Isreal commiting war crimes.gaza blockade

Again, they occupied those territories in wars in which the surrounding countries ATTACKED/INVADED ISRAEL. You're pretty much saying "Israel defended itself TOO well. It's evil and must be stopped".Zagrius

So you support the soviet occupation of eastern Europe? Because the soviet union defended itself "too well"?

[QUOTE="The_lol_maker"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="The_lol_maker"]The nazis were trying to destroy any resistance(and the jewish resistance) and completely eliminate every jew on the planet, are you saying that Israel is trying to to the same to the muslim people?:| I'd say not. jointed

The nazis were trying to destroy the resistance movements because they posed a threat to them...aka..self defense.

You guys are apparently OK with the nazi tactics...I would be too if I took them out of context (well, not really).

You have to ask yourselves WHY the attacks happen, and not just conclude that an attack/threat automatically needs a counter attack.

I'm talking about when Israel defended itself from attacks from Syria, Egypt and Jordan combined. What does that have to do with Nazis? Heck, why not, I'm a Zionazi! Happy? I'm an evil bastard, trying to throw all the Arabs into the sea, which is why I'm currently living in a dorm-room where half the students are Arabs, and surprisingly none of us care. I guess I forgot up until now. Please wait while I go and commit some mass-murder, as any Zionazi would!

Well, they're currently building a huge frekkin wall around the whole west bank...very similar to what the nazis did in Warzaw.

But seriously, how the hell can you even think of defending Israel. Yes they were attacked first, but that's because they occupied foreign land.

They didn't occupy it, it was given to them. And the wall is to seperate between Israel and the Palestinian territories. It's more like the Berlin wall than the ghettos. And I live in Israel, hence my pro-Israeli bias.

Israel occupied territories later on...

And gave them back for peace... learn some history...

Ehm no? They still occupy large territories in southern "Israel"....

Like what? what lands? the desert that's in the egypt's north? it was given back to them at 1967...or 1968 or 1984... one of those I can't remember...

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

jointed

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="The_lol_maker"]The nazis were trying to destroy any resistance(and the jewish resistance) and completely eliminate every jew on the planet, are you saying that Israel is trying to to the same to the muslim people?:| I'd say not. The_lol_maker

The nazis were trying to destroy the resistance movements because they posed a threat to them...aka..self defense.

You guys are apparently OK with the nazi tactics...I would be too if I took them out of context (well, not really).

You have to ask yourselves WHY the attacks happen, and not just conclude that an attack/threat automatically needs a counter attack.

The nazis were different, they were simply racist, It was there goal to eliminate jews(the resistance....). If someone would try to eliminate your people(like what the nazis did to the jews), would you just sit down and won't do anything?

First of all Jews aren't a race and second, you are completely misunderstanding his point. You just don't get it. Seriously whoever thought putting Jews back in Jerusalem wouldn't cause any problems has to be the dumbest person on earth.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]Again, they occupied those territories in wars in which the surrounding countries ATTACKED/INVADED ISRAEL. You're pretty much saying "Israel defended itself TOO well. It's evil and must be stopped".jointed

So you support the soviet occupation of eastern Europe? Because the soviet union defended itself "too well"?

I don't know the details of those events, and so can't honestly comment on them.

Just note this: The last time when the lands given to Israel were under Arab control was between 1270-1516 AD. After that the Turks (Ottoman Empire) had it, then the Brittians, and so on and so on.

So people lose their right for a land if it wasn't theirs for 2000 years (Hebrews), they lose their right for their lands if it wasn't theirs for 230 years (Native Americans), but for some reason almost 500 years is a magic "this is still ours" number? How long before they lose their right then, another 1500?

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

Darthric

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

This EXACTLY what I meant with my second sentence...:roll: There has been fighting going on ever since the nation was founded.

[QUOTE="The_lol_maker"][QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="The_lol_maker"]The nazis were trying to destroy any resistance(and the jewish resistance) and completely eliminate every jew on the planet, are you saying that Israel is trying to to the same to the muslim people?:| I'd say not. Ilived

The nazis were trying to destroy the resistance movements because they posed a threat to them...aka..self defense.

You guys are apparently OK with the nazi tactics...I would be too if I took them out of context (well, not really).

You have to ask yourselves WHY the attacks happen, and not just conclude that an attack/threat automatically needs a counter attack.

The nazis were different, they were simply racist, It was there goal to eliminate jews(the resistance....). If someone would try to eliminate your people(like what the nazis did to the jews), would you just sit down and won't do anything?

First of all Jews aren't a race and second, you are completely misunderstanding his point. You just don't get it. Seriously whoever thought putting Jews back in Jerusalem wouldn't cause any problems has to be the dumbest person on earth.

I didn't say jews are a race :?

And I know I misunderstood him, my bad...

And more importantly, Jerusalem was ours(the jews) in the first place anyway... and about the problem it caused, don't ask me why we came back, we just had to. as simple as that, we came back to where we belong 'cause there's no place for us in the world but Israel.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

Darthric

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

How does this make it more acceptable? The Germans planned a surprise attack against the Soviet Union in WW2. The Soviets came back from that and went all the way to Berlin.

But the other nations cry foul at Soviet influence in Eastern Europe after WW2 when it was also just taking steps to make itself less vulnerable to attack.

And boo hoo if Israel has been invaded throughout history. The Normans kicked the Saxons out of Great Britain in 1066 so does that mean present day England belongs to Denmark? No. Same goes for the USA.

The British and the UN had no right all to go and cut palestine into little pieces like that.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]Again, they occupied those territories in wars in which the surrounding countries ATTACKED/INVADED ISRAEL. You're pretty much saying "Israel defended itself TOO well. It's evil and must be stopped".Zagrius

So you support the soviet occupation of eastern Europe? Because the soviet union defended itself "too well"?

I don't know the details of those events, and so can't honestly comment on them.

Just note this: The last time when the lands given to Israel were under Arab control was between 1270-1516 AD. After that the Turks (Ottoman Empire) had it, then the Brittians, and so on and so on.

So people lose their right for a land if it wasn't theirs for 2000 years (Hebrews), they lose their right for their lands if it wasn't theirs for 230 years (Native Americans), but for some reason almost 500 years is a magic "this is still ours" number? How long before they lose their right then, another 1500?

The ottoman empire controlled Israel until the end of the first world war...

How is this fair:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map_of_1947_Jewish_settlements_in_Palestine.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UN_Partition_Plan_Palestine.png

[QUOTE="Darthric"]

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

jointed

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

This EXACTLY what I meant with my second sentence...:roll: There has been fighting going on ever since the nation was founded.

But it did come into peacefull (and legal) existance, but STRAIGHT away it was attacked by the Arabs who tried to destroy it immediately.You are WRONG. Not Israels fault, it was happy to keep the borders and co exist.

No Arab attack and we would have the same borders now...

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

Darthric

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Darthric"]

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

Darthric

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

This EXACTLY what I meant with my second sentence...:roll: There has been fighting going on ever since the nation was founded.

But it did come into peacefull (and legal) existance, but STRAIGHT away it was attacked by the Arabs who tried to destroy it immediately.You are WRONG. Not Israels fault, it was happy to keep the borders and co exist.

No Arab attack and we would have the same borders now...

Of course they were happy to keep the borders...they had coveniently gained access to the Red Sea even though there were no jewish settlements anywhere near where the borders were drawn.

But it did come into peacefull (and legal) existance, but STRAIGHT away it was attacked by the Arabs who tried to destroy it immediately.You are WRONG. Not Israels fault, it was happy to keep the borders and co exist.

No Arab attack and we would have the same borders now...

Darthric

Yep, the Brits and UN forcibly divide country despite what the palestinians and Arab States say, but hey! It wasn't a war and it's got the UN seal of approval on it so it must be peaceful and legal. Just because the UN says it's "legal" doesn't make it right. This is what the Arab states thought and they tried to correct it.

The pre-Arab War borders shouldn't have existed in the first place.

[QUOTE="Darthric"]

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

deshields538

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

How does this make it more acceptable? The Germans planned a surprise attack against the Soviet Union in WW2. The Soviets came back from that and went all the way to Berlin.

But the other nations cry foul at Soviet influence in Eastern Europe after WW2 when it was also just taking steps to make itself less vulnerable to attack.

And boo hoo if Israel has been invaded throughout history. The Normans kicked the Saxons out of Great Britain in 1066 so does that mean present day England belongs to Denmark? No. Same goes for the USA.

The British and the UN had no right all to go and cut palestine into little pieces like that.

Do you know the difference between a preemptive strike and a surprise attack? Go learn it.

Tell you what here we are:

Preemptive war (or preemptive attack) is waged in an attempt to repel or defeat a perceived inevitable offensive or invasion, or to gain a strategic advantage in an impending (allegedly unavoidable) war.

WIKI^

Your line about the Saxions is rather strange, what your saying is because Israel has long been conquered its still Israel? Thanks for your support in my argument :roll:

And your last line, well thats the world for you, i just think a people who have lived in a land for thousands of years have a right to live there now...

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

Zagrius

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

[QUOTE="Darthric"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Darthric"]

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

jointed

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

This EXACTLY what I meant with my second sentence...:roll: There has been fighting going on ever since the nation was founded.

But it did come into peacefull (and legal) existance, but STRAIGHT away it was attacked by the Arabs who tried to destroy it immediately.You are WRONG. Not Israels fault, it was happy to keep the borders and co exist.

No Arab attack and we would have the same borders now...

Of course they were happy to keep the borders...they had coveniently gained access to the Red Sea even though there were no jewish settlements anywhere near where the borders were drawn.

Well it helps if you can have a port there you see, best to have at least one port on each sea?

So it was justified because the Israelis had a trading port on the red sea?

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

jointed

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

Do you know the difference between a preemptive strike and a surprise attack? Go learn it.

Tell you what here we are:

Preemptive war (or preemptive attack) is waged in an attempt to repel or defeat a perceived inevitable offensive or invasion, or to gain a strategic advantage in an impending (allegedly unavoidable) war.

WIKI^

Your line about the Saxions is rather strange, what your saying is because Israel has long been conquered its still Israel? Thanks for your support in my argument :roll:

And your last line, well thats the world for you, i just think a people who have lived in a land for thousands of years have a right to live there now...

Darthric

So you say the Soviet Union was planning to attack Germany? Wow... just wow. Stalin did everything possible to avoid a war with Hitler He sent Hitler trainloads of supplies to appease him, refused to send the Russian army anywhere near the German border for fear of provoking Hitler and even had a spy who warned him of the attack shot.

I'm saying the opposite of that. I do believe I had a no somewhere after that.

Well yes they have a right to live there together as they did before Israel was formed.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Darthric"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Darthric"]

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

Darthric

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

This EXACTLY what I meant with my second sentence...:roll: There has been fighting going on ever since the nation was founded.

But it did come into peacefull (and legal) existance, but STRAIGHT away it was attacked by the Arabs who tried to destroy it immediately.You are WRONG. Not Israels fault, it was happy to keep the borders and co exist.

No Arab attack and we would have the same borders now...

Of course they were happy to keep the borders...they had coveniently gained access to the Red Sea even though there were no jewish settlements anywhere near where the borders were drawn.

Well it helps if you can have a port there you see, best to have at least one port on each sea?

So it was justified because the Israelis had a trading port on the red sea?

Yeah of course it helps...but the problem is...the palestinians got nothing, not a single village...nada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png

Pretty unfair if you ask me...

[QUOTE="deshields538"][QUOTE="Darthric"]

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

Darthric

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

How does this make it more acceptable? The Germans planned a surprise attack against the Soviet Union in WW2. The Soviets came back from that and went all the way to Berlin.

But the other nations cry foul at Soviet influence in Eastern Europe after WW2 when it was also just taking steps to make itself less vulnerable to attack.

And boo hoo if Israel has been invaded throughout history. The Normans kicked the Saxons out of Great Britain in 1066 so does that mean present day England belongs to Denmark? No. Same goes for the USA.

The British and the UN had no right all to go and cut palestine into little pieces like that.

Do you know the difference between a preemptive strike and a surprise attack? Go learn it.

Tell you what here we are:

Preemptive war (or preemptive attack) is waged in an attempt to repel or defeat a perceived inevitable offensive or invasion, or to gain a strategic advantage in an impending (allegedly unavoidable) war.

WIKI^

Your line about the Saxions is rather strange, what your saying is because Israel has long been conquered its still Israel? Thanks for your support in my argument :roll:

And your last line, well thats the world for you, i just think a people who have lived in a land for thousands of years have a right to live there now...

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

Zagrius

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

well i think that u could say somehting about the situation only if u would visit israel and palestine(and get out alive) for urself,

after all israel is the only democracy in the middle east, the only modern nation in the middle east, and the only jewish state in the world, surrounded by hundreds of millions of muslims that think that "it should be wiped out from the earth".

but even though, they survived, they survive, and they will survive because they r righteous.

after 4000 years of countless empires and nations trying to destroy them, they survived, waaay after the people who tried to kill them, and it shall go on..

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

Zagrius

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

[QUOTE="Darthric"]

Do you know the difference between a preemptive strike and a surprise attack? Go learn it.

Tell you what here we are:

Preemptive war (or preemptive attack) is waged in an attempt to repel or defeat a perceived inevitable offensive or invasion, or to gain a strategic advantage in an impending (allegedly unavoidable) war.

WIKI^

Your line about the Saxions is rather strange, what your saying is because Israel has long been conquered its still Israel? Thanks for your support in my argument :roll:

And your last line, well thats the world for you, i just think a people who have lived in a land for thousands of years have a right to live there now...

deshields538

So you say the Soviet Union was planning to attack Germany? Wow... just wow. Stalin did everything possible to avoid a war with Hitler He sent Hitler trainloads of supplies to appease him, refused to send the Russian army anywhere near the German border for fear of provoking Hitler and even had a spy who warned him of the attack shot.

I'm saying the opposite of that. I do believe I had a no somewhere after that.

Well yes they have a right to live there together as they did before Israel was formed.

When did i say that? Im talking about Israel and the Arabs. The other guy brought in Germany/Russia, my definition was for Israels war...

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

jointed

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

Look at where they did have settlements. It's impossible to estimate the "fairness" of the plan if I don't get all the info. Heck let me do the ol' twisteroo! The map clearly shows no Palestinian settlements anywhere! Therefor, to be fair, the whole land should have been given to the Jews from the start.

Hey, it's your map.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

killtactics

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

If America invited them, most likely? Again, it wasn't occupied by an Arab nation for about 450 years at the time.

[QUOTE="Darthric"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Darthric"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Darthric"]

[QUOTE="jointed"]

I fail to see how the hell one can support/defend Israel...you'd have to be misinformed or just plain stupid.

It's not as if Israel peacefully came into existence and then all of a sudden the arabs began to launch missles and **** at them.

The Israelis have been demolishing large parts of the muslim quarters in Jerusalem, they've over decades conquered new parts of palestine, parts which were not a part of the original plan, they've demolished entire villages and forced their inhabitants to move inside of the west bank barrier...this **** is crazy.

They're doing a lot of messed up things and they're not accountable to anyone but themselves...

jointed

Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you one of those stupid people thst think the Isrelies came out of the sea one day?

The historic land of the Jews is modern day Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

It has been conquered by many outsiders and Jews on many occasion have been kicked out, thats why there found all over the world. Back and forth they have been sometimes expelled then let back in (to there own land ffs) The last people to control it was the British, who decided to split the country between the Jews and Muslims. 55% for the Jews 45% for the Muslims with Jerusalem, this was fine with the Jews, but straight away war was declared by the Islamic countries.

As soon as the state was created all Islamic counties on its border declared war DUMBASS check it, Israel fought for survival and won. And all land that Israel has gained has been through war, wars started by it the Arabs or pre-emptive strikes. And dont even bother to argue if there were justifiable because it is internationally recognizable fact that in all instances the Arab countries were massing for surprise attacks. An example the Yom Kippur War ( Yom Kippur being a very important Jewish holiday) like being attacked on a Christians Christmas day. Or the Israelis had good reason to think so (Russia fed wrong intelligence to the Arab countries for its own gain, causing them to mobilize, causing tension leading to war). The wars Israel began were to build an amount of strategic depth by attacking the Arabs first as they knew it was the only way they could survive.

Seriously before you call someone "stupid" read a history book instead of watching cartoons.

This EXACTLY what I meant with my second sentence...:roll: There has been fighting going on ever since the nation was founded.

But it did come into peacefull (and legal) existance, but STRAIGHT away it was attacked by the Arabs who tried to destroy it immediately.You are WRONG. Not Israels fault, it was happy to keep the borders and co exist.

No Arab attack and we would have the same borders now...

Of course they were happy to keep the borders...they had coveniently gained access to the Red Sea even though there were no jewish settlements anywhere near where the borders were drawn.

Well it helps if you can have a port there you see, best to have at least one port on each sea?

So it was justified because the Israelis had a trading port on the red sea?

Yeah of course it helps...but the problem is...the palestinians got nothing, not a single village...nada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png

Pretty unfair if you ask me...

Well it is a fair point, but blame the guys who drew the borders not Israel.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

Zagrius

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

Look at where they did have settlements. It's impossible to estimate the "fairness" of the plan if I don't get all the info. Heck let me do the ol' twisteroo! The map clearly shows no Palestinian settlements anywhere! Therefor, to be fair, the whole land should have been given to the Jews from the start.

Hey, it's your map.

All the green parts are palestinian land...I believe the jewish settlements were part of Palestine before the partition.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

jointed

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

Look at where they did have settlements. It's impossible to estimate the "fairness" of the plan if I don't get all the info. Heck let me do the ol' twisteroo! The map clearly shows no Palestinian settlements anywhere! Therefor, to be fair, the whole land should have been given to the Jews from the start.

Hey, it's your map.

All the green parts are palestinian land...I believe the jewish settlements were part of Palestine before the partition.

Yeah, part of the Palestinian Mandate, which was Britian's, not the local Arabs'. I want to see where the Palestinian settlements or private property was.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

Zagrius

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

Look at where they did have settlements. It's impossible to estimate the "fairness" of the plan if I don't get all the info. Heck let me do the ol' twisteroo! The map clearly shows no Palestinian settlements anywhere! Therefor, to be fair, the whole land should have been given to the Jews from the start.

Hey, it's your map.

All the green parts are palestinian land...I believe the jewish settlements were part of Palestine before the partition.

Yeah, part of the Palestinian Mandate, which was Britian's, not the local Arabs'. I want to see where the Palestinian settlements or private property was.

I can't find a map showing the palestinian settlements.

But answer this question, don't you think it was unfair? If the jews actually had any major settlements near the borders I would have been understandable...but come on.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

jointed

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

Look at where they did have settlements. It's impossible to estimate the "fairness" of the plan if I don't get all the info. Heck let me do the ol' twisteroo! The map clearly shows no Palestinian settlements anywhere! Therefor, to be fair, the whole land should have been given to the Jews from the start.

Hey, it's your map.

All the green parts are palestinian land...I believe the jewish settlements were part of Palestine before the partition.

Yeah, part of the Palestinian Mandate, which was Britian's, not the local Arabs'. I want to see where the Palestinian settlements or private property was.

I can't find a map showing the palestinian settlements.

But answer this question, don't you think it was unfair? If the jews actually had any major settlements near the borders I would have been understandable...but come on.

Okay, consider this: If that unsettled part was given for the Palestinian state, you would have a 3-part state divided by the Jewish state. Another thing is that the Jewish state, no matter what, would be surrounded by Arab countries. Obviously, they weren't in such great relations. As such, the Jewish State needed more options for import/export not through the Arabic nations.

Well there is some justification to getting a Rea Sea Port, im not saying its right, buts its justification.

Dont forget that the Palestinians had trading prospect with the Arab nations around them, this was not possible for Israel. I dont think its likely that countries that call for its destruction at birth are happy to trade with it. Thus giving the ports to Israel who would have needed them much more as all of there trading would be generally overseas can be considered fair. So there is some justification in Israel getting all of the ports, it is its only real option for trade, unlike Palestine...

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

Zagrius

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

Look at where they did have settlements. It's impossible to estimate the "fairness" of the plan if I don't get all the info. Heck let me do the ol' twisteroo! The map clearly shows no Palestinian settlements anywhere! Therefor, to be fair, the whole land should have been given to the Jews from the start.

Hey, it's your map.

All the green parts are palestinian land...I believe the jewish settlements were part of Palestine before the partition.

Yeah, part of the Palestinian Mandate, which was Britian's, not the local Arabs'. I want to see where the Palestinian settlements or private property was.

I can't find a map showing the palestinian settlements.

But answer this question, don't you think it was unfair? If the jews actually had any major settlements near the borders I would have been understandable...but come on.

Okay, consider this: If that unsettled part was given for the Palestinian state, you would have a 3-part state divided by the Jewish state. Another thing is that the Jewish state, no matter what, would be surrounded by Arab countries. Obviously, they weren't in such great relations. As such, the Jewish State needed more options for import/export not through the Arabic nations.

Hmm, I perfectly understand what your saying but I don't agree with you. (This goes for you too Darthric)

I personally think that the state of Israel never should have existed. Having said that, I do not support the annihilation of Israel or any terror attacks committed against it. I believe that I understand where you're comming from, but that our opinions simply differ.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

jointed

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

Look at where they did have settlements. It's impossible to estimate the "fairness" of the plan if I don't get all the info. Heck let me do the ol' twisteroo! The map clearly shows no Palestinian settlements anywhere! Therefor, to be fair, the whole land should have been given to the Jews from the start.

Hey, it's your map.

All the green parts are palestinian land...I believe the jewish settlements were part of Palestine before the partition.

Yeah, part of the Palestinian Mandate, which was Britian's, not the local Arabs'. I want to see where the Palestinian settlements or private property was.

I can't find a map showing the palestinian settlements.

But answer this question, don't you think it was unfair? If the jews actually had any major settlements near the borders I would have been understandable...but come on.

Okay, consider this: If that unsettled part was given for the Palestinian state, you would have a 3-part state divided by the Jewish state. Another thing is that the Jewish state, no matter what, would be surrounded by Arab countries. Obviously, they weren't in such great relations. As such, the Jewish State needed more options for import/export not through the Arabic nations.

Hmm, I perfectly understand what your saying but I don't agree with you.

I personally think that the state of Israel never should have existed. Having said that, I do not support the annihilation of Israel or any terror attacks committed against it. I believe that I understand where you're comming from, but that our opinions simply differ.

Personally I wouldn't really care where the Jewish state was made. But as things stand now it seems kind of late to just pack up and move somewhere else.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Give me an image that also shows the Arab settlements.

The Ottoman Empire isn't Arab. You don't see the Turks asking for Israel back. The relationship between the two nations is actually pretty friendly.

jointed

http://www.kibush.co.il/downloads/landloss.jpg

This only shows palestinian land though...

Sorry, I want to see settlements. I was in that huge area, and it's mostly desert and hardly hospitable areas. It couldn't have been better in 1947. Also, consider the fact that even if there were a few Palestinian settlements there (and land ownership doesn't mean that it's just Palestinian settlements there, also, was it all officially theirs, or is any non-Jewish-owned area automatically Palestinian?), there might not have been enough to compensate for the fact that putting all that area as Palestinian would have turned the Palestinian nation into a three-part country divided by the Jewish state.

It really doesn't matter, the jews shouldn't have been given the land if they had NO settlements anywhere close..whatsoever.

Look at where they did have settlements. It's impossible to estimate the "fairness" of the plan if I don't get all the info. Heck let me do the ol' twisteroo! The map clearly shows no Palestinian settlements anywhere! Therefor, to be fair, the whole land should have been given to the Jews from the start.

Hey, it's your map.

All the green parts are palestinian land...I believe the jewish settlements were part of Palestine before the partition.

Yeah, part of the Palestinian Mandate, which was Britian's, not the local Arabs'. I want to see where the Palestinian settlements or private property was.

I can't find a map showing the palestinian settlements.

But answer this question, don't you think it was unfair? If the jews actually had any major settlements near the borders I would have been understandable...but come on.

Okay, consider this: If that unsettled part was given for the Palestinian state, you would have a 3-part state divided by the Jewish state. Another thing is that the Jewish state, no matter what, would be surrounded by Arab countries. Obviously, they weren't in such great relations. As such, the Jewish State needed more options for import/export not through the Arabic nations.

Hmm, I perfectly understand what your saying but I don't agree with you. (This goes for you too Darthric)

I personally think that the state of Israel never should have existed. Having said that, I do not support the annihilation of Israel or any terror attacks committed against it. I believe that I understand where you're comming from, but that our opinions simply differ.

Ok, fair enough, were all entitled to our own opinion.

BTW there was just a report on the news about Gaza, Israelis letting supplies in. They also showed the Palestinian government/assembly whatever they got in Gaza meeting in candlelight, when it was day outside. I know its bad but talk about playing up a situation:roll:

While I was rasied Jewish, I am against the creation of Israel in the first place.EboyLOL

Why?

[QUOTE="EboyLOL"]While I was rasied Jewish, I am against the creation of Israel in the first place.123625

Why?

[QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="EboyLOL"]While I was rasied Jewish, I am against the creation of Israel in the first place.EboyLOL

Why?

I'll agree with you there. They just rushed the whole thing (and even left before they were supposed to) so they could rid themselves of the area

Dont forget that the Palestinians had trading prospect with the Arab nations around them, this was not possible for Israel. I dont think its likely that countries that call for its destruction at birth are happy to trade with it. Thus giving the ports to Israel who would have needed them much more as all of there trading would be generally overseas can be considered fair. So there is some justification in Israel getting all of the ports, it is its only real option for trade, unlike Palestine...

Darthric

[QUOTE="Darthric"]

Dont forget that the Palestinians had trading prospect with the Arab nations around them, this was not possible for Israel. I dont think its likely that countries that call for its destruction at birth are happy to trade with it. Thus giving the ports to Israel who would have needed them much more as all of there trading would be generally overseas can be considered fair. So there is some justification in Israel getting all of the ports, it is its only real option for trade, unlike Palestine...

quiglythegreat

He didn't say that Israelis are richer, he said that they had less options for trade-routes, as they were surrounded by hostile countries.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Darthric"]

Dont forget that the Palestinians had trading prospect with the Arab nations around them, this was not possible for Israel. I dont think its likely that countries that call for its destruction at birth are happy to trade with it. Thus giving the ports to Israel who would have needed them much more as all of there trading would be generally overseas can be considered fair. So there is some justification in Israel getting all of the ports, it is its only real option for trade, unlike Palestine...

Zagrius

He didn't say that Israelis are richer, he said that they had less options for trade-routes, as they were surrounded by hostile countries.