is having a gun a right?

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TacticalDesire

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#51 TacticalDesire
Member since 2010 • 10713 Posts

[QUOTE="TacticalDesire"]

First of all your making the assumption that if the situation described above were to arise, that just because automatic weapons were illegal, that people in a desperate situation against a rogue government would be unable to find and use them. If you think that is true, then it seems you are not acknowledging human history or society as a whole.

Additionally, Syria's situation is completely different, and it's really ridiculous to even compare. Syria represents a dictatorial style of government where un-opposed elections are held, so yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that an identical situation will not arise anytime in the near future in the U.S.

Wasdie

Actually you don't know a thing about weapons imports.

Why do you think Russia is vetoing UN action in Syria? Weapon sales.

The problem with the USA is it's surrounded by water. It's a logistical nightmare. You would never be able to get the kind of weapons you would need inside the country if they didn't already exist here. Luckily they do.

Second, the reason why we have that right written into the constitution is to prevent a situation like Syria from ever arising. The idea isn't that we can defend our property if some criminal comes along, the very idea of having the right to weapons is so that when you are being pushed you can push right back. It's a massive deterrent. You won't see a situation like Syria because we have the access to guns in the first place.

As for having legal fully automatic weapons it's kind of pointless if you know anything about firearms. There is a reason why the M16A4 rifle doesn't even have a fully automatic mode and no solider outside of a support gunner is going to use fully automatic on any assault rifle that actually supports that mode.

As long as we can buy 5.56x45, 5.56x39, and 7.62x39 ammo and the weapons to fire that ammo, having full auto is a moot point.

Actually yes, plenty of outside supporters could get the weaponry into the U.S. Items are smuggled in on a daily basis, in fact there is weaponry being smuggled into Syria this very moment. And you seem to forget that while largely surrounded by water, the U.S. has two sides that feature land borders.

Additionally, you seem to act a though having this "right" will prevent a situation like Syria's from arising, when in reality the right itself will do little in the way of prevention, and would only theoretically come into play afterwards. Hell, in Yemen AK-47s are completely legal, and yet there is as much turmoil there as anywhere.

Another interesting point is where do you want to draw the line, should RPG-7s also be available to civilians, after all the government has them. What about the right for civilians to build there own biological or nuclear weapons is that also something that should be allowed for "self defense" against the government.

Oh, and your last paragraph essentially proves my original point.

BTW, in the future I would avoid overreaching, rather rude and abrasive statements like "Actually you don't know anything about weapon imports" when that hadn't even been a topic of conversation prior to your last post.

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#52 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing :P but i think if someone wanted to kill another person and they could just go to their local gun store and buy a handgun right then and there, they would do that. but i could be wrong, i'm sure every case is different.

i don't know if this is particularly, relevant, but i've heard that you're more likely to be killed by someone you know than someone you don't know.

needled24-7

I don't even really know what I was quoting from you. Just felt like the appropriate time to use something from Criminal Minds. :P

It's sad when that show provides better profiling information than the briefings we get at work.

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k2theswiss

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#53 k2theswiss
Member since 2007 • 16599 Posts
yup IT"S A RIGHT, you have the right to arm your self to protect your self. Any one want that be tossed out is messed up in their head. IF they believe it brings more crime then they need look up the facts about people who legal own a gun and people who own one illegal. 90% of all crimes related to guns are illegal guns. 40% of those guns come from south America and 50% comes from Mexico. Only 10% comes from people who owns one legally. ALSO with that said it also decreases the willing people from committing crimes of the chance of them having gun. You take the right for people bare arms. your crime rate is going shoot up.
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wiifan001

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#54 wiifan001
Member since 2007 • 18660 Posts

2nd Amendment, Bill of Rights.

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dercoo

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#56 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

Hmm, found OT oddly more pro-gun then I thought

I like/approve

Incidentally, anyone have a ccw

Mine currently in the process of filing,

unfortunately through US Postal:(

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deactivated-57e5de5e137a4

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#57 deactivated-57e5de5e137a4
Member since 2004 • 12929 Posts
It is in the US. It's our second amendment. I can appreciate other countries that can ban them, but I want to keep it in the US.
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starfox15

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#58 starfox15
Member since 2006 • 3988 Posts

i think the right to own a gun should never be taken away. the thought of a government or establishment taking away that right is crazy and dangerous. what are your thoughts?ZumaJones07

I think guns kill people and the statistics speak for themselves. There are a lot more gun related deaths in the US than a country such as Japan for instance. This is due to the fact that Japanese civilians are not allowed to own guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

The US is #4. Underneath some of the most tattered and poorly corrupted places on the map.

Ridiculous. Not only that, but it's rarely in self-defense against say, an intruder. The majority of gun violence is associated with family members.

This nonsense could be avoided if there were more gun control laws, but that's not the way we're headed and the US will probably never adopt stricter gun control. The NRA is one of the most powerful and wealthy lobbying groups in the world and will continue to exert it's power as long as it has the money and support that it needs.

"From my cold, dead hands!"

Thanks Heston. Just what this country needs, more guns for everyone. If people want to own a gun, then more power to them, but I will quietly protest gun ownership by never purchasing a firearm for any reason.

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starfox15

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#59 starfox15
Member since 2006 • 3988 Posts

http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun_violence_statistics.asp

Here's some more facts for gun violence/homocide/crime.

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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#60 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

No it's not. I don't have any reason to own a gun, therefore I'm not legally allowed to own one.

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willzthegamer

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#61 willzthegamer
Member since 2012 • 95 Posts

Wow, you crazy Americans.

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SPYDER0416

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#62 SPYDER0416
Member since 2008 • 16736 Posts

I actually love guns, but I don't know why. I love cars too, and really I like anything that is nice and shiny and pricy and fun to use.

I dream of one day having a house, with a room obscured by a bookcase. Behind that bookcase will be a white room without windows, full of sweet guns, just like in that GTA 2 intro video and in Hitman: Blood Money.

I'm probably crazy, but I think it would be rad, and I like shooting guns for sport. Not really into hunting, and I doubt I'll ever need to use one for self defense (though I may).

So I very much am glad its a right, it causes issues, but at least it means we can defend ourselves.

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tenaka2

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#63 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

i think the right to own a gun should never be taken away. the thought of a government or establishment taking away that right is crazy and dangerous. what are your thoughts?ZumaJones07

lol gun nut. What are you guys like?

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tomo90

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#64 tomo90
Member since 2005 • 2245 Posts

I don't think it's a right if you mean in the sense of a human right. Whenever I hear anyone say, 'Oh gun ownership is a human right' I facepalm. That's suggesting that all those counties that don't have laws which allow the ownership of firearms are suppressing their citizens human rights, which is just not true. I think it is essential however in countries like the U.S, gun ownership has penetrated so deep into U.S soceity that it would be near insane to prevent families and citizens from being able to protect themselves. So yes, U.S citizens should be allowed firearms but NO NO NO, it is not a human right.

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tjricardo089

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#65 tjricardo089
Member since 2010 • 7429 Posts

I don't know, I think the criminality rate would go up a lot.

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AutoPilotOn

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#66 AutoPilotOn
Member since 2010 • 8655 Posts
Of course it is.
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sAndroid17

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#67 sAndroid17
Member since 2005 • 8715 Posts

meh, having a gun only causes problems

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TheShadowLord07

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#68 TheShadowLord07
Member since 2006 • 23083 Posts

http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun_violence_statistics.asp

Here's some more facts for gun violence/homocide/crime.

starfox15

thats bad if its true. like really bad.

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SUD123456

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#69 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 7055 Posts

I don't disagree with the opening comment: no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to have a gun, subject to minor administrative burdens like a wait time.

However, at the exact same time I think it is prima facia evidence of a severely broken culture when a large % of people actually believeit is necessary to do so for security reasons, either in relation to other citizens, or their own gov't.

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deactivated-5d1cb98d088e5

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#70 deactivated-5d1cb98d088e5
Member since 2009 • 4084 Posts

I'm for guns and the second amendment. I hate to quote the man, because he was an absolute bastard but Adolf Hitler once said "An armed populace is a citizenship. The un-armed populace are subjects."

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#71 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

"An armed populace is a citizenship. The un-armed populace are subjects."

BATTOSAI76

And why is that exactly?

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markop2003

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#72 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts
Depends on the country, the type of gun and the person who has it. Rights are a concept created by legislators they don't just 'exist'. [QUOTE="ZumaJones07"]i think the right to own a gun should never be taken away.

So a prisoner should be able to bring their howitzer with them to prison?
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deactivated-5d1cb98d088e5

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#73 deactivated-5d1cb98d088e5
Member since 2009 • 4084 Posts

[QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"]

"An armed populace is a citizenship. The un-armed populace are subjects."

toast_burner

And why is that exactly?

An armed populace can defend it's self against foreign powers (should the military fail), defend their homes, and if need be, defend themselves from their government. When the populace is un-armed they become subjects to anyone who is, which is very bad imo.

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#74 deactivated-5a9b3f32ef4e9
Member since 2009 • 7779 Posts

We use knives here - much more personal.

:P

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T_REX305

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#75 T_REX305
Member since 2010 • 11304 Posts

I'm not American but I think it's in the first or second amendment in there constitution?

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iskeethunters

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#77 iskeethunters
Member since 2011 • 925 Posts
Americans. Nothing to do here.
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Justforvisit

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#78 Justforvisit
Member since 2011 • 2660 Posts

Crime rate would go up? Hum, strange that most countries who don't have this "right to bear arms" don't have so much issues with them, of course there are gun related crimes and deaths as well, but I never heard of toys / medicaments / books / whatever for guns exchange programs in these countries.

Also, "if the military fails" means the other military has won, and I highly sincerely doubt single private persons, as well armed as they may be stand the slightest chance versus a whole foreign army. Also most of the people in WW II in germany didn't really followed A.H. because they believed in the stuff he said (some high rankings ideals did so the whole situation could break loose at all), but because they just were afraid of what he'd do to his own countrymen when they didn't obey, people where hung on improved gallows at lampposts if they dared to oppose, usually with scardboard signs and some paroles written on it around their neck. The reason he said that was because they were losing the war and he in his despair tried to get as many firearms as he could, even bear children with arms.

WW II Germany gave up and that fortunatly was the right way to do so, today it's one of the european most important and advanced democraticnations.

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Kcinz

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#79 Kcinz
Member since 2012 • 810 Posts
I believe that gun rights should be abolished. With all the drive-by's, school shootings, murders, and more, I think we should just leave guns to the military and law enforcement.
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AutoPilotOn

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#80 AutoPilotOn
Member since 2010 • 8655 Posts
Wow I can't believe people here are so willing to give up their rights.. Op is so liberal I guess it should surprise me. Glad people here don't make the laws.
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Gaming-Planet

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#81 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21106 Posts

It's like taking away a horn off an animal to defend itself.

We have the mind and the technology, so why not use it when it's needed?

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Ingenemployee

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#82 Ingenemployee
Member since 2007 • 2307 Posts

I believe that gun rights should be abolished. With all the drive-by's, school shootings, murders, and more, I think we should just leave guns to the military and law enforcement.Kcinz

No thanks. I would rather keep my right to own a firearm.

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WhiteKnight77

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#83 WhiteKnight77
Member since 2003 • 12605 Posts

yes, its for keeping the King of England outta your face and shooting dangerous or delicious animals.Allicrombie

/thread

[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"]i think the right to own a gun should never be taken away. the thought of a government or establishment taking away that right is crazy and dangerous. what are your thoughts?starfox15

I think guns kill people and the statistics speak for themselves. There are a lot more gun related deaths in the US than a country such as Japan for instance. This is due to the fact that Japanese civilians are not allowed to own guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

The US is #4. Underneath some of the most tattered and poorly corrupted places on the map.

Ridiculous. Not only that, but it's rarely in self-defense against say, an intruder. The majority of gun violence is associated with family members.

This nonsense could be avoided if there were more gun control laws, but that's not the way we're headed and the US will probably never adopt stricter gun control. The NRA is one of the most powerful and wealthy lobbying groups in the world and will continue to exert it's power as long as it has the money and support that it needs.

"From my cold, dead hands!"

Thanks Heston. Just what this country needs, more guns for everyone. If people want to own a gun, then more power to them, but I will quietly protest gun ownership by never purchasing a firearm for any reason.

Switzerland is a place where every man owns a weapon, courtesy of the Swiss Army (all men have to serve for a period of time), yet there are no murders, or at least none heard of at least here in the US.

The simple fact is, gun control laws only target those who wish to buy guns legally. Criminals, in other words those who do not abide by laws, by nature are not hampered by said laws. Do you honestly think that they will go to a gun dealer and fill out paperwork and wait ten days to buy a gun? They will break into peoples houses and look for them or buy them via other means, often illegal in and of themself.

Even if you got criminals to turn in weapons, the instrument used for crime will just shift to either knives or baseball bats or something else. Great Britian has found out how effective it was at reducing crime. Sure there are not as many deaths or murder by guns, but the use of knives and baseball bats has increased. It is not the instrument used that is the problem, it is the person holding such implement. That is what many people fail to understand. A violent person, intent on causing harm, doesn't really care what he or she uses, they are going to be violent no matter what.

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WhiteKnight77

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#84 WhiteKnight77
Member since 2003 • 12605 Posts

I believe that gun rights should be abolished. With all the drive-by's, school shootings, murders, and more, I think we should just leave guns to the military and law enforcement.Kcinz
See my above post.

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Planeforger

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#85 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 20089 Posts

It's like taking away a horn off an animal to defend itself.

Gaming-Planet

Uh, horned animals live out in the wild, where predators could eat them at any moment. Protection seems like an invaluable tool out there.

Meanwhile, humans...well, humans in first-world countries would ideally be quite safe in their daily environments, protected by the law, systems of society, good educations, etc. I don't really see why they'd need horns, so to speak. Then again, perhaps I'm just biased since I live in a nation where gun deaths are quite rare.

Anyway, if this thread is just about America, then yes, it's obviously a right. Enshrined in law, and all that.

If this thread is about whether the right to bear arms is a universal human right, then I'm pretty sure that the answer is officially 'no' at present.

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Syk0_k03r

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#86 Syk0_k03r
Member since 2008 • 1147 Posts

No, guns are weak.

Now a harrier jump jet...

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#87 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

Depends on which country you live in. In the states, ownership of a smiple firearm is a right. You cant buy a tank or missle, but you can own a licensed handgun if you are not a prior criminal or have mental instability. While I think gun ownership may increase the likelihood of serious injury to you, I still agree that people should be allowed to choose.

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th3warr1or

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#88 th3warr1or
Member since 2007 • 20637 Posts
Civilians owning weapons has ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, been a necessity for protection from threats both foreign and domestic.
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BuryMe

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#89 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"]i think the right to own a gun should never be taken away. the thought of a government or establishment taking away that right is crazy and dangerous. what are your thoughts?DaJuicyMan
Agreed. How else do I have a chance of fighting back against a physically abusive law enforcement system?

The weapons that law enforcement has acces to are WAY more powerful than what you have the right to own.

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pie-junior

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#90 pie-junior
Member since 2007 • 2866 Posts
Is the New Topic button a right?VanHelsingBoA64
Doesn't matter. Compelling state interest to take it away.
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BuryMe

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#91 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

Yeah. It should be noted that our founding fathers gave us this right as a way to protect ourselves if our government were to become oppressive though. It happened to them, and they wanted to make sure that those who came after them did not ruin everything they had fought for. It wasn't for personal self defense, which is usually the argument today over whether we should have guns or not. Well it probably was a little bit, but more so for the oppressive government thing. When they take away your rights, shoot'em.tylergamereview
The ONLY protection a gun can offer is personal self defence against physical harm.

How does a person having a gun prevent the government from enacting oppresive legislation? No matter how much you hate what the governmnet is doing, shooting a government official is still a crime and will land you serious jail time.

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BuryMe

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#92 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

In the US it is, anyways. I'm pretty sure Canada also has gun ownership listed as a right.

Verge_6

Nope.

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layton2012

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#93 layton2012
Member since 2011 • 3489 Posts
According to the second amendment it is but IMO, it should be a privilege, in which the privilege to bear arms can be taken away if you get into any criminal activity in which you shall never be given the privilege back. Yeah and on the remark of the founders views of the right to bear arms, yeah they thought everyone should have their right to own a musket not a machine gun, guns are much different than they were in the 1700s and much more dangerous.
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WhiteKnight77

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#94 WhiteKnight77
Member since 2003 • 12605 Posts

Depends on which country you live in. In the states, ownership of a smiple firearm is a right. You cant buy a tank or missle, but you can own a licensed handgun if you are not a prior criminal or have mental instability. While I think gun ownership may increase the likelihood of serious injury to you, I still agree that people should be allowed to choose.

sonicare

Actually, you can buy tanks as Jacques Littlefield had quite a collection of them, including an Abrahms M1 as seen at Questions surround collection of tanks and The Jacques Littlefield Military Vehicle Collection.

Missiles on the other hand might be a bit more harder to come buy though if one really wanted, could do mockups of them for fighter aircraft that can also be privately owned.

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lancea34

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#95 lancea34
Member since 2007 • 6912 Posts

I really can't think of a situation where having an armed population can be usefull appart from a zombie invasion.

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codymcclain14

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#96 codymcclain14
Member since 2010 • 6017 Posts

I really can't think of a situation where having an armed population can be usefull appart from a zombie invasion.

lancea34
Lets say Russia invades the US... Yeah, everybody with guns. That's gonna be tough for the Russians. :P Even though they will probably have big, tanks and sh!t...
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lancea34

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#97 lancea34
Member since 2007 • 6912 Posts

[QUOTE="lancea34"]

I really can't think of a situation where having an armed population can be usefull appart from a zombie invasion.

codymcclain14

Lets say Russia invades the US... Yeah, everybody with guns. That's gonna be tough for the Russians. :P Even though they will probably have big, tanks and sh!t...



I wouldn't worry too much about the ruskies, they're always too drunk to do anything right. :lol: jk

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Am_Confucius

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#98 Am_Confucius
Member since 2011 • 3229 Posts
[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"]i think the right to own a gun should never be taken away. the thought of a government or establishment taking away that right is crazy and dangerous. what are your thoughts?

God no. How is taking away a WEAPON dangerous? Look at Sweden for example.
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WhiteKnight77

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#99 WhiteKnight77
Member since 2003 • 12605 Posts

[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"]i think the right to own a gun should never be taken away. the thought of a government or establishment taking away that right is crazy and dangerous. what are your thoughts?Am_Confucius
God no. How is taking away a WEAPON dangerous? Look at Sweden for example.

Look at England.

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codymcclain14

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#100 codymcclain14
Member since 2010 • 6017 Posts

[QUOTE="codymcclain14"][QUOTE="lancea34"]

I really can't think of a situation where having an armed population can be usefull appart from a zombie invasion.

lancea34

Lets say Russia invades the US... Yeah, everybody with guns. That's gonna be tough for the Russians. :P Even though they will probably have big, tanks and sh!t...



I wouldn't worry too much about the ruskies, they're always too drunk to do anything right. :lol: jk

haha, true. Well maybe Chinia? .. if only they didn't already own us. :P

Damn, now that I think of it, I can't think of a Country that could/would invade the US... :