Men have no choice in pro-choice

A man is required for a woman to get pregnant, you know. If the man doesn't want to have any babies, then he could either wear a condom or not have sexual intercourse at all.

If a woman gets pregnant without the husband/boyfriend being involved is an entirely different issue. :|

If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?DarkPrinceXC

that would mean losing your manhood:|

He should have to pay.

However, I do believe he should have a say in whether a child is aborted or not. It's his DNA also. That is part of the abortion issue that bothers me, the father has no say in it.

Too bad so sad.

You have sex and she gets pregnant, you'd damn well better support her and this kid.

But when you want a kid, and she wants an abortion, thats when it really sucks.

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?NYiVtec

that would mean losing your manhood:|

Well then he should be responsible for what comes out of his manhood. :)

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?NYiVtec

that would mean losing your manhood:|

No, just a little incision in the scrotum. The male can keep his family jewels.

Yea he should have to pay..its his kid, his DNA, and somewhat his creation, and he obviously wanted it to be there. If he didn't and it was an accident, then it's his fault and there are consequences.BladeOfHeaven

[QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?DarkPrinceXC

that would mean losing your manhood:|

Well then he should be responsible for what comes out of his manhood. :)

or you know...just wear a condom >.>

but hey if your into that then by all means

Yes, absolutely. It could happen to anybody but in most cases it's about being irresponsible and in that case, those guys shouldn't get the opportunity to say "I didn't know she was pregnant until 9 months later" or "I wanted her to get an abortion" and simply run away from responsibility. There's also the fact that people can LIE, even in court.

If you're careful with who you get involved with then these situations probably won't happen anyway.

[QUOTE="BladeOfHeaven"]Yea he should have to pay..its his kid, his DNA, and somewhat his creation, and he obviously wanted it to be there. If he didn't and it was an accident, then it's his fault and there are consequences.peaceful_anger

Yes, he does, and that choice is to either keep it in his pants or not.

If he absolutely must do it, then he can use a condom.

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"][QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?BladeOfHeaven

that would mean losing your manhood:|

Well then he should be responsible for what comes out of his manhood. :)

or you know...just wear a condom >.>

but hey if your into that then by all means

Into what? I had a scare a few months back when I thought I had gotten my ex pregnant. Turns out after the DNA test that it was another guy. I was prepared to face the consequences for not wrappin before I went tappin. Moral of the story, if you don't want to have kids, either: Don't have sex, wrap it, cut it.

[QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?-Jiggles-

that would mean losing your manhood:|

No, just a little incision in the scrotum. The male can keep his family jewels.

but he can no longer utilize his family jewels:(

[QUOTE="BladeOfHeaven"][QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"][QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?DarkPrinceXC

that would mean losing your manhood:|

Well then he should be responsible for what comes out of his manhood. :)

or you know...just wear a condom >.>

but hey if your into that then by all means

Into what? I had a scare a few months back when I thought I had gotten my ex pregnant. Turns out after the DNA test that it was another guy. I was prepared to face the consequences for not wrappin before I went tappin. Moral of the story, if you don't want to have kids, either: Don't have sex, wrap it, cut it.

wait do people really cut their manhood :|
i'm confused now

[QUOTE="BladeOfHeaven"][QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"][QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?DarkPrinceXC

that would mean losing your manhood:|

Well then he should be responsible for what comes out of his manhood. :)

or you know...just wear a condom >.>

but hey if your into that then by all means

Into what? I had a scare a few months back when I thought I had gotten my ex pregnant. Turns out after the DNA test that it was another guy. I was prepared to face the consequences for not wrappin before I went tappin. Moral of the story, if you don't want to have kids, either: Don't have sex, wrap it, cut it.

or have her pop it

i mean the pill

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"][QUOTE="BladeOfHeaven"][QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"][QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?BladeOfHeaven

that would mean losing your manhood:|

Well then he should be responsible for what comes out of his manhood. :)

or you know...just wear a condom >.>

but hey if your into that then by all means

Into what? I had a scare a few months back when I thought I had gotten my ex pregnant. Turns out after the DNA test that it was another guy. I was prepared to face the consequences for not wrappin before I went tappin. Moral of the story, if you don't want to have kids, either: Don't have sex, wrap it, cut it.

wait do people really cut their manhood :|
i'm confused now

It's a procedure on the scrotum. You still keep all your parts. ;)

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?NYiVtec

that would mean losing your manhood:|

No, just a little incision in the scrotum. The male can keep his family jewels.

but he can no longer utilize his family jewels:(

But he doesn't want a child in the first place, so why does it matter? If he's so against having a child that he isn't willing to pay child support, even if it's biologically his, why should he care if he can utilize them or not?

for not wrappin before I went tappin. DarkPrinceXC

Wow, that really got me :lol:

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?NYiVtec

that would mean losing your manhood:|

No, just a little incision in the scrotum. The male can keep his family jewels.

but he can no longer utilize his family jewels:(

If he went through on the decision to defertilize himself, I am pretty sure he doesn't ever want to have kids. Ever.

Even if he did want kids, he could always have some sperm extracted afterwards.

[QUOTE="BladeOfHeaven"][QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"][QUOTE="BladeOfHeaven"][QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"][QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?DarkPrinceXC

that would mean losing your manhood:|

Well then he should be responsible for what comes out of his manhood. :)

or you know...just wear a condom >.>

but hey if your into that then by all means

Into what? I had a scare a few months back when I thought I had gotten my ex pregnant. Turns out after the DNA test that it was another guy. I was prepared to face the consequences for not wrappin before I went tappin. Moral of the story, if you don't want to have kids, either: Don't have sex, wrap it, cut it.

wait do people really cut their manhood :|
i'm confused now

It's a procedure on the scrotum. You still keep all your parts. ;)

oh ok :lol:

Now to the people who are pro-choice and are saying well he knew the consequences, didn't the woman know the consequences as well, yet she gets to choose whether to have an abortion or not? So if the woman knew the consequences, but still gets to choose, then why can't the man choose to not pay child support?peaceful_anger

They're not all doing it to screw the guy over.

Thats the choice of every man who wants to have sex. If a guy doesn't want children, then he shouldn't have the sex to begin with. Thats the choice guys make, because the guy isn't forced to have the sex, it was his decision. So he has to face the concequences.

And that is why we have protection, but it is still not a 100% garrentee that the girl wont get pregnate, but its still better then not having any. The guy still has to face the same possible concequence, and b willing to deal with it. Although vasectomies are 100% safe.

Gets a vesectimy (spelling i dont really care). Or use a contraceptive. He should have to pay if it does happen anyways. Also I am pro-life. So abortion FTL.chester706

[QUOTE="chester706"]Gets a vesectimy (spelling i dont really care). Or use a contraceptive. He should have to pay if it does happen anyways. Also I am pro-life. So abortion FTL.Matt-4542

[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"][QUOTE="BladeOfHeaven"]Yea he should have to pay..its his kid, his DNA, and somewhat his creation, and he obviously wanted it to be there. If he didn't and it was an accident, then it's his fault and there are consequences.-Jiggles-

Yes, he does, and that choice is to either keep it in his pants or not.

If he absolutely must do it, then he can use a condom.

I have a question. Is there a double standard when it comes to becoming a parent?

If a man lets a woman know from the beginning of a relationship that he doesn't want children, but she becomes pregnant and keeps the child, should he have to pay child support and be responsible for that child?

The reason I'm asking this is because a woman has a choice whether to have the baby or not, but a man has no choice in the matter. He can't make her have an abortion or make her carry the baby full term. So if the man doesn't have a vote on whether the baby lives or dies, should he be forced to be financiall responsible for the child?peaceful_anger

If the mother is specifically seeking assistance on this, then yes. By not providing assistance to the child he brought into the world, he is harming that child. It's unfortunate this in some cases this can ruin a man's life if it means he has to drop out of university in order to work to pay for the child. But what's worse, someone who chose to have sex and take the chance have his life ruined, or some child who didn't make that choice have his life ruined? It's not going to be fair either way, but in this case, the rights of the child, whose fault it isn't, should be a higher priority.

That said, I do find it refreshing to hear arguments like these pointed out, if only because points like these might help to challenge politically-correct labels like "anti-choice" being slapped on anti-abortioinists (I don't seem to hear the "anti-cure" label slapped on anti-ESCR people near as much) without taking into account that it's not like the fetus "chooses" whether it's aborted or not. The relevant point should be about whether or not the fetus has a consciousness. After all, not being given that isn't the same as having it taken away, and since consciousness doesn't start until sometime in the 3rd trimester, why would advocates of legal abortion want to avoid that more meaningful issue?

[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]Now to the people who are pro-choice and are saying well he knew the consequences, didn't the woman know the consequences as well, yet she gets to choose whether to have an abortion or not? So if the woman knew the consequences, but still gets to choose, then why can't the man choose to not pay child support?Hungry_bunny

They're not all doing it to screw the guy over.

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]for not wrappin before I went tappin. Matt-4542

Wow, that really got me :lol:

Well I'm glad I'm here to make you laugh!:evil:

[QUOTE="NYiVtec"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="NYiVtec"]

[QUOTE="DarkPrinceXC"]If he doesn't want children, why doesn't he get "fixed"?-Jiggles-

that would mean losing your manhood:|

No, just a little incision in the scrotum. The male can keep his family jewels.

but he can no longer utilize his family jewels:(

If he went through on the decision to defertilize himself, I am pretty sure he doesn't ever want to have kids. Ever.

Even if he did want kids, he could always have some sperm extracted afterwards.

well he was suggesting it to the op. it just wouldnt feel the same if you know what i mean

Oh I agree with you.

When I look at it from the child's point of view, of course the man should be responsible, however, I understand how some men would feel it's not fair that they have no choice in the matter.

I'm pro-life and adopted by the way and personally believe the man should pay. Wanted to get that out there before people thought I was uncaring piece of ****. peaceful_anger

But this is one of those things where the right choice feels kinda obvious (at least to me)... even though it really sucks for some of the people involved.

Now to the people who are pro-choice and are saying well he knew the consequences, didn't the woman know the consequences as well, yet she gets to choose whether to have an abortion or not? So if the woman knew the consequences, but still gets to choose, then why can't the man choose to not pay child support?peaceful_anger

Because with abortion, there would be no child to support yet with an already-born fetus there would be a child lacking paternal support. The former is, unless you count third-trimester abortions, (which from what I've heard are done more so for medical reasons like problems with the fetus than for reasons of avoiding having a child) harming a fetus who likely lacks consciousness or feelings and the former is harming a child who presumably has both.

Thats the choice of every man who wants to have sex. If a guy doesn't want children, then he shouldn't have the sex to begin with. Thats the choice guys make, because the guy isn't forced to have the sex, it was his decision. So he has to face the concequences.

And that is why we have protection, but it is still not a 100% garrentee that the girl wont get pregnate, but its still better then not having any. The guy still has to face the same possible concequence, and b willing to deal with it. Although vasectomies are 100% safe.

GTA_dude

Actually, that might not necessarily always be the case. Males can be raped by females as well.

As for vasectomies...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasectomy#Complications

That and how I remember reading in some newspaper a story about someone who impregnated his partner after even after having a vasectomy.

[QUOTE="Hungry_bunny"]

[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]Now to the people who are pro-choice and are saying well he knew the consequences, didn't the woman know the consequences as well, yet she gets to choose whether to have an abortion or not? So if the woman knew the consequences, but still gets to choose, then why can't the man choose to not pay child support?peaceful_anger

They're not all doing it to screw the guy over.

I really wish you would've made that clearer at first. The way you worded the initial post I got the impression that you were suggesting otherwise. But thanks for eventually clarifying that anyway...

[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"][QUOTE="Hungry_bunny"]

[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]Now to the people who are pro-choice and are saying well he knew the consequences, didn't the woman know the consequences as well, yet she gets to choose whether to have an abortion or not? So if the woman knew the consequences, but still gets to choose, then why can't the man choose to not pay child support?matthayter700

They're not all doing it to screw the guy over.

I really wish you would've made that clearer at first. The way you worded the initial post I got the impression that you were suggesting otherwise. But thanks for eventually clarifying that anyway...

I have a question. Is there a double standard when it comes to becoming a parent?

If a man lets a woman know from the beginning of a relationship that he doesn't want children, but she becomes pregnant and keeps the child, should he have to pay child support and be responsible for that child?

The reason I'm asking this is because a woman has a choice whether to have the baby or not, but a man has no choice in the matter. He can't make her have an abortion or make her carry the baby full term. So if the man doesn't have a vote on whether the baby lives or dies, should he be forced to be financiall responsible for the child? peaceful_anger

If they both had sex yes it takes two to make a baby.

If the dad didnt want a child and the mother adopt one no he shouldn't have.

He should have 50% say in it. just like her.

I believe that the decision to have the child is made when they chose to have sex or not - not when the woman gets pregnant. The reason why the woman has more say in the abortion matter is because she is the one who has to carry the thing for 9 months and then pop it out.

Too bad so sad.

You have sex and she gets pregnant, you'd damn well better support her and this kid.

But when you want a kid, and she wants an abortion, thats when it really sucks.

vidplayer8

Why, exactly? You sympathize with guys who want to have children and whose partners do not, yet not with guys who in some cases arguably have their lives ruined when forced to pay child support for children that were they in their partner's position would have aborted? For the latter, yes, someone chose to have sex, and the consequences of sex are well known... in the developed world at least anyway. But for the former, if someone wanted a woman who wouldn't want an abortion, shouldn't he know more about her (as in, in terms of what she believes when it comes to things like pregnancy and having children) before dating her? The consequences point can arguably go both ways. In any case, how can you be so sure which situation is worse?

I believe that the decision to have the child is made when they chose to have sex or not - not when the woman gets pregnant. The reason why the woman has more say in the abortion matter is because she is the one who has to carry the thing for 9 months and then pop it out.

Sajedene

Thats a double standard and not fair for guys thats the problem.