Liberals- Any of soceietys problems, we arent spending enough money on!!

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Motokid6"]More money to the space program be nice. One whole penny maybe ..y'know instead of a half penny. I want to see another moon landing. Many of the solutions to the world major problems are up there.Motokid6

Yeah, I dunno about that.

So how is any of that going to solve some of the world's biggest issues such as distribution of resources? We can have more and more resources but what's to say it won't simply be the same old story - ie: the few reaping the benefit while much of the world goes without?

This thread is awful.chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]This thread is awful.AdamPA1006

The government backing student loans is part of the problem. If there were no such things as Stafford Loans, colleges would not be guaranteed to get repaid if the student defaults and the price of college would go back down due to lack of enrollment as people would not be able to necessarily afford to go. As it is, with people wanting their student loans forgiven now (a big part of OWS wanted this) doesn't help matters.

WhiteKnight77

[QUOTE="AdamPA1006"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]This thread is awful.The-Apostle

I would say that regardless of political affiliation people would like to see more money be spent on the issues that they personally care about. Republicans want to see more spent on defense, and dems want to see more spent on education. The thing is we have the strongest military on the face of the earth, and the same can't be said of our education system.

Regardless though I doubt you find anyone who will try to claim that we should fix something by taking away money from it (with the possible exception of politics). 

[QUOTE="Amvis"]

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

Force you to treat blacks like people?

worlock77

Not complaining about that. The other stuff though.

What other stuff?

I'll just name a few. Feds still enforce rulings made back in the 1950's to bus kids around in many Southern cities. In Baton Rouge, this no longer makes sense, and actually hurts the education of the children. You could literally move to a good school district in the city. But if you are a certain skin color, and the race ratios are not 50-50 at another district then be prepared to be bussed two hours away to a shitty school solely because of your skin color. It's 2013 for crying out loud. It needs to stop.

Another is this: BP oil spill happens. The Dutch offer to help us clean it up shortly after it occurs. The president TOLD them NOT to do it. So then we get our Gulf Coast messed up more than it should have. Then to top it all off, the president then puts a moratoriam on oil in the Gulf Coast, regardless the oil company. But hey that's okay, it's not like the blue collar workers of the South aren't hurting in this economy anyways.

Then you have the issue of school vouchers. Feds sue Louisiana for offering vouchers to poor minority families to go to any public or private school of their choosing. That way they can avoid the corrupt, and terrible Orleans Parish school system. Why sue? It's not like the feds care about New Orleans anyways. Heck the Army Core of Engineers couldn't even build a levee properly. They built it pouring silt as a foundation because it was quick and cheap. But that's another subject.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Amvis"]

Not complaining about that. The other stuff though.

Amvis

What other stuff?

I'll just name a few. Feds still enforce rulings made back in the 1950's to bus kids around in many Southern cities. In Baton Rouge, this no longer makes sense, and actually hurts the education of the children. You could literally move to a good school district in the city. But if you are a certain skin color, and the race ratios are not 50-50 at another district then be prepared to be bussed two hours away to a shitty school solely because of your skin color. It's 2013 for crying out loud. It needs to stop.

Another is this: BP oil spill happens. The Dutch offer to help us clean it up shortly after it occurs. The president TOLD them NOT to do it. So then we get our Gulf Coast messed up more than it should have. Then to top it all off, the president then puts a moratoriam on oil in the Gulf Coast, regardless the oil company. But hey that's okay, it's not like the blue collar workers of the South aren't hurting in this economy anyways.

Then you have the issue of school vouchers. Feds sue Louisiana for offering vouchers to poor minority families to go to any public or private school of their choosing. That way they can avoid the corrupt, and terrible Orleans Parish school system. Why sue? It's not like the feds care about New Orleans anyways. Heck the Army Core of Engineers couldn't even build a levee properly. They built it pouring silt as a foundation because it was quick and cheap. But that's another subject.

As a side note, Matt Damon, a far-left liberal, defended public education. I wonder if he would defend it if he saw the public schools in New Orleans. The public schools there are AWFUL.

[QUOTE="Amvis"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

What other stuff?

BMD004

I'll just name a few. Feds still enforce rulings made back in the 1950's to bus kids around in many Southern cities. In Baton Rouge, this no longer makes sense, and actually hurts the education of the children. You could literally move to a good school district in the city. But if you are a certain skin color, and the race ratios are not 50-50 at another district then be prepared to be bussed two hours away to a shitty school solely because of your skin color. It's 2013 for crying out loud. It needs to stop.

Another is this: BP oil spill happens. The Dutch offer to help us clean it up shortly after it occurs. The president TOLD them NOT to do it. So then we get our Gulf Coast messed up more than it should have. Then to top it all off, the president then puts a moratoriam on oil in the Gulf Coast, regardless the oil company. But hey that's okay, it's not like the blue collar workers of the South aren't hurting in this economy anyways.

Then you have the issue of school vouchers. Feds sue Louisiana for offering vouchers to poor minority families to go to any public or private school of their choosing. That way they can avoid the corrupt, and terrible Orleans Parish school system. Why sue? It's not like the feds care about New Orleans anyways. Heck the Army Core of Engineers couldn't even build a levee properly. They built it pouring silt as a foundation because it was quick and cheap. But that's another subject.

As a side note, Matt Damon, a far-left liberal, defended public education. I wonder if he would defend it if he saw the public schools in New Orleans. The public schools there are AWFUL.

So how do school vouchers offer a better alternative to public schooling? Do they ensure that every child has access to an education regardless of econimic standing? If so how do offer a better education?

As a whole, the Liberal persuasion loves to take (steal) my money and constantly pour it into programs and services and when they fail (which they normally do) the solution isn't to change the game plan but to throw more and more money at a problem. The United States fairs quite poorly in terms of education when compared to the rest of the modern and civilized world. Instead of holding students, teachers and parents responsible and accountable along with changing the curriculum, we'll just throw more and more money at the problem.....cause eventually it will work, right? Wrong.

Money is one of the biggest difference between myself and your average Liberal. Fixing a problem goes beyond money. Unemployment is rather high and the work force is at its lowest since the 1970's. Instead of creating jobs and making the United States a more business friendly climate the solution from the left is to increase unemployment and benefits.

We've seen the Liberal experiment fail all over the country.

To the person above me, being a conservative is different than being a Republican. Look at McCain as an example.

Solaryellow

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="Amvis"]

I'll just name a few. Feds still enforce rulings made back in the 1950's to bus kids around in many Southern cities. In Baton Rouge, this no longer makes sense, and actually hurts the education of the children. You could literally move to a good school district in the city. But if you are a certain skin color, and the race ratios are not 50-50 at another district then be prepared to be bussed two hours away to a shitty school solely because of your skin color. It's 2013 for crying out loud. It needs to stop.

Another is this: BP oil spill happens. The Dutch offer to help us clean it up shortly after it occurs. The president TOLD them NOT to do it. So then we get our Gulf Coast messed up more than it should have. Then to top it all off, the president then puts a moratoriam on oil in the Gulf Coast, regardless the oil company. But hey that's okay, it's not like the blue collar workers of the South aren't hurting in this economy anyways.

Then you have the issue of school vouchers. Feds sue Louisiana for offering vouchers to poor minority families to go to any public or private school of their choosing. That way they can avoid the corrupt, and terrible Orleans Parish school system. Why sue? It's not like the feds care about New Orleans anyways. Heck the Army Core of Engineers couldn't even build a levee properly. They built it pouring silt as a foundation because it was quick and cheap. But that's another subject.

 

 

worlock77

As a side note, Matt Damon, a far-left liberal, defended public education. I wonder if he would defend it if he saw the public schools in New Orleans. The public schools there are AWFUL.

So how do school vouchers offer a better alternative to public schooling? Do they ensure that every child has access to an education regardless of econimic standing? If so how do offer a better education?

It doesn't get rid of public schools. It allows the student to get out of failing public schools.

If you have lived in New Orleans, you know how terrible the schools are. Even students who get straight A's at these schools are way behind when they get to college. Kids who did everything right are way behind because their school failed them.

They need the option to get out of those schools.

[QUOTE="Amvis"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

What other stuff?

BMD004

I'll just name a few. Feds still enforce rulings made back in the 1950's to bus kids around in many Southern cities. In Baton Rouge, this no longer makes sense, and actually hurts the education of the children. You could literally move to a good school district in the city. But if you are a certain skin color, and the race ratios are not 50-50 at another district then be prepared to be bussed two hours away to a shitty school solely because of your skin color. It's 2013 for crying out loud. It needs to stop.

Another is this: BP oil spill happens. The Dutch offer to help us clean it up shortly after it occurs. The president TOLD them NOT to do it. So then we get our Gulf Coast messed up more than it should have. Then to top it all off, the president then puts a moratoriam on oil in the Gulf Coast, regardless the oil company. But hey that's okay, it's not like the blue collar workers of the South aren't hurting in this economy anyways.

Then you have the issue of school vouchers. Feds sue Louisiana for offering vouchers to poor minority families to go to any public or private school of their choosing. That way they can avoid the corrupt, and terrible Orleans Parish school system. Why sue? It's not like the feds care about New Orleans anyways. Heck the Army Core of Engineers couldn't even build a levee properly. They built it pouring silt as a foundation because it was quick and cheap. But that's another subject.

As a side note, Matt Damon, a far-left liberal, defended public education. I wonder if he would defend it if he saw the public schools in New Orleans. The public schools there are AWFUL.

The way it works is that if a public school is bad based on an accountability system, the parents can apply for vouchers. Parents can then get their child out of the terrible public school they are forced to go to, and put them in a better school.

It doesn't get rid of public schools. It allows the student to get out of failing public schools.

If you have lived in New Orleans, you know how terrible the schools are. Even students who get straight A's at these schools are way behind when they get to college. Kids who did everything right are way behind because their school failed them.

They need the option to get out of those schools.

BMD004

It isn't an "either/or" scenario, underfunded schools need funding before anything else happens.

this is the problem with this country, people just want to fight and name call each other and not actually understand people's differing opinions

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

The way it works is that if a public school is bad based on an accountability system, the parents can apply for vouchers. Parents can then get their child out of the terrible public school they are forced to go to, and put them in a better school.

It doesn't get rid of public schools. It allows the student to get out of failing public schools.

If you have lived in New Orleans, you know how terrible the schools are. Even students who get straight A's at these schools are way behind when they get to college. Kids who did everything right are way behind because their school failed them.

They need the option to get out of those schools.

Aljosa23

It isn't an "either/or" scenario, underfunded schools need funding before anything else happens.

It's political. It's not about what is best for the students.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

The way it works is that if a public school is bad based on an accountability system, the parents can apply for vouchers. Parents can then get their child out of the terrible public school they are forced to go to, and put them in a better school.

It doesn't get rid of public schools. It allows the student to get out of failing public schools.

If you have lived in New Orleans, you know how terrible the schools are. Even students who get straight A's at these schools are way behind when they get to college. Kids who did everything right are way behind because their school failed them.

They need the option to get out of those schools.

Aljosa23

It isn't an "either/or" scenario, underfunded schools need funding before anything else happens.

]Voucher programs have proven to work. 

BMD004

[citation needed] and not from a conservative think tank. School vouchers are public funds for private schools. That shouldn't happen when the schools that students are leaving are underfunded. 

It's a mask for funding to be given to school that have alternative, and likely religious agendas.

Voucher programs have proven to work. Many democrats don't like them because teachers unions don't like them. And teachers unions support the democrats.

It's political. It's not about what is best for the students.

BMD004

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

a) dismantling something rather than fixing it

BMD004

School vouchers are public funds for private schools. That shouldn't happen when the schools that students are leaving are underfunded. 

It's a mask for funding to be given to school that have alternative, and likely religious agendas.

jimkabrhel

No wonder. I knew there had to be a catch to Conservatives wanting education reform.

[QUOTE="Solaryellow"]As a whole, the Liberal persuasion loves to take (steal) my money and constantly pour it into programs and services and when they fail (which they normally do) the solution isn't to change the game plan but to throw more and more money at a problem. The United States fairs quite poorly in terms of education when compared to the rest of the modern and civilized world. Instead of holding students, teachers and parents responsible and accountable along with changing the curriculum, we'll just throw more and more money at the problem.....cause eventually it will work, right? Wrong.

Money is one of the biggest difference between myself and your average Liberal. Fixing a problem goes beyond money. Unemployment is rather high and the work force is at its lowest since the 1970's. Instead of creating jobs and making the United States a more business friendly climate the solution from the left is to increase unemployment and benefits.

We've seen the Liberal experiment fail all over the country.

To the person above me, being a conservative is different than being a Republican. Look at McCain as an example.

Barbariser

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

]Voucher programs have proven to work. 

jimkabrhel

[citation needed] and not from a conservative think tank. School vouchers are public funds for private schools. That shouldn't happen when the schools that students are leaving are underfunded. 

It's a mask for funding to be given to school that have alternative, and likely religious agendas.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/vouchers/choice/provouchers.html

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/04/indiana-school-voucher-program-called-a-success/

http://www.examiner.com/article/should-obama-look-to-sweden-s-successful-school-voucher-program

Yes, Sweden has a school voucher program. And we all know how much liberals love Sweden. You would think liberals would lap up a school voucher program. It helps the poor, it helps minorities, and Sweden does it. But nope. They cater to the teachers unions instead.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

]Voucher programs have proven to work. 

jimkabrhel

[citation needed] and not from a conservative think tank. School vouchers are public funds for private schools. That shouldn't happen when the schools that students are leaving are underfunded. 

It's a mask for funding to be given to school that have alternative, and likely religious agendas.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/04/indiana-school-voucher-program-called-a-success/

BMD004

lol damn. You really can't see why people would be against this implementation? good grief

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

Voucher programs have proven to work. Many democrats don't like them because teachers unions don't like them. And teachers unions support the democrats.

It's political. It's not about what is best for the students.

Aljosa23

http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2012/07/union_advises_schools_to_refus.html

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/27/louisiana-teachers-union-threatens-to-sue-voucher-schools/

I'd love to continue this topic (Education is a passion of mine) but alas, TIFF is calling

will reply later to interdasting posts

[QUOTE="Barbariser"][QUOTE="Solaryellow"]As a whole, the Liberal persuasion loves to take (steal) my money and constantly pour it into programs and services and when they fail (which they normally do) the solution isn't to change the game plan but to throw more and more money at a problem. The United States fairs quite poorly in terms of education when compared to the rest of the modern and civilized world. Instead of holding students, teachers and parents responsible and accountable along with changing the curriculum, we'll just throw more and more money at the problem.....cause eventually it will work, right? Wrong.

Money is one of the biggest difference between myself and your average Liberal. Fixing a problem goes beyond money. Unemployment is rather high and the work force is at its lowest since the 1970's. Instead of creating jobs and making the United States a more business friendly climate the solution from the left is to increase unemployment and benefits.

We've seen the Liberal experiment fail all over the country.

To the person above me, being a conservative is different than being a Republican. Look at McCain as an example.

LOXO7

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/04/indiana-school-voucher-program-called-a-success/

Aljosa23

lol damn. You really can't see why people would be against this implementation? good grief

It was their CHOICE.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

]Voucher programs have proven to work. 

BMD004

[citation needed] and not from a conservative think tank. School vouchers are public funds for private schools. That shouldn't happen when the schools that students are leaving are underfunded. 

It's a mask for funding to be given to school that have alternative, and likely religious agendas.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/vouchers/choice/provouchers.html

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/04/indiana-school-voucher-program-called-a-success/

http://www.examiner.com/article/should-obama-look-to-sweden-s-successful-school-voucher-program

Yes, Sweden has a school voucher program. And we all know how much liberals love Sweden. You would think liberals would lap up a school voucher program. It helps the poor, it helps minorities, and Sweden does it. But nope. They cater to the teachers unions instead.

Thats because teachers unions bankroll them.

Same reason republicans are always bending over for corporations.

If you dont like the process, then get on board for campaign finance reform and dont support parties trying to loosen the standards via court rulings such as citizens united.

Eventually the "good" schools will be overcrowded and each child will suffer because they aren't getting 1-on-1 education.

It isn't an "either/or" scenario, underfunded schools need funding before anything else happens.

Aljosa23

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/04/indiana-school-voucher-program-called-a-success/

BMD004

lol damn. You really can't see why people would be against this implementation? good grief

It was their CHOICE.

Parents should absolutely have the choice to send their children wherever they want, even to home school them. That does not mean that public schools that are underfunded should have more funding taken away. 

One of the other issues in this discussion is that lack of oversight in many states when it comes to private schools, specifically charter schools. Those schools don't always have to follow specific curricula, and that leads many schools, religious ones, to be removing scientific concepts and putting in intelligent designs, or creationism.

That isn't science. If we want to compete in an incresingly competitive world market for jobs and economies, we cannot be hamstringing out children be teaching them religious nonsense.

You mentioned Sweden. Perhaps we should use their educational system as a model, at least in giving schools more flexibility. I don't necessarily agree with programs like "No Child Left Behind" or "Common Core", but there should still be oversight on curricula.

Blindly giving parents money to send their students to schools where they aren't getting a proper education isn't the answer. 

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/04/indiana-school-voucher-program-called-a-success/

BMD004

lol damn. You really can't see why people would be against this implementation? good grief

It was their CHOICE.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]"The Fort Wayne Journal Gazette reports in the programs first year $15.5 million in taxpayer funds were sent to largely religious-affiliated private schools rather than public schools."

lol damn. You really can't see why people would be against this implementation? good grief

 

 

thebest31406

It was their CHOICE.

The school was old, so were the books and everything else you can think of. The building was small and it wasn't fancy at all.

Yet it was a "blue ribbon" school. What's a blue ribbon school? From Wiki:

"The National Blue Ribbon Schools Program is a United States government program created in 1982 to honor schools which have achieved high levels of performance or made significant improvements in closing the achievement gap in schools where at least 40% of the student population is classified as disadvantaged."

So how was a poor little catholic school able to educate the kids so well when they weren't well-funded?

The way it works is that if a public school is bad based on an accountability system, the parents can apply for vouchers. Parents can then get their child out of the terrible public school they are forced to go to, and put them in a better school.

 

It doesn't get rid of public schools. It allows the student to get out of failing public schools.

 

If you have lived in New Orleans, you know how terrible the schools are. Even students who get straight A's at these schools are way behind when they get to college. Kids who did everything right are way behind because their school failed them.

 

They need the option to get out of those schools.

BMD004

Yeah except the voucher program came under fire for sending kids to creationist schools with public money, something that is quite illegal.  

Blindly giving parents money to send their students to schools where they aren't getting a proper education isn't the answer. 

jimkabrhel

Is it that likely that the parents are going to sabotage their own children's future that the public must decide what is best for them instead?

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

Blindly giving parents money to send their students to schools where they aren't getting a proper education isn't the answer. 

LOXO7

Is it that likely that the parents are going to sabotage their own children's future that the public must decide what is best for them instead?

If parents are going to send their children to private schools, those parents should pay, end of story. 

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

The way it works is that if a public school is bad based on an accountability system, the parents can apply for vouchers. Parents can then get their child out of the terrible public school they are forced to go to, and put them in a better school.

 

It doesn't get rid of public schools. It allows the student to get out of failing public schools.

 

If you have lived in New Orleans, you know how terrible the schools are. Even students who get straight A's at these schools are way behind when they get to college. Kids who did everything right are way behind because their school failed them.

 

They need the option to get out of those schools.

HoolaHoopMan

Yeah except the voucher program came under fire for sending kids to creationist schools with public money, something that is quite illegal.  

There is nothing wrong with that.

Why would there be anything wrong with that?

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]This thread is awful.Person0

The program didn't send kids to creationist schools. The parents chose those schools.

 

There is nothing wrong with that.

 

Why would there be anything wrong with that?

BMD004

Parents are more then welcome to send their kids to schools where they'll be lied to by relgious folk.  The problem here being that the government can't fund such an action.  Creation has shown to be illegal to promote in public education.  

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

The program didn't send kids to creationist schools. The parents chose those schools.

 

There is nothing wrong with that.

 

Why would there be anything wrong with that?

HoolaHoopMan

Parents are more then welcome to send their kids to schools where they'll be lied to by relgious folk.  The problem here being that the government can't fund such an action.  Creation has shown to be illegal to promote in public education.  

But when parents can send their child to whatever school they want, this issue is avoided.