Both...A person can reach a low point of weakness where they loose desire to live, but to relinquish ones life in itself is a very strong act to undertake and not all are brave enough even if they wanted suicide.....right wrong...weak strong....everything is absolutely subjective thinking....but the only true state of mind is neutral and unchanging. Everything else illusion....
It's an act of confusion and poor thinking. Most people that are depressed aren't thinking rationally. Despair can be very frightening and some people would rather just end things than deal with that anxiety and fear.
sonicare
Speaking of despair, when watching The Dark Knight Rises, I learned that there can be no true despair without hope. So, in a way, a suicidal person who continues living because they have hope that things will get better is actually worsening their suffering during the period before their life gets better (assuming that they do). Clinical depression involves a few features. One of them is that people can't find enjoyment in the things that usually were enjoyable to them. The second is a warped percpetion of things. I dont know about the whole hope thing. I havent heard about that. Usually when people are in a state of depression, they dont believe that things will get better. They dont view things rationally or logically. Their viewpoints are influenced by the depression so they cant see the positive side of things. It's a disease that creates a dysfunctional mind and mood.
This. Having been around for way too many suicides my classmates, I can confirm these people were reduced to the state described above. The issue is neither they nor anyone else tried to fix the problem. It can be hard though when they go to great lengths to make it so they appear normal as to not attract attention.
Neither. It isn't "weak" or "strong", it's just a choice between two crap options. If your hand was in constant pain, and the only way to end it was to chop it off, would you consider it strong to cut off your own limb or weak to not want to put up with the pain anymore? Niether, it was just a personal choice that had no clear "right" or "wrong" option and it was soley your choice to make.
I think everyone has a right to suicide. Why should people be forced to go through life if it literally is an enforced hell? I'm not talking about angtsy teenagers either...
I've had a few close friends go out that way over the course of my life and I don't really think that's it's of strength or weakness.
My thing is that you'd have to be in such a terrible, desperate place to do it that I don't think it's fair to call suicide anything but sad. I feel like I have no right to say anything else about it or pass any kind of judgement.
Yeah, but it doesn't take much strength if they are really depressed. I'd say it depends on the situation and person but is never clearly one or the other.
Its really neither. No one cept a small amount of family and/or friends, if they have any, cares. Dosen't matter how bad it was or what lead up to it. Less you were a popular media based person or killed a bunch of people before you offed yourself, the world doesn't even know you were born let alone died.
Its a sign of weakness but not on a personal attacking level. Its not cowardice action unless you deem a persons own distress so high that they dont want to live anymore as a cowards way; then there is another different argument.
Also on the selfish point, I hate that point. Its not selfish. Its selfish if you can think "I have problems but I get over it, so you have to", thats ignorance of the most stupid of people. To feel suicidal is a feeling that is not controllable. Who in their right mind thinks that someone throwing themselves under a train, or pulling a gun on themselves is the action of a sane thinking person?
Of course these things get abused by attention seekers who may be seeking attention for a number of different reasons. However its always best not to judge on face value but take the time to try and understand what might be going on.
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]You've now left the earth, ending your minor problems which could have been solved with a little work.
MirkoS77
Who are you to say such a thing? What's "minor" about it, and how do you determine that? You're full of sh!t because you can speak for no one and don't know anything about their life. You talk as if someone offs themselves because their steak was overdone at a restaurant. These people are intolerable pain. Their "minor" problems are probably more than YOU can ever survive. Chances are it's simply a chemical imbalance in their brain, a couple pills and a visit to a doctor solves that. No need for knives or bullets.
Chances are it's simply a chemical imbalance in their brain, a couple pills and a visit to a doctor solves that. No need for knives or bullets.Nibroc420
For some people it's not just a chemical imbalance in the brain. Financial troubles (which the person cannot escape) or constant rejections from beautiful women can also trigger suicidal emotions in a person.
The point is: people feel like to commit suicide when the road to fulfilling their important psychological goals become blocked.
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Chances are it's simply a chemical imbalance in their brain, a couple pills and a visit to a doctor solves that. No need for knives or bullets.Speaking as someone who's mentally ill I mean no offense by this, but the above gives me the impression that you hold zero concept as to what you're talking about and the severity and gravity that mental illness brings to peoples' lives. Pills and a visit to the doctor are not some magical, overnight, OTC cure. Pills aid treatment, they are not treatment in and of themselves, and many spend their entire lives fighting everyday even with their aid. Maybe you're really young or have no experience with this (the impression I'm getting), but it's certainly not nearly as simplistic as you make it out to be. Mental illness is not "solved", it's treated.
I'm really happy that the first reply is not black and white. It's the best answer if a bit short. Not easy to kill yourself for most people. The thoughts that make it easier also make it harder to keep on living. So in that sense it's not weak. But it's not strong either, to give up. People always try to do what they think is best. So it could be a lack of self control. Or maybe a lot of self control (someone who rationally thinks suicide is the best option). It can be selfish. Or you do it for someone else. In some situations selfish or not becomes negligible. It gets out of control.
But usually, if you hold on a little longer, you'll find something worth living for again. And then you'll be happy that you weren't strong or weak enough to do it.
I think if it is like the ritual suicide by the samurai, or suicide bombing/ kamikaze style stuff, it is strength and devotion to one belief. (Not starting a religious or politcical debate here)
But if it is from depression and lack of will to live, then it is more weakness than it is strength.
However, at the end of the day, it takes hell of a lot of will power and determination to overwrite your instict to live .
Ending pain for yourself and creating pain for many others would not be strength for me, but killing yourself like the Germanic Cimbri women as the Romans were about to turn them all into slaves is something else.
I'm not sure what to classify that as. I'm not sure I could call suicide an act of strength or bravery but it can't be easy. Doug Stanhope has an amazing bit about people who call suicide the coward's way out though. Check it out.
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Chances are it's simply a chemical imbalance in their brain, a couple pills and a visit to a doctor solves that. No need for knives or bullets.MirkoS77
Speaking as someone who's mentally ill I mean no offense by this, but the above gives me the impression that you hold zero concept as to what you're talking about and the severity and gravity that mental illness brings to peoples' lives. Pills and a visit to the doctor are not some magical, overnight, OTC cure. Pills aid treatment, they are not treatment in and of themselves, and many spend their entire lives fighting everyday even with their aid. Maybe you're really young or have no experience with this (the impression I'm getting), but it's certainly not nearly as simplistic as you make it out to be. Mental illness is not "solved", it's treated.
OT discussing bullying or suicide is downright painful to read. There are so many posters that lack empathy, simplify the issue, or choose to be judgmental instead of understanding.
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Chances are it's simply a chemical imbalance in their brain, a couple pills and a visit to a doctor solves that. No need for knives or bullets.MirkoS77
Speaking as someone who's mentally ill I mean no offense by this, but the above gives me the impression that you hold zero concept as to what you're talking about and the severity and gravity that mental illness brings to peoples' lives. Pills and a visit to the doctor are not some magical, overnight, OTC cure. Pills aid treatment, they are not treatment in and of themselves, and many spend their entire lives fighting everyday even with their aid. Maybe you're really young or have no experience with this (the impression I'm getting), but it's certainly not nearly as simplistic as you make it out to be. Mental illness is not "solved", it's treated.
Don't bother with Nibroc. He's very lacking in the empathy department and he is willfully ignorant most of the time.
[QUOTE="MirkoS77"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Chances are it's simply a chemical imbalance in their brain, a couple pills and a visit to a doctor solves that. No need for knives or bullets.GreySeal9
Speaking as someone who's mentally ill I mean no offense by this, but the above gives me the impression that you hold zero concept as to what you're talking about and the severity and gravity that mental illness brings to peoples' lives. Pills and a visit to the doctor are not some magical, overnight, OTC cure. Pills aid treatment, they are not treatment in and of themselves, and many spend their entire lives fighting everyday even with their aid. Maybe you're really young or have no experience with this (the impression I'm getting), but it's certainly not nearly as simplistic as you make it out to be. Mental illness is not "solved", it's treated.
Don't bother with Nibroc. He's very lacking in the empathy department and he is willfully ignorant most of the time.
[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Speaking as someone who's mentally ill I mean no offense by this, but the above gives me the impression that you hold zero concept as to what you're talking about and the severity and gravity that mental illness brings to peoples' lives. Pills and a visit to the doctor are not some magical, overnight, OTC cure. Pills aid treatment, they are not treatment in and of themselves, and many spend their entire lives fighting everyday even with their aid. Maybe you're really young or have no experience with this (the impression I'm getting), but it's certainly not nearly as simplistic as you make it out to be. Mental illness is not "solved", it's treated. BluRayHiDef
Don't bother with Nibroc. He's very lacking in the empathy department and he is willfully ignorant most of the time.
Would you say that he's a sociopath?
That's too strong a word. callous is a better one.
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