Men have no choice in pro-choice

Abortion sounds so me as nothing but laziness, irresponsibility for one's actions, and a symptom to the ultimate problem - sexual promiscuity. If a person has sex, you should know the possible outcomes by now. Accept those possible outcomes if you are going to get your freak on. If you are not ready to be a parent, do not have sex.

I find it quite odd that a person can go to jail and be looked down upon for killing an animal but many do not find it wrong to kill a child. No, it's not a child, it's an inconvenience. What the heck is wrong with this picture? Why can't people step up and take responsibility.

mindstorm

Because we don't all agree with you. I certainly don't, I think women deserve a choice in abortion.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Abortion sounds so me as nothing but laziness, irresponsibility for one's actions, and a symptom to the ultimate problem - sexual promiscuity. If a person has sex, you should know the possible outcomes by now. Accept those possible outcomes if you are going to get your freak on. If you are not ready to be a parent, do not have sex.

I find it quite odd that a person can go to jail and be looked down upon for killing an animal but many do not find it wrong to kill a child. No, it's not a child, it's an inconvenience. What the heck is wrong with this picture? Why can't people step up and take responsibility.

tofu-lion91

Because we don't all agree with you. I certainly don't, I think women deserve a choice in abortion.

But the human dying doesn't?

Seems fair.

Its not a human. :()Bazfrag

Yes it is.

Which means by my logic its O.K to abort Sarah Palin...Bazfrag

Bazing!

But the human dying doesn't?

Seems fair.

Chutebox

You mean potential human? Anyway I'm not going to go in depth about this, whether or not a foetus is a human life, and worth a human life, is a matter of opinion. Therefore I'm pro-choice meaning people who believe the foetus is a human can keep it, and those who don't believe can abort it. Pro-choice people are not happy about killing babies or whatever you want to define it as, they stand for choice. Everyone deserves a right to decide.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

But the human dying doesn't?

Seems fair.

tofu-lion91

You mean potential human? Anyway I'm not going to go in depth about this, whether or not a foetus is a human life, and worth a human life, is a matter of opinion. Therefore I'm pro-choice meaning people who believe the foetus is a human can keep it, and those who don't believe can abort it. Pro-choice people are not happy about killing babies or whatever you want to define it as, they stand for choice. Everyone deserves a right to decide.

So a "fetus" with a brain, lungs, bones, muscles, organs etc etc isn't to be considered human?

Abortion just sickens me and I can never see how people justify it.

Lol sorry Chute, i should'nt throw flamebait around just to make a lame joke. Shame on me.Bazfrag

Although I like Palin that joke was funny!

He should have to pay.

However, I do believe he should have a say in whether a child is aborted or not. It's his DNA also. That is part of the abortion issue that bothers me, the father has no say in it.

cametall

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

But the human dying doesn't?

Seems fair.

Chutebox

You mean potential human? Anyway I'm not going to go in depth about this, whether or not a foetus is a human life, and worth a human life, is a matter of opinion. Therefore I'm pro-choice meaning people who believe the foetus is a human can keep it, and those who don't believe can abort it. Pro-choice people are not happy about killing babies or whatever you want to define it as, they stand for choice. Everyone deserves a right to decide.

So a "fetus" with a brain, lungs, bones, muscles, organs etc etc isn't to be considered human?

Abortion just sickens me and I can never see how people justify it.

Do you not get what I'm trying to say? It's all about opinion! So don't try and justify yours when I'm not going to justify mine. We'll never agree so leave it. What I'm trying to say is I think people should have a choice. If abortion was objective then there'd be no need to argue - it's either be pro-life or pro-choice end of. One right, one wrong. But defining when human life begins is a matter which is subject to opinion. Therefore I'm stand for choice, I won't force anyone to do anything. I believe people can do what they believe is best for them and their situation.

I'm not giving opinions, I'm giving facts.

Babies develop everything I said within 3-4 weeks, if not before if I remember correctly.

Good night, I'm going to bed.

[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]I have a question. Is there a double standard when it comes to becoming a parent?

If a man lets a woman know from the beginning of a relationship that he doesn't want children, but she becomes pregnant and keeps the child, should he have to pay child support and be responsible for that child?

The reason I'm asking this is because a woman has a choice whether to have the baby or not, but a man has no choice in the matter. He can't make her have an abortion or make her carry the baby full term. So if the man doesn't have a vote on whether the baby lives or dies, should he be forced to be financiall responsible for the child?


EDIT: This might help explain what I'm trying to say a little better.

When the woman decides to have the child, she made a decision to physically and financially committ herself to that child. She got to make a choice on whether she wanted to committ the rest of her life to the care of this child. The law makes the man committ himself financially for the next 21 years. He has no choice.

He doesn't get to choose whether the baby lives or dies, and if she keeps the baby, he doesn't get to choose whether or not he wants to pay child support. If it takes TWO to make a baby, then why does only ONE have the right to choose to have the child and to committ to the caring for the child?

Morally I understand, but when you get down to rights, it seems the man has none. [/QUOTE

straight up imv about this question is if i told a female i dont want kids and somehow she is knocked up first thing id do is get a feternity test done. if the baby is not mine i personally believe the man has a choice if he should contiue a relationship with that woman or not. im a guy and if i was the father of that child id definatley take care of it. if not my kid i may because if i truley cared about the chick than yes id make sure the kid is being finacial raised

[QUOTE="fbigent34"][QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="peaceful_anger"][QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="fbigent34"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

I believe that the decision to have the child is made when they chose to have sex or not - not when the woman gets pregnant. The reason why the woman has more say in the abortion matter is because she is the one who has to carry the thing for 9 months and then pop it out.

Sajedene

Thats a double standard and not fair for guys thats the problem.

Howv is it a double standard? They both have sex, but she has to carry it for 9 months and pop it out. A guy has to pay child support if she chooses to raise that child -- all he has to do is cough up some money.

Where is the double standard there?

If you ask me -- you all got the easy end of the stick here. All you got to do is put in some money for the next 21 years. The woman who CHOOSES to keep the child is obligated to be a MOTHER to that child -- not just an ATM machine.

The reason why the mother has more weight in this decision again comes down to the FACT that she has to be the one to carry it and give birth to it -- if she keeps it (again stressing that that is the only time a man has to pay child support) RAISE it, nurture it, care for it, educate it, etc etc etc etc.

Seriously, somene please explain to me how to make it work in a scenario where a man wants to keep the child but the woman doesnt. HOW can one make that work? If you can explain it to me - then I will accept the existance of a double standard.

you not even listing whats the point? your using the women body agurement. and the fact man cant have babies is a double standard when it TAKES TWO TO MAKE A BABY Man And Female.

BUT it ONLY TAKES ONE TO CARRY AND GIVE BIRTH TO IT. Not by choice either. Which is the whole point I'm trying to make. A man can choose to keep the baby the day he can choose to carry it for 9 months and give birth to it. Women didnt choose this scenario - so it can not be a double standard. Women don't choose to be the one to carry that child.

without the male you wouldnt have a baby so therefor you couldnt choice as it wouldnt of matter since your not getting pregant.

Jus the fact that it takes two to have a baby they both should have a decison since its there child. not the mothers there both parents father/mother.

stop using the body agurement.

Yes he should have to pay child support. He helped make the baby, he can help take care of it. If he didn't want a baby, then he shouldn't have been having unprotected sex.omfg_its_dally

You do know that women can protect themselfs are well? and shouldnt like to there husban about being on a pill or anything. it can work this way as well.

The fact of the matter is both can be protected but one can lie AND GET AWAY WITH IT. the other one has to live and pay child support beacuse he was trick.

My firend thought his gf was on the pill guess what she lied and nowt here having a baby boy. He still with her there living togather in aptarment.

[QUOTE="cametall"]

He should have to pay.

However, I do believe he should have a say in whether a child is aborted or not. It's his DNA also. That is part of the abortion issue that bothers me, the father has no say in it.

jekyll

Well, that's not what I meant. I meant he should pay no matter what, whether he wants to or not.

I just think he should have a say in whether it's aborted, because it is his child too. Regardless of who is carrying the child for 9 months, I think men should be able to argue that it is their DNA also and have some sense of ownership of the fetus. If the woman didn't want to get pregnant she shouldn't have had sex, or used contraception. Same goes for the man.

Having an abortion because you don't want to take responsibility for your mistake is disgusting. There is always the choice of adoption too. It should only be used in extreme cases, not because some man and woman made a stupid mistake.

If both the man and women agree to have sex without protection and a baby is the result, why should they still have a choice whether the fetus lives or not?

I've always wondered about that.

If both the man and women agree to have sex without protection and a baby is the result, why should they still have a choice whether the fetus lives or not?

I've always wondered about that.

4StringSamurai

[QUOTE="4StringSamurai"]

If both the man and women agree to have sex without protection and a baby is the result, why should they still have a choice whether the fetus lives or not?

I've always wondered about that.

Greatgone12

'if both the man and women agree to have sex without protection'

read that again, please.

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="4StringSamurai"]

If both the man and women agree to have sex without protection and a baby is the result, why should they still have a choice whether the fetus lives or not?

I've always wondered about that.

4StringSamurai

'if both the man and women agree to have sex without protection'

read that again, please.

[QUOTE="4StringSamurai"]

If both the man and women agree to have sex without protection and a baby is the result, why should they still have a choice whether the fetus lives or not?

I've always wondered about that.

Greatgone12

more people are unprotected than protected.... my ex gf told me she wanted to have a baby with me i told her no because how am i gona support a kid if i dont have a JOB? she gave me an ultimatum by saying if i dont get her pregnant shes gona dump me... i picked up my stuff and left. lets be real here the main issue with abortion is because now a days kids who are 13 -17 are having sex with NO protection and they dont even understand the serious nature of sex. im 23 and when i was in high school sex education only discussed reproduction i have never seen a class on intimasy or diseases. its the parents responsibilty to tell there kids the real truth about sex. the problam is the more you tell a kid wait till marrige its gona make them wanna do it more.

my ex gf told me she wanted to have a baby with me i told her no because how am i gona support a kid if i dont have a JOB? she gave me an ultimatum by saying if i dont get her pregnant shes gona dump me... i picked up my stuff and left.Tazzmission187

[QUOTE="4StringSamurai"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="4StringSamurai"]

If both the man and women agree to have sex without protection and a baby is the result, why should they still have a choice whether the fetus lives or not?

I've always wondered about that.

Greatgone12

'if both the man and women agree to have sex without protection'

read that again, please.

So was it just a misunderstanding on your part? if you feel it wasn't maybe you should read it again.

So was it just a misunderstanding on your part? if you feel it wasn't maybe you should read it again.

4StringSamurai

[QUOTE="Tazzmission187"]my ex gf told me she wanted to have a baby with me i told her no because how am i gona support a kid if i dont have a JOB? she gave me an ultimatum by saying if i dont get her pregnant shes gona dump me... i picked up my stuff and left.Jandurin

i never had a real father and the thing is in my futre when i have a career and a good woman at my side a maybe married than yea im gona want to have a kid of my own. i still dont have a job now and if i cant support myself now how would i even pull off suporting a kid?

That's just one of the things you have to look out for as a man. In modern civilized society, men have no choices in terms of abortion, or having babies.

All you can do is stay safe and wrapped up. And hope to god the thing doesn't split. I hate to sound so drastic, but it's the truth. For better or worse.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Tazzmission187"]my ex gf told me she wanted to have a baby with me i told her no because how am i gona support a kid if i dont have a JOB? she gave me an ultimatum by saying if i dont get her pregnant shes gona dump me... i picked up my stuff and left.Tazzmission187

i never had a real father and the thing is in my futre when i have a career and a good woman at my side a maybe married than yea im gona want to have a kid of my own. i still dont have a job now and if i cant support myself now how would i even pull off suporting a kid?

[QUOTE="4StringSamurai"]

So was it just a misunderstanding on your part? if you feel it wasn't maybe you should read it again.

Jandurin

In my opinion yes.

Just for the record im not talking about outlawing abortion just people taking responsiblity for their actions.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="4StringSamurai"]

So was it just a misunderstanding on your part? if you feel it wasn't maybe you should read it again.

4StringSamurai

In my opinion yes.

Just for the record im not talking about outlawing abortion just people taking responsiblity for their actions.

[QUOTE="Tazzmission187"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Tazzmission187"]my ex gf told me she wanted to have a baby with me i told her no because how am i gona support a kid if i dont have a JOB? she gave me an ultimatum by saying if i dont get her pregnant shes gona dump me... i picked up my stuff and left.Jandurin

i wouldnt lie man i have no reason to lie. as for the condom breaking question do i approve of abortion if some how a condom breaks? no because even on the box of rubbers it states 99.9% full proof against tears and hiv... theres still a 1% chance. i think what parents need to do is really tell kids about sex.. another thing is i feel that schools need to upgrade sex edcuation to show the good the bad and the ugly of it. as for abortion well i know its a difficult topic but id rather see it stay legal because banned or not its still gona be there.

i never had a real father and the thing is in my futre when i have a career and a good woman at my side a maybe married than yea im gona want to have a kid of my own. i still dont have a job now and if i cant support myself now how would i even pull off suporting a kid?

i wouldnt lie man i have no reason to lie. as for the condom breaking question do i approve of abortion if some how a condom breaks? no because even on the box of rubbers it states 99.9% full proof against tears and hiv... theres still a 1% chance. i think what parents need to do is really tell kids about sex.. another thing is i feel that schools need to upgrade sex edcuation to show the good the bad and the ugly of it. as for abortion well i know its a difficult topic but id rather see it stay legal because banned or not its still gona be there.

Tazzmission187

[QUOTE="Tazzmission187"]

i wouldnt lie man i have no reason to lie. as for the condom breaking question do i approve of abortion if some how a condom breaks? no because even on the box of rubbers it states 99.9% full proof against tears and hiv... theres still a 1% chance. i think what parents need to do is really tell kids about sex.. another thing is i feel that schools need to upgrade sex edcuation to show the good the bad and the ugly of it. as for abortion well i know its a difficult topic but id rather see it stay legal because banned or not its still gona be there.

Jandurin

I thought it was 1%. There's one fool proof method of not getting impregnate anyone though, snipp snipp

[QUOTE="Tazzmission187"]

i wouldnt lie man i have no reason to lie. as for the condom breaking question do i approve of abortion if some how a condom breaks? no because even on the box of rubbers it states 99.9% full proof against tears and hiv... theres still a 1% chance. i think what parents need to do is really tell kids about sex.. another thing is i feel that schools need to upgrade sex edcuation to show the good the bad and the ugly of it. as for abortion well i know its a difficult topic but id rather see it stay legal because banned or not its still gona be there.

Jandurin

i mean seriously if people cant have a right to there own body whats next?

im not attacking god when i say this and i mean no offence to anyone who is religious but the way this country is going right now is like a cult.. im a christian and i quit my church because my beliefs are diffrent in certain areas.. now if you look at most republicans and democrats you see alot of jumping on the bandwagon for sticking up for sarah palin. i believe palin has good morals more power to her but to constatly use god in a speech and flaunt her downsyndrome daughter is really trying to con religious believers and people who fight for mentaly challenged. alot of religous people believe stem cell research comes from abortions thats not necesarily true. i just feeel that the united states my home country is really being no diffrent from al-queda when it comes to religioun NOT EXTREAMISM

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Tazzmission187"]

i wouldnt lie man i have no reason to lie. as for the condom breaking question do i approve of abortion if some how a condom breaks? no because even on the box of rubbers it states 99.9% full proof against tears and hiv... theres still a 1% chance. i think what parents need to do is really tell kids about sex.. another thing is i feel that schools need to upgrade sex edcuation to show the good the bad and the ugly of it. as for abortion well i know its a difficult topic but id rather see it stay legal because banned or not its still gona be there.

Tazzmission187

i mean seriously if people cant have a right to there own body whats next?

The fetus is arguably a separate body... that doesn't belong to the woman.

I'm pro-choice, but the moment a way is discovered to remove the fetus from the would-be-mother (if she is unwilling to bear her child) without killing it and without endangering the life of the mother, I would see no reason why someone would even consider an abortion.

I thought it was 1%. There's one fool proof method of not getting impregnate anyone though, snipp snipp

Dark-Sithious

I think abortion should be illegal anyways.-Austin-

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="fbigent34"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

If you ask me -- you all got the easy end of the stick here. All you got to do is put in some money for the next 21 years. The woman who CHOOSES to keep the child is obligated to be a MOTHER to that child -- not just an ATM machine.

The reason why the mother has more weight in this decision again comes down to the FACT that she has to be the one to carry it and give birth to it -- if she keeps it (again stressing that that is the only time a man has to pay child support) RAISE it, nurture it, care for it, educate it, etc etc etc etc.

Seriously, somene please explain to me how to make it work in a scenario where a man wants to keep the child but the woman doesnt. HOW can one make that work? If you can explain it to me - then I will accept the existance of a double standard.

fbigent34

you not even listing whats the point? your using the women body agurement. and the fact man cant have babies is a double standard when it TAKES TWO TO MAKE A BABY Man And Female.

BUT it ONLY TAKES ONE TO CARRY AND GIVE BIRTH TO IT. Not by choice either. Which is the whole point I'm trying to make. A man can choose to keep the baby the day he can choose to carry it for 9 months and give birth to it. Women didnt choose this scenario - so it can not be a double standard. Women don't choose to be the one to carry that child.

without the male you wouldnt have a baby so therefor you couldnt choice as it wouldnt of matter since your not getting pregant.

Jus the fact that it takes two to have a baby they both should have a decison since its there child. not the mothers there both parents father/mother.

stop using the body agurement.

I will stop using it the day the man has the option to carry the baby and give birth to it.

Here is the jist: If a man and a woman choose to have sex they accept the consequence of having a baby - whether that happens or not. That is the choice they both make.

So if a woman gets pregnant, they've already both established that they knew this could happen. BUT because it is the woman who has to carry the baby and her "burden" alone - she gets to decide whether she has to do this or not. Out of courtesy she can ask for the man's opinion and say on the matter - but the bottom line is that she has to be the one to carry it - so she gets the say if she gets to carry it or not.

The reason why you do not want to use the body argument is because there is no arguing out of it. It is the intention of nature for a woman to carry that child. But the decision to HAVE that child or not is not made during the the existence of pregnancy but during the consent of sex.

[QUOTE="Dark-Sithious"]

I thought it was 1%. There's one fool proof method of not getting impregnate anyone though, snipp snipp

Jandurin

:P

wow I just noticed how horrible my grammer is in that post.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Dark-Sithious"]

I thought it was 1%. There's one fool proof method of not getting impregnate anyone though, snipp snipp

Dark-Sithious

:P

wow I just noticed how horrible my grammer is in that post.

They are choosing to have a baby when they have sex.EMOEVOLUTION