Name something or someone that identifies your country...

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]

OT rule #32  Never debate with LJS.  He will win every time.  And it looks like he already has here.

Marx_Brother

You utter suck-up.

You may sigh all you want but my initial point still stands. Why don't you get that?  It's not that hard of a concept.  Actually.....no.  Americans don't....wish they were like the Netherlands.  Period....end of discussion....Just because you don't understand the sentence does not make your argument correct.  I stated clearly that he was incorrect and he was.  Why continue this argument?  You can't win it.

Americans do not want ANY drugs legalized at this time.  Again....end of discussion.  If the majority of Americans felt strongly for this it would occur.  They do not.  Most are against it.  Therefore, it is not legal.  Why continue this argument?  You can't win it.

Wish...well I've responded several time to what that sentence he made said.  Again...wish, want, desire...still as I stated above...Americans do not wish to be like your country.  Why continue this argument?  You can't win it.

I called you arrogant because you are trying to tell Americans what Americans want.  That is arrogance.  You got involved and rather worked up about a discussion that wasn't between you and I.  As you stated....I can also respond to you if I like....if you don't like or can't deal with then perhaps it's you that should not be on the forum.  Or at least not posting with me.  Why continue this argument?  You can't win.

I responded to each statement you made.  Now you can continue to sigh....but you've failed again.

LJS9502_basic

Awwwww aren't you a cutie?? :lol: For the 2975th time, I already posted that I KNOW the USA doesn't want to be like the Dutch. Read. My. Posts.

And just because you keep saying 'end of discussion', 'you can't win', and 'you fail' doesn't mean you win an argument. It's more like saying 'I think my opinion is the universal law and I will listen to nobody LALALALALA'

[QUOTE="-Karayan-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Karayan-"] I pity the people who don't want it, because they obviously have no idea what they're talking about. Legalization of drugs fights the crime that comes with it and prevents the spread of blood bound viruses through sharing needles. Homosexuality is completely natural as it happens throughout the entire animal kingdom.LJS9502_basic

It is what it is.....but that does not mean Americans walk around envious of the Netherlands. I'm sure it's a beautiful country.....just one that Americans don't compare themselves to...which was my point.

Or...perhaps we don't want those things and think the Netherlands has....well the ignorant.

 

Awwwww aren't you a cutie?? :lol: For the 2975th time, I already posted that I KNOW the USA doesn't want to be like the Dutch. Read. My. Posts.

And just because you keep saying 'end of discussion', 'you can't win', and 'you fail' doesn't mean you win an argument. It's more like saying 'I think my opinion is the universal law and I will listen to nobody LALALALALA'

Apenoot

I listen to those that know what they are talking about.  You have been arguing with me about Americans wanting to be like your country for pages.  That is why I have to keep reiterating that you can't win. PS...I counted your posts....you don't have 2975....know what that means?:wink:

[QUOTE="Apenoot"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]
The real Land of the Free.
Americans wish that their country was as free as the Netherlands. So do I, actually.
MeanQuestion

Actually......no. We don't.

Because we have lower percentages of murder, drug abuse, rape, and general crime? Because we actually THINK before sending our militairy to other countries? Because the Euro is a stronger currency than the dollar? Because we are more democratic? Because our average wellfare level is higher than yours?

Every country should be more like the Netherlands :D

Only countries that top us would be Sweden and some others.

Technically Europeans make less money than americans because our taxes are very high, but we don't have to pay for anything in the public areas....Like in most countries our busses are free, COMPLETELY free  (and much better ) care health care. The thing with you having more stuff than us can be debatable but it's a fact that 70% of all americans are living in very high debts (I got that from oprah, but it's still a fact) ...

You can't use the HDI thing in a arguement because A) It's very unreliable and B) The difference between the numbers is irrelevant once you go over the "High" milestone.

We're not the one who has a ban on gay marriage and soft drugs...-Karayan-

Congradulations, want a cookie?:|

[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]

OT rule #32  Never debate with LJS.  He will win every time.  And it looks like he already has here.

LJS9502_basic

You utter suck-up.

He obviously loves you complementing you like that.

"OT RULE 32 ! NEVER DEBATE WITH LJS. HE WILL WIN EVERY TIME"

What a loser.

[QUOTE="-Karayan-"]

We're not the one who has a ban on gay marriage and soft drugs...double_decker

Congradulations, want a cookie?:|

We're not the one who has a ban on gay marriage and soft drugs...-Karayan-

As I stated.....the majority of Americans don't want those issues.  It's not important to the majority.  Because you have it does not mean Americans want it.  Understand?

Example....we can own guns.  We think any country that does not allow it's citizens guns is less free.  You would disagree with that.  Your country is happy without them.  See the difference?  Would you feel if I said you wished you could be free like us for that reason was correct?  No, you would rightly disagree.

He obviously loves you complementing you like that.

Marx_Brother

Uh...what?

[QUOTE="-Karayan-"]We're not the one who has a ban on gay marriage and soft drugs...LJS9502_basic

As I stated.....the majority of Americans don't want those issues. It's not important to the majority. Because you have it does not mean Americans want it. Understand?

Example....we can own guns. We think any country that does not allow it's citizens guns is less free. You would disagree with that. Your country is happy without them. See the difference? Would you feel if I said you wished you could be free like us for that reason was correct? No, you would rightly disagree.

I listen to those that know what they are talking about.  You have been arguing with me about Americans wanting to be like your country for pages.  That is why I have to keep reiterating that you can't win. PS...I counted your posts....you don't have 2975....know what that means?:wink:LJS9502_basic

Thanks for telling me I know nothing, I suppose :roll: Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I haven't been argueing about America wanting to be like the Dutch for pages, I've been trying to tell you for several posts that you are right about Americans not wanting to be like the Dutch. I understand why you tell me I can't win, it's because you don't listen to what others have to say. It's disrespectful that you can't accept other ppl's opinion and have to tell them they 'fail' -- which is why I get slightly worked up discussing with you. You need to listen what other ppl have to say.

And I'm not good at math so whats with my 2975 posts? :D

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Karayan-"]We're not the one who has a ban on gay marriage and soft drugs...-Karayan-

As I stated.....the majority of Americans don't want those issues. It's not important to the majority. Because you have it does not mean Americans want it. Understand?

Example....we can own guns. We think any country that does not allow it's citizens guns is less free. You would disagree with that. Your country is happy without them. See the difference? Would you feel if I said you wished you could be free like us for that reason was correct? No, you would rightly disagree.

Ah....but the facts don't matter.  It's preception.  You perceive because your country has certain laws that makes it more free.  That isn't necessarily the criteria for other countries, however.  See what I mean?

No, I'm having dinner soon.-Karayan-

What're you having?:)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I listen to those that know what they are talking about.  You have been arguing with me about Americans wanting to be like your country for pages.  That is why I have to keep reiterating that you can't win. PS...I counted your posts....you don't have 2975....know what that means?:wink:Apenoot

Thanks for telling me I know nothing, I suppose :roll: Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I haven't been argueing about America wanting to be like the Dutch for pages, I've been trying to tell you for several posts that you are right about Americans not wanting to be like the Dutch. I understand why you tell me I can't win, it's because you don't listen to what others have to say. It's disrespectful that you can't accept other ppl's opinion and have to tell them they 'fail' -- which is why I get slightly worked up discussing with you. You need to listen what other ppl have to say.

And I'm not good at math so whats with my 2975 posts? :D

amen euro brother

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Uh....I didn't tell you not to post. I said you didn't have to recite a list. There is a difference young padawan.

As I've stated in several threads......apparently the majority of Americans do NOT want those issues. It does not make them less free....just different.

I made to statement as to personal preference. Please leave emotion out of discussions. I'm quite neutral in this thread....and dispassionate. I was simply responding to his illogical claim that Americans wished to be like the Netherlands. It isn't true. Settle down dude.

Apenoot

That 'claim the Americans want to be more like the Dutch' is based on nothing. He typed Wish in italic, he meant it as in 'they should want to wish for it'. Also I don't see why you don't just type 'Americans don't want to be like the Netherlands so this whole point is irrelevant though what you say might be true' instead of telling me to 'settle down' and calling me 'young padawan'. It makes you sound like a know-it-all. And I already said you were right about Americans not wanting to be like the Dutch... I just said that's a sad thing born from ignorance.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I listen to those that know what they are talking about.  You have been arguing with me about Americans wanting to be like your country for pages.  That is why I have to keep reiterating that you can't win. PS...I counted your posts....you don't have 2975....know what that means?:wink:Apenoot

Thanks for telling me I know nothing, I suppose :roll: Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I haven't been argueing about America wanting to be like the Dutch for pages, I've been trying to tell you for several posts that you are right about Americans not wanting to be like the Dutch. I understand why you tell me I can't win, it's because you don't listen to what others have to say. It's disrespectful that you can't accept other ppl's opinion and have to tell them they 'fail' -- which is why I get slightly worked up discussing with you. You need to listen what other ppl have to say.

And I'm not good at math so whats with my 2975 posts? :D

Your statement would mean more if you hadn't continually brough up Lilacs statement about Americans wishing to be more like the Netherlands. :roll:

[QUOTE="Apenoot"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Uh....I didn't tell you not to post. I said you didn't have to recite a list. There is a difference young padawan.

As I've stated in several threads......apparently the majority of Americans do NOT want those issues. It does not make them less free....just different.

I made to statement as to personal preference. Please leave emotion out of discussions. I'm quite neutral in this thread....and dispassionate. I was simply responding to his illogical claim that Americans wished to be like the Netherlands. It isn't true. Settle down dude.

Account_27

That 'claim the Americans want to be more like the Dutch' is based on nothing. He typed Wish in italic, he meant it as in 'they should want to wish for it'. Also I don't see why you don't just type 'Americans don't want to be like the Netherlands so this whole point is irrelevant though what you say might be true' instead of telling me to 'settle down' and calling me 'young padawan'. It makes you sound like a know-it-all. And I already said you were right about Americans not wanting to be like the Dutch... I just said that's a sad thing born from ignorance.

no but you can compare US the the EU and we just plain and simple have it better than you guys.... EU have a better economy and we have a MUCH better health care system.....but that's irrelevant, we must stand together as a united western force against China and terrorism

[QUOTE="-Karayan-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Karayan-"]We're not the one who has a ban on gay marriage and soft drugs...LJS9502_basic

As I stated.....the majority of Americans don't want those issues. It's not important to the majority. Because you have it does not mean Americans want it. Understand?

Example....we can own guns. We think any country that does not allow it's citizens guns is less free. You would disagree with that. Your country is happy without them. See the difference? Would you feel if I said you wished you could be free like us for that reason was correct? No, you would rightly disagree.

Ah....but the facts don't matter. It's preception. You perceive because your country has certain laws that makes it more free. That isn't necessarily the criteria for other countries, however. See what I mean?

Your statement would mean more if you hadn't continually brough up Lilacs statement about Americans wishing to be more like the Netherlands. :roll:LJS9502_basic

YOUR statement would be more if you would actually understand how Lilacs statement was meant to be read. Which is what I've been trying to tell you for pages, but you just keep going on and on about how Americans don't want to be like the Dutch. And I agreed with you on that point from the start.

I merely said THAT IN MY HONEST OPINION it's sad the US doesn't look at the Netherlands when it comes down to certain things.

Ah....but the facts don't matter.  It's preception.  LJS9502_basic

Didn't you say you based your reasoning on logic? Logic is based on FACTS. Not perception

I merely said THAT IN MY HONEST OPINION it's sad the US doesn't look at the Netherlands when it comes down to certain things.

Apenoot

IMO, I think it's sad that you think it's sad that Americans don't want to emulate the NL's:|

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Your statement would mean more if you hadn't continually brough up Lilacs statement about Americans wishing to be more like the Netherlands. :roll:Apenoot

YOUR statement would be more if you would actually understand how Lilacs statement was meant to be read. Which is what I've been trying to tell you for pages, but you just keep going on and on about how Americans don't want to be like the Dutch. And I agreed with you on that point from the start.

I merely said THAT IN MY HONEST OPINION it's sad the US doesn't look at the Netherlands when it comes down to certain things.

I understood Lilacs statement.  He meant Americans wished to be like the Netherlands.  And as I've told you....NO, we don't.  There was no misunderstanding.  He attacks America every chance he gets.  Perhaps if you knew some of the posters.....you'd know intent.  As it stands...you do not. 

Arrogance in your last sentence dude....

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ah....but the facts don't matter.  It's preception.  Apenoot

Didn't you say you based your reasoning on logic? Logic is based on FACTS. Not perception

Dude....when it comes to perception of freedom...that does not involve facts.  Sorry....

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Apenoot"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]
The real Land of the Free.
Americans wish that their country was as free as the Netherlands. So do I, actually.
Lilac_Benjie

Actually......no. We don't.

Because we have lower percentages of murder, drug abuse, rape, and general crime? Because we actually THINK before sending our militairy to other countries? Because the Euro is a stronger currency than the dollar? Because we are more democratic? Because our average wellfare level is higher than yours?

Every country should be more like the Netherlands :D

Only countries that top us would be Sweden and some others.

I understood Lilacs statement.  He meant Americans wished to be like the Netherlands.  And as I've told you....NO, we don't.  There was no misunderstanding.  He attacks America every chance he gets.  Perhaps if you knew some of the posters.....you'd know intent.  As it stands...you do not. 

Arrogance in your last sentence dude....

LJS9502_basic

Lilac said more Americans SHOULD wish to be more like the Dutch. Bugger he's gone now so he can't explain that to you in person. There also was no arrogance in my sentence about my points being my opinion. It's not arrogant for others than you to have an opinion.

Dude....when it comes to perception of freedom...that does not involve facts.  Sorry....

Then what does it involve? Cookies? People base their opinions around facts or what they perceive as facts.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I understood Lilacs statement.  He meant Americans wished to be like the Netherlands.  And as I've told you....NO, we don't.  There was no misunderstanding.  He attacks America every chance he gets.  Perhaps if you knew some of the posters.....you'd know intent.  As it stands...you do not. 

Arrogance in your last sentence dude....

Apenoot

Lilac said more Americans should wish to be more like the Dutch. Bugger he's gone now so I can't explain that to you in person. There also was no arrogance in my sentence about my points being my opinion. It's not arrogant for others than you to have an opinion.

Dude....when it comes to perception of freedom...that does not involve facts.  Sorry....

Then what does it involve? Cookies? People base their opinions around facts or what they perceive as facts.

One....I know what Lilac meant...you clearly do not.

Two....opinions can be arrogant.

Three....perception is not fact.  FACT.

One....I know what Lilac meant...you clearly do not.

Two....opinions can be arrogant.

Three....perception is not fact.  FACT.

LJS9502_basic

One: your word against mine. Just cause you think you are god doesn't mean you're right. Which is why I lament the departure of Lilac from this thread.

Two: opinions can be arrogant, but saying something is just an opinion is contrary to being arrogant. Try saying it yourself, it makes you sound less like a know-it-all

Three: perception is not fact, but perception is BASED on (perceived) facts. FACT.

One: your word against mine. Just cause you think you are god doesn't mean you're right. Which is why I lament the departure of Lilac from this thread.

Two: opinions can be arrogant, but saying something is just an opinion is contrary to being arrogant. Try saying it yourself, it makes you sound less like a know-it-all

Three: perception is not fact, but perception is BASED on (perceived) facts. FACT.

Apenoot

As to number one.....Lilacs history and the definition of the word itself belies your word.  Now who doesn't think they are wrong.  The dictionary will show you that.

Two....just because you state it's your opinion does not make it less arrogant.  Arrogance is arrogance and you have it.  I use opinion when I state an opinion.  I've used fact and logic here so it's not opinion.  Insults make you look immature.

Three...Perception does not have to be based on any facts.  Again the dictionary can be a help.  I perceive the color blue to be the best color.  That is perception....not fact.

[QUOTE="Apenoot"]

One: your word against mine. Just cause you think you are god doesn't mean you're right. Which is why I lament the departure of Lilac from this thread.

Two: opinions can be arrogant, but saying something is just an opinion is contrary to being arrogant. Try saying it yourself, it makes you sound less like a know-it-all

Three: perception is not fact, but perception is BASED on (perceived) facts. FACT.

LJS9502_basic

As to number one.....Lilacs history and the definition of the word itself belies your word.  Now who doesn't think they are wrong.  The dictionary will show you that.

Two....just because you state it's your opinion does not make it less arrogant.  Arrogance is arrogance and you have it.  I use opinion when I state an opinion.  I've used fact and logic here so it's not opinion.  Insults make you look immature.

Three...Perception does not have to be based on any facts.  Again the dictionary can be a help.  I perceive the color blue to be the best color.  That is perception....not fact.

I really have no part in this arguement but I wouldnt encourage you to preach against arrogant people when you're one of the most arrogant guys on this forum yourself

I really have no part in this arguement but I wouldnt encourage you to preach against arrogant people when you're one of the most arrogant guys on this forum yourself

jointed

:lol: I'm not preaching against it.....I'm stating that an opinion can be arrogant.  As to whether I am or not...that is a perception of me.  I'm not....but if I know something to be true I'm not going to back down because someone disagrees with me. 

As to number one.....Lilacs history and the definition of the word itself belies your word.  Now who doesn't think they are wrong.  The dictionary will show you that.

Two....just because you state it's your opinion does not make it less arrogant.  Arrogance is arrogance and you have it.  I use opinion when I state an opinion.  I've used fact and logic here so it's not opinion.  Insults make you look immature.

Three...Perception does not have to be based on any facts.  Again the dictionary can be a help.  I perceive the color blue to be the best color.  That is perception....not fact.

LJS9502_basic

One: Lilacs history has nothing to do with the fact that words can be used in multiple ways. If I say **** my teacher it doesn't mean I litteraly want to do that.

Two: Insults might make me look immature but not nearly as much as ppl who keep spamming 'you fail', 'you can't win' etc. etc. since it's like saying 'I'm superior'. That makes you a hell of a lot more arrogant than me saying 'it's my opinion'. Bugger you don't see that. You don't really use logic, you are argueing against me like a stubborn child and obviously have trouble acknowledging you might be wrong about certain points.

Three: Alright, I grant it to you. Perception does not always have to be based on facts. It should though. But I love how you make yourself -sorry- sound dumb by letting everyone know you are just talking out of your ass instead of basing your opinions on facts. :lol:  

I'm stating that an opinion can be arrogant.  LJS9502_basic

No, you said it was arrogant that I said my post was an opinion. Don't twist the subject.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I'm stating that an opinion can be arrogant.  Apenoot

No, you said it was arrogant that I said my post was an opinion. Don't twist the subject.

One: Lilacs history has nothing to do with the fact that words can be used in multiple ways. If I say **** my teacher it doesn't mean I litteraly want to do that.

Two: Insults might make me look immature but not nearly as much as ppl who keep spamming 'you fail', 'you can't win' etc. etc. since it's like saying 'I'm superior'. That makes you a hell of a lot more arrogant than me saying 'it's my opinion'. Bugger you don't see that. You don't really use logic, you are argueing against me like a stubborn child and obviously have trouble acknowledging you might be wrong about certain points.

Three: Alright, I grant it to you. Perception does not always have to be based on facts. It should though. But I love how you make yourself -sorry- sound dumb by letting everyone know you are just talking out of your ass instead of basing your opinions on facts. :lol:  

Apenoot

This is getting tedious.

One...of course his history matters...it's intent. Second, there really is NO OTHER WAY to interprete what he said.  It says what everyone else in this thread knows it to say.  You may want to read some of those posts as well.

Two...as I stated I only tell someone they fail when they KEEP GOING OVER THE SAME ARGUMENT that I have already responded to and answered.  Why do you keep dwelling on it?  I actually use it in perhaps five percent of my total posts. 

What point am I wrong about?....I've just thought perhaps you were the child seeking attention.  Since every post you say THE EXACT SAME THING.

I doubt I'm the one in this thread making themself look dumb.  You can't take two separate topics and try to combine them together.  I use facts and logic when arguing....however, perception is not facts for logic.  There is no ambibuity there.

*yawn*  Now give it up....you've made no points.  Read the posts of others that think more along the way I have in this thread.  How many actually agreed with you?

[QUOTE="Apenoot"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I'm stating that an opinion can be arrogant.  LJS9502_basic

No, you said it was arrogant that I said my post was an opinion. Don't twist the subject.

No, because you don't make sense and are attempting to twist the subject again. You said I was arrogant for saying "THAT IN MY HONEST OPINION" which is not arrogant at all. It just says something else I said is my opinion. Care to tell me what is arrogant about that?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Apenoot"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I'm stating that an opinion can be arrogant.  Apenoot

No, you said it was arrogant that I said my post was an opinion. Don't twist the subject.

No, because you don't make sense and are attempting to twist the subject again. You said I was arrogant for saying "THAT IN MY HONEST OPINION" which is not arrogant at all. It just says something else I said is my opinion. Care to tell me what is arrogant about that?

I said....opinions can be arrogant....and yours clearly was.

LJS9502_basic

Sniff, now I'm scared of going to the States in September, what if I run into you? :| I could bring some Dutch candies?

[QUOTE="Apenoot"]

One: Lilacs history has nothing to do with the fact that words can be used in multiple ways. If I say **** my teacher it doesn't mean I litteraly want to do that.

Two: Insults might make me look immature but not nearly as much as ppl who keep spamming 'you fail', 'you can't win' etc. etc. since it's like saying 'I'm superior'. That makes you a hell of a lot more arrogant than me saying 'it's my opinion'. Bugger you don't see that. You don't really use logic, you are argueing against me like a stubborn child and obviously have trouble acknowledging you might be wrong about certain points.

Three: Alright, I grant it to you. Perception does not always have to be based on facts. It should though. But I love how you make yourself -sorry- sound dumb by letting everyone know you are just talking out of your ass instead of basing your opinions on facts. :lol:  

LJS9502_basic

This is getting tedious.

One...of course his history matters...it's intent. Second, there really is NO OTHER WAY to interprete what he said.  It says what everyone else in this thread knows it to say.  You may want to read some of those posts as well.

Two...as I stated I only tell someone they fail when they KEEP GOING OVER THE SAME ARGUMENT that I have already responded to and answered.  Why do you keep dwelling on it?  I actually use it in perhaps five percent of my total posts. 

What point am I wrong about?....I've just thought perhaps you were the child seeking attention.  Since every post you say THE EXACT SAME THING.

I doubt I'm the one in this thread making themself look dumb.  You can't take two separate topics and try to combine them together.  I use facts and logic when arguing....however, perception is not facts for logic.  There is no ambibuity there.

*yawn*  Now give it up....you've made no points.  Read the posts of others that think more along the way I have in this thread.  How many actually agreed with you?

How many actually agree with me? About half... of those few who bothered to post. I'm saying the same thing over and over because you seem to be deaf and not willing to listen. Apparantly there IS another way of reading what Lilac said, since I took it another way than you. But your opinion is law, so you fail to see this. Most of your points consist of 'that's not right, my opinion is based on facts and logic, so PERIOD' without bringing in actual facts which is kinda childish imo.

LJS9502_basic

Sniff, now I'm scared of going to the States in September, what if I run into you? :| I could bring some Dutch candies?

dayzee23

I said....opinions can be arrogant....and yours clearly was.LJS9502_basic

Let me remind you. You said

Arrogance in your last sentence dudeLJS9502_basic

and my last sentence was

I merely said THAT IN MY HONEST OPINION it's sad the US doesn't look at the Netherlands when it comes down to certain things.Apenoot

So you didn't say 'opinions can be arrogant' you said it was arrogant that I have an opinion.

[QUOTE="dayzee23"]

LJS9502_basic

Sniff, now I'm scared of going to the States in September, what if I run into you? :| I could bring some Dutch candies?

LJS9502_basic

Hm well, just to make sure.. *pokes you softly in the the tummy and awaits reaction*