My Letter to Atheists

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="mattisgod01"]What ideology? You make it sound like i have an Atheist Bible that i read from. I don't beleive God exists so anyone who claims to act in his name or though his word are wrong, That's Atheism. What other position could an Atheist take? I might be more outspoken then most but i'm honestly surprised more Atheists aren't. Do you not see all the bad religion has done throughout history and still today or do you just refuse to look?mattisgod01

You are trying to make Atheism sound like a religion. Democrats have a set of beleifs and ideas they follow, Atheism is the lack of beleif in God. If simply not believing in something is an Ideology then it takes away all effective meaning from the word. I said "claims to act in his name or though his word" is wrong. This is the default position of an Atheist. God does not exist so he can not speak to you and anyone who acts in the name of a non-existent God is acting for the wrong reasons.

If you had 2 neighbours, one bakes you cookies and the other is planning to murder you who would you be more focused on? Fae more Atrocities have been commited in the name of Christianity then by the Nazis yet you don't expect people to focus on all the good they did at the detriment of the bad? There hasn't been a day gone by in the last 2000 years where someone hasn't been murdered in the name of religion. How can you honestly brush aside the major part religion played in all these events over the millennia? You just put it down to bad people doing bad things? really?

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] I said ideology... which it is most definitely. And you, not unlike a lot of people who claim religion is the bane of modern development, tend to adhere to that ideology so strictly, that it mirrors the devotion of religious fundamentalists.gaming25

What ideology? You make it sound like i have an Atheist Bible that i read from. I don't beleive God exists so anyone who claims to act in his name or though his word are wrong, That's Atheism. What other position could an Atheist take? I might be more outspoken then most but i'm honestly surprised more Atheists aren't. Do you not see all the bad religion has done throughout history and still today or do you just refuse to look?

What is Christianity without people and what makes a Christian a Christian without beleif in the Bible? If people beleive the Bible is divine and live their lives based on its teachings then when an Institution born from it commands an amry of Christians to Retake a land deemed Holy for a chance at Absolution do you not see the religion playing a major part in the events that unfolded?

[QUOTE="gaming25"][QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

What ideology? You make it sound like i have an Atheist Bible that i read from. I don't beleive God exists so anyone who claims to act in his name or though his word are wrong, That's Atheism. What other position could an Atheist take? I might be more outspoken then most but i'm honestly surprised more Atheists aren't. Do you not see all the bad religion has done throughout history and still today or do you just refuse to look?

What is Christianity without people and what makes a Christian a Christian without beleif in the Bible? If people beleive the Bible is divine and live their lives based on its teachings then when an Institution born from it commands an amry of Christians to Retake a land deemed Holy for a chance at Absolution do you not see the religion playing a major part in the events that unfolded?

Having looked at history without a bias that condemns religion before even seeing evidence for it, I tend not to see the things you so hotly claim is happening. But whatever floats your boat I guess. I should probably take Karen Armstrong's advice and just shut up now, as arguing with someone so set in their ways will just cement their beliefs even further.foxhound_fox

You seem to grossly underestimate the hold the various religions have had on the world for the last 2000+ years. Everything and i mean Everything has had religion involved one way or another. The Catholic Church is a political organisation, It is today and has been since the fall of Rome been one of the most powerful (At a time indisputably the most powerful) organisations in the world, They where born out of Christianity and survive on peoples beleifs in Christianity. They are obsesed with keeping power and they will do whatever it takes to keep it. If you look at Modern or European history with a beleif that this Organisation is pure and interested in anything other then power then you are missing so much truth. Make no mistake, The Vatican would love to convert everyone on earth to Christianity had they the chance.

As for argument...What exactly have you said? I have yet to see you put forward anything to counter my claims other then suggesting i'm just like religious fundamentalists and that i'm so focused on my views that i fail to see anything else.

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="gaming25"] Ive seen all the bad that people have done, but not necissarily what Christianity as the text has done. And a position on whether or not God exists is still a position and a stance on the matter.gaming25

What is Christianity without people and what makes a Christian a Christian without beleif in the Bible? If people beleive the Bible is divine and live their lives based on its teachings then when an Institution born from it commands an army of Christians to Retake a land deemed Holy for a chance at Absolution do you not see the religion playing a major part in the events that unfolded?

Religion is a tool of indoctrination, It instills in people a set of beliefs that can cause otherwise good and rational people to do Irrational things. Sure at the end of the day people make a decision to act a certain way but what motivates that person and their perception of good and bad, right and wrong all play a part. To say that it is simply people to blame would be to say that German are inherently evil as it was them to blame and not Nazism. Don't underestimate the power of indoctrination.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]Having looked at history without a bias that condemns religion before even seeing evidence for it, I tend not to see the things you so hotly claim is happening. But whatever floats your boat I guess. I should probably take Karen Armstrong's advice and just shut up now, as arguing with someone so set in their ways will just cement their beliefs even further.mattisgod01

You seem to grossly underestimate the hold the various religions have had on the world for the last 2000+ years. Everything and i mean Everything has had religion involved one way or another. The Catholic Church is a political organisation, It is today and has been since the fall of Rome been one of the most powerful (At a time indisputably the most powerful) organisations in the world, They where born out of Christianity and survive on peoples beleifs in Christianity. They are obsesed with keeping power and they will do whatever it takes to keep it. If you look at Modern or European history with a beleif that this Organisation is pure and interested in anything other then power then you are missing so much truth. Make no mistake, The Vatican would love to convert everyone on earth to Christianity had they the chance.

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]Having looked at history without a bias that condemns religion before even seeing evidence for it, I tend not to see the things you so hotly claim is happening. But whatever floats your boat I guess. I should probably take Karen Armstrong's advice and just shut up now, as arguing with someone so set in their ways will just cement their beliefs even further.gaming25

You seem to grossly underestimate the hold the various religions have had on the world for the last 2000+ years. Everything and i mean Everything has had religion involved one way or another. The Catholic Church is a political organisation, It is today and has been since the fall of Rome been one of the most powerful (At a time indisputably the most powerful) organisations in the world, They where born out of Christianity and survive on peoples beleifs in Christianity. They are obsesed with keeping power and they will do whatever it takes to keep it. If you look at Modern or European history with a beleif that this Organisation is pure and interested in anything other then power then you are missing so much truth. Make no mistake, The Vatican would love to convert everyone on earth to Christianity had they the chance.

With or without religion we will always have evil people and War. However, For thousands of years people have been killing, going to war, discriminating against others all the the name of religion. Religion has done nothing but divide people further. Just one more reason to differentiate people. So many problems today have their roots in Religion. I think religion has had it's chance to prove it can be peaceful and co-exist with everyone and it has failed over and over again.

[QUOTE="gaming25"][QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

You seem to grossly underestimate the hold the various religions have had on the world for the last 2000+ years. Everything and i mean Everything has had religion involved one way or another. The Catholic Church is a political organisation, It is today and has been since the fall of Rome been one of the most powerful (At a time indisputably the most powerful) organisations in the world, They where born out of Christianity and survive on peoples beleifs in Christianity. They are obsesed with keeping power and they will do whatever it takes to keep it. If you look at Modern or European history with a beleif that this Organisation is pure and interested in anything other then power then you are missing so much truth. Make no mistake, The Vatican would love to convert everyone on earth to Christianity had they the chance.

mattisgod01

With or without religion we will always have evil people and War. However, For thousands of years people have been killing, going to war, discriminating against others all the the name of religion. Religion has done nothing but divide people further. Just one more reason to differentiate people. So many problems today have their roots in Religion. I think religion has had it's chance to prove it can be peaceful and co-exist with everyone and it has failed over and over again.

There have been killings, going to war, and discriminating without religion too. The point is that it is when someone is evil, that evil things happen. Not due to the Bible.

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="gaming25"] But what does that have to do with the religion at its core? Evil should end, not Christianity.gaming25

With or without religion we will always have evil people and War. However, For thousands of years people have been killing, going to war, discriminating against others all the the name of religion. Religion has done nothing but divide people further. Just one more reason to differentiate people. So many problems today have their roots in Religion. I think religion has had it's chance to prove it can be peaceful and co-exist with everyone and it has failed over and over again.

There have been killings, going to war, and discriminating without religion too. The point is that it is when someone is evil, that evil things happen. Not due to the Bible.

If through the Bible they beleive that what they are doing is justified then the bible is responsible for making them evil. Would the Terrorists who flew planes into the WTC have done so if they believed that death was the end, No paradise, No 72 Virgins, just rotting in the ground. What motivation would they have had? Religion gave them a reason and warped their minds towards unrealistic expectations and misguided beleifs. If they had grown up in another country under different circumstances do you beleive all of them would still have gone on to commit an evil act or would most if not all live peaceful lives. Religion is the key to understanding why they did what they did, While it wasn't necessarily the only motivation it was fundamental.

[QUOTE="gaming25"]

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

With or without religion we will always have evil people and War. However, For thousands of years people have been killing, going to war, discriminating against others all the the name of religion. Religion has done nothing but divide people further. Just one more reason to differentiate people. So many problems today have their roots in Religion. I think religion has had it's chance to prove it can be peaceful and co-exist with everyone and it has failed over and over again.

mattisgod01

There have been killings, going to war, and discriminating without religion too. The point is that it is when someone is evil, that evil things happen. Not due to the Bible.

If through the Bible they beleive that what they are doing is justified then the bible is responsible for making them evil. Would the Terrorists who flew planes into the WTC have done so if they believed that death was the end, No paradise, No 72 Virgins, just rotting in the ground. What motivation would they have had? Religion gave them a reason and warped their minds towards unrealistic expectations and misguided beleifs. If they had grown up in another country under different circumstances do you beleive all of them would still have gone on to commit an evil act or would most if not all live peaceful lives. Religion is the key to understanding why they did what they did, While it wasn't necessarily the only motivation it was fundamental.

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="gaming25"]

There have been killings, going to war, and discriminating without religion too. The point is that it is when someone is evil, that evil things happen. Not due to the Bible.

dsmccracken

If through the Bible they beleive that what they are doing is justified then the bible is responsible for making them evil. Would the Terrorists who flew planes into the WTC have done so if they believed that death was the end, No paradise, No 72 Virgins, just rotting in the ground. What motivation would they have had? Religion gave them a reason and warped their minds towards unrealistic expectations and misguided beleifs. If they had grown up in another country under different circumstances do you beleive all of them would still have gone on to commit an evil act or would most if not all live peaceful lives. Religion is the key to understanding why they did what they did, While it wasn't necessarily the only motivation it was fundamental.

The first Crusades were to retake the Holy land of Jerusalem, The Next 8 were for the same thing. But thats ancient history right...It's not like anyone fights over Holy land anymore. People do not get so sick of political meddling that they strap explosives to themselves and blow up a school bus full of children, If religion even so much as convinces them that death is not the end and that they will be rewarded in the after life then that is reason enough to hold religion to part of the blame. The big issue in Iraq is conflict Between the Sunni and the Shiites, Both sides disagree with each other because of different religious views, Thats why the division exists in the first place. Religion is Politics and when one religion fights another for religious power that is a religious war. Such things have occured for thousands of years. War is actaully very basic underneath, People differentiate themselves from others Whether it be National Borders, Race or religion. All these things lead to war. Religion is a reason for one person to hate another and millions have died because of this pointless disagreement. If only Religion was as peaceful and tolerant as some claim it is.

To simply say that without religion we would still fight the same battles isn't true, you take away the fundamental reason or the tool of indoctrination that convinces your fighters to fight then you take away any motivation to go to war, Far too many wars have been fought for nothing more then 2 groups religious differences and too many generational blood feuds have been born and many still exist today all because of religion. I could make an almost endless list of wars fought that have been deeply rooted in religion.

[QUOTE="playmynutz"]I dont know what everyone is arguing about but athiest believe in god. stop lying you know you do. i understand you are against religion but to call yourself an athiest you need to be aware of a god. athiest in itself is a relgion because it is a label for a behavior. If athiest seriously did not believe in a god they wouldn't go out their way to advocate their belief. a true person that does not believe in a god is not an athiest, there is no label for these types of people besides unaware of god. Face it athiest you believe in god. if you choose not to believe in god than by default you believe the individual him or her self is the surpreme power of their own reality. simply put you believe you yourself is a god. Not believing in god is just a sleezy way to say i believe i am god.foxhound_fox

I was going to make a response to it but then i thought...No. I honeslty didn't know where to start to what to say.

If i think science done a good job and i'm just waiting on science to disprove god.playmynutz

If i think science done a good job and i'm just waiting on science to disprove god. isn't that equivilent to the second coming of christ for an athiest? the holy grail that god is disproved. wouldnt that be a goal of an atheist to disprove god? if your not trying to disprove god then what are you declearing by calling yourself an athiest? if i try to imagine an atheist reality. black is black. white is white. i dont see a god anywhere. i must be god then because it sure feels like it. i wake myself up and i put myself to sleep, sounds like i have all the power. only reason i don't believe in that is because THERE IS MORE THAN ONE HUMAN. so i cant be god when their is someone else equal to me. i can see people dont like the word "god". want me to call it "power"? or should i call it "the universe"? hey i can say "love" but in my mind im talking about god. Trust me you believe in god atheist. its just in your mind you dont call it "god" you just have a different label for god. uhhh medieval what pre-renaissance medieval what? im talking to u from a human standpoint without influence or bias. its the label game when it comes to arguing with people. you say tomato i say tomatoplaymynutz

That's not where the burden of proof lies on. The burden of proving god lies on the person who is advocating his existence.

If i think science done a good job and i'm just waiting on science to disprove god. isn't that equivilent to the second coming of christ for an athiest? the holy grail that god is disproved. wouldnt that be a goal of an atheist to disprove god? if your not trying to disprove god then what are you declearing by calling yourself an athiest? if i try to imagine an atheist reality. black is black. white is white. i dont see a god anywhere. i must be god then because it sure feels like it. i wake myself up and i put myself to sleep, sounds like i have all the power. only reason i don't believe in that is because THERE IS MORE THAN ONE HUMAN. so i cant be god when their is someone else equal to me. i can see people dont like the word "god". want me to call it "power"? or should i call it "the universe"? hey i can say "love" but in my mind im talking about god. Trust me you believe in god atheist. its just in your mind you dont call it "god" you just have a different label for god. uhhh medieval what pre-renaissance medieval what? im talking to u from a human standpoint without influence or bias. its the label game when it comes to arguing with people. you say tomato i say tomatoplaymynutz

I don't "Put Myself to sleep" i just go to sleep. Is there many Theists who beleive God does it for them? Wait what....Nevermind. It's like i have so much to say that it has all bundled up into a super dense mass that no clear thought can escape from. Well done. I don't want to play anymore.

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

If through the Bible they beleive that what they are doing is justified then the bible is responsible for making them evil. Would the Terrorists who flew planes into the WTC have done so if they believed that death was the end, No paradise, No 72 Virgins, just rotting in the ground. What motivation would they have had? Religion gave them a reason and warped their minds towards unrealistic expectations and misguided beleifs. If they had grown up in another country under different circumstances do you beleive all of them would still have gone on to commit an evil act or would most if not all live peaceful lives. Religion is the key to understanding why they did what they did, While it wasn't necessarily the only motivation it was fundamental.

mattisgod01

The first Crusades were to retake the Holy land of Jerusalem, The Next 8 were for the same thing. But thats ancient history right...It's not like anyone fights over Holy land anymore. People do not get so sick of political meddling that they strap explosives to themselves and blow up a school bus full of children, If religion even so much as convinces them that death is not the end and that they will be rewarded in the after life then that is reason enough to hold religion to part of the blame. The big issue in Iraq is conflict Between the Sunni and the Shiites, Both sides disagree with each other because of different religious views, Thats why the division exists in the first place. Religion is Politics and when one religion fights another for religious power that is a religious war. Such things have occured for thousands of years. War is actaully very basic underneath, People differentiate themselves from others Whether it be National Borders, Race or religion. All these things lead to war. Religion is a reason for one person to hate another and millions have died because of this pointless disagreement. If only Religion was as peaceful and tolerant as some claim it is.

To simply say that without religion we would still fight the same battles isn't true, you take away the fundamental reason or the tool of indoctrination that convinces your fighters to fight then you take away any motivation to go to war, Far too many wars have been fought for nothing more then 2 groups religious differences and too many generational blood feuds have been born and many still exist today all because of religion. I could make an almost endless list of wars fought that have been deeply rooted in religion.

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"] That is absurd. Even a non-believer like myself knows that people kill each other because that is what we do. People fight over land, and trade, and resources. Islamic terrorists don't gear up to attack the WTC for religion, they do it because of pent up frustration due to US political meddling. Show me a world without religion, and I'll show you a world where the same wars happen anyway, they'd just use a different pretext to barely conceal their lust for oil, or the spice trade, or clout, or whatever.dsmccracken

The first Crusades were to retake the Holy land of Jerusalem, The Next 8 were for the same thing. But thats ancient history right...It's not like anyone fights over Holy land anymore. People do not get so sick of political meddling that they strap explosives to themselves and blow up a school bus full of children, If religion even so much as convinces them that death is not the end and that they will be rewarded in the after life then that is reason enough to hold religion to part of the blame. The big issue in Iraq is conflict Between the Sunni and the Shiites, Both sides disagree with each other because of different religious views, Thats why the division exists in the first place. Religion is Politics and when one religion fights another for religious power that is a religious war. Such things have occured for thousands of years. War is actaully very basic underneath, People differentiate themselves from others Whether it be National Borders, Race or religion. All these things lead to war. Religion is a reason for one person to hate another and millions have died because of this pointless disagreement. If only Religion was as peaceful and tolerant as some claim it is.

To simply say that without religion we would still fight the same battles isn't true, you take away the fundamental reason or the tool of indoctrination that convinces your fighters to fight then you take away any motivation to go to war, Far too many wars have been fought for nothing more then 2 groups religious differences and too many generational blood feuds have been born and many still exist today all because of religion. I could make an almost endless list of wars fought that have been deeply rooted in religion.

You don't find it unusual that in all these religious conflicts that it is always absolutely one faith versing another? Muslims or Jews were not part of the Crusading Army. The Invading Arabs which led to the Crusades in 1095 were all Muslim. You don't see how faith could play a big part in the motivations? Sure alot of it was greed but the Crusades (Especially the first) were incredibly brutal for both sides. The Crusaders were a mercenary army made up of volunteers free to leave at any time but to do so would be to abandon God's will and turn your back on your faith, Needless to say almost none abandoned the cause. Pope Urban II managed to attract about 100,000 Christians to the cause, He did this by pleading to their Christianity and not their greed. The Crusaders marched on their faith, Very few had any wealth left by the end of it. If you take away the aspect of religion from the Crusades you take away the fundamental reason for them occuring.

I dont know what everyone is arguing about but athiest believe in god. stop lying you know you do. i understand you are against religion but to call yourself an athiest you need to be aware of a god. athiest in itself is a relgion because it is a label for a behavior. If athiest seriously did not believe in a god they wouldn't go out their way to advocate their belief. a true person that does not believe in a god is not an athiest, there is no label for these types of people besides unaware of god. Face it athiest you believe in god. if you choose not to believe in god than by default you believe the individual him or her self is the surpreme power of their own reality. simply put you believe you yourself is a god. Not believing in god is just a sleezy way to say i believe i am god.playmynutz

this post made me facepalm really hard.

"to call yourself an athiest you need to be aware of a god." - yes ofc and we all believe in santa too according to your logic. No wonder you can't see the very big flaws in religion with your awesome logic.

-"If athiest seriously did not believe in a god they wouldn't go out their way to advocate their belief." if atheists believed in god why would they go against him? atheists advocate against religion because its a plague in the world, always has, always will be.

-There is no god, the fact that we don't have a god doesn't mean we believe each one of us is good, what kind of nonsense is that? the word god means all powerful, no one has control in the evnts of his life. And why is that religious people are so weak minded that they always need some imaginary being to be in control of their lifes. You are what you do, i've seen poor people overcome poorness by working hard and studying, i've seen rich people become poor because they are lazy, and so on.

I don't think many atheists, myself included, have a problem with someone who accepts the scientific understanding of reality. I'm an atheist myself but do not have a problem with someone claiming that God's technique of forming things is through evolution. I have no problem with people who use the big bang in a way where they believe that God put that first particle into motion with the knowledge of it's consequences. I have a problem with people who deny sound science for belief as I'm sure many people do.

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="realguitarhero5"]"If there is no God, then I am God." -Dostoyevskyrealguitarhero5

So now your claiming to know other peoples subconcious mindsets? You are indeed a skilled individual.

[QUOTE="realguitarhero5"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"] Great bumper sticker slogan, with no real meat. Insert any fictional character in place of God, and it's nonsensical nature is revealed. "If there is no Easter Bunny, then I am the Easter Bunny." "If there is no Gandalf, then I am Gandalf."tenaka2

So now your claiming to know other peoples subconcious mindsets? You are indeed a skilled individual.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="playmynutz"]I dont know what everyone is arguing about but athiest believe in god. stop lying you know you do. i understand you are against religion but to call yourself an athiest you need to be aware of a god. athiest in itself is a relgion because it is a label for a behavior. If athiest seriously did not believe in a god they wouldn't go out their way to advocate their belief. a true person that does not believe in a god is not an athiest, there is no label for these types of people besides unaware of god. Face it athiest you believe in god. if you choose not to believe in god than by default you believe the individual him or her self is the surpreme power of their own reality. simply put you believe you yourself is a god. Not believing in god is just a sleezy way to say i believe i am god.realguitarhero5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eam-z1bwrk

[QUOTE="realguitarhero5"][QUOTE="wis3boi"] no amount of facepalm can cover this ridiculous comment Mordred19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eam-z1bwrk