she was fined and she should have been fined. I fully support them fining her.

[QUOTE="xTheExploited"]NO punishment is required for this situation.MushroomWig

[QUOTE="MushroomWig"][QUOTE="xTheExploited"]NO punishment is required for this situation.AmazonTreeBoa

This isn't excessive force.. Excessive force would be like ending a shoving match with blowing the guys head off because you felt threatened.. This is assault, after the perp became unconcious, and she continued beating him.. This no longer was about defence..

Let me add that I do feel the guy should have also had charged brought against him. He did after all attack her.

[QUOTE="AmazonTreeBoa"]

[QUOTE="MushroomWig"][QUOTE="xTheExploited"]NO punishment is required for this situation.sSubZerOo

This isn't excessive force.. Excessive force would be like ending a shoving match with blowing the guys head off because you felt threatened.. This is assault, after the perp became unconcious, and she continued beating him.. This no longer was about defence..

"No charges were brought against Docherty." WHAT? A man in a balaclava attacks a girl. She is lucky enough to defend herself and she gets a fine while he gets off? What is the world coming too? She did a great job kicking him after his was down and out. Who wouldn't? Why would you risk him being able to get up and do what he wanted with you? Amazing, justice system fails so hard.Rattlesnake_8

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="I"]

Clearly. And what are you standards for determining this? What do you do for a living? Presumably you're either in medicine or law enforcement.

Palantas

You don't need to be an expert to know that if someone is on the floor not moving then they are knocked out

Maybe, maybe not. I've been witness to and been involved in several fights where a person (or me) has been knocked down for a few seconds, then got back up to continue the fight. As I already noted, real fights do not follow boxing rules.You think she had any zip ties handy? Then she could have just cuffed him and called the police. You know, done the sensible procedure that I'm sure everyone here would execute when attacked.

I was just going to say that about the zip ties. If I'm attacked in the middle of the night by a guy with a god damn balaclava, I'm going to try and kill him or at least knock him out, and make SURE he is knocked out, by force. What other way does she have of detaining him? Waiting until the police arrive giving him time to get back up? I don't think she carries zip ties in here back pocket... I'm betting most of the people here have never fought someone. You can definitely be knocked out or dazed for a few seconds then get back up.

[QUOTE="Palantas"]

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

You don't need to be an expert to know that if someone is on the floor not moving then they are knocked out

SpartanMSU

Maybe, maybe not. I've been witness to and been involved in several fights where a person (or me) has been knocked down for a few seconds, then got back up to continue the fight. As I already noted, real fights do not follow boxing rules.You think she had any zip ties handy? Then she could have just cuffed him and called the police. You know, done the sensible procedure that I'm sure everyone here would execute when attacked.

I was just going to say that about the zip ties. If I'm attacked in the middle of the night by a guy with a god damn balaclava, I'm going to try and kill him or at least knock him out, and make SURE he is knocked out, by force. What other way does she have of detaining him? Waiting until the police arrive giving him time to get back up? I don't think she carries zip ties in here back pocket... I'm betting most of the people here have never fought someone. You can definitely be knocked out or dazed for a few seconds then get back up.

If her Boyfriend was with her and kocked the guy out when she proceeded to kick him, then I am in agreement with this being a decent judgement.

If her boyfriend wasn't with her then she could have killed him and I wouldn't even think twice about it. The guy would have had it coming.

she got off easy if you ask me.. once the threat has been neutralized it is over weezyfb

Got off easy? She was attacked. She is the victim and was defending herself. The threat may of been neutralized but it is hard to think clearly after you got jumped by a man in a ski mask; she is not a trained police officer or solider so she doesn't have the training to know when to stop defending herself.

remove the "-" from the title and it's fixed.