Is it racist to point out that races have different iq's ?

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C2N2

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#151 C2N2
Member since 2012 • 759 Posts

Is it racist to say "White people and east asians have higher iq's than african americans." (on average). For instance ?dkdk999

What you have said is racist... You would need to elaborate to make it not racist...

To elaborate and explain that African Americans were intellectually repressed for hundreds of years and held back by a racist society that continued to mold society's view of their race even after being granted equal rights which means that even in a society where they are given equal rights they are still disadvantaged by ideologies created in the past and held even to this day... To explain further that racist property laws of the past have forced many African Americans into so called "ghettos" which have low property values, thus low taxes, thus low cost/underdeveloped school systems, thus underdevloped education of youth among those communities... All of which is unique to African Americans given their history.

If you ignore all of that and simply point out that there is a lower IQ among their race; then you sir, are a piece of sh-t, and a racist.

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thebest31406

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#152 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"][QUOTE="DiIIasDonuts"] yes, because the IQ results aren't determined by their skin color, but their environment. It's the same reason the average IQ in Sweden is higher than in a place like Iraq. Classifying anything by race would be racist.TopTierHustler

I didnt say they were determined by skin color. It's still a fact. just like blacks commit more crime than whites. Im not saying it's because they are black, but they still do, it's still a fact, and it isn't racist to simply point it out

This study suggests that he's wrong and that intelligence is mainly genetic.

Here come the tears :'(

Right, one study. And not a universally accepted one.
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mingmao3046

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#153 mingmao3046
Member since 2011 • 2683 Posts

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]Is it racist to say "White people and east asians have higher iq's than african americans." (on average). For instance ?C2N2

What you have said is racist... You would need to elaborate to make it not racist...

To elaborate and explain that African Americans were intellectually repressed for hundreds of years and held back by a racist society that continued to mold society's view of their race even after being granted equal rights which means that even in a society where they are given equal rights they are still disadvantaged by ideologies created in the past and held even to this day... To explain further that racist property laws of the past have forced many African Americans into so called "ghettos" which have low property values, thus low taxes, thus low cost/underdeveloped school systems, thus underdevloped education of youth among those communities... All of which is unique to African Americans given their history.

If you ignore all of that and simply point out that there is a lower IQ among their race; then you sir, are a piece of sh-t, and a racist.

stating facts isn't racist.......
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thebest31406

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#154 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts
[QUOTE="C2N2"]

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]Is it racist to say "White people and east asians have higher iq's than african americans." (on average). For instance ?mingmao3046

What you have said is racist... You would need to elaborate to make it not racist...

To elaborate and explain that African Americans were intellectually repressed for hundreds of years and held back by a racist society that continued to mold society's view of their race even after being granted equal rights which means that even in a society where they are given equal rights they are still disadvantaged by ideologies created in the past and held even to this day... To explain further that racist property laws of the past have forced many African Americans into so called "ghettos" which have low property values, thus low taxes, thus low cost/underdeveloped school systems, thus underdevloped education of youth among those communities... All of which is unique to African Americans given their history.

If you ignore all of that and simply point out that there is a lower IQ among their race; then you sir, are a piece of sh-t, and a racist.

stating facts isn't racist.......

Except it's not a fact, it's only a study and not a widely accepted one.
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KHAndAnime

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#155 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]It's obviously a social/cultural issue and not a genetic one. It's plain as day. On average, Asians put more effort towards their education, so obviously on average they would be more educated.TopTierHustler

Education is not the same thing as intelligence.

Through education, you increase your critical thinking skills, allowing you to score higher on an IQ test. Isn't that obvious?
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CptJSparrow

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#156 CptJSparrow
Member since 2007 • 10898 Posts
Why would you want to?
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ShadowMoses900

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#157 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

According to the race IQ theory my ethnic group (Jewish) has the highest IQ. However I do not buy into this, IQ is not actually a good indicator of intelligence like many people assume.

There are actually several different areas of the brain that people can be intelligent in, for instance some people may have Lingustic intelligence, others may have Emotional intelligence etc...

This theory is skecthy at best, there isn't any real evidence to suggest it. It is a hypothesis at best. Africans are not inherently less intellignet than anyone else, they can be just as intelligent as any ethnic group.

But due to the situation many Africans face, they often do not get the best education, as many African countries are 3rd world. And even in American and other nations, many blacks were treated bad and did not get the same opportunities.

This does not mean they are less intelligent. They just didn't get an equal oppourtunity to learn. If they did I bet you they would score just as high. But like I said IQ test's do not mean as much as people like to believe they do.

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chrisrooR

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#158 chrisrooR
Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts
[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]It's obviously a social/cultural issue and not a genetic one. It's plain as day. On average, Asians put more effort towards their education, so obviously on average they would be more educated.KHAndAnime

Education is not the same thing as intelligence.

Through education, you increase your critical thinking skills, allowing you to score higher on an IQ test. Isn't that obvious?

There are different kinds of intelligence, so that depends on what you define intelligence to be.
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achilles614

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#159 achilles614
Member since 2005 • 5310 Posts
IQ tests are a load of horse crap. According to my psychology book I scored higher than 99.8% of people in the US when I was tested when I was younger :lol: yeah right
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MikeMoose

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#160 MikeMoose
Member since 2005 • 3079 Posts

[QUOTE="MikeMoose"]

Well the definition of racism is "Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.". So by definition, yes, that is textbook racism lol.

airshocker

Where in his post is he discriminating or being prejudiced?

How is labeling an entire demographic of people dumber than another demographic based on skin color not discrimination or prejudice? I'm white and know black people who are way smarter than me, and on the other hand I know plenty of Asians who don't seem to have a brain. It all depends on the person and the environment.

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thebest31406

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#161 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="MikeMoose"]

Well the definition of racism is "Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.". So by definition, yes, that is textbook racism lol.

MikeMoose

Where in his post is he discriminating or being prejudiced?

How is labeling an entire demographic of people dumber than another demographic based on skin color not discrimination or prejudice? I'm white and know black people who are way smarter than me, and on the other hand I know plenty of Asians who don't seem to have a brain. It all depends on the person and the environment.

Not to mentioned that the OP has exposed himself as being racist against Blacks by comparing multiple ethnic groups against one; demonstrating not how intelligent group A and B is but rather, demonstrating how unintelligent group C is.
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seahorse123

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#162 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts
It's stereotypes but alot of Asian parents are obsessed with studying like my parents are I used to have 3 hours extra classes when I got home
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Suzy_Q_Kazoo

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#163 Suzy_Q_Kazoo
Member since 2010 • 9899 Posts

It can be. If you're speaking purely of logistics supported by facts during a related conversation then it's fair, but if you're just being a douche and trying to cut someone down for no real reason then that is offensive.

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Zurrur

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#164 Zurrur
Member since 2009 • 1701 Posts

Nope, uneducated people have overall lower IQ

Most black people are uneducated, so its only logical that white people have higher IQ in general

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helwa1988

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#165 helwa1988
Member since 2007 • 2157 Posts
I've been to almost every corner of the world. And let me tell you, low IQ has no race. Dumb comes in all races. Stupid doesn't discriminate
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blaznwiipspman1

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#166 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16908 Posts

if its racist to point out that blacks have lower iq than other races then its also racist to point out that other races are weaker and slower than blacks. I work with a lot of blacks and while "technically" im smarter than them on iq tests (110), alot of blacks seem to have better reasoning than me, more creative at solving problems and are better with words. I do find that when it comes to math, most blacks seriously suck, I don't know why that is though. But their language skills,arts and music as well as athletics are at the elite levels imo. Alot of the english language and music is dominated by black achievements. And athletics don't need to be mentioned.

Another interesting point is that India overall has an iq of 85. Indians are considered caucasians anthropologically, and genetically they're very similar to europeans, yet their iq level is the same as blacks. Why is that? Its a dirt poor country with very poor education and nutrition.

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noscope-ak47

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#167 noscope-ak47
Member since 2012 • 1318 Posts

I am a Black-Hispanic American male and depending on the test my Iq goes from high 90's to low 100's. I still have trouble with writing english despite me being an exellent writer in spanish. That is just the nature of the beast it ia all about how you were rasied as far as I can tell. My girlfriend is Jamaican and she has her kids study at least 2 hours a day. The kids are Black and very smart those same kids if they had a different mother who did not care about school would most likely get lower grades.

Now that said what is not open to speculation is in general American Black people are more physically gifted. They dominate many sports in the pro's and there is a saying if you put it in the hood Blacks with own that sport. I as a Hispanic Black male can only go on what the white women I have had sex with have said. They claim Black men are packing vs the White guys. No homo but in the military it was the same deal the white guys for the most part knew if the Black guys hit it first it was over. Now that is genetic the mind for the most part is developed based on your surroundings.

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iowastate

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#169 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts
[QUOTE="C2N2"]

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]Is it racist to say "White people and east asians have higher iq's than african americans." (on average). For instance ?mingmao3046

What you have said is racist... You would need to elaborate to make it not racist...

To elaborate and explain that African Americans were intellectually repressed for hundreds of years and held back by a racist society that continued to mold society's view of their race even after being granted equal rights which means that even in a society where they are given equal rights they are still disadvantaged by ideologies created in the past and held even to this day... To explain further that racist property laws of the past have forced many African Americans into so called "ghettos" which have low property values, thus low taxes, thus low cost/underdeveloped school systems, thus underdevloped education of youth among those communities... All of which is unique to African Americans given their history.

If you ignore all of that and simply point out that there is a lower IQ among their race; then you sir, are a piece of sh-t, and a racist.

stating facts isn't racist.......

taking a study where the numbers have been manipulated to give the desired results and pretending that it is stating facts certainly sounds like it is racist.
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satagod1

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#170 satagod1
Member since 2012 • 31 Posts

You could look at it in a diffrent way, take geographical location and history.

Humans living in colder more hostile enviroments had to have a certain intelligence to actualy survive where heat , clothing, food and shelter needed, a higher level of inteligence to survive and overcome where they lived.

Where warmer more abundant climates , it was more advantageous to be faster, stronger and more agile.

But thats a debate about evolution ect.... :)

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juden41

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#171 juden41
Member since 2010 • 4447 Posts
As long as you seek truth, you are doing fine.
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N30F3N1X

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#172 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

taking a study where the numbers have been manipulated to give the desired results and pretending that it is stating facts certainly sounds like it is racist.iowastate

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#173 ninedot
Member since 2012 • 115 Posts
[QUOTE="ninedot"]

No, a fact cannot be racist. Racism is discrimination based on race. I see no way how stating a simple fact is discriminating a particular race.

Sajo7
It is never a "simple fact" with IQ tests though. They are pretty controversial.

Actually, having studied this in my undergrad... there is nothing "controversial" about it. IQ tests have been around for about a century and their reliability and validity have been well established. What IS controversial, however, is the fact that the consistently found differences are due to one's race. This, is NOT true. There are many factors, such as Socioeconomic status, educational opportunities, and other environmental conditions that can account for the differences found in IQ. This is, the many factors that are related to race are what cause the differences in IQ, but that is not to say that race alone causes this difference. It was once argued in the past that IQ tests were culturally biased in that they tested primarily westernized knowledge, and that this would explain why western children (compared to children of say, African descent) would score better, they were more familiar with the types of standardized questions asked. However, researchers have developed IQ tests that are essentially free of any cultural bias, only including pictures and patterns. The interesting thing is that despite removing any source of bias that may confound the result of whether races are truly equal in IQ, there still was a consistent trend that emerged in which white-Americans would score higher than African-Americans or Latino-Americans. Thus, they were controversial, and some still think they are controversial today, but to be honest, these controversies are only perpetuated by those who choose to be ignorant and ignore 100+ years of research that has established this fact. People are getting to tied up in the idea that this "fact" is trying to say that this is that case, ALL THE TIME. People need to realize that all this fact is saying is that ON AVERAGE, white Americans have a higher AVERAGE iq score then African-Americans. Key words... ON AVERAGE! This means that in any case, there will be many black people who are smarter than the average white person, as well as many white people who are dumber than the average African-American. The differences in this average are so minor, that it is almost negligible to consider. None the less, the difference still exists and people need to stop pretending that it doesn't.
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00-Riddick-00

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#174 00-Riddick-00
Member since 2009 • 18884 Posts
Only if you are white.. Since only whites can be racist..
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seahorse123

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#175 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts
Only if you are white.. Since only whites can be racist.. 00-Riddick-00
Exactly political correctness.. for example on a video game (I was playing with my younger cousin a few years ago) a character said get out of the way whities if it would of said get out of the way blackies it would of been classed racist
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Bucked20

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#176 Bucked20
Member since 2011 • 6651 Posts
[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"]Only if you are white.. Since only whites can be racist.. seahorse123
Exactly political correctness.. for example on a video game (I was playing with my younger cousin a few years ago) a character said get out of the way whities if it would of said get out of the way blackies it would of been classed racist

Its a game calm down
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seahorse123

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#177 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts
[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"]Only if you are white.. Since only whites can be racist.. Bucked20
Exactly political correctness.. for example on a video game (I was playing with my younger cousin a few years ago) a character said get out of the way whities if it would of said get out of the way blackies it would of been classed racist

Its a game calm down

An example by the way it was a kids game like for 8 year olds
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British_Azimio

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#178 British_Azimio
Member since 2007 • 2459 Posts
Definitely doesn't surprise me at all.
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Bucked20

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#179 Bucked20
Member since 2011 • 6651 Posts
[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="Bucked20"][QUOTE="seahorse123"] Exactly political correctness.. for example on a video game (I was playing with my younger cousin a few years ago) a character said get out of the way whities if it would of said get out of the way blackies it would of been classed racist

Its a game calm down

An example by the way it was a kids game like for 8 year olds

A lot of cartoons were racist towards blacks and they were aimed at kids
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seahorse123

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#180 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts
[QUOTE="Bucked20"][QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="Bucked20"] Its a game calm down

An example by the way it was a kids game like for 8 year olds

A lot of cartoons were racist towards blacks and they were aimed at kids

*cough cough* we are in the 21st century... 2012...
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achilles614

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#181 achilles614
Member since 2005 • 5310 Posts
[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="ninedot"]

No, a fact cannot be racist. Racism is discrimination based on race. I see no way how stating a simple fact is discriminating a particular race.

ninedot
It is never a "simple fact" with IQ tests though. They are pretty controversial.

Actually, having studied this in my undergrad... there is nothing "controversial" about it. IQ tests have been around for about a century and their reliability and validity have been well established. What IS controversial, however, is the fact that the consistently found differences are due to one's race. This, is NOT true. There are many factors, such as Socioeconomic status, educational opportunities, and other environmental conditions that can account for the differences found in IQ. This is, the many factors that are related to race are what cause the differences in IQ, but that is not to say that race alone causes this difference. It was once argued in the past that IQ tests were culturally biased in that they tested primarily westernized knowledge, and that this would explain why western children (compared to children of say, African descent) would score better, they were more familiar with the types of standardized questions asked. However, researchers have developed IQ tests that are essentially free of any cultural bias, only including pictures and patterns. The interesting thing is that despite removing any source of bias that may confound the result of whether races are truly equal in IQ, there still was a consistent trend that emerged in which white-Americans would score higher than African-Americans or Latino-Americans. Thus, they were controversial, and some still think they are controversial today, but to be honest, these controversies are only perpetuated by those who choose to be ignorant and ignore 100+ years of research that has established this fact. People are getting to tied up in the idea that this "fact" is trying to say that this is that case, ALL THE TIME. People need to realize that all this fact is saying is that ON AVERAGE, white Americans have a higher AVERAGE iq score then African-Americans. Key words... ON AVERAGE! This means that in any case, there will be many black people who are smarter than the average white person, as well as many white people who are dumber than the average African-American. The differences in this average are so minor, that it is almost negligible to consider. None the less, the difference still exists and people need to stop pretending that it doesn't.

But god created everyone equal.
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Bucked20

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#182 Bucked20
Member since 2011 • 6651 Posts
[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="Bucked20"][QUOTE="seahorse123"] An example by the way it was a kids game like for 8 year olds

A lot of cartoons were racist towards blacks and they were aimed at kids

*cough cough* we are in the 21st century... 2012...

So its no racism anymore
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seahorse123

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#183 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts
[QUOTE="Bucked20"][QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="Bucked20"] A lot of cartoons were racist towards blacks and they were aimed at kids

*cough cough* we are in the 21st century... 2012...

So its no racism anymore

No but you don't put racist content in a kids game in the year 2012
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Bucked20

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#184 Bucked20
Member since 2011 • 6651 Posts
[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="Bucked20"][QUOTE="seahorse123"] *cough cough* we are in the 21st century... 2012...

So its no racism anymore

No but you don't put racist content in a kids game in the year 2012

It wasn't 2012 though,you said a couple years ago
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SuperKaio-ken

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#185 SuperKaio-ken
Member since 2012 • 322 Posts

Long read, so only for those who are actually interested in the topic and have an open mind, if you get offended easily do not read.

There are are huge differences between races in terms of brain size, sexual behavior, fertility, growth rate, life span, crime and family stability.

Research finds that whites fall in the middle, while orientals are at one side of the spectrum and blacks are at the other. Research shows that in sports, black men and women in general tend to have a slight genetic advantage compared to those of other races. Blacks have narrower hips, wider shoulders, less body fat and more muscle. They also have from 3 to 19% more of the sex hormone testosterone than whites or orientals. This translates to more explosive energy which gives them a slight edge in sports like Boxing, Basketball, Football and Sprinting (If you look at these sports you will again see black dominance, whether you agree with this research or not it is hard to deny) You also might want to question why no white/oriental man has gotten below 10 seconds in the 100m dash, this research helps explain why.

Black babies are also generally born a week earlier than White babies and mature much more faster physically as measured by bone development. By age five or six, research shows that black children excel in the long jump, dash and high jump which all require a short burst of power. By the teenage years blacks on average also have better reflexes. Race differences in brain size and IQ, along with those in testosterone, have important implications for social behavior. For example, in the United States, Orientals are seen as a model minority. They have fewer divorces, out-of-wedlock births, and cases of child abuse than do Whites. More Orientals graduate from college and fewer go to prison. Blacks, on the other hand, are 12% of the American population but make up 50% of the prison population. The racial pattern of crime in the U.S. is not due to local conditions like White racism. statistics show that the rate of violent crime (murder, rape, and serious assault) is about three times lower in East Asian and Pacific Rim countries than they are in African and Caribbean countries. Whites in European countries are intermediate. The 1996 rates of violent crime, for example, were: East Asian countries, 35 per 100,000 people; European countries, 42; and African and Caribbean countries,

Brain Size and Intelligence

Race differences in brain size have been demonstrated using four different methods: (1) magnetic resonance imaging, (2) brain weight at autopsy, (3) endocranial volume, and (4) external head measurements. Orientals on average have 1 cubic inch more brain matter than whites, and whites average a very large 5 cubic inches more than Blacks. Since one cubic inch of brain matter contains millions of brain cells and hundreds of nerve connections, brain size differences help explain why the races differ in IQ. Whites and Asians also tend to have larger hips and give birth to slightly larger brained babies. Naturally the averages vary between samples and the races do overlap. But the results from different methods on different samples, measured from the 1840s to the 1990s, show the same strong pattern.

A second implication of this is that White racism is not responsible for all of societys problems. Black underachievement is not simply due to White prejudice. It is more deeply rooted. On average, Black children are born with smaller brains than White or East Asian children. Pointing this out is not constructing stereotypes, it is simply observing facts as they are. Both science and justice call for us to seek and tell the truth, not to tell lies and spread error.

We have to accept that racial differences will not just disappear. Hitherto, most theories in the behavioral sciences have assumed that all human populations have equal abilities to achieve equal levels of social development. We need to accept the existence of the evolved diversity of human populations. Sometimes it is claimed by those who argue that race is just a social construct that the human genome project shows that because people share 99% of their genes in common, that there are no races. This is silly. Human genes are 98% similar to chimpanzee genes. Yet no one thinks that chimpanzees have the same intelligence, brain size, or social behavior patterns as human beings; they look and behave very differently. In fact humans share 90% of their genes with mice, which is why we can use them to test drug therapies. Similarly, although men and women are genetically 99% the same, it is foolish to believe that sex is just a social construction.

What are the implications of this research?

Well, whether you would like to take a look at the average IQ tests or just in general society itself you would see that research does not lie. It is undeniable that these differences exist, and simply admitting that they do is not racist as long as you accept everybody for how they are and do not single them out because of their race.

One implication that should come from this research though is that we shouldn't blame racism as to why orientals are doing well in school, or why blacks tend to dominate in many sports. In summary, the same racial pattern would not occur so consistently all around the world and over time if race were a mere social construct. If it were a meaningless construct, it would have no power to predict phenomena like brain size, growth rate, life span, crime, and family stability. Other evidence also shows that race is a biological reality. For example, coroners in crime labs can identify race from a skeleton or even just the skull. They can even identify race from blood, hair, or semen. How could they do this if race was only a social construct? The scientific evidence shows that the politically correct mantra race is just skin deep is a case of deep denial.

You can read much more about this topic here: http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/TaxonomicConstruct.pdf


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MrPraline

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#186 MrPraline
Member since 2008 • 21351 Posts
[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"]Only if you are white.. Since only whites can be racist.. seahorse123
Exactly political correctness.. for example on a video game (I was playing with my younger cousin a few years ago) a character said get out of the way whities if it would of said get out of the way blackies it would of been classed racist

Sure, but um, it would be classed that way by silly people, so why care? Life is a joke, laugh your way through it and don't let armies of c*nts get under your skin. Trust me, you'll save hundreds of g's on bar tabs.