israeli soldiers are ordered shoot to kill in Gaza

Yeah. It's either that or a very repressive regime, that hasn't had elections for god knows how long, that imprisons and torture dissidents, kill people who sell their house to Jews and where murder is not punishable if it's due to honor. Add in constant evasion of negotiations and we have the true "true color". Israel's "true colors" on the other hand are that of providing medical aid to thousands of people of hostile entities, Palestinians, Syrians, and providing more medical personnel than any other nation. And so on. Now I haven't looked too closely into the horrible things that the PA does as I am not really interested in smearing it as as I said before, states, and quasi-states in this case, are entities that for the most part are way too complex to assign "true color".

Abu Mazens' recognition of Israel's right to exist would not be distinct from Israel recognizing the right of Palestine, Texas, to exist. Sometimes he says he has given up on the right of return and sometimes not. Because he is, just as Netanyahu, a snake.

Israel has not decided to not give you a state. The opposite has been a pervading mindset for a long time. Netanyahu is just interested in keeping his job. He says one thing to some people and another thing to others, due to said snakiness. He is anyway just temporary and will be gone soon.

That's a shame, but honestly, what country these days doesnt have shady policies? Doesnt make it right, but it's the pot calling the kettle black on a lot of this stuff.

Somehow trusting Saudi Arabia and other Arab Sunni tyrants is somehow better?

By the way the same Iran is fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq is trusting Iran. Saudi Arabia prefer chaos in the region. Yemen is a great example of that desperation.

........... Who said about trusting them.. Obviously we don't because the agreement including constant inspections.. And the relinquishing of the MAJORITY of their equipment.. Do people even fucking understand how these deals work any more? And guess what? If they violate the deal, we are back at square one from the beginning with sanctions reapplied.. How the **** are people even arguing about this based around these specific clauses in which Iran's programs will be under direct scrutiny.. Instead of what they are now, in that there are NO inspections with them.. This is what we call a "DEAL", you do one thing in exchange for another..

Hell furthermore our deals are not "HEY OK we trust you, RELEASE SANCTIONS!".. No its called a god damned compromise.. Sanctions are lifted, communication is opened, in exchange for them relinquishing the majority of their enrichment equipment, with constant scrutiny by UN and US inspection teams, and only having the ability to enriching uranium a small fraction to what is needed to make a bomb.. This is a victory, even if you don't fucking trust them, they can be directly scrutinized now.. How in the **** is going to a war with them (when it can be avoided) or not negotiating with them (in which they can do what ever they like with out scruinty or restrictions) is in anyway better than this?

The tunnels that the Hamas gov't built were being used to kill Isreali people. There was no excuse for the tunnels to exist. Isreal invaded the strip to destroy them and in the process, Hamas used schools and hospitals as munitions storage for the resistance. If Hamas didn't want dead kids and sick people blown to bits, they should have considered hiding their ammo and rockets elsewhere.

Hamas in control of Gaza had money and manpower to build those tunnels of hate when instead they could have built better hospitals and schools or improve infrastructure. Even after the invasion, Hamas took hundreds of millions of dollars in rebuilding aid and stuffed it into a slush fund where they're likely just building more tunnels and rockets.

If anybody's to blame for dead civilians, it's Hamas. Without Hamas, there would have been no shooting in the first place.

Let's get one thing straight....common Americans defend Israel because of the extreme spending by Israeli-Jewish lobbyist on propaganda in US media. It has got nothing to do with good arguments or sensible politics and EVERYTHING to do with cause and effect. It's so obvious.

Not a single other industrial country shares the US's passionate support for Israel. Just look at the EU...27 different countries with completely different journalistic structures and not ONE country has come to the same conclusion as the US....strange....no wait, it's completely logical since no lobbyist money has affected their views.

What conclusion did the US reach that EU countries did not?

That providing Israel with weapons, money and a diplomatic "get out of jail free" card for virtually ANY action is a good idea.

The US populace has also en masse bought into the fascist excuse that any action done for the protection of the state and/or state citizens is excusable regardless of casuality differences. This fascist and racist idea also shows itself in regards to how the police brutality debate is handled in the US.

That is what Hamas wants thus they hid their munitions there.

Many EU countries have or are providing Israel with money and weapons. USA has never provided Israel with a diplomatic "get out of jail free" card for virtually any action.

A thorough investigation of this affair answers your question. Hamas originally relied on exposed rocket launchers that left their operators vulnerable to Israeli drones freely roaming the sky. Having sustained significant losses to its rockets brigade, Hamas needed the cover of heavily populated areas. But the rationale that the Israelis will hesitate to pound such areas for fear of worldwide outrage at mounting civilian casualties proved wrong; the Israelis didn't falter and pounded those areas all the same. When the hostilities reached boiling-point during operation cast lead, people started to fear for themselves and their property and started to stand up to combatants wishing to fire rockets from nearby, knowing that Israeli drones and jet fighters will momentarily reciprocate even if the combatants managed to flee. By the end of operation cast lead this tactic proved ineffectual and Hamas had to think of some alternatives because it continued to sustain casualties, but also started to accrue the discontent of the population.

During last summer's operation protective edge, Hamas used its latest innovation in that regard: it managed to develop a mechanism that conceals unmanned rocket launchers underground. The crux of it is that the launcher is hidden in an underground chamber requiring only a remote detonator and an opening wide enough to launch the rocket. Having constructed these chambers in the Palestinian part of the border region to gain an advantage in range, not a single rocket was launched from a remotely populated area in operation protective edge. Coupled with the fact that land incursions occurred in the border region too, all hostilities were conducted in unpopulated areas yet civilians sustained the majority of losses-in lives and property-during the war.

Israeli politicians-right-wingers in particular-subsist on Palestinian killing stories; high casualties are good for business. Also, what may escape you is how Israel benefits from the current Palestinian rift and therefore it isn't in its best interest to topple Hamas, something it can do in one swift blow. During the last three wars, the political leadership openly stated from the outset that it doesn't intend to topple Hamas, which continues to disgruntle the upper echelon of the IDF that continues to fight pointless wars. But Hamas does cause trouble for the settlers of southern Israel who demand deterrence. The Israeli regime finds itself in the predicament of wanting to keep Hamas and appeasing part of the electorate. The compromise is to create as much destruction and casualties as possible without compromising Hamas infrastructure; civilians and their houses, in addition to public utilities, serve that purpose as "nonpartisan" targets of no strategic consequence. In light of this topic, this explains these reports of unclear rules of engagement and orders of shoot to kill.

No, no and yes.

Terrific. I guess you haven't heard about... history

Religion continually striking as usual.... I'm so glad I am devout of such horrific beliefs.

How did you manage to infer that religion had anything to do with this?

Its the middle east.

Yeah doesn't work that way.

It's the middle east.

That's funny....they were keeping to themselves but their neighbors decided to invade them and got their asses kicked.

I would bet $100 this story is bs. Enough Israeli haters though where I could post anything anti-Israel and you would all believe it.

@themajormayor: I have heard about history. I have also heard about semantic tricks. Is the EU's support for Israel comparable to America's? If not, then what's your point?

This is a quote I translated from breaking the silence's Avichai Stoller:

"As a result of those orders, hundreds of innocent Palestinians surely died", says Stollar. "Different soldiers told us how a Palestinian elderly man received a bullet, suffered unbearably, and he was given mercy afterwards with two extra bullets. An Israeli military tank finally threw some dirt over hem-end of story".

Another quote of Stollar:

"Entire residential neighborhoods were wiped out, with military bulldozers that according to the testimonies of the soldiers themselves "remained driving around insistently", as if they were playing in a sandpit". Photos that the soldiers themselves took show that destruction. Buildings and infrastructure were destroyed in parts of Gaza that had already been abandoned. There was therefore no reason for that demolition, except as a collective punishment of the civilian population. The neighborhoods were also destroyed, in order to "let the Israeli presence be felt".

Money? The US gives money to other ME countries as well. Non point.

No one said anything about comparable. You're not surprisingly moving the goalpost. That said. Europe's support in terms of weapons and money has been substantial, at times vital.

Also as LJ implies. According to this logic, muslims must have a huge super lobby in USA.

Not religion, it's state power continually striking as usual. Bandits with lines drawn in the sand or rock is all countries are. Doesn't matter if some are peaceful or not that can always change as long as we have government.

Religion is just fuel to their fire.

Isreal gonna Isreal. The Fourth Reich.

Well for one AIPEC is one of the largest lobbying organizations in the United States.. And also the evangelical movement is pro Israel for religious reasons over anything else, which is hilarious because you would think most Jews would be against them for obvious reasons.

Yes ok. But I still can't think of many conclusions that the US reached that the EU didn't regarding this issue. Jews should be against who? Why?

In any case. Some balance here is necessary. The world is excessively and disproportionately against Israel overall. The US balances that quiet a bit.

I agree. I mean how many "Saudis bombing Yemen" threads have people made in the past couple of months? And I can say for certain what the Saudi warplanes are doing is nothing short of war crimes.

But..but:

Man, I don't even have any idea what's happening over there. The media etc. is comparatively quiet.

How are these posts even connected to each other?

He's calling Israel the Fourth Reich while you on the other hand is of the opinion that the world is unfairly against Israel. In light of the excerpt cited at the top of the chain, one has to appreciate the irony of your cavil since-again-in light of the cited quote, the world is anything but "excessively and disproportionately against Israel overall".

Well that's no surprise, seems like the world is wising up. Anyone with any moral compass should be against Isreal. Acting like 1930's Germany doesn't put you in the best light.

Is that you Praline

No clue who that is.

How does calling Israel the Fourth Reich show that the world is anything but that?

@iloveatlus said:

@-God- said:

Well that's no surprise, seems like the world is wising up. Anyone with any moral compass should be against Isreal. Acting like 1930's Germany doesn't put you in the best light.

I have never even heard Netanyahu talk about the Chosen people. More fitting would be to have someone who actually believes and talks about it, like not a secular Jews, like a Haredi one. Let's see how well that would be received. Also, the meaning of God's chosen people is very different and even conflicting with master race.

.. Not quite.. Seeing as the United States blocks every thing negative that the UN attempts to pass against Israel.. No one should defend either side, and maybe that is the problem because both sides have done some pretty despicable things... I don't think any one here would say Israel deserves to end or other such things, but that shouldn't mean you should support the government without question.. Furthermore the "whole world is against us" rhetoric really isn't true what so ever.. The Zionist population got the most support with Great Britian all the way up til the end of mandates when they pulled out.. And after that the UN supported them for decades, and the two state deals put forward were heavily in favor of Israel..

There are countless of things negative that the US hasn't blocked. If neither side is defended I think we could see much worse suffering. You can however defend both sides.

There are many people here who wants Israel to end.

I for one hate the current government of Israel. It will not hold for long though.

I don't think the whole world is against Israel. But a disproportionally big part of it is.

Eh, the Zionist population got support from Great Britain a great deal. But not all the way until the end of the mandate. Heard about the white papers? Which two state deals were heavily in favor of Israel?

I see you no longer appreciate sarcasm and irony. I was sarcastically responding to his disparagement by referring him to your post which claims the world is unjustly against Israel. Given the quote I included, one appreciates the irony in that kind of rhetoric responding to that kind of condemnation.

What a naive child you must be............... try using google............

@faizanhd: well, i've never heared of a budist monk molesting a child or killing a women for being "unfaithfull" (aka being raped)

Then you have never heard of Burma (Myanmar). Start reading kid.

A joke compared to the violence and depravity of other religions. Both historically and in terms of its actual teachings.

Systematic genocide is not a joke.

War and conquest is a part of human nature. We should just let them fight without any intervention. Every single nation on Earth was conquered through war.