Man, Circumcision is barbaric

if there was any severe problems with cutting the foreskin, then I think we would have stopped by now. Redneck33

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

Im cut and i was complaining.

EL OH EL x 10 " Circumcision isn't necessary, but I want it done because of the health benefits"

Redneck33

What :?? Circumcision isn't necessary. I thought you and I agreed with that.

And I have already posted a link showing the benefits, and they are widely acknowledged as fact, so yes, I would want it done because of the health benefits.

Im laughing because you said it isnt necessary and then said theres health benefits. Health benefits are regarded as necessary.

ANNNNNNNNND my sources are from many, including national medical associations one of which being the American.

The following cultural beliefs, or myths, are often used as reasons for circumcision.After each myth, some relevant facts are provided to present a more accurate picture of this procedure.Parents should understand the full implications of circumcision before making this irreversible decision for their child.

Myth #1: Circumcision is recommended by doctors and medical organizations

Fact: Circumcision is not recommended by any national medical association in the world.Fifteen national and international medical associations have extensively studied infant circumcision and its effects and found no significant evidence to support this practice.In March 1999, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) concluded that infant circumcision is not recommended as a routine procedure.1The circumcision policy statements of the American Medical Association (AMA) and the American Academy of Family Physicians have concurred with this position.2-3The AMA calls infant circumcision "non-therapeutic."

Myth #2: It's just a little piece of skin, he won't miss it.

Fact: The prepuce (foreskin) makes up as much as half of the skin system of the penis.4It is an extension of the shaft skin that folds over onto itself, completely covering and protecting the glans (an internal organ) and provides the mobility of the shaft skin necessary for frictionless intercourse and masturbation.The foreskin has three known functions: protective, immunological, and sexual.It contains about 10,000 highly specialized nerve endings and several feet of blood vessels.An adult male foreskin, if unfolded and spread out, would be about the size of index card (3 x 5 inches), much more than a "little piece of skin."Many sexually active men circumcised in adulthood report a significant decrease in sexual pleasure and comfort because of the loss of sensitive nerve endings, skin mobility and natural lubrication.

Myth #3: The care of a circumcised penis is easier than an intact penis.

Fact: For the care of an intact penis the AAP recommends, "Leave it alone." 5No special care is required – an intact child should have the external surface of his penis (and the rest of his body) washed regularly to keep clean.When a male is older and can retract his foreskin (which typically occurs by puberty), a simple rinsing is all that is necessary. 6Other cultural myths about special cleaning procedures are just that – myth.

Myth #4: Circumcision protects males from urinary tract infections.

Fact: Overall, urinary tract infections (UTI) occur at about the same rate in male and female infants during the first six months of life.7Regardless of circumcision status, infants who present with their first UTI at 6 months (or less) are likely to have an underlying genitouninary abnormality.In children with a normal underlying anatomy, a study found as many circumcised infants with a UTI as those who retained their foreskin.8The appropriate treatment for UTI, in males as well as females, is antibiotics, not prophylactic excision of the prepuce.According to the AAP, "Urinary tract infections are usually not life threatening and are easily treated in most cases."Breastfeeding provides some measure of protection against UTI during the first six months of life.9

Myth #5: Circumcision is effective in the prevention of penile cancer.

Fact: "The American Cancer Society does not consider routine circumcision to be a valid or effective measure to prevent such cancers... Penile cancer is an extremely rare condition, affecting one in 200,000 men... Perpetrating the mistaken belief that circumcision prevents cancer is inappropriate.'' 10

The American Medical Association, in a July 2000 report, states, "… because this disease [penile cancer] is rare and occurs later in life, the use of circumcision as a preventive practice is not justified." 2

Myth #6: Almost everyone is circumcised…I don't want my son to be teased in the locker room.

Fact:The circumcision rate for males worldwide is about 15%.Even in the US, the only country that circumcises a majority of its male newborns for non-religious reasons, the circumcision rate is decreasing.According the National Center for Health Statistics, the US circumcision rate is approximately 60% (varies widely by region) and slowly decreasing.According to many intact males, the "teasing" concern is vastly overstated.For many boys, genital status is neither an important issue nor one that is discussed.In the unlikely event of concerns later in life, at least the person can make his own decision about an irreversible body alteration that has no medical justification.

Myth #7: Circumcision is a simple and painless procedure… it only takes a few minutes.

Fact:While circumcision is a relatively quick procedure, it is extremely painful for the infant.The initial part of the process involves a forced separation of the foreskin, which is fused to the glans (head) in much the same way as a fingernail is joined to the finger.The AAP says the following about EMLA cream, one of the most common pain relief methods, "The analgesic effect is limited during the phases associated with extensive tissue trauma…" 1Although they cannot remember the pain as adults, circumcised male infants have increased pain response in vaccinations 4 to 6 months later.11Circumcision appears to lower the pain threshold.

Myth #8: Circumcision makes the penis cleaner and more hygienic.

Fact:Circumcision removes the protective portion of mobile shaft skin, which is intended to cover the glans (head) of the penis.The glans is the internal portion of genitalia (for both genders).Circumcision artificially exposes and denudes this highly sensitive tissue, resulting in a buildup of keratin and a dry, densensitized part of the penis.And contrary to popular myth, more sensation does not lead tp control problems.Based on reports from men circumcised as adults, just the opposite is true.With more sensation, a man has better feedback and can better determine his proximity to the "orgasmic threshold."

Myth #9: Circumcision prevents AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs).

Fact:Some studies show that circumcision has a slight preventive effect for AIDS and some STDs; however, other studies show an insignificant or opposite effect, especially for chlamydia.The bottom line: sexual practices have a much greater effect on the chance of becoming infected than circumcision status.If someone acts on the misconception that circumcision alone will protect them, they are taking unwise chances.

Myth #10: The history of non-religious circumcision is based on disease prevention.

Fact:Non-ritual circumcision evolved from a misunderstanding of bodily function by physicians of the late-19th century.12Many doctors of that era believed that a normal foreskin could cause disease and lead to increased incidence of "self-abuse."John Harvey Kellogg, of cereal fame, was a proponent of genital cutting as a cure for this "horrible practice."He recommended performing circumcision "without administering an anesthetic, as the pain attending the operation will have a salutary [health-giving] effect upon the mind, especially if connected with the idea of punishment."

This fact sheet is a presentation of the Pennsylvania chapter of NOCIRC (National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers).

References:

1.American Academy of Pediatrics, Circumcision Policy Statement- March 1, 1999

2.American Medical Association, Report 10 of the Council on Scientific Affairs (I-99), July 6, 2000

3.American Academy of Family Physicians, Position Paper on Neonatal Circumcision, February 14, 2002

4.Cold CJ, Taylor J. The prepuce. BJU Int 1999; 83:34-44

5.American Academy of Pediatrics pamphlet. Newborns: Care of the Uncircumcised Penis – Guidelines for Parents. 1990

6. CIRP: Normal development of the prepuce: Birth through age 18. www.cirp.org/library/normal/

7. Marild S, Jodal U.Incidence rate of symptomatic urinary tract infection in children under 6 years of age.Acta Paediatrica 1998;87:549-52

8. Mueller E, Steinhardt G, Naseer S.The Incidence of Genitourinary Abnormalities in Circumcised and Uncircumcised Boys Presenting with an Initial Urinary Tract Infection by 6 Months of Age.Pediatrics 1997;100(supplement):580

9. Pisacane A, Graziano L, Mazzarella G, Scarpellino B, Zona G.Breast-feeding and urinary tract infection.Pediatrics 1992;120:87-89

10.Letter from the American Cancer Society (National Home Office) to the American Academy of Pediatrics, 16 Feb 1996

11. Taddio A, Katz J, Ilersich A, Koren G. Effect of Neonatal Circumcision on Pain Response During Subsequent Routine Vaccination. Lancet 1997;349:599-603.

12. Gollaher D. Circumcision: A History of the World's Most Controversial Surgery, New York, Basic Books, 2000

http://www.nocircpa.org/4642.html

^AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION IS REFRENCED. YOU CANNOT GET A BETTER SOURCE.

So no, the benefits of circumsicion are not regarded as facts, and they are not regarded as health benefits. Its a silly excuse to get a few more bucks. Doctors wanted to remove my tonsils even though ive never even so much as had a slight problem with them. Its just a cheap trick.

I was watching Penn and Teller and they talked about circumcision and how it is a load of bull. A lot of the stuff they said really stuck with me and I did a bit of research on it.

How can people let this useless, painful, and awful surgery done to their babies? What kind of a first impression is it for a baby to literally have part of his penis shaved off. If you support this surgery, tell me have you seen a video of it? It is one of the most awful things I've ever seen. Yes, im totally traumatized from my circumcision. :roll:

There is no benefit to it. Wrong

It does slightly protect against STI if you are having unprotected sex, big whoop. If you have unprotected sex with someone with an STI you'll get one anyway. Use a condom to deal with that. Their is no gaurantee that you will or will not get it, its all based on chance. I would prefer to have a lower chance of getting it.

Studies show women couldn't care less. Uncircumcised actually has more sexual benefits do to more nerve endings and it has built in 'ribs' (For his and her pleasure, what did you think ribbed condoms were for?) Yes, many women do care, quite a few think uncircumcised penises look discusting. The pleasure argument really cant hold up. Circumcised or not, you still feel an extreme amount of pleasure. Anyway, I dont think a baby really knows what it feels like. Their is a huge difference between the regenerative properties of a baby and a grown adult.

Cleanliness is not an issue, you can clean is just as easy and you can go from uncircumcised to circumcised if you want just by folding the thing back. I don't get it. Why do parents let this crap happen = Yes, cleanliness is an issue. Most young kids just arent smart enough to clean there. The parents cant make them. What if they went to school and said that their daddy played with their "willy"?

A link for info
NOCIRC

Being quite honest, I think my rights were violated when the doctors did this to me WITHOUT my parents permission.

Toriko42

[QUOTE="Redneck33"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

Im cut and i was complaining.

EL OH EL x 10 " Circumcision isn't necessary, but I want it done because of the health benefits"

H8sMikeMoore

What :?? Circumcision isn't necessary. I thought you and I agreed with that.

And I have already posted a link showing the benefits, and they are widely acknowledged as fact, so yes, I would want it done because of the health benefits.

Im laughing because you said it isnt necessary and then said theres health benefits. Health benefits are regarded as necessary.

ANNNNNNNNND my sources are from many, including national medical associations one of which being the American.

-Wall of text-

^AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION IS REFRENCED. YOU CANNOT GET A BETTER SOURCE.

So no, the benefits of circumsicion are not regarded as facts, and they are not regarded as health benefits. Its a silly excuse to get a few more bucks. Doctors wanted to remove my tonsils even though ive never even so much as had a slight problem with them. Its just a cheap trick.

Having health benefits does not mean it should be necessary. If you get your tonsils removed, then you won't have to worry about the problems that could arise because of the tonsils.That doesn't mean it should be necessary to remove them.

American Medical association is mentioned in one of the myths. That doesn't mean it supports all of them. Also, much like the NAACP, these organizations do not speak for the general public. Many doctors still think that circumcision is a good idea.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="Redneck33"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

Im cut and i was complaining.

EL OH EL x 10 " Circumcision isn't necessary, but I want it done because of the health benefits"

Redneck33

What :?? Circumcision isn't necessary. I thought you and I agreed with that.

And I have already posted a link showing the benefits, and they are widely acknowledged as fact, so yes, I would want it done because of the health benefits.

Im laughing because you said it isnt necessary and then said theres health benefits. Health benefits are regarded as necessary.

ANNNNNNNNND my sources are from many, including national medical associations one of which being the American.

-Wall of text-

^AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION IS REFRENCED. YOU CANNOT GET A BETTER SOURCE.

So no, the benefits of circumsicion are not regarded as facts, and they are not regarded as health benefits. Its a silly excuse to get a few more bucks. Doctors wanted to remove my tonsils even though ive never even so much as had a slight problem with them. Its just a cheap trick.

Having health benefits does not mean it should be necessary. If you get your tonsils removed, then you won't have to worry about the problems that could arise because of the tonsils.That doesn't mean it should be necessary to remove them.

American Medical association is mentioned in one of the myths. That doesn't mean it supports all of them. Also, much like the NAACP, these organizations do not speak for the general public. Many doctors still think that circumcision is a good idea.

Theres "health benefits" of keeping the skin there too, actually theyre of the same level as removing it.

it protects it from becoming dry. Why is that as important as the proclaimed "health benefits?" Because the health benefits are bull.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

Im cut and i was complaining.

EL OH EL x 10 " Circumcision isn't necessary, but I want it done because of the health benefits"

Redneck33

What :?? Circumcision isn't necessary. I thought you and I agreed with that.

And I have already posted a link showing the benefits, and they are widely acknowledged as fact, so yes, I would want it done because of the health benefits.

can we all agree that it is about preference. Being circumcised provides no benefit being uncircumcised provides no benefit except ofr better sexual pleasure but none of health benefit. If you are circumcised and are mad you can't change that,if you are uncircumcised great no one is making you get cut. If you don't want you son cut then by all means don't get him cut,if you do go ahead. It's all about preference no need for a big debate over preference and opinions.

can we all agree that it is about preference. Being circumcised provides no benefit being uncircumcised provides no benefit except ofr better sexual pleasure but none of health benefit. If you are circumcised and are mad you can't change that,if you are uncircumcised great no one is making you get cut. If you don't want you son cut then by all means don't get him cut,if you do go ahead. It's all about preference no need for a big debate over preference and opinions.forgetwhatyahear

can we all agree that it is about preference. Being circumcised provides no benefit being uncircumcised provides no benefit except ofr better sexual pleasure but none of health benefit. If you are circumcised and are mad you can't change that,if you are uncircumcised great no one is making you get cut. If you don't want you son cut then by all means don't get him cut,if you do go ahead. It's all about preference no need for a big debate over preference and opinions.Toriko42

It's not about preference, it's about should circumcising newborns be allowed but it strayed.

And Net this doesn't deserve to locked, it's one of the few great debates we get to have in OT. People are bringing educated points here and it should stay

can we all agree that it is about preference. Being circumcised provides no benefit being uncircumcised provides no benefit except ofr better sexual pleasure but none of health benefit. If you are circumcised and are mad you can't change that,if you are uncircumcised great no one is making you get cut. If you don't want you son cut then by all means don't get him cut,if you do go ahead. It's all about preference no need for a big debate over preference and opinions.Toriko42

It's not about preference, it's about should circumcising newborns be allowed but it strayed.

And Net this doesn't deserve to locked, it's one of the few great debates we get to have in OT. People are bringing educated points here and it should stay

again preference. The parents preference for how they want their child's penis to look. still preference

[QUOTE="forgetwhatyahear"]can we all agree that it is about preference. Being circumcised provides no benefit being uncircumcised provides no benefit except ofr better sexual pleasure but none of health benefit. If you are circumcised and are mad you can't change that,if you are uncircumcised great no one is making you get cut. If you don't want you son cut then by all means don't get him cut,if you do go ahead. It's all about preference no need for a big debate over preference and opinions.zakkro

you have piqued my intrest for some reason

i know personally im glad my parents did it when i was little and i dont remeber the pain. an uncircumcised penis looks stupid Blackfriend8

Both look pretty stupid.

It looks better.

Or so I am told. I have only seen it cirsumsized.....cuz I've only seen mine.....

I dont see anything bad with it either, I've never had any problems....

It looks better.

Or so I am told. I have only seen it cirsumsized.....cuz I've only seen mine.....

I dont see anything bad with it either, I've never had any problems....

GTA_dude

I'm circumcised and fine it. It's part of my religion, so it gets done. It didn't hurt me and it's one less thing on my body to worry about. So cool it guys circumcision is what it is.

It's all good man, it's all good!

If not for religous purposes, it sums up to genital mutiliation the way I see it. :P

i know personally im glad my parents did it when i was little and i dont remeber the pain. an uncircumcised penis looks stupid Blackfriend8

Have you looked at a penis recently? They're aren't really appealing anyway you look at it.

No different from footbinding or lip plates or neck braces (if thats what they are called). It's just a weird practice that is quite plainly for money. But once again brainwashed Americans will force it on their children because they themselves all have it and are to insecure to see it as at all strange. Also the girl saying she would never have sex with a guy with a foreskin and claiming a perfect man would grant her every wish and cut part of his penis off to become more attractive to her. What the hell? Firstly that is insanely shallow. I do have physical standards for women but I would never ever say no to a women who I found physically attractive upon finding out she had one small feature I found unpleasant. Secondly, your perfect man would grant your every wish, even if it was something he really would not want to do? My perfect women would be independent and mentally strong, not some submissive slave. This whole thread is just a bunch of mindless brainwashed people arguing with weak facts and made up statistics. swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]No different from footbinding or lip plates or neck braces (if thats what they are called). It's just a weird practice that is quite plainly for money. But once again brainwashed Americans will force it on their children because they themselves all have it and are to insecure to see it as at all strange. Also the girl saying she would never have sex with a guy with a foreskin and claiming a perfect man would grant her every wish and cut part of his penis off to become more attractive to her. What the hell? Firstly that is insanely shallow. I do have physical standards for women but I would never ever say no to a women who I found physically attractive upon finding out she had one small feature I found unpleasant. Secondly, your perfect man would grant your every wish, even if it was something he really would not want to do? My perfect women would be independent and mentally strong, not some submissive slave. This whole thread is just a bunch of mindless brainwashed people arguing with weak facts and made up statistics. NetYankEagle

[QUOTE="NetYankEagle"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]No different from footbinding or lip plates or neck braces (if thats what they are called). It's just a weird practice that is quite plainly for money. But once again brainwashed Americans will force it on their children because they themselves all have it and are to insecure to see it as at all strange. Also the girl saying she would never have sex with a guy with a foreskin and claiming a perfect man would grant her every wish and cut part of his penis off to become more attractive to her. What the hell? Firstly that is insanely shallow. I do have physical standards for women but I would never ever say no to a women who I found physically attractive upon finding out she had one small feature I found unpleasant. Secondly, your perfect man would grant your every wish, even if it was something he really would not want to do? My perfect women would be independent and mentally strong, not some submissive slave. This whole thread is just a bunch of mindless brainwashed people arguing with weak facts and made up statistics. swizz-the-gamer