Morally Speaking, What Are Humans?

But according to the theory, the threat of predators (and thus death) is a factor which causes the prey to adapt new abilities to survive...... Lansdowne5

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"] Indeed. And not replying to a post does not necessarily equate to that post being ignored.

Lansdowne5

Well,I need to get off. I should be on tomorrow for an hour and a half, like today and yesterday.

Thanks for all your help, Lansdowne.:) Bye all.
(Romans 1:21-25) - "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. {22} Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, {23} And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. {24} Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: {25} Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

:| I'm not talking about a "threat" of death, I'm talking about those organisms that cannot adapt actually dying and, in doing so, allowing organisms that can and have adapted to pass on the genes required for survival in that area. In that way, death is a major evolutionary function.

BumFluff122

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="Packt"] Crushmaster, have you read Darwin's original work on domestication of dogs and pigeons? Just curious how you would explain animal domestication and selective breeding. I am honestly curious, so you don't have to create a few second snappy response. Just tell me what you know.Packt

Well, maybe you should start there for some answers. I've done my part and read the damned bible in it's many incarnations. How can you expect to form a rational self-bias if you haven't even read the fundamental source material. How can you expect anyone to want to debate with you?

I can probably give you a good guess as to why he doesn't do so. I think he would see it as questioning his faith, and by extension God Itself, by actually reading up on what his detractors believe.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] So thinking is a deed? Crushmaster

[QUOTE="Packt"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="Packt"] Crushmaster, have you read Darwin's original work on domestication of dogs and pigeons? Just curious how you would explain animal domestication and selective breeding. I am honestly curious, so you don't have to create a few second snappy response. Just tell me what you know.Crushmaster

Well, maybe you should start there for some answers. I've done my part and read the damned bible in it's many incarnations. How can you expect to form a rational self-bias if you haven't even read the fundamental source material. How can you expect anyone to want to debate with you?

Natural Selection isn't the ONLY mechanism supposedly involved in evolution, though, is it? Therefore, if gene flow is down to chance (and that is another part of the process) that means that whatever percentage it is, evolution IS partly down to chance.Lansdowne5

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] So thinking is a deed? Teenaged

What is thought? If you're going to question him based off of an abstract concept, you'll have to define it.

ur born with the power of choice...that's what decides wat u r

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]I have a question (for everyone): Do you consider death a "bad" thing?Teenaged

Generally that. ^

:| I didn't say it did. What I'm saying is that both sides are wrong when they say that it is only by chance or only by natural selection that evolution works. It is the sum total of all variables and mutations that can make one species go extinct and another rise to be dominant over all others.

tycoonmike

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
To a certain degree, as you choose what you think.

tycoonmike

What is thought? If you're going to question him based off of an abstract concept, you'll have to define it.

I dont see why its so hard to define thought. Or how me and CM can have such a different view that we cant communicate.

ur born with the power of choice...that's what decides wat u r

Chris_Williams

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"] Natural Selection isn't the ONLY mechanism supposedly involved in evolution, though, is it? Therefore, if gene flow is down to chance (and that is another part of the process) that means that whatever percentage it is, evolution IS partly down to chance.BumFluff122

I was the one who used that term. Maybe it wasn't the best choice of word. But my intended point was that which tycoonmike is making -- suggesting that death is a major evolutionary function.Lansdowne5

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]No. Your conclusion is invalid from its very foundation. Can you support that we choose what we think? Are you claiming humans have control over everything they think? Do you have that control? Can you control all your thoughts the subliminal, the impulsive?

Teenaged

What is thought? If you're going to question him based off of an abstract concept, you'll have to define it.

I dont see why its so hard to define thought. Or how me and CM can have such a different view that we cant communicate.

Circular reasoning. A thought is simply a thought because it is?

What about this definition: Representative reactions towards stimuli from internal chemical reactions or external environmental factors. (Don't blame me, blame the wiki)

Or this definition: the product of mental activity; that which one thinks

Or this definition: the capacity or faculty of thinking, reasoning, imagining, etc.

Or this one: a judgment, opinion, or belief.

(Latter three from www.dictionary.com)

Which one is right? Are any of them right? None of them really conform to your definition, so how can we be certain your definition is correct?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]I have a question (for everyone): Do you consider death a "bad" thing?Lansdowne5

Generally that. ^

In that case the adaptation was something that went along with death, it wasnt caused by it.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

What is thought? If you're going to question him based off of an abstract concept, you'll have to define it.

tycoonmike

I dont see why its so hard to define thought. Or how me and CM can have such a different view that we cant communicate.

Circular reasoning. A thought is simply a thought because it is?

What about this definition: Representative reactions towards stimuli from internal chemical reactions or external environmental factors. (Don't blame me, blame the wiki)

Well,I need to get off. I should be on tomorrow for an hour and a half, like today and yesterday.

Crushmaster

Me too. Until then....God Bless to all. :)

I just thought that common sense on the matter was adequate thats why I said it like that.

Teenaged

Unfortunately you'll find no foothold in common sense. Indeed, to me, thought is any concept or idea derived in the mind whether conscious or unconscious.

You're not dealing with something that can be solved using common sense, indeed no abstract concept can be unraveled or, for that matter, solved using common sense as such sense differs from person to person.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I just thought that common sense on the matter was adequate thats why I said it like that.

tycoonmike

Unfortunately you'll find no foothold in common sense. Indeed, to me, thought is any concept or idea derived in the mind whether conscious or unconscious.

But either way he hasnt answered so... :P

I know what natural selection is, and I know it's supposedly the main driving force behind evolution. BUT, are you claiming that evolution is not down to chance at all? i.e. - there is 0% chance involved in the process?Lansdowne5

This question seems appropriate, due to the topic's title. As, naturally, all of us are human. Here we go:

I have a question for any non-believerswho wish to answer: Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

This question seems appropriate, due to the topic's title. As, naturally, all of us are human. Here we go:

I have a question for any non-believerswho wish to answer: Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

Crushmaster

I am not perfect by far (as if anyone can be!) but I think I am a generally good person.

Everything that can be considered a thought. Not just the ones that come in your mind in clear words but also the impressions are thoughts. In a way thoughts are just the realisation of feelings in a more conscious level.

I dont see why its so hard to define thought. Or how me and CM can have such a different view that we cant communicate. Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] Everything that can be considered a thought. Not just the ones that come in your mind in clear words but also the impressions are thoughts. In a way thoughts are just the realisation of feelings in a more conscious level.

I dont see why its so hard to define thought. Or how me and CM can have such a different view that we cant communicate. Crushmaster

Are each and every of those kinds of thoughts controlable by you in order to be considered things you choose to think?

Yes I do. -_-

I am not perfect by far (as if anyone can be!) but I think I am a generally good person. Teenaged

I believe that we are all on the same terms. No matter how good we think we are. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Yes exactly.

Are each and every of those kinds of thoughts controlable by you in order to be considered things you choose to think? Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] Yes exactly.

Are each and every of those kinds of thoughts controlable by you in order to be considered things you choose to think? Crushmaster

..but as you wish.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

This question seems appropriate, due to the topic's title. As, naturally, all of us are human. Here we go:

I have a question for any non-believerswho wish to answer: Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

Teenaged

I am not perfect by far (as if anyone can be!) but I think I am a generally good person.

This question seems appropriate, due to the topic's title. As, naturally, all of us are human. Here we go:

I have a question for any non-believerswho wish to answer: Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

Crushmaster

To you I am probably a non-believer, but no I do not consider myself a good person. I am flawed in more ways than most and try to work with what I've been given to do right by myself and others.

Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

I believe that we are all on the same terms. No matter how good we think we are. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.J-man45

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

This question seems appropriate, due to the topic's title. As, naturally, all of us are human. Here we go:

I have a question for any non-believerswho wish to answer: Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

Second_Rook

To you I am probably a non-believer, but no I do not consider myself a good person. I am flawed in more ways than most and try to work with what I've been given to do right by myself and others.

Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

I can try to be "good" but in the end I will always sin and fall short in God's eyes.

What constitutes a non-believer to you? Someone who doesn't adhere to or has doubts about stiff and pragmatic views of organized christianity? Someone of another faith?

To you I am probably a non-believer, but no I do not consider myself a good person. I am flawed in more ways than most and try to work with what I've been given to do right by myself and others.

Do you consider yourself to be a good person? Second_Rook

Well I disagree...

..but as you wish. Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] Yes I do. -_-

I am not perfect by far (as if anyone can be!) but I think I am a generally good person. Crushmaster

Well the Bible is proven wrong on this one (to my eyes) because simply saying that I am generally a good person is not boastful in the least. I am aware of my numerous flaws, but those flaws dont necessarily make me bad. Besides like I have said in previous discussions at least from what most people tell me they have a good opinion about me in general. Of course this "evidence" of mine is subjective and you are not bound to believe it.

I think we have had that discussion about the 10 commandments before and I wont go through with it again since we have a major disagreement: you believe that even thoughts are importnant and should be taken into consideration for the 10 Com, while I dont.

This is a major differing point which I think will stand in the way of such a discussion dont you think?

I can try to be "good" but in the end I will always sin and fall short in God's eyes.

J-man45

[QUOTE="Second_Rook"] What constitutes a non-believer to you? Someone who doesn't adhere to or has doubts about stiff and pragmatic views of organized christianity? Someone of another faith?

To you I am probably a non-believer, but no I do not consider myself a good person. I am flawed in more ways than most and try to work with what I've been given to do right by myself and others.

Do you consider yourself to be a good person? Crushmaster

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

I can try to be "good" but in the end I will always sin and fall short in God's eyes.

Lansdowne5

exactly.

I dont care what the Bible says about what I will say. The Bible makes that statement to make it clear that non-believers are boastful, not humble and all that stuff like the one belief that non-believers just hate god.

Well the Bible is proven wrong on this one (to my eyes) because simply saying that I am generally a good person is not boastful in the least. I am aware of my numerous flaws, but those flaws dont necessarily make me bad. Besides like I have said in previous discussions at least from what most people tell me they have a good opinion about me in general. Of course this "evidence" of mine is subjective and you are not bound to believe it.

I think we have had that discussion about the 10 commandments before and I wont go through with it again since we have a major disagreement: you believe that even thoughts are importnant and should be taken into consideration for the 10 Com, while I dont.

This is a major differing point which I think will stand in the way of such a discussion dont you think? Teenaged

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="Second_Rook"] What constitutes a non-believer to you? Someone who doesn't adhere to or has doubts about stiff and pragmatic views of organized christianity? Someone of another faith?

To you I am probably a non-believer, but no I do not consider myself a good person. I am flawed in more ways than most and try to work with what I've been given to do right by myself and others.

Do you consider yourself to be a good person? Second_Rook

are murder and theft in your nature? Just wondering.

Of course not. Nobody could live their entire life without an infraction upon commands that go against what is in their nature.Second_Rook

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

This question seems appropriate, due to the topic's title. As, naturally, all of us are human. Here we go:

I have a question for any non-believerswho wish to answer: Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

Lansdowne5

I am not perfect by far (as if anyone can be!) but I think I am a generally good person.

Now as of another criterion like I told Crush, is my everyday interaction with people.

Simple stuff like politeness, compassion, honesty and being just.

Now of course I never said that in each of these "sections" I was perfect but generally.

I am aware of my numerous flaws, but those flaws dont necessarily make me bad.

Teenaged

So your good points make you good, but your flaws don't make you bad? Do you rate yourself on percentages or something (60% good/40% bad?) and whichever comes out the highest is what you decide to label yourself as?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] I dont care what the Bible says about what I will say. The Bible makes that statement to make it clear that non-believers are boastful, not humble and all that stuff like the one belief that non-believers just hate god.

Well the Bible is proven wrong on this one (to my eyes) because simply saying that I am generally a good person is not boastful in the least. I am aware of my numerous flaws, but those flaws dont necessarily make me bad. Besides like I have said in previous discussions at least from what most people tell me they have a good opinion about me in general. Of course this "evidence" of mine is subjective and you are not bound to believe it.

I think we have had that discussion about the 10 commandments before and I wont go through with it again since we have a major disagreement: you believe that even thoughts are importnant and should be taken into consideration for the 10 Com, while I dont.

This is a major differing point which I think will stand in the way of such a discussion dont you think? Crushmaster