Is the roman catholic church commiting idolatry?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="curono"] Exactly my point. I dont recall exactly where, but in the bible said that people's names shouldnt be recalled as holy or divine (ment to worship), for only God was to be worsipped. Old testament.

IWKYB

Saints are not worshipped... moot point.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp

They just spin things around for their favor...

Read links before posting. If anything the argument compltely reaffirms my point. If you want to call make a legitimate counter-argument to the superfluous assertion that saints are anything more than revered, respected, and spoken to by Catholics, you are only telling yourself what you want to hear.

[QUOTE="IWKYB"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Saints are not worshipped... moot point.

Plzhelpmelearn

Eh, it's nothing of a divine sort. More of an appreciation of their virtue.

[QUOTE="IWKYB"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Saints are not worshipped... moot point.

coolbeans90

http://www.catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp

They just spin things around for their favor...

Read links before posting. If anything the argument compltely reaffirms my point. If you want to call make a legitimate counter-argument to the superfluous assertion that saints are anything more than revered, respected, and spoken to by Catholics, you are only telling yourself what you want to hear.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="IWKYB"] Yes they are and they are also prayed to. I know many Catholics who do this when they need help or whatever.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp

They just spin things around for their favor...

IWKYB

Read links before posting. If anything the argument compltely reaffirms my point. If you want to call make a legitimate counter-argument to the superfluous assertion that saints are anything more than revered, respected, and spoken to by Catholics, you are only telling yourself what you want to hear.

Eh, it was rather unnecessary of me to say that. Apologies. I'd restate it as mistaken. And yes, numerous people seem to be.

No need to apologize. Please continue, I was never a full Catholic so I wouldn't know these things 100 percent.

No need to apologize. Please continue, I was never a full Catholic so I wouldn't know these things 100 percent.

IWKYB

Eh, planning to go to sleep soon, so this may be my final post. Anyways, my understanding seems to be that since Catholics have reverence for the qualities of saints, use them as symbols of viirtue by following the word of god, and communicating with them through "prayer" (which is a different, far lesser sort of prayer than directly to god) often asking for assistance through their prayers, that this from an outsider's perspective may appear similar to one's actions when praying to God himself. Worshipping the saints would certainly be idolatry, and I am not denying that. However, I am unaware of any Catholic that I have ever known having actually done that. Anyways, I think that pretty nicely sums up my thoughts on the issue. I think I'm going to call it a night.

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] He's the Son of God, I don't know how else to put it. Where did I say he was a third of God? The Holy Trinity isn't what forms God if that's what you're saying. Why don't you stick to your religious beliefs and I'll stick to mine?Snipes_2

But you do believe that Jesus was as powerful as G-d, right?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Jesus clearly said that he had All power in heaven and in earth.

A clarification. He did and that is why the Jewish leaders accused Him of blasphemy.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Yes, I believe he's an Idol. Just a figment of your imagination. " And Furthermore : In Christianity, worship is considered the central act of Christian identity, the purpose of which is to ascribe honor or worth to God." You can't say Christianity Worships Jesus in a way that would consider it as Idolatry.

Snipes_2

While the Trinity is a difficult concept for our finite minds to understand and will remain a mystery until the Lord returns, Christians do believe that Jesus is God. The Triune Godhead is one in essence, three in persons, God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is one in person, two in essence, fully God and fully human.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]No, It was to symbolize that the Gates of Heaven have opened. There are Mortal Sins, that quote is stating that Jesus had to die for our sins.

Snipes_2

Mortal sins are not a Biblical teaching, it's a Cathecism. You will find no such mention anywhere in the Bible.

And the Curtain tearing was most certainly to indicate priests were no longer needed. This is also why the Bible describes the position of Pastor and Deacon and so on, but never Priest...we don't need them because Christ is our priest and our mediator with God.

When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with hands (Acts 17:24). God was through with that temple and its religious system, and the temple and Jerusalem were left "desolate" (destroyed by the Romans) in A.D. 70, just as Jesus prophesied in Luke 13:35. As long as the temple stood, it signified the continuation of the Old Covenant. Hebrews 9:8-9 refers to the age that was passing away as the new covenant was being established (Hebrews 8:13).

In a sense, the veil was symbolic of Christ Himself as the only way to the Father (John 14:6). This is indicated by the fact that the high priest had to enter the Holy of Holies through the veil. Now Christ is our superior High Priest, and as believers in His finished work, we partake of His better priesthood. We can now enter the Holy of Holies through Him. Hebrews 10:19-20 says that the faithful enter into the sanctuary by the "blood of Jesus, by the new and living way which he opened for us through the veil, that is, through his flesh." Here we see the image of Jesus' flesh being torn for us just as He was tearing the veil for us.

The veil being torn from top to bottom is a fact of history. The profound significance of this event is explained in glorious detail in Hebrews. The things of the temple were shadows of things to come, and they all ultimately point us to Jesus Christ. He was the veil to the Holy of Holies, and through His death the faithful now have free access to God.

The veil in the temple was a constant reminder that sin renders humanity unfit for the presence of God. The fact that the sin offering was offered annually and countless other sacrifices repeated daily showed graphically that sin could not truly be atoned for or erased by mere animal sacrifices. Jesus Christ, through His death, has removed the barriers between God and man, and now we may approach Him with confidence and boldness (Hebrews 4:14-16).

The Word of God teaches that all those that are a part of the body of Christ, His Church on earth, the body of believers, are priests.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, whois the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]Priests Represent Jesus on Earth. Spiritual Sacrifices are Good, but don't cleanse you of your Sins. especially Mortal Sins. Each Church has a Pastor, under the Pastor are the Priests. Just because they aren't the Leader of that specific Church doesn't make them any less important. br0kenrabbit

The HOLY SPIRIT represents Jesus on Earth.

There are no Mortal Sins. There is only one unforgivable sin and that is unbelief (Mark 3/Matthew 12).

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

The whole symbolism of the Veil tearing in The Temple during Christs cruxifixion was to symbolize that the way of man to God was now open and didn't need a priest, as the veil was to keep everyone but the priests out.

Matthew 27:50 : And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom

Hebrews 10:19: Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain,

I agree. In Christ, we are able to approach the Father directly.

Praying before a cross and praying to a cross are two different things, bud.