Noted Arizona Sheriff raids Sizzler Restaurants for hiring illegals

that problem will not go away when they are gone. they need to redue their equation. illegals dont use goverment services becuase its something to do on sunday instead of the park, they do it becuase they are poor. The jobs they have dont pay much and any of you lucky lads who are aspiring for such careers will also be poor and will also be looking to access services.

granted, you would be paying taxes but never the less the law of opportunity cost needs to be considered in that formula

SEANMCAD

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

If it wasn't more cost effective overall for the workers to be displaced, then they wouldn't be. Granted, American workers in that compete with illegals get screwed. It only drives wages down in sectors where illegals make up a fairly sizable share of the market. The point of money not recirculating here is borderline irrelevant. If the money does not recirculate here (since you claim it does not) monetary value adjusts.

LJS9502_basic

Costs of production do in fact play a factor in pricing.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

To what degree of certainty can you say that it was actually due to stimulus spending, and not mere correlation. The economy was bound to recover, and I see little evidence that shows the stimulus is in point of fact responsible for the improving conditions.

br0kenrabbit

It's the timing that leads me to believe that. Plus, a lot of people are hiring specifically because they get tax credits to do so.

Timing doesn't have me all too convinced. Recessions tend to weather out. I was actually expecting a slightly quicker recovery. The extra spending while to a degree beneficial, is really temporary spike that isn't large enough to keep the spending flowing until actual recovery. And unemployment has mildly improved. However, lot of the work gained in the most recent report was temporary work, and census work. The private job market put on 10'000 jobs or so. So there is still quite aways to go with regards to recovery.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

If it wasn't more cost effective overall for the workers to be displaced, then they wouldn't be. Granted, American workers in that compete with illegals get screwed. It only drives wages down in sectors where illegals make up a fairly sizable share of the market. The point of money not recirculating here is borderline irrelevant. If the money does not recirculate here (since you claim it does not) monetary value adjusts.

coolbeans90

Costs of production do in fact play a factor in pricing.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

To what degree of certainty can you say that it was actually due to stimulus spending, and not mere correlation. The economy was bound to recover, and I see little evidence that shows the stimulus is in point of fact responsible for the improving conditions.

coolbeans90

It's the timing that leads me to believe that. Plus, a lot of people are hiring specifically because they get tax credits to do so.

Timing doesn't have me all too convinced. Recessions tend to weather out. I was actually expecting a slightly quicker recovery. The extra spending while to a degree beneficial, is really temporary spike that isn't large enough to keep the spending flowing until actual recovery. And unemployment has mildly improved. However, lot of the work gained in the most recent report was temporary work, and census work. The private job market put on 10'000 jobs or so. So there is still quite aways to go with regards to recovery.

I believe the actual number you're looking for is 431,000. And yes, temp jobs come before perm jobs. I know back in 2000 I hired temps when things started to turn around to see if the improvement continued, and when it did I hired permanent workers. That's just the way things work.

But the important thing is that things have stabalized and are not on the downtrend anymore.

What's the big issue about arresting people who are actively breaking the law?

ugh, more immigrationrelated news.

What's the big issue about arresting people who are actively breaking the law?

sonicare

Hm good argument.. The way I see it is many of these people are desperate in my mind.. It would be alot like punishing a person who stole food because they are starving.. I just think if there is any guilty party here its the businesses that are willing to hire them illegally for slave wages specifically for greed in making a greater profit.. Thats just me of course.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

What's the big issue about arresting people who are actively breaking the law?

sSubZerOo

Hm good argument.. The way I see it is many of these people are desperate in my mind.. It would be alot like punishing a person who stole food because they are starving.. I just think if there is any guilty party here its the businesses that are willing to hire them illegally for slave wages specifically for greed in making a greater profit.. Thats just me of course.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

What's the big issue about arresting people who are actively breaking the law?

Hm good argument.. The way I see it is many of these people are desperate in my mind.. It would be alot like punishing a person who stole food because they are starving.. I just think if there is any guilty party here its the businesses that are willing to hire them illegally for slave wages specifically for greed in making a greater profit.. Thats just me of course.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

It's the timing that leads me to believe that. Plus, a lot of people are hiring specifically because they get tax credits to do so.

br0kenrabbit

Timing doesn't have me all too convinced. Recessions tend to weather out. I was actually expecting a slightly quicker recovery. The extra spending while to a degree beneficial, is really temporary spike that isn't large enough to keep the spending flowing until actual recovery. And unemployment has mildly improved. However, lot of the work gained in the most recent report was temporary work, and census work. The private job market put on 10'000 jobs or so. So there is still quite aways to go with regards to recovery.

I believe the actual number you're looking for is 431,000. And yes, temp jobs come before perm jobs. I know back in 2000 I hired temps when things started to turn around to see if the improvement continued, and when it did I hired permanent workers. That's just the way things work.

But the important thing is that things have stabalized and are not on the downtrend anymore.

431,000 is the total gain. About 411,000 of which was census workers. Source

Yeah, 20,000 gain census hiring notwithstanding. While stepping in the right direction, rather small steps so far. You probably are right about temps, but it's not quite as much of an improvement.

Agreed that we're not on a downward trend anymore. Things are looking up.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Has nothing to do with being cost effective....and more to do with increasing the profits. The services/products continue to rise in cost...they have NOT gone down.

LJS9502_basic

Costs of production do in fact play a factor in pricing.

You're assuming all other factors are held constant. Other things are likely to push up costs. If it was cheaper to build homes with legal than illegal labor, construcion companies would not hire illegals.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

What's the big issue about arresting people who are actively breaking the law?

sSubZerOo

Hm good argument.. The way I see it is many of these people are desperate in my mind.. It would be alot like punishing a person who stole food because they are starving.. I just think if there is any guilty party here its the businesses that are willing to hire them illegally for slave wages specifically for greed in making a greater profit.. Thats just me of course.

But Subzero, Mexico undoubtedly has some sort of welfare program(s), so why shouldn't Mexico take care of their own?

We have too many desperate people here who are legal citizens (be they naturalized or born here). We should take care of our own, not taking up the slack for other countries.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Costs of production do in fact play a factor in pricing.

coolbeans90

You're assuming all other factors are held constant. Other things are likely to push up costs. If it was cheaper to build homes with legal than illegal labor, construcion companies would not hire illegals.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Uh...that's not what I said. I said the services/PRODUCTS....ie....construction has become an industry hiring illegals. Costs to build homes have risen...not decreased with the cheaper workforce.

LJS9502_basic

You're assuming all other factors are held constant. Other things are likely to push up costs. If it was cheaper to build homes with legal than illegal labor, construcion companies would not hire illegals.

If you want to think that reduced costs of production aren't going to have any effect whatsoever on pricing, than that is your opinion. One I disagree with, and I'll leave on that point. Once again, I do not support illegal imigration due to security reasons as well as the fact that illegals do not pay taxes, and we should not give them preferential status over the rest of society. Realistically, reform is needed. But to say that there are not economic benefits due to increased productivity on labor per dollar spent is simply not true.