Obama has officially conceded on the healthcare bill.

good riddance

Link?Locke562

I read it in the associated press a while ago, but I can't find the story. But for proof, will this suffice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKjVEUlS2So

Well if it is true, this is a defining moment in time where ignorance in numbers has been so overpowerring it has destroyed logic and reasoning. I guess we have our friends at Fox News to thank for spreading all the misinformation and the Democratic Party for actually giving into this kind of behavior. Yes, the people comparing the president to Hitler have won, bravo America. You get to keep your overpriced healthcare and live on as one of the only developed western countries that can't support all if its citizens with basic care.

Although, I'm just hearing this news and the only source you have is some douche on youtube so I don't know how true this is.

Once again ignorance, fear, and misinformation triumph over reason, logic, and facts.

On the brightside, this is the only time where I can wish death upon all the idiots who made this happen AND actually have them die.

HMO: "Congrats Mr. Johnson on fighting for the right cause and preserving America's top-notch healthcare system. We thank you"
Johnson: "I'm just glad that I could help save our country from those eldery-killing socialists. Now, about that heart transplant I need..."
HMO: "Oh yes, about that. We consulted one of our staff physicians who came to the conclusion that you don't really need the operation, so we won't be paying for that"
Johnson: "What? I pay you guys thousands of dollars a year to cover me!"
HMO: "Indeed. BTW, your next payment is due in two weeks"
J: "Screw that, I'm getting my transplant!"
HMO: "OK, lets just look at your record and OH WOULD YA LOOK AT THAT! Looks like you forgot to tell us about that acne outbreak you had when you were 27. Well, as you know ommitting important information such as that is cause for cancellation of your polcy. Good day"
J: "Well, how are you going to get my money if you cancel me? Huh?"
HMO: "Doesn't matter, you wouldn't have lived to the next payment date anyway"

Obama actually hasn't conceded on the healthcare bill: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/obama-smerconish-intervie_n_264297.html

Considering the fact that the definition of a 3rd world country is a large gap between the rich and the poor, then it would only raise our status in the world (and our quality of care, which is severely lacking) to have a full single-payer system, which I advocate, and which the Scandinavian countries have.

Lol, wut?

The Democrats have basically said "screw the Republicans, you aren't going to cooperate anyway". That doesn't exactly sound to me like much of a concession.

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

Lol, wut?

The Democrats have basically said "screw the Republicans, you aren't going to cooperate anyway". That doesn't exactly sound to me like much of a concession.

GabuEx

You see, this is what I saw inevitably happening, not a concession. It just wouldn't make sense when the dems have the control to push legislation right now.

Lol, wut?

The Democrats have basically said "screw the Republicans, you aren't going to cooperate anyway". That doesn't exactly sound to me like much of a concession.

GabuEx

Well, it seems that the NY Times have a considerably more positive view of what the Dems are doing. Unfortunately, the White House still wants to be 'pragmatic,' even though the Republicans haven't had any pragmatic policies since Nixon. It's these 'blue-dogs' and conservative Democrats who are ruining it for the rest of us.

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

Hot-Tamale

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Lol, wut?

The Democrats have basically said "screw the Republicans, you aren't going to cooperate anyway". That doesn't exactly sound to me like much of a concession.

jazznate

You see, this is what I saw inevitably happening, not a concession. It just wouldn't make sense when the dems have the control to push legislation right now.

Quite frankly I don't blame them - the public option was already a compromise on single-payer health care, and then they compromised on that with the "co-op option", and the Republicans are still just pouting in the corner.

I'm hoping that the Democrats have finally awoken to the fact that, oh, hey, they actually won the last two elections. :P

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

Hot-Tamale

To put this in historic perspective, it took us over 100 years and the deadliest war in US history to abolish slavery and another century to allow blacks to vote. Americans are VEEEEERRRRYYYYYY slow when it comes to progress.

Well if it is true, this is a defining moment in time where ignorance in numbers has been so overpowerring it has destroyed logic and reasoning. I guess we have our friends at Fox News to thank for spreading all the misinformation and the Democratic Party for actually giving into this kind of behavior. Yes, the people comparing the president to Hitler have won, bravo America. You get to keep your overpriced healthcare and live on as one of the only developed western countries that can't support all if its citizens with basic care.

Although, I'm just hearing this news and the only source you have is some douche on youtube so I don't know how true this is.

jazznate

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

chathuranga

According to the policies of every other industrialized country on the planet, it is.

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

chathuranga

From the declaration of independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

Hot-Tamale

[QUOTE="chathuranga"][QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

gameguy6700

From the declaration of independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Okay, that was pretty good but I'll stick to my original story.

[QUOTE="jazznate"]

Well if it is true, this is a defining moment in time where ignorance in numbers has been so overpowerring it has destroyed logic and reasoning. I guess we have our friends at Fox News to thank for spreading all the misinformation and the Democratic Party for actually giving into this kind of behavior. Yes, the people comparing the president to Hitler have won, bravo America. You get to keep your overpriced healthcare and live on as one of the only developed western countries that can't support all if its citizens with basic care.

Although, I'm just hearing this news and the only source you have is some douche on youtube so I don't know how true this is.

chathuranga

The difference is that other news stations have standards and ethics. Fox News has no qualms about making stuff up, purposefully slanting facts, and purposefully injecting as much bias into a story as possible. You should have a look at their internal memos sometime, they pretty much spell out explicitly how they're going to slant the stories to deliever their message for the day. They've gone as far as to even say that they're intentionally ommitting important information and distorting facts.

[QUOTE="jazznate"]

Well if it is true, this is a defining moment in time where ignorance in numbers has been so overpowerring it has destroyed logic and reasoning. I guess we have our friends at Fox News to thank for spreading all the misinformation and the Democratic Party for actually giving into this kind of behavior. Yes, the people comparing the president to Hitler have won, bravo America. You get to keep your overpriced healthcare and live on as one of the only developed western countries that can't support all if its citizens with basic care.

Although, I'm just hearing this news and the only source you have is some douche on youtube so I don't know how true this is.

chathuranga

Are you kidding me? CNN is considered right-of-center by the world news media. So technically you're saying that the entire world (with the exceptions being splinter parties and the Austrian neo-fascist party) are against the American conservatives? Rubbish. Fox News is simply too far to thr right to categorize rationally. They must be dismissed if the U.S. wants to keep its sanity.

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

Hot-Tamale

[QUOTE="chathuranga"][QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

gameguy6700

From the declaration of independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

1. That says nothing about healthcare.

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

[QUOTE="jazznate"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Lol, wut?

The Democrats have basically said "screw the Republicans, you aren't going to cooperate anyway". That doesn't exactly sound to me like much of a concession.

GabuEx

You see, this is what I saw inevitably happening, not a concession. It just wouldn't make sense when the dems have the control to push legislation right now.

Quite frankly I don't blame them - the public option was already a compromise on single-payer health care, and then they compromised on that with the "co-op option", and the Republicans are still just pouting in the corner.

I'm hoping that the Democrats have finally awoken to the fact that, oh, hey, they actually won the last two elections. :P

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

limpbizkit818

Nor does the statement that health care is a basic right. :P

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

This is terrible. Denying the basic right of healthcare to over 50 million people is a human rights disaster, and I have lost much of the faith in my country because of this fearmongering and vitriolic nonsense. :evil:

gameguy6700

To put this in historic perspective, it took us over 100 years and the deadliest war in US history to abolish slavery and another century to allow blacks to vote. Americans are VEEEEERRRRYYYYYY slow when it comes to progress.

Yes, because every other country in the world did those things right upon their founding :roll:

During the great depression, the US was comming out of it when Roosevelt pushed through the second new deal during his second term. The new deal killed the economy all over again, erasing all the previous gains. The same thing would happen now. It's just a case of bad timing.psychobrew

Incorrect. I realize that the New Deal didn't get us all the way out of the Great Depression, as it took the war mobilization from WW2 to finish the job, but the thing you conservatives/libertarians don't get is that the market isn't rational. People's lives should trump money, and believe it or not, the New Deal vastly increased the livelihood of most Americans when it got through Congress. Sure, money was spent, but human lives are more important than money.

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="chathuranga"] How is health care a basic right?limpbizkit818

From the declaration of independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

1. That says nothing about healthcare.

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

I'd argue that an individual's life could be compromised if they didn't have access to healthcare, wouldn't you?

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]During the great depression, the US was comming out of it when Roosevelt pushed through the second new deal during his second term. The new deal killed the economy all over again, erasing all the previous gains. The same thing would happen now. It's just a case of bad timing.Hot-Tamale

Incorrect. I realize that the New Deal didn't get us all the way out of the Great Depression, as it took the war mobilization from WW2 to finish the job, but the thing you conservatives/libertarians don't get is that the market isn't rational. People's lives should trump money, and believe it or not, the New Deal vastly increased the livelihood of most Americans when it got through Congress. Sure, money was spent, but human lives are more important than money.

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="chathuranga"] How is health care a basic right?limpbizkit818

From the declaration of independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

1. That says nothing about healthcare.

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

1. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that healthcare is important to preserving a person's life

2. While you're right that the DoI isn't a legal document, it does express that our founding fathers obviously considered those qualities to be intrinsic human rights. As a result, it stands with reason that our government was designed to protect these same rights.

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

GabuEx

Nor does the statement that health care is a basic right. :P

Tis true, you got me.

I'm not even going to attempt to explain the thought process behind that one :P

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

From the declaration of independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

gameguy6700

1. That says nothing about healthcare.

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

1. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that healthcare is important to preserving a person's life

2. While you're right that the DoI isn't a legal document, it does express that our founding fathers obviously considered those qualities to be intrinsic human rights. As a result, it stands with reason that our government was designed to protect these same rights.

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]During the great depression, the US was comming out of it when Roosevelt pushed through the second new deal during his second term. The new deal killed the economy all over again, erasing all the previous gains. The same thing would happen now. It's just a case of bad timing.chathuranga

Incorrect. I realize that the New Deal didn't get us all the way out of the Great Depression, as it took the war mobilization from WW2 to finish the job, but the thing you conservatives/libertarians don't get is that the market isn't rational. People's lives should trump money, and believe it or not, the New Deal vastly increased the livelihood of most Americans when it got through Congress. Sure, money was spent, but human lives are more important than money.

I don't see your rationale. Wasn't it Hamilton who said that government debt gives us future economic growth? So are you implying that you would rather have millions of Americans die before spending 39 billion on the entirety of the New Deal?

FOX NEWS TO THE RESCUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

limpbizkit818

Nor does the statement that health care is a basic right. :P

Tis true, you got me.

I'm not even going to attempt to explain the thought process behind that one :P

How does an individual's livelihood not relate directly to healthcare? I don't see your logic.

Gosh, some of the ignorance in this thread is flat our frightening. Those of you who are basically saying that the "right wing Fox news conspiracy" and "our president is hitler and "50 million americans are gonna die now" are getting old.

IT IS GOOD IF THIS FAILS!!!!!!

Why? Because there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with health care in this country in general, and changing it to a socialist system will not help. It needs to be redefined and rebuilt from the ground up. Am I against those 50 million without health care getting it - F no, I'm not a fool. But adopting the health care system the way he is describing without fixing the base problem WILL FIX nothing.

Case and point. The malpractice issue. Doctors and surgeons are refusing to do life saving surgeries and procedures all over the country for fear of being sued. Solution. Nothing. Why are health care prices so high, this is one of many reasons.

Fix the problems, don't give drugs to tame the symptoms. That's what morons do.

[QUOTE="chathuranga"][QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

Incorrect. I realize that the New Deal didn't get us all the way out of the Great Depression, as it took the war mobilization from WW2 to finish the job, but the thing you conservatives/libertarians don't get is that the market isn't rational. People's lives should trump money, and believe it or not, the New Deal vastly increased the livelihood of most Americans when it got through Congress. Sure, money was spent, but human lives are more important than money.

Hot-Tamale

I don't see your rationale. Wasn't it Hamilton who said that government debt gives us future economic growth? So are you implying that you would rather have millions of Americans die before spending 39 billion on the entirety of the New Deal?

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

From the declaration of independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

gameguy6700

1. That says nothing about healthcare.

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

1. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that healthcare is important to preserving a person's life

2. While you're right that the DoI isn't a legal document, it does express that our founding fathers obviously considered those qualities to be intrinsic human rights. As a result, it stands with reason that our government was designed to protect these same rights.

Lol, wut?

The Democrats have basically said "screw the Republicans, you aren't going to cooperate anyway". That doesn't exactly sound to me like much of a concession.

GabuEx

Further, Mr. Grassley said this week that he would vote against a bill unless it had wide support from Republicans, even if it included all the provisions he wanted. "I am negotiating for Republicans," he told MSNBC.

Umm...wtf? Party over policy? :roll:

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

[QUOTE="chathuranga"] Money that we don't have.chathuranga

I don't see your rationale. Wasn't it Hamilton who said that government debt gives us future economic growth? So are you implying that you would rather have millions of Americans die before spending 39 billion on the entirety of the New Deal?

Since when does not having money stop a country from funding its expenditure?

U.S. has major health probs. -_-

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

[QUOTE="chathuranga"] Money that we don't have.chathuranga

I don't see your rationale. Wasn't it Hamilton who said that government debt gives us future economic growth? So are you implying that you would rather have millions of Americans die before spending 39 billion on the entirety of the New Deal?

It's an investment for the future. Did you know that Britan pays 40% per person of what is paid in the U.S. This will save money in the long run, and since healthcare costs are projected to literally double in the next 10 years, SOMETHING has to be done. Again, this is a human rights issue. I don't want to see people dying in the streets because they can't afford healthcare that costs $100,000 a year. It's not humane.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Lol, wut?

The Democrats have basically said "screw the Republicans, you aren't going to cooperate anyway". That doesn't exactly sound to me like much of a concession.

br0kenrabbit

Further, Mr. Grassley said this week that he would vote against a bill unless it had wide support from Republicans, even if it included all the provisions he wanted. "I am negotiating for Republicans," he told MSNBC.

Umm...wtf? Party over policy? :roll:

Like I said, I can't say I blame the Democrats for finally deciding to give them the middle finger. :P

[QUOTE="chathuranga"][QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

Incorrect. I realize that the New Deal didn't get us all the way out of the Great Depression, as it took the war mobilization from WW2 to finish the job, but the thing you conservatives/libertarians don't get is that the market isn't rational. People's lives should trump money, and believe it or not, the New Deal vastly increased the livelihood of most Americans when it got through Congress. Sure, money was spent, but human lives are more important than money.

Hot-Tamale

I don't see your rationale. Wasn't it Hamilton who said that government debt gives us future economic growth? So are you implying that you would rather have millions of Americans die before spending 39 billion on the entirety of the New Deal?

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

1. That says nothing about healthcare.

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

limpbizkit818

[QUOTE="chathuranga"][QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

I don't see your rationale. Wasn't it Hamilton who said that government debt gives us future economic growth? So are you implying that you would rather have millions of Americans die before spending 39 billion on the entirety of the New Deal?

Hot-Tamale

It's an investment for the future. Did you know that Britan pays 40% per person of what is paid in the U.S. This will save money in the long run, and since healthcare costs are projected to literally double in the next 10 years, SOMETHING has to be done. Again, this is a human rights issue. I don't want to see people dying in the streets because they can't afford healthcare that costs $100,000 a year. It's not humane.

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

1. That says nothing about healthcare.

2. The declaration has NOTHING to do with the law.

chathuranga

1. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that healthcare is important to preserving a person's life

2. While you're right that the DoI isn't a legal document, it does express that our founding fathers obviously considered those qualities to be intrinsic human rights. As a result, it stands with reason that our government was designed to protect these same rights.

It's a well known fact that the founding fathers did want to abolish slavery from the start, but they let the issue slide since they knew it was far too divisive of a topic at the time and would have only impeded the formation of the new country. It's not like their concerns were ill-founded either. Look at what happened nearly 90 years later when the political climate did start to move toward abolition.

BTW, sorry for the double post, but GS doesn't let me put more than one quote tree in a post for some reason. If I try to do it then half of my post disappears.

[QUOTE="chathuranga"][QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

I don't see your rationale. Wasn't it Hamilton who said that government debt gives us future economic growth? So are you implying that you would rather have millions of Americans die before spending 39 billion on the entirety of the New Deal?

Hot-Tamale

It's an investment for the future. Did you know that Britan pays 40% per person of what is paid in the U.S. This will save money in the long run, and since healthcare costs are projected to literally double in the next 10 years, SOMETHING has to be done. Again, this is a human rights issue. I don't want to see people dying in the streets because they can't afford healthcare that costs $100,000 a year. It's not humane.

:lol:

Of course it's going to save money, just like Medicare and Medicaid.