Is western life becoming more and more meaningless?

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"]I think it's far too easy to say 'well that's your fault'. It took a series of catalysts all occuring at the same time to point my mind in this direction. Had my day gone by better i may never have even reached this consideration. You can only derive meaning in life when you actually observe and consider your life's meaning, if you follow me. As such if society creates and stimulates a lifestyle of meaninglessness but does so in a manner whereby people do not stop and consider their lives and their routines, it is not THEIR fault but the simple functions of society. It's like blaming the individual for being a sexist in a time when women did not have equal rights to men. That was just society. It was the rules. It was the way life was. A tiny, tiny number of people question the very fabric of society. Most go on about their daily lives without even considering the way things work and how fair they are. taj7575

Society has nothing to do with it...your life is meaningless..as are most of our lives...we die and no one cares..

The last part of your statement is not true..At all. People are remembered for a very long time, for the impact they made on other lives. Whether it be a celebrity or some random neighborhood guy, if they did something great, they will be remembered, even when they are gone.

Exactly..IF they did something GREAT..otherwise they are forgotten within a year or two..

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Nothing is objectively meaningful. What is meaningful for you personally is that which you value and which brings you happiness, which is unique to any given individual. If you have not found that yet, that is not the fault of western society; someone could have been just as equally unable to find that which they would have deemed meaningful at any point in history.

Ninja-Kitteh

Define "pointless" and present a contrasting life that is not pointless.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"][QUOTE="sonicare"]life is what you make it.sonicare

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"]I think it's far too easy to say 'well that's your fault'. It took a series of catalysts all occuring at the same time to point my mind in this direction. Had my day gone by better i may never have even reached this consideration. You can only derive meaning in life when you actually observe and consider your life's meaning, if you follow me. As such if society creates and stimulates a lifestyle of meaninglessness but does so in a manner whereby people do not stop and consider their lives and their routines, it is not THEIR fault but the simple functions of society. It's like blaming the individual for being a sexist in a time when women did not have equal rights to men. That was just society. It was the rules. It was the way life was. A tiny, tiny number of people question the very fabric of society. Most go on about their daily lives without even considering the way things work and how fair they are. Ninja-Kitteh

Society has nothing to do with it...your life is meaningless..as are most of our lives...we die and no one cares..

How is it the fault of society?...It's not societies fault people forget one another..

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]Not really... My life COULD have gone south in a hurry (given the influences of this 'horrible Western society') But I CHOSE to change and more out of life Existentialism FTWNinja-Kitteh

Not even remotely accurate...

Few people can just coast through life and achieve:
"get good grades, a good job, a nice house and then to fill that house with possessions, raise a family" because "that's the way life and the world you were born into functioned"

Maybe you were born into a life where you can get all that by just coasting...most can not

This is a very naive, isolated view on the way the real world works
How old are you?

A famous Dale Carnegie quote comes to mind...

Happinness doesn't depend on our external conditions, it is governed by our mental attitude.

Define "pointless" and present a contrasting life that is not pointless.GabuEx

[QUOTE="GabuEx"] Define "pointless" and present a contrasting life that is not pointless.Ninja-Kitteh

You did not present a contrasting life that is not pointless.

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"] This is far too cliched and unrealistic an expression. Ninja-Kitteh

[QUOTE="GabuEx"] Define "pointless" and present a contrasting life that is not pointless.Ninja-Kitteh

Nice to know that:
1. all of Western Society has those oppotunities and choices
2. all of Western Society wants those things

It also helps if you have a job you like. I find too many people do jobs "just to make a living", but have no passion for what they do. While sometimes that is necessary, it sucks. My first career path was financially rewarding, but i hated the work. I looked forward to every weekend so I could get away from work. I made a big decision and changed careers and it was hugely rewarding for me. I'm much happier and feel like I'm contributing positively to society. Maybe you're just in the wrong career? I have a colleague who was a former trial lawyer before changing careers as well. He hated law. Made good money, but hated his job. In those cases, life can seem very unfulfilling. Your job is just a paycheck and nothing more.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]life is what you make it.Ninja-Kitteh

You're blaming society, you're one to talk about cliches.

Honestly though, I'm sure all you nihilists here would be a lot more satisfied and a lot less depressed if you stopped believing that nothing has any real meaning. Mainly because you're all hypocrites anyway, if life is meaningless then why haven't you already killed yourself? You don't because you're scared of dying so you must have something to live for, just like you'd be scared if war broke out on your home soil and your life was under threat you'd be scared. I just think people need to focus on stuff that actually matters.

Gabu; i presented to you a life which to me seems pointless. As i said earlier, i'm not trying to be a genius and offer a solution to this, only remarking on how western life does appear to be meaningless. Also, gamespot wont let me post more than 20 times so i apologize but i can no longer continue this discussion which is a shame.Ninja-Kitteh

You keep saying "western life" is meaningless. This implies there is life that is not meaningless. Thus I asked you to provide an example of a life that is not meaningless. If you cannot do so, then your argument stands without merit.

Honestly though, I'm sure all you nihilists here would be a lot more satisfied and a lot less depressed if you stopped believing that nothing has any real meaning. Mainly because you're all hypocrites anyway, if life is meaningless then why haven't you already killed yourself? You don't because you're scared of dying so you must have something to live for, just like you'd be scared if war broke out on your home soil and your life was under threat you'd be scared. I just think people need to focus on stuff that actually matters.

Troqe

A life does not have inherent meaning. That does not mean that one cannot find meaning in their life; it simply means that any given life is not one that all humans will find universally meaningful or meaningless.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"]Gabu; i presented to you a life which to me seems pointless. As i said earlier, i'm not trying to be a genius and offer a solution to this, only remarking on how western life does appear to be meaningless. Also, gamespot wont let me post more than 20 times so i apologize but i can no longer continue this discussion which is a shame.GabuEx

You keep saying "western life" is meaningless. This implies there is life that is not meaningless. Thus I asked you to provide an example of a life that is not meaningless. If you cannot do so, then your argument stands without merit.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"][QUOTE="sonicare"]life is what you make it.KateTheGreat94

You're blaming society, you're one to talk about cliches.

A life does not have inherent meaning. That does not mean that one cannot find meaning in their life; it simply means that any given life is not one that all humans will find universally meaningful or meaningless.

GabuEx

That is the part the OP doesn't seem to be able to grasp as of yet. He's making it a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

[QUOTE="KateTheGreat94"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"] This is far too cliched and unrealistic an expression. Ninja-Kitteh

You're blaming society, you're one to talk about cliches.

So what would equal a meaningful life?...I'm dying to know..

[QUOTE="KateTheGreat94"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"] This is far too cliched and unrealistic an expression. Ninja-Kitteh

You're blaming society, you're one to talk about cliches.

Honestly though, I'm sure all you nihilists here would be a lot more satisfied and a lot less depressed if you stopped believing that nothing has any real meaning. Mainly because you're all hypocrites anyway, if life is meaningless then why haven't you already killed yourself? You don't because you're scared of dying so you must have something to live for, just like you'd be scared if war broke out on your home soil and your life was under threat you'd be scared. I just think people need to focus on stuff that actually matters.

Troqe

[QUOTE="Troqe"]

Honestly though, I'm sure all you nihilists here would be a lot more satisfied and a lot less depressed if you stopped believing that nothing has any real meaning. Mainly because you're all hypocrites anyway, if life is meaningless then why haven't you already killed yourself? You don't because you're scared of dying so you must have something to live for, just like you'd be scared if war broke out on your home soil and your life was under threat you'd be scared. I just think people need to focus on stuff that actually matters.

Ninja-Kitteh

Jeez. Gabu, by 'western life' i was merely refering to life as i know it and have experienced. Ninja-Kitteh

What is a meaningful life? That is all I would like to know. You have shown what you consider a meaningless life. But you have not shown what you consider a meaningful life, despite being asked to do so multiple times.

Ninja-Kitteh

capitalism isnt a very good system. Luckily the west seems to be throwing it away.Atheists_Pwn

No its not throwing it away, technically we haven't had it in a long time but the point is that we are experiencing an economic shift back to more keynesian ideas from the neoliberalism that took hold in the 1980s, and I welcome this shift.

I think your life is what you make of it. If it sucks, it's primarily your fault, sure, there are other factors, but the burden falls on you to make something of your life.

[QUOTE="Troqe"]

Honestly though, I'm sure all you nihilists here would be a lot more satisfied and a lot less depressed if you stopped believing that nothing has any real meaning. Mainly because you're all hypocrites anyway, if life is meaningless then why haven't you already killed yourself? You don't because you're scared of dying so you must have something to live for, just like you'd be scared if war broke out on your home soil and your life was under threat you'd be scared. I just think people need to focus on stuff that actually matters.

GabuEx

A life does not have inherent meaning. That does not mean that one cannot find meaning in their life; it simply means that any given life is not one that all humans will find universally meaningful or meaningless.

The thing is though, this is the kind of philosophy only an apathetic, bloated society could take up which is also why it seems to be very popular with angsty teenagers. It's difficult to tell exactly what you mean but if you were say talking about not working in a Western society because you're just wasting your life just to pay the man but if you happen not to live in a society where you get born with a silver spoon in your mouth this kinda belief is going to make you starve and if someone went and took that silver spoon from you that you're philosophy would rapidly change because you don't want to die.

If something's become meaningless, chances are things were that way in the first place. Lighten up.

The thing is though, this is the kind of philosophy only an apathetic, bloated society could take up which is also why it seems to be very popular with angsty teenagers.Troqe

Honestly though, I'm sure all you nihilists here would be a lot more satisfied and a lot less depressed if you stopped believing that nothing has any real meaning. Mainly because you're all hypocrites anyway, if life is meaningless then why haven't you already killed yourself? You don't because you're scared of dying so you must have something to live for, just like you'd be scared if war broke out on your home soil and your life was under threat you'd be scared. I just think people need to focus on stuff that actually matters.

Don't worry about the negative responses mate, I foung your original post quite intruiging.

Now to answer your question. In my view, yes, life is getting pretty meaningless. We are becoming disconnected. I mean, I saw a show on opera about how people text each other instead of actually talking or telling each other to come downstairs for dinner.

BTW, all those people who say your wrong, eventually they themselves will come to the same conclusion.

We really are disconnected. With our cell phones, our intenet, or the way we treat each other. That...don't you dare speak with me kind of attitude is really stupid....

I don't know, if you ask me, the problem dervies from a vaiety of different factors. But, yet again, there are a few things here and there that you can enjoy in life. Find a hobby, an altenate way of doing things, and things could be okay. You're never going to solve all of societies problems, but you will be on the right track.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"]Gabu; i presented to you a life which to me seems pointless. As i said earlier, i'm not trying to be a genius and offer a solution to this, only remarking on how western life does appear to be meaningless. Also, gamespot wont let me post more than 20 times so i apologize but i can no longer continue this discussion which is a shame.GabuEx

You keep saying "western life" is meaningless. This implies there is life that is not meaningless. Thus I asked you to provide an example of a life that is not meaningless. If you cannot do so, then your argument stands without merit.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"] This is a very hostile response. My post was just food for though. I'm not a nihilist and i'm not a hypocrite because i haven't killed myself. Jeez. Gabu, by 'western life' i was merely refering to life as i know it and have experienced. Ninja-Kitteh

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Nothing is objectively meaningful. What is meaningful for you personally is that which you value and which brings you happiness, which is unique to any given individual. If you have not found that yet, that is not the fault of western society; someone could have been just as equally unable to find that which they would have deemed meaningful at any point in history.

Ninja-Kitteh

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Troqe"]

Honestly though, I'm sure all you nihilists here would be a lot more satisfied and a lot less depressed if you stopped believing that nothing has any real meaning. Mainly because you're all hypocrites anyway, if life is meaningless then why haven't you already killed yourself? You don't because you're scared of dying so you must have something to live for, just like you'd be scared if war broke out on your home soil and your life was under threat you'd be scared. I just think people need to focus on stuff that actually matters.

Troqe

A life does not have inherent meaning. That does not mean that one cannot find meaning in their life; it simply means that any given life is not one that all humans will find universally meaningful or meaningless.

The thing is though, this is the kind of philosophy only an apathetic, bloated society could take up which is also why it seems to be very popular with angsty teenagers. It's difficult to tell exactly what you mean but if you were say talking about not working in a Western society because you're just wasting your life just to pay the man but if you happen not to live in a society where you get born with a silver spoon in your mouth this kinda belief is going to make you starve and if someone went and took that silver spoon from you that you're philosophy would rapidly change because you don't want to die.

I get the feeling that you are attributing to me myriad traits that you have simply assumed.

Take Bob. Bob is a successful executive at a company and has helped it grow immensely, and has made numerous contributions to make it one of the global leaders in its field. He is old and is unmarried, and likely never will marry and have kids, but his success at his company has given his life purpose. He finds meaning in ensuring that the products his company provides to customers are the best they can be.

Or, take Jill. Jill is a married stay-at-home mom. She doesn't have a job, but she loves both her three kids and her husband. She takes great pride in helping her children with their schoolwork and ensuring they grow up to be fine, upstanding citizens. She has no great aspirations in life, but she finds meaning in caring for her family and being the best wife and mother that she can be.

Or, take Alice. Alice is an Olympic gold medalist in several track events. She is married without kids, and her husband is absolutely supportive and proud of his wife for her athletic achievements. She finds great meaning in life in striving to be the best athlete in the world.

Or, take Cheng. Cheng is a Buddhist monk who lives unmarried, childless, and in relative seclusion, because he is focused on his meditation and training. Although he does not have a great social life, nor has he made any great contributions, he finds great meaning in achieving inner peace in life.

If you gave any of these people one of the lives that the other three lead, they would find it absolutely terrible. Yet all four of them find their own meaning in life. And that is the ultimate point to what I said: that there is no inherent meaning in life to which all ought to conform, but rather that one finds their own meaning in life that is uniquely their own.

BTW, all those people who say your wrong, eventually they themselves will come to the same conclusion.

outworld222

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"][QUOTE="xaos"] And you consider it reasonable to universalize that singular experience? When you have one data point, you can draw any line you want to through it :)xaos

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

If life is meaningless, that's on you. Not society.

Ninja-Kitteh

if you think life is meaningless then why dont u do something? like for an example. if u dont want to make a lot of money dont. you can just not follow it if you want.

hiphopballer

You're being far too rigid here. This isn't a 'prove me wrong' thing. Heck i haven't even presented any argument to lack merit in the first place, just a perspective. I realise you've asked me multiple times to explain what a meaningful life is, and you act as though i have ignored you but i have not. I said quite clearly multiple times to more than one poster including yourself that that is NOT the purpose of me sharing what i thought was an interesting thought. I'm not diagnosing a disease which i feel is curable. Just because a person cannot write a simple sentence explaining what a meaningful life is does not mean that such a thing cannot possibly exist. I have no idea what a meaningful life would constitute. If i did i'd be doing it right now, not sharing my thoughts on how i feel life appears pointless.Ninja-Kitteh

You proposed the statement that western life is becoming more and more meaningless. That implies that there was a time when life had more meaning than it does now. Yet you seem unable to define what a life is that is meaningful.

So against what, then, are you contrasting western life such that you have been led to the conclusion that it is more meaningless than it could be? What is the ideal away from which western life has strayed? We cannot talk in any coherent fashion about a meaningless life without first having a meaningful life against which to contrast it.

Don't worry about the negative responses mate, I foung your original post quite intruiging.

Now to answer your question. In my view, yes, life is getting pretty meaningless. We are becoming disconnected. I mean, I saw a show on opera about how people text each other instead of actually talking or telling each other to come downstairs for dinner.

BTW, all those people who say your wrong, eventually they themselves will come to the same conclusion.

We really are disconnected. With our cell phones, our intenet, or the way we treat each other. That...don't you dare speak with me kind of attitude is really stupid....

I don't know, if you ask me, the problem dervies from a vaiety of different factors. But, yet again, there are a few things here and there that you can enjoy in life. Find a hobby, an altenate way of doing things, and things could be okay. You're never going to solve all of societies problems, but you will be on the right track.

outworld222

Disconnected from life because of cell phones and internet? Those could be considered hobbies to some too you know...

It sounds to me that you're arbitrarily defining life meaningless because you obviously take issue with cell phones and the internet. OH! And btw, you're on the internet.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Kitteh"] rawsavon

I disagree with a lot of you guys. What meaning/fulfillment/contentment you find in life comes from your own definitions of what is important. It is entirely up to you. You guys sit there and blame the world for being materialistic. That'sgarbage. You're the one being materialistic if that stuff bothers you. If you measure your success by material means, then maybe you will lead a shallow life. But why do you have to measure your life that way? Why? If you find that to be unfulfilling, there are other things to strive for. Why do you need outside validation for your own contentment? There lots of people who make more money than me. I guarantee that I am smarter and better educated than the bulkof them. To some people that would drive them nuts - they'd feel like they got cheated because they make less. But it doesn't bother me, because I'm content. I'm happy with where I am and what I do.

[QUOTE="outworld222"]

Don't worry about the negative responses mate, I foung your original post quite intruiging.

Now to answer your question. In my view, yes, life is getting pretty meaningless. We are becoming disconnected. I mean, I saw a show on opera about how people text each other instead of actually talking or telling each other to come downstairs for dinner.

BTW, all those people who say your wrong, eventually they themselves will come to the same conclusion.

We really are disconnected. With our cell phones, our intenet, or the way we treat each other. That...don't you dare speak with me kind of attitude is really stupid....

I don't know, if you ask me, the problem dervies from a vaiety of different factors. But, yet again, there are a few things here and there that you can enjoy in life. Find a hobby, an altenate way of doing things, and things could be okay. You're never going to solve all of societies problems, but you will be on the right track.

Disconnected from life because of cell phones and internet? Those could be considered hobbies to some too you know...

It sounds to me that you're arbitrarily defining life meaningless because you obviously take issue with cell phones and the internet. OH! And btw, you're on the internet.

I completely agree. Capitalism devalues people, it makes us into robots and the closer to a robot you are the more successful you will be. The biggest problem in western society is the huge emphasis on money. Its money, money, money every where. Wild consumerism, which holds almost no true meaning. People become alien to each other. Just take a ride in a subway in NYC on Monday during rush hour, and see for your self. TC I completely agree with you, 16 years of education just so that you can work 60-100 hours a week for a good performance review and a bonus, and live through life like a robot. Basically TC, one principle can guide you away from a situation like this, money =/= happiness.muscleserge

Just because a specific way of life today is meaningless to you, doesn't make it meaningless to others or in general.

I have a few honest tips about how to proceed with life. I want to write them down here on Gamespot.

1) Get a piece of paper ( I don't care how smart you are or aren't, that is not where the subject is)

2) Preferably its a post-it-notes kind of thing so when you start writing, you keep is short and simple.

3) Get very very serious, and forget all the noise and confusion around you.

4) Write down a list of priorities in life THAT ARE GOING TO MAKE YOU HAPPY.

5) They could be 3 priorities, or 10 even.

6) Spend all your time trying to achieve those important goals, and screw the rest.

It might be a hard thing to do, but its deeply motivational.