is having a gun a right?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

ITT some people dont get the difference between having a (shall we call it) philosophical discussion about rights and a legal discussion about rights where you just go by what the law says.

If the topic was created with the latter in mind then it would be pointless: the TC would just go look up what the laws of each country stated about gun ownership.

guynamedbilly

However the definition of a right is as follows (oh yes I went there lol):

a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way (from the oxford dictionary online)

...and as you see it can refer both to legal and moral entitlements. Moral entitlements however are often not in line with the law.

If the topic was created with the latter in mind then it would be pointless: the TC would just go look up what the laws of each country stated about gun ownership.Teenaged

[QUOTE="IustitiaMaximus"]

[QUOTE="pie-junior"] Who says they have that right?pie-junior

[QUOTE="IustitiaMaximus"]

Who says they have that right?pie-junior

do you think gun owners are more likely to deprive someone of the right to life than non gun owners? considering guns are specifically designed for the sole purose of taking a life... it seems like a logical step.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]If the topic was created with the latter in mind then it would be pointless: the TC would just go look up what the laws of each country stated about gun ownership.T_P_O

I have the right to be petting my dog on my couch right now. Nowhere does any law dictate that I have that right. thegerg

It is a law. It's commonlaw- In this case it easily falls within the context of the substantive due process in the 14th amendment, the "other rights" in the 9th amendment or the penumbras of the original bill of rights; In England- it would derive from constitutional principles; in Canda it would derive from the autonomy right in the candaian charter of human rights.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

[QUOTE="pie-junior"][QUOTE="thegerg"]It depends on the situation surrounding the killing.thegerg

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] There is nothing we are guaranteed. If it is necessary to you that something be guaranteed for it to be a right, then I hope you're happy living in a world with no rights. thegerg

No rights, as we know them, are inherent just by being born a human. Nature doesn't respect our superiority and doesn't grant us any rights. That's why we build societies, so that we can further protect our right to continue being a human. Anything added to that standard is extra, and in the context of guns in this topic, is the reason they are called rights. There is no natural right to own a gun. There is a social right to own a gun, though.

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

ITT some people dont get the difference between having a (shall we call it) philosophical discussion about rights and a legal discussion about rights where you just go by what the law says.

If the topic was created with the latter in mind then it would be pointless: the TC would just go look up what the laws of each country stated about gun ownership.

Teenaged

However the definition of a right is as follows (oh yes I went there lol):

a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way (from the oxford dictionary online)

...and as you see it can refer both to legal and moral entitlements. Moral entitlements however are often not in line with the law.

Again, in most societies, we say that humans have the right to life. That's only because that idea is protected by our society though. If a human walks through the woods and is attacked by a bear, does he really have an inherit right to life? I think not.

It's not a right. Citizens shouldn't need guns, but Americans are too paranoid.

[QUOTE="pie-junior"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"]I have the right to be petting my dog on my couch right now. Nowhere does any law dictate that I have that right. thegerg

It is a law. It's commonlaw- In this case it easily falls within the context of the substantive due process in the 14th amendment, the "other rights" in the 9th amendment or the penumbras of the original bill of rights; In England- it would derive from constitutional principles; in Canda it would derive from the autonomy right in the candaian charter of human rights.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="thegerg"] There are certain rights that we have that re not given by law, yet still exist. For example, I have the right to be petting my dog on my couch right now. Nowhere does any law dictate that I have that right. You seem to be confused. Law need not mandate that something is a right in order for it to be a right.thegerg

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="thegerg"] There are certain rights that we have that re not given by law, yet still exist. For example, I have the right to be petting my dog on my couch right now. Nowhere does any law dictate that I have that right. You seem to be confused. Law need not mandate that something is a right in order for it to be a right.thegerg

No, strike that. There's no confusion about it.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

[QUOTE="IustitiaMaximus"] So says the supreme law of the United States -- We have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

IustitiaMaximus

do you think gun owners are more likely to deprive someone of the right to life than non gun owners? considering guns are specifically designed for the sole purose of taking a life... it seems like a logical step.

you and your family are all statistically more like to die of a gunshot wound... as a result of you being a gun owner. So im not sure how it protects your rights.

[QUOTE="IustitiaMaximus"][QUOTE="SauceKing"]

do you think gun owners are more likely to deprive someone of the right to life than non gun owners? considering guns are specifically designed for the sole purose of taking a life... it seems like a logical step.

SauceKing

you and your family are all statistically more like to die of a gunshot wound... as a result of you being a gun owner. So im not sure how it protects your rights.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"] All rights are legal.guynamedbilly

However the definition of a right is as follows (oh yes I went there lol):

a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way (from the oxford dictionary online)

...and as you see it can refer both to legal and moral entitlements. Moral entitlements however are often not in line with the law.

Again, in most societies, we say that humans have the right to life. That's only because that idea is protected by our society though. If a human walks through the woods and is attacked by a bear, does he really have an inherit right to life? I think not.

Personally I dont see the problem with that subjectivity. It's not like I'm trying to say that moral entitlements are good enough on their own to grant legal rights. That's not the reason I insist that the term refers to both. Or maybe I should say it refers to either, not to get confused and think that I am saying moral rights and legal rights are one and the same.

Of course. Rights, whether moral or legal only exist within the frame of society. Discussing them outside of this frame becomes pointless, like you example with the bear illustrates I assume. However, (written and explicit) laws dont encompass every moral right a society has thought up. Or whatever moral right an individual can think up. And always arguments about moral rights will more or less hinge on subjective reasons. And I dont necessarily see something wrong with that.

You shouldn't own a gun if you're not a policemen or any other similarities . No citizens should be allowed to BUY guns , people who sell guns to criminals are criminals themselves. Stop selling guns , crime will lower. AussieePet

Do I have the right to have biological, nuclear, or chemical arms?

[QUOTE="AussieePet"]You shouldn't own a gun if you're not a policemen or any other similarities . No citizens should be allowed to BUY guns , people who sell guns to criminals are criminals themselves. Stop selling guns , crime will lower. toast_burner

You shouldn't own a gun if you're not a policemen or any other similarities . No citizens should be allowed to BUY guns , people who sell guns to criminals are criminals themselves. Stop selling guns , crime will lower. AussieePet

One problem with that, if you ban the sale of firearms to citizens. Criminals will still get the weapons, criminals are not known for following the law.

[QUOTE="AussieePet"]You shouldn't own a gun if you're not a policemen or any other similarities . No citizens should be allowed to BUY guns , people who sell guns to criminals are criminals themselves. Stop selling guns , crime will lower. Chaos_HL21

One problem with that, if you ban the sale of firearms to citizens. Criminals will still get the weapons, criminals are not known for following the law.

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

[QUOTE="AussieePet"]You shouldn't own a gun if you're not a policemen or any other similarities . No citizens should be allowed to BUY guns , people who sell guns to criminals are criminals themselves. Stop selling guns , crime will lower. AussieePet

One problem with that, if you ban the sale of firearms to citizens. Criminals will still get the weapons, criminals are not known for following the law.

That is the problem, they will still have firearms. So they can still rob banks with firearms.

I do think it's interesting that you're more likely to kill a family member than an intruder if you own a gun.

i think the right to own a gun should never be taken away. the thought of a government or establishment taking away that right is crazy and dangerous. what are your thoughts?ZumaJones07

[QUOTE="AussieePet"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

One problem with that, if you ban the sale of firearms to citizens. Criminals will still get the weapons, criminals are not known for following the law.

Chaos_HL21

That is the problem, they will still have firearms. So they can still rob banks with firearms.

[QUOTE="AussieePet"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Police officers shouldn't have guns either.

thegerg

nope protect yourself with your fist

[QUOTE="AussieePet"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

That is the problem, they will still have firearms. So they can still rob banks with firearms.

thegerg

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

I do think it's interesting that you're more likely to kill a family member than an intruder if you own a gun.

thegerg