MJ was and still is the greatest performer/entertainer of all time

1. I didn't say MJ invented pop videos. He invented the MODERN pop video. Before MJ, people were pretty much just in front of cameras with light and stuff making videos. The style of pop videos you see TODAY(not just a performer singing in front of a camera) came from MJ.

2. Videos are a visual medium. That means that people want to WATCH and listen to them. If you don't think dancing is an important part of a visual medium, I don't know what to tell you.

3. His heyday isn't his entire life? MJ was born in 1958. The first major distributed album of him with his brothers was released when he was 11(1969). That was a major, multi platinum success. From that moment, MJ released multiple albums EVERY DECADE he was living that went multi platinum.

4.Dude, you are so owned about the Osmonds being first. The Osmonds were a band trying to make the big time and were thus performing first. Their music was good but didn't have nationwide appeal. When they signed to a major label, they modeled their music and performances after the Jacksons, with Donnie changing his style to mimic MJ. They weren't on the national scene until AFTER the Jackson 5 were a big success. This is a fact.

5. I never said MJ was the first teen idol. I said the WORD teen idol was invented specifically for MJ. This is a fact.

6. Those albums I listed aren't there to talk about popularity. They are listed to speak to his relevance. You said his RELEVANCE(not popularity) ended after the 80s. Those multi platinum albums listed disprove this.

Are we done?

sayyy-gaa

1. Still wrong. MJ struggled to be played on MTV while many bands had videos in heavy rotation. They weren't all in front of cameras with light and stuff.

2. First this was about concerts. Now it's about videos? If you don't know the difference...I don't know what to tell you. But the initial point still stands. Acts that are lacking in the music aspect use the props to hide that fact. And judging by how vehemently you defend MJ for this....it definitely works well.

3. I see no certification for that album.

4. That's not true either. Starting in the 50s teen idols were marketed specifically.

5. National scene? The Osmonds were on network TV in the early 60s. Not late 60s like the Jacksons.

6. And MJ ceased to be relevant. His career was a side not to the mess he'd made of his personal life. He only put out a few albums in the last few decades and there was a major drop off of sales for the last album.

[QUOTE="sayyy-gaa"]

1. I didn't say MJ invented pop videos. He invented the MODERN pop video. Before MJ, people were pretty much just in front of cameras with light and stuff making videos. The style of pop videos you see TODAY(not just a performer singing in front of a camera) came from MJ.

2. Videos are a visual medium. That means that people want to WATCH and listen to them. If you don't think dancing is an important part of a visual medium, I don't know what to tell you.

3. His heyday isn't his entire life? MJ was born in 1958. The first major distributed album of him with his brothers was released when he was 11(1969). That was a major, multi platinum success. From that moment, MJ released multiple albums EVERY DECADE he was living that went multi platinum.

4.Dude, you are so owned about the Osmonds being first. The Osmonds were a band trying to make the big time and were thus performing first. Their music was good but didn't have nationwide appeal. When they signed to a major label, they modeled their music and performances after the Jacksons, with Donnie changing his style to mimic MJ. They weren't on the national scene until AFTER the Jackson 5 were a big success. This is a fact.

5. I never said MJ was the first teen idol. I said the WORD teen idol was invented specifically for MJ. This is a fact.

6. Those albums I listed aren't there to talk about popularity. They are listed to speak to his relevance. You said his RELEVANCE(not popularity) ended after the 80s. Those multi platinum albums listed disprove this.

Are we done?

LJS9502_basic

1. Still wrong. MJ struggled to be played on MTV while many bands had videos in heavy rotation. They weren't all in front of cameras with light and stuff.

2. First this was about concerts. Now it's about videos? If you don't know the difference...I don't know what to tell you. But the initial point still stands. Acts that are lacking in the music aspect use the props to hide that fact. And judging by how vehemently you defend MJ for this....it definitely works well.

3. I see no certification for that album.

4. That's not true either. Starting in the 50s teen idols were marketed specifically.

5. National scene? The Osmonds were on network TV in the early 60s. Not late 60s like the Jacksons.

6. And MJ ceased to be relevant. His career was a side not to the mess he'd made of his personal life. He only put out a few albums in the last few decades and there was a major drop off of sales for the last album.

1. Early MTV was by design strictly "White Boy Rock" They simply didn't play or feature black artists. It took a threatening of legal action by CBS to get MTV to even air "Billie Jean" The Video proved so popular that MTV agreed to co-produce Thriller which went on to becoming the greatest video in music history and MTV's greatest ratings success. So it was Micheal Jackson's music and influence that changed the entire shape of MTV's programming. Sorry LJ you are wrong.

Sources for my point.

MTV and Black Music: A RockyHistory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson%27s_Thriller Quotes from the article...."Voted as the most influential pop music video of all time,Thriller proved to have a profound effect on popular culture, and was named "a watershed moment for the [music] industry" for its unprecedented merging of filmmaking and music. " "Guinness World Records listed it in 2006 as the "most successful music video", selling over 9 million units. In 2009, the video was inducted into the National Film Registry of the Library of Congress, the first music video to ever receive this honor, for being ?culturally, historically or aesthetically? significant.[6]"

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id127.htm

2. This topic is about Michael Jackson being the greatest performer of all time. That includes all aspects of media that Michael Jackson was involved in. Video's, Concerts, and albums.

3. Look harder LJ. Went number 1 Febuary 14 of 1970 5 million copies sold worldwide. Source http://www.jackson5abc.com/albums/diana-ross-presents-the-jackson-5

4. A broken clock is right twice a day.

5. The Osmonds did not have the commercial or critical success of the Jackson 5. Let alone Michael Jackson himself. Who came first is irrelevent.

6. Dead wrong again LJ. You're not doing too well here. Michael Jackson never had or never will cease to be relevent. He slowed down later in his career due to age and health, not to mention his controversy. The fact that the controversy was so widely and tenaciously covered by the media is evidence to his relevency. Not to mention the comeback tour which had already been sold out worldwide that he was preparing when he died speaks volumes to the amount of fans that had and still has. Sources Jackson changed course of music, society http://voices.yahoo.com/the-musical-importance-michael-jackson-3750186.html?cat=2 http://rockhall.com/inductees/michael-jackson/

I agree. No one will ever match his dance moves.

Lol people are actually trying to debate this? The ignorance..... Michael Jackson is and will always be the king of enterainment! The guy is absolutely amazing and things he had to put up with in life were absolutely disgraceful considering the effort he put in to make the world a better place. Anyone who trys to refute the claim that he is the greatest enterainer of all time is wrong...simple as. It is obvious looking at the facts and figures, even the most biased person has to admit no single person comes close. Anyone who doubts this mans musical talent go look up some acapellas of MJ, his voice is incredible. The range...the power...the emotion is on another level to the vast majority of singers, only the likes of Freddie Mercury are his rivals.

Add together his untouchable dancing (he has NO rivals in this regard), his choreography, his amazing live shows and music videos (even to this day no one comes close), his creativity and innovativeness, his deep lyrics and compositions, and his humbleness and incredible charity (for example he donated his ENTIRE earnings for his Victory Tour to charity) and really no one comes close. I personally had tickets to his shows in London and was beyond devastated when he died, the speed that they sold out is another indicator of his greatest. Who could emulate that? Heck even some of his unreleased material is better than the vast majority of music nowadays. Sunset driver to name just one! King Of Music no doubt!

there will never be another

Lol people are actually trying to debate this? The ignorance..... Michael Jackson is and will always be the king of enterainment! The guy is absolutely amazing and things he had to put up with in life were absolutely disgraceful considering the effort he put in to make the world a better place. Anyone who trys to refute the claim that he is the greatest enterainer of all time is wrong...simple as. It is obvious looking at the facts and figures, even the most biased person has to admit no single person comes close. Anyone who doubts this mans musical talent go look up some acapellas of MJ, his voice is incredible. The range...the power...the emotion is on another level to the vast majority of singers, only the likes of Freddie Mercury are his rivals.

Add together his untouchable dancing (he has NO rivals in this regard), his choreography, his amazing live shows and music videos (even to this day no one comes close), his creativity and innovativeness, his deep lyrics and compositions, and his humbleness and incredible charity (for example he donated his ENTIRE earnings for his Victory Tour to charity) and really no one comes close. I personally had tickets to his shows in London and was beyond devastated when he died, the speed that they sold out is another indicator of his greatest. Who could emulate that? Heck even some of his unreleased material is better than the vast majority of music nowadays. Sunset driver to name just one! King Of Music no doubt!

dom2000

[QUOTE="dom2000"]

Lol people are actually trying to debate this? The ignorance..... Michael Jackson is and will always be the king of enterainment! The guy is absolutely amazing and things he had to put up with in life were absolutely disgraceful considering the effort he put in to make the world a better place. Anyone who trys to refute the claim that he is the greatest enterainer of all time is wrong...simple as. It is obvious looking at the facts and figures, even the most biased person has to admit no single person comes close. Anyone who doubts this mans musical talent go look up some acapellas of MJ, his voice is incredible. The range...the power...the emotion is on another level to the vast majority of singers, only the likes of Freddie Mercury are his rivals.

Add together his untouchable dancing (he has NO rivals in this regard), his choreography, his amazing live shows and music videos (even to this day no one comes close), his creativity and innovativeness, his deep lyrics and compositions, and his humbleness and incredible charity (for example he donated his ENTIRE earnings for his Victory Tour to charity) and really no one comes close. I personally had tickets to his shows in London and was beyond devastated when he died, the speed that they sold out is another indicator of his greatest. Who could emulate that? Heck even some of his unreleased material is better than the vast majority of music nowadays. Sunset driver to name just one! King Of Music no doubt!

Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="sayyy-gaa"]

1. I didn't say MJ invented pop videos. He invented the MODERN pop video. Before MJ, people were pretty much just in front of cameras with light and stuff making videos. The style of pop videos you see TODAY(not just a performer singing in front of a camera) came from MJ.

2. Videos are a visual medium. That means that people want to WATCH and listen to them. If you don't think dancing is an important part of a visual medium, I don't know what to tell you.

3. His heyday isn't his entire life? MJ was born in 1958. The first major distributed album of him with his brothers was released when he was 11(1969). That was a major, multi platinum success. From that moment, MJ released multiple albums EVERY DECADE he was living that went multi platinum.

4.Dude, you are so owned about the Osmonds being first. The Osmonds were a band trying to make the big time and were thus performing first. Their music was good but didn't have nationwide appeal. When they signed to a major label, they modeled their music and performances after the Jacksons, with Donnie changing his style to mimic MJ. They weren't on the national scene until AFTER the Jackson 5 were a big success. This is a fact.

5. I never said MJ was the first teen idol. I said the WORD teen idol was invented specifically for MJ. This is a fact.

6. Those albums I listed aren't there to talk about popularity. They are listed to speak to his relevance. You said his RELEVANCE(not popularity) ended after the 80s. Those multi platinum albums listed disprove this.

Are we done?

LJS9502_basic

1. Still wrong. MJ struggled to be played on MTV while many bands had videos in heavy rotation. They weren't all in front of cameras with light and stuff.

2. First this was about concerts. Now it's about videos? If you don't know the difference...I don't know what to tell you. But the initial point still stands. Acts that are lacking in the music aspect use the props to hide that fact. And judging by how vehemently you defend MJ for this....it definitely works well.

3. I see no certification for that album.

4. That's not true either. Starting in the 50s teen idols were marketed specifically.

5. National scene? The Osmonds were on network TV in the early 60s. Not late 60s like the Jacksons.

6. And MJ ceased to be relevant. His career was a side not to the mess he'd made of his personal life. He only put out a few albums in the last few decades and there was a major drop off of sales for the last album.

Before I reply I gotta hand it to you, you never let facts get in the way of a good debate. Now, on to the counterpoints.

1. What about what I am saying is unclear here. I'm NOT saying MJ was the first person who ever made a music video, I'm not saying other bands weren't making videos. I'm saying the MODERN pop video was invented by MJ. Name a major pop star:Britney/Rihanna/J. Timberlake. anybody. Now look at their video. The STRUCTURE of the video...that started with MJ.

2. Don't get it twisted. I said that MJs dancing in videos was groundbreaking. YOU said dancing had no place in music videos. It was always a part of my original argument. And I maintain dancing and other visual stimuli matter in a VIDEO, whether you think so or not.

3. Look harder. Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5 was released in 1969 and sold over 5 million copies link. URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Ross_Presents_The_Jackson_5

4. Dude, I'm not saying the Jackson 5 were the first ever teen idols. However the word wasn't invented in the 50s, they were called "matinee idols" back then BEFORE THE WORD TEEN IDOL WAS INVENTED FOR MJ.

5. The Osmonds were a variety show act on network TV, I never disputed this. It was only AFTER they were signed to a major label that they became national stars and platinum pop artists. This was all a plot from their record company. See, a songwriter pitched one of his songs to the Jackson 5. J5 turned it down. After that, the record company that had just signed the Osmonds were then pitched the exact same song. The record company bought the song, gave it to the Osmonds to sing, and instructed them to sing and perform in the style of the Jackson 5. It was ONLY AFTER RELEASING THIS SONG(One Bad Apple) that the Osmonds became recognized as national sensations. Again, this is a fact.

6.. You are changing your argument after another is debunked. EVERY SINGLE ALBUM MICHEAL JACKSON EVER RELEASED AFTER 1980 WENT PLATINUM. His last studio album? Invincible? The one with the major drop off in sales? That sold 13 MILLION copies. I'm sure artists would LOVE to have poor sales like that.

Lol people are actually trying to debate this? The ignorance..... Michael Jackson is and will always be the king of enterainment! The guy is absolutely amazing and things he had to put up with in life were absolutely disgraceful considering the effort he put in to make the world a better place. Anyone who trys to refute the claim that he is the greatest enterainer of all time is wrong...simple as. It is obvious looking at the facts and figures, even the most biased person has to admit no single person comes close. Anyone who doubts this mans musical talent go look up some acapellas of MJ, his voice is incredible. The range...the power...the emotion is on another level to the vast majority of singers, only the likes of Freddie Mercury are his rivals.

Add together his untouchable dancing (he has NO rivals in this regard), his choreography, his amazing live shows and music videos (even to this day no one comes close), his creativity and innovativeness, his deep lyrics and compositions, and his humbleness and incredible charity (for example he donated his ENTIRE earnings for his Victory Tour to charity) and really no one comes close. I personally had tickets to his shows in London and was beyond devastated when he died, the speed that they sold out is another indicator of his greatest. Who could emulate that? Heck even some of his unreleased material is better than the vast majority of music nowadays. Sunset driver to name just one! King Of Music no doubt!

dom2000

It's all subjective. Trying to pass it off as fact just makes you sound stupid and ignorant.SF_KiLLaMaN

True...but you never answered my question.

Damn, LJ got sh*tted on ^^

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]

It's all subjective. Trying to pass it off as fact just makes you sound stupid and ignorant.sayyy-gaa

True...but you never answered my question.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]What's Iron Maiden?

And do you have any links or stats about your claim that Iron Maiden gains more fans every year than Michael Jackson?

Or is this just Internet Statistics?

Nuck81

It's not even worth bothering with the guy.

Before I reply I gotta hand it to you, you never let facts get in the way of a good debate. Now, on to the counterpoints.

1. What about what I am saying is unclear here. I'm NOT saying MJ was the first person who ever made a music video, I'm not saying other bands weren't making videos. I'm saying the MODERN pop video was invented by MJ. Name a major pop star:Britney/Rihanna/J. Timberlake. anybody. Now look at their video. The STRUCTURE of the video...that started with MJ.

2. Don't get it twisted. I said that MJs dancing in videos was groundbreaking. YOU said dancing had no place in music videos. It was always a part of my original argument. And I maintain dancing and other visual stimuli matter in a VIDEO, whether you think so or not.

3. Look harder. Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5 was released in 1969 and sold over 5 million copies link. URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Ross_Presents_The_Jackson_5

4. Dude, I'm not saying the Jackson 5 were the first ever teen idols. However the word wasn't invented in the 50s, they were called "matinee idols" back then BEFORE THE WORD TEEN IDOL WAS INVENTED FOR MJ.

5. The Osmonds were a variety show act on network TV, I never disputed this. It was only AFTER they were signed to a major label that they became national stars and platinum pop artists. This was all a plot from their record company. See, a songwriter pitched one of his songs to the Jackson 5. J5 turned it down. After that, the record company that had just signed the Osmonds were then pitched the exact same song. The record company bought the song, gave it to the Osmonds to sing, and instructed them to sing and perform in the style of the Jackson 5. It was ONLY AFTER RELEASING THIS SONG(One Bad Apple) that the Osmonds became recognized as national sensations. Again, this is a fact.

6.. You are changing your argument after another is debunked. EVERY SINGLE ALBUM MICHEAL JACKSON EVER RELEASED AFTER 1980 WENT PLATINUM. His last studio album? Invincible? The one with the major drop off in sales? That sold 13 MILLION copies. I'm sure artists would LOVE to have poor sales like that.

sayyy-gaa

1. *sigh* And that wasn't my point. You want to elevate him. Period. My point was music videos existed before MJ that were more than cameras and lights. Stop repeating that you didn't say he was the first person. I can only conclude you have no other response since you CONTINUE to assert that whereas that isn't even the discussion.

2. Twisting? I believe my comments were in regard to concerts to start with. YOU started arguing about music videos which really isn't the same topic. Again...I can only conclude you have no other response sincy you CONTINUE to throw music videos in when the initial discussion was over MUSIC CONCERTS and the fact that one has to rely on dance rather than musician ship demonstrates a lack of said musicianship.

3. At the time. Not the current count. I want the initial sell through...but since it's only hit 5 M in 2012 and was released in 1969...I'm guessing it didn't move that many copies that quickly.

4. Dude...that's not correct. Matinee Idol was prior. MJ didn't become a teen idol until the 80s and that term existed way before he became one. Period. However to humor you here is a quote about the first teen idol...."Teen idols" were by no means a phenomenon that began with the rock & roll era; bobbysoxers had been pining to the sound of mainstream pop crooners for a good decade or more before Elvis hit the scene. As far as rock was concerned, the original teen idol was Pat Boone, whose first hits were bowdlerized versions of classic rockers by Little Richard and Fats Domino. Hmm...imagine that. Not MJ and by a few decades.

5. None of that changes the fact that The Osmonds were indeed a boy band before The Jacksons. 1962 comes before 1969 dude.

6. I didn't change any argument. Follow a conversation. You haven't debunked anything. Everything I read contradicts your hero worship. MJ last album sold 2M to date in the US. Less than that in other countries.

Here's the breakdown....

• US: 2,000,000

(2,138,000)

• AUS: 140,000
• CAN: (100,000)
• FRA: 300,000
• GER: 300,000
• NL: 80,000
• NZ: 15,000
• SWZ: 40,000
• UK: 300,000

That does not add up to 13M...not even close.

Damn, LJ got sh*tted on ^^

DaJuicyMan

[QUOTE="sayyy-gaa"]

Before I reply I gotta hand it to you, you never let facts get in the way of a good debate. Now, on to the counterpoints.

1. What about what I am saying is unclear here. I'm NOT saying MJ was the first person who ever made a music video, I'm not saying other bands weren't making videos. I'm saying the MODERN pop video was invented by MJ. Name a major pop star:Britney/Rihanna/J. Timberlake. anybody. Now look at their video. The STRUCTURE of the video...that started with MJ.

2. Don't get it twisted. I said that MJs dancing in videos was groundbreaking. YOU said dancing had no place in music videos. It was always a part of my original argument. And I maintain dancing and other visual stimuli matter in a VIDEO, whether you think so or not.

3. Look harder. Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5 was released in 1969 and sold over 5 million copies link. URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Ross_Presents_The_Jackson_5

4. Dude, I'm not saying the Jackson 5 were the first ever teen idols. However the word wasn't invented in the 50s, they were called "matinee idols" back then BEFORE THE WORD TEEN IDOL WAS INVENTED FOR MJ.

5. The Osmonds were a variety show act on network TV, I never disputed this. It was only AFTER they were signed to a major label that they became national stars and platinum pop artists. This was all a plot from their record company. See, a songwriter pitched one of his songs to the Jackson 5. J5 turned it down. After that, the record company that had just signed the Osmonds were then pitched the exact same song. The record company bought the song, gave it to the Osmonds to sing, and instructed them to sing and perform in the style of the Jackson 5. It was ONLY AFTER RELEASING THIS SONG(One Bad Apple) that the Osmonds became recognized as national sensations. Again, this is a fact.

6.. You are changing your argument after another is debunked. EVERY SINGLE ALBUM MICHEAL JACKSON EVER RELEASED AFTER 1980 WENT PLATINUM. His last studio album? Invincible? The one with the major drop off in sales? That sold 13 MILLION copies. I'm sure artists would LOVE to have poor sales like that.

LJS9502_basic

1. *sigh* And that wasn't my point. You want to elevate him. Period. My point was music videos existed before MJ that were more than cameras and lights. Stop repeating that you didn't say he was the first person. I can only conclude you have no other response since you CONTINUE to assert that whereas that isn't even the discussion.

2. Twisting? I believe my comments were in regard to concerts to start with. YOU started arguing about music videos which really isn't the same topic. Again...I can only conclude you have no other response sincy you CONTINUE to throw music videos in when the initial discussion was over MUSIC CONCERTS and the fact that one has to rely on dance rather than musician ship demonstrates a lack of said musicianship.

3. At the time. Not the current count. I want the initial sell through...but since it's only hit 5 M in 2012 and was released in 1969...I'm guessing it didn't move that many copies that quickly.

4. Dude...that's not correct. Matinee Idol was prior. MJ didn't become a teen idol until the 80s and that term existed way before he became one. Period. However to humor you here is a quote about the first teen idol...."Teen idols" were by no means a phenomenon that began with the rock & roll era; bobbysoxers had been pining to the sound of mainstream pop crooners for a good decade or more before Elvis hit the scene. As far as rock was concerned, the original teen idol was Pat Boone, whose first hits were bowdlerized versions of classic rockers by Little Richard and Fats Domino. Hmm...imagine that. Not MJ and by a few decades.

5. None of that changes the fact that The Osmonds were indeed a boy band before The Jacksons. 1962 comes before 1969 dude.

6. I didn't change any argument. Follow a conversation. You haven't debunked anything. Everything I read contradicts your hero worship. MJ last album sold 2M to date in the US. Less than that in other countries.

Here's the breakdown....

• US: 2,000,000

(2,138,000)

• AUS: 140,000
• CAN: (100,000)
• FRA: 300,000
• GER: 300,000
• NL: 80,000
• NZ: 15,000
• SWZ: 40,000
• UK: 300,000

That does not add up to 13M...not even close.

1. My point was that MJ invented the modern music video and you tried to debunk that. Don't change course now.

2. Your remark regarding music videos was that dancing doesn't matter in a music VIDEO. Again, let's be consistent.

3. Noone is going to have numbers from 1970. Having said that, the album was a major success.

4. You don't know what you're talking about. MJ was a huge teen idol in the 70s when motown coined the phrase to describe him. The word did not exist before that. Again, I'm NOT SAYING MJ was the first teen idol, but that the word was invented to describe him. I am well aware of other teen idols before MJ. One of my favorite artists ever is Frank Sinatra, but that WORD was not used to describe any of them.

5. The Osmonds were NOT a boy band before they signed their major deal. They were a normal variety act group. Like I said, they became big time after copying Michael Jackson and the Jackson 5. The "blueprint" of what came to be known as a boy band didn't start with them. Before they were big time they weren't even pop and one of the older dudes in the group sang lead(i.e. not Donnie). WHEN THEY COPIED J5, they lined up with what we now widely recognize as a boy band.(tight choreography, really talented precocious lead, outrageous clothing, swooning to girls,etc.)

6.Those aren't current album sales. Currently, Invincible has sold 13 milliion worldwide. The sales you posted are for initial tracking. To wit ,from wikipedia:

Invincible re-entered music charts several times during the decade. Despite selling 13 million copies worldwide... Link=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_%28Michael_Jackson_album%29

DIG UP HIS BONESKiIIyou

It's all subjective. Trying to pass it off as fact just makes you sound stupid and ignorant.SF_KiLLaMaN

Coming from the guy who thinks high schoolers are the be all end all decider of relevancy in music.

You're killing me here.

[QUOTE="sayyy-gaa"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] hm, I don't remember you asking me a question. Care to repeat it?SF_KiLLaMaN

Here you go...from a few pages back.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]Someone being the greatest performer is completely subjective though. sayyy-gaa

EUREKA...we are making progress. One person's opinion is subjective I will grant you. But how do you argue in a forum FULL of differing opinions who is or isn't the greatest performer of all time?

I was going to type my opinion on that question but it I don't want to taint your response. Again, I honestly ask, how can you intelligently debate among [fairly] reasonable people who is the greatest performer of all time, trying to leave biases out of it?

[QUOTE="DaJuicyMan"]

Damn, LJ got sh*tted on ^^

LJS9502_basic

in a forum FULL of differing opinions who is or isn't the greatest performer of all time?

I was going to type my opinion on that question but it I don't want to taint your response. Again, I honestly ask, how can you intelligently debate among [fairly] reasonable people who is the greatest performer of all time, trying to leave biases out of it?

sayyy-gaa

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]It's all subjective. Trying to pass it off as fact just makes you sound stupid and ignorant.VanHelsingBoA64

Coming from the guy who thinks high schoolers are the be all end all decider of relevancy in music.

[QUOTE="VanHelsingBoA64"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]It's all subjective. Trying to pass it off as fact just makes you sound stupid and ignorant.SF_KiLLaMaN

Coming from the guy who thinks high schoolers are the be all end all decider of relevancy in music.

1. My point was that MJ invented the modern music video and you tried to debunk that. Don't change course now.

2. Your remark regarding music videos was that dancing doesn't matter in a music VIDEO. Again, let's be consistent.

3. Noone is going to have numbers from 1970. Having said that, the album was a major success.

4. You don't know what you're talking about. MJ was a huge teen idol in the 70s when motown coined the phrase to describe him. The word did not exist before that. Again, I'm NOT SAYING MJ was the first teen idol, but that the word was invented to describe him. I am well aware of other teen idols before MJ. One of my favorite artists ever is Frank Sinatra, but that WORD was not used to describe any of them.

5. The Osmonds were NOT a boy band before they signed their major deal. They were a normal variety act group. Like I said, they became big time after copying Michael Jackson and the Jackson 5. The "blueprint" of what came to be known as a boy band didn't start with them. Before they were big time they weren't even pop and one of the older dudes in the group sang lead(i.e. not Donnie). WHEN THEY COPIED J5, they lined up with what we now widely recognize as a boy band.(tight choreography, really talented precocious lead, outrageous clothing, swooning to girls,etc.)

6.Those aren't current album sales. Currently, Invincible has sold 13 milliion worldwide. The sales you posted are for initial tracking. To wit ,from wikipedia:

Invincible re-entered music charts several times during the decade. Despite selling 13 million copies worldwide... Link=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_%28Michael_Jackson_album%29

sayyy-gaa

1. Your point was you expressed your opinion whereas music videos did, in fact, exist before MJ made one. You were wrong.

2. Be consisent? This discussion started out about concerts and you continue to push music videos. Dancing is not an important and necessary element of music videos. You want to prance around your house dancing to them....more power to you. But don't assume having dance in a music video is some quality achievement.

3. Therefore, your third point was meaningless. Glad you admitted it.

4. The term existed before Motown dude. Teen idols existed way before MJ and it's totall bullsh*t to insist otherwise. Is your enjoyment of his pop music so threatened that you try to rewrite history to make him more than he was? Teen idols started way back when MJ was in diapers dude if he even existed.

5. LOL.....you know the Jacksons saw the Osmonds on TV and wanted to be like them? No of course you don't know that. You're too busy rewriting MJs history to put him on Mt Olympus.

6. To wit. I got the current numbers for the album from wiki.

Don't get your panties in a twist because MJ wasn't the innovator you want to believe. Come down to reality dude.:lol:

Edit; here's a quote for you about the original use of the term Teen Idol...hint...it was not Motown....and it wasn't for MJ.

LIFE magazine actually coined the phrase "Teen Idol" to describe Ricky Nelson and the frenzy surrounding his fame in music and on television starring in ?The Adventures of Ozzie & Harriet?. Ricky Nelson would later go on to sing about his teen popularity landing a Top 5 hit on the Hot 100 in 1962 titled ?Teenage Idol?. Ricky Nelson is the only artist to have a number one song "Poor Little Fool" - number one movie "Rio Bravo" and number one TV show "Ozzie & Harriet" all in same week.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="VanHelsingBoA64"]

Coming from the guy who thinks high schoolers are the be all end all decider of relevancy in music.MirkoS77

Freddie mercury was the best ever, he didn't need effects his voice was all the world needed

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] Not sure how you cannot grasp the concept of "if nobody listen to the music in the future it won't be remembered." It's quite simple to understand. If nobody listens to his music in the future, who is remembering it? Serious question here. I'd love to know your answer.

SF_KiLLaMaN

Freddie mercury was the best ever, he didn't need effects his voice was all the world needed

LaytonsCat

[QUOTE="LaytonsCat"]

Freddie mercury was the best ever, he didn't need effects his voice was all the world needed

BloooMoonMon

[QUOTE="LaytonsCat"]

Freddie mercury was the best ever, he didn't need effects his voice was all the world needed

BloooMoonMon

"Queen's performance on that day has since been voted by more than 60 artists, journalists and music industry executives as the greatest live performance in the history of rock music".

If you say Freddie and Queen sucked as entertainters your either extremely bias or just hating for no reason.

I am not saying MJ was bad, but for live peformances not up there with Queen or something like ACDC.