Obama? Really?

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.AmyMizuno

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

completely unfounded opinion. Republicans tend to do economic AND social good. Do you even know what a republican means? I suggest doing a simple english look up on wikipedia. More government = more bs

More government? The Republicans have expanded the government as well as the federal deficit more than the Democrats. Historically, the Democrats have been the more fiscally responsible of the two parties. Just look at the balooning US Debt. Look at the declining economy and the increasing inflation. If your neoconservative dogma is so wonderful, how come our economy is in peril?

neoconservatives typically have a lot of roots in socialism, and tend to be more social conservatives rather than economic. Again Im not neoconservative. The best thing to do is to eliminate as many taxes as possible and let the market do its thing

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

how exactly was woodrow wilson a good president? he was a progressive leftist who loved socialism especially the socialism that mussolini brought to the table

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20271026

jointed

:lol: That has got to be one of the most moronic "articles" I've ever read. The only socialistic aspect of fascism and National Socialism is the strive towards a national unity.

fascism has many faces. He brings up the point that Fascism has more to do with typical socialism. But the only real difference between Nazism and typical socialism is the word National. Which can be interchangeable with the word Socialized. For example Nationalized Healthcare means the same as Socialized.

however, most fascists come from the far left. Mussolini, Hitler Stalin, Lenin

You do know that Fascism/Nazism and Socialism are two COMPLETELY different ideologies, right? Everyone who has studied basic sociology knows this. The two ideologies' fundamental values are in direct conflict with each other.

National Socialism = Socialism with nationalism. Same thing but with nationalism. Right wing entails capitalism and small government (at least in america). Hitler hated capitalism and obviously had big government

Fascism and socialism are the same exact thing

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.Trashface

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]You are wrong about him not accomplishing anything in the Senate.its_me_

No. He's not wrong.

He's actually introduced and co-sponsored a suprisingly large amount of bills for his short time in the Senate that cover issues ranging from bills on Energy and improved healthcare for 9/11 victims, as well as on Iran, poverty, and nuclear proliferation. This notion that he's done nothing in the Senate is a completley unfounded accusation.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

how exactly was woodrow wilson a good president? he was a progressive leftist who loved socialism especially the socialism that mussolini brought to the table

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20271026

H8sMikeMoore

:lol: That has got to be one of the most moronic "articles" I've ever read. The only socialistic aspect of fascism and National Socialism is the strive towards a national unity.

fascism has many faces. He brings up the point that Fascism has more to do with typical socialism. But the only real difference between Nazism and typical socialism is the word National. Which can be interchangeable with the word Socialized. For example Nationalized Healthcare means the same as Socialized.

however, most fascists come from the far left. Mussolini, Hitler Stalin, Lenin

You do know that Fascism/Nazism and Socialism are two COMPLETELY different ideologies, right? Everyone who has studied basic sociology knows this. The two ideologies' fundamental values are in direct conflict with each other.

National Socialism = Socialism with nationalism. Same thing but with nationalism. Right wing entails capitalism and small government (at least in america). Hitler hated capitalism and obviously had big government

Fascism and socialism are the same exact thing

No, it's not that simple...are you American by any chance?

Seriously, do you even know what the two ideologies encompasses?

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

And to that, I would reply that every banker claims to be a capitalist until their bank fails and they want to be bailed out by the taxpayer and the federal reserve. You only have to look as far as the Bear Stearns buyout.

The banks are playing a game of 'Heads, I win; Tails, you lose" with the American people. Neoconservativism is hardly capitalism. It is socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the poor. As a result, I don't buy your neoconservative propoganda.

AmyMizuno

exactly, and you're getting into a much deeper issue:government regulation and how it destroys competition which would otherwise eliminate bad business including banks. The government subsidized a bank that would have been put out of business because of giving risky loans that they shouldnt have. A free market is good for consumers as it gets rid of the bad. Actually the internet works the same way but nobody has a problem with this for some reason

I am not a neoconservative. Why on earth would you assume I am? I clearly present libertarian view points.

The fiscal libertarians would argue that they don't care what others do, as long as it isn't infringing upon others' rights. I would argue that the mortgage lenders have infringed upon the "persuit of happiness" clause in the constitution. Their terrible lending practices have become so bad, that they could sink the American economy. How's that for economic freedom?

H8s I agree with you, but the republican party isn't the good ol' repubs of old, a vote for conservatism is no longer a vote for ... well conservatism.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.allnamestaken

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

Socialized healthcare will be a disaster. It has been for other countries. You won't be able to select your own doctor. You'll have to go to whatever doctor the government wants. The budget will be smaller. the care quality will be horrible.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

And to that, I would reply that every banker claims to be a capitalist until their bank fails and they want to be bailed out by the taxpayer and the federal reserve. You only have to look as far as the Bear Stearns buyout.

The banks are playing a game of 'Heads, I win; Tails, you lose" with the American people. Neoconservativism is hardly capitalism. It is socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the poor. As a result, I don't buy your neoconservative propoganda.

AmyMizuno

exactly, and you're getting into a much deeper issue:government regulation and how it destroys competition which would otherwise eliminate bad business including banks. The government subsidized a bank that would have been put out of business because of giving risky loans that they shouldnt have. A free market is good for consumers as it gets rid of the bad. Actually the internet works the same way but nobody has a problem with this for some reason

I am not a neoconservative. Why on earth would you assume I am? I clearly present libertarian view points.

The fiscal libertarians would argue that they don't care what others do, as long as it isn't infringing upon others' rights. I would argue that the mortgage lenders have infringed upon the "persuit of happiness" clause in the constitution. Their terrible lending practices have become so bad, that they could sink the American economy. How's that for economic freedom?

You were right though when you asked him if he knows what those two ideologies encompass. Facism and Socialism are similar but have several very large differences. Just because they were both the enemy in WW2 does not make them the same.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

how exactly was woodrow wilson a good president? he was a progressive leftist who loved socialism especially the socialism that mussolini brought to the table

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20271026

jointed

:lol: That has got to be one of the most moronic "articles" I've ever read. The only socialistic aspect of fascism and National Socialism is the strive towards a national unity.

fascism has many faces. He brings up the point that Fascism has more to do with typical socialism. But the only real difference between Nazism and typical socialism is the word National. Which can be interchangeable with the word Socialized. For example Nationalized Healthcare means the same as Socialized.

however, most fascists come from the far left. Mussolini, Hitler Stalin, Lenin

You do know that Fascism/Nazism and Socialism are two COMPLETELY different ideologies, right? Everyone who has studied basic sociology knows this. The two ideologies' fundamental values are in direct conflict with each other.

National Socialism = Socialism with nationalism. Same thing but with nationalism. Right wing entails capitalism and small government (at least in america). Hitler hated capitalism and obviously had big government

Fascism and socialism are the same exact thing

No, it's not that simple...are you American by any chance?

Seriously, do you even know what the two ideologies encompasses?

Fascism implies submissiveness to the state or society as a whole, something socialism is all about as well but says its about "common good" which hillary has blatantly admitted. Shes a progressivist which is a direct road to socialism, which as far as im concerned is fascism as you have no way to succeed in life and the government controls everything

Mussolini was a socialist, who was also a fascist.

I dont like Obama's stand on gun control, FP, taxes and health care.

Thats why im voting McCain.

[QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.Trashface

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

Socialized healthcare will be a disaster. It has been for other countries. You won't be able to select your own doctor. You'll have to go to whatever doctor the government wants. The budget will be smaller. the care quality will be horrible.

Trash this post shows how ignorant you are on the whole issue. Let's take Canada for example.

In Canada patients select their own family doctor.

In Canada regardless of what anyone tells you universal health care is NOT a disaster. Wait times are really only long for non-emergency procedures, trust me if you have a serious injury you will not be asked to wait in a waiting room.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.allnamestaken

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

On the contrary, how do you think Obama is going to pay for all this "change"? Yea...increasing taxes...forcing private citizens to pay for everyone else when it comes to healthcare, retirement, college, the environment, welfare. It's sick. They won't even renew the Bush tax cuts, which helped the economy. We're going to be paying off half of our paycheck soon. If you trust a government who robs you of your own earned income, so they can turn around and use it to pay for your and other peoples' doctor's appointments, that's wonderful...it shows how disgustingly dependent you are, and how much of a sense of entitlement you have. I'd prefer to keep my money, and pay for things when I need to or want to...since, after all, I did work for it, and it doesn't belong to anyone else.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

And to that, I would reply that every banker claims to be a capitalist until their bank fails and they want to be bailed out by the taxpayer and the federal reserve. You only have to look as far as the Bear Stearns buyout.

The banks are playing a game of 'Heads, I win; Tails, you lose" with the American people. Neoconservativism is hardly capitalism. It is socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the poor. As a result, I don't buy your neoconservative propoganda.

AmyMizuno

exactly, and you're getting into a much deeper issue:government regulation and how it destroys competition which would otherwise eliminate bad business including banks. The government subsidized a bank that would have been put out of business because of giving risky loans that they shouldnt have. A free market is good for consumers as it gets rid of the bad. Actually the internet works the same way but nobody has a problem with this for some reason

I am not a neoconservative. Why on earth would you assume I am? I clearly present libertarian view points.

The fiscal libertarians would argue that they don't care what others do, as long as it isn't infringing upon others' rights. I would argue that the mortgage lenders have infringed upon the "persuit of happiness" clause in the constitution. Their terrible lending practices have become so bad, that they could sink the American economy. How's that for economic freedom?

government regulation is not good for the economy or consumers.

the housing crisis is a result of the government bailing out banks, which they do to this day and it continues. Bad banks should close and shouldnt be giving out so many loans.

You dont need to say fiscal libertarians because libertarianism implies economics. They have not infringed on any rights, theyre just simply morons.

If the bad banks had the threat of closing, they wouldnt be so hasty with bad loans.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.allnamestaken

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

Socialized healthcare will be a disaster. It has been for other countries. You won't be able to select your own doctor. You'll have to go to whatever doctor the government wants. The budget will be smaller. the care quality will be horrible.

Trash this post shows how ignorant you are on the whole issue. Let's take Canada for example.

In Canada patients select their own family doctor.

In Canada regardless of what anyone tells you universal health care is NOT a disaster. Wait times are really only long for non-emergency procedures, trust me if you have a serious injury you will not be asked to wait in a waiting room.

If you weren't ignorant on the issue, you'd know socialized healthcare has been a failure and thatthe Canadians you type about are opting for American healthcare proceedures.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.allnamestaken

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

Socialized healthcare will be a disaster. It has been for other countries. You won't be able to select your own doctor. You'll have to go to whatever doctor the government wants. The budget will be smaller. the care quality will be horrible.

Trash this post shows how ignorant you are on the whole issue. Let's take Canada for example.

In Canada patients select their own family doctor.

In Canada regardless of what anyone tells you universal health care is NOT a disaster. Wait times are really only long for non-emergency procedures, trust me if you have a serious injury you will not be asked to wait in a waiting room.

Guess how many people Canada has? Yea, 33 million. The United States has 320 million. And in fact, NO country with socialized healthcare has even 1/3 the population of the United States. it is going to fail.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

how exactly was woodrow wilson a good president? he was a progressive leftist who loved socialism especially the socialism that mussolini brought to the table

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20271026

H8sMikeMoore

:lol: That has got to be one of the most moronic "articles" I've ever read. The only socialistic aspect of fascism and National Socialism is the strive towards a national unity.

fascism has many faces. He brings up the point that Fascism has more to do with typical socialism. But the only real difference between Nazism and typical socialism is the word National. Which can be interchangeable with the word Socialized. For example Nationalized Healthcare means the same as Socialized.

however, most fascists come from the far left. Mussolini, Hitler Stalin, Lenin

You do know that Fascism/Nazism and Socialism are two COMPLETELY different ideologies, right? Everyone who has studied basic sociology knows this. The two ideologies' fundamental values are in direct conflict with each other.

National Socialism = Socialism with nationalism. Same thing but with nationalism. Right wing entails capitalism and small government (at least in america). Hitler hated capitalism and obviously had big government

Fascism and socialism are the same exact thing

No, it's not that simple...are you American by any chance?

Seriously, do you even know what the two ideologies encompasses?

Fascism implies submissiveness to the state or society as a whole, something socialism is all about as well but says its about "common good" which hillary has blatantly admitted. Shes a progressivist which is a direct road to socialism, which as far as im concerned is fascism as you have no way to succeed in life and the government controls everything

Mussolini was a socialist, who was also a fascist.

Fascism implies that the nation state is the highest authority on every field and socialism implies that all men are created equal and that class differences should therefore be eradicated. I suggest you read and understand both ideologies fundamental principles before you make such inept arguments next time. Your superficial perspective would probably make this hard for you though...

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.allnamestaken

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

Socialized healthcare will be a disaster. It has been for other countries. You won't be able to select your own doctor. You'll have to go to whatever doctor the government wants. The budget will be smaller. the care quality will be horrible.

Trash this post shows how ignorant you are on the whole issue. Let's take Canada for example.

In Canada patients select their own family doctor.

In Canada regardless of what anyone tells you universal health care is NOT a disaster. Wait times are really only long for non-emergency procedures, trust me if you have a serious injury you will not be asked to wait in a waiting room.

actually universal healthcare is a pretty ugly thing. Canadians go through massive hassle to get a family doctor. Many private doctors (which is illegal) get a ton of business because canadians hate their system. Look up "sick in america" on youtube its John Stossel vs Michael Moore on this very issue. You will change your beliefs after watching it

an injury might not have a wait time, but disease certainly does. Watch the video, if you want me to ill even link you to it.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

how exactly was woodrow wilson a good president? he was a progressive leftist who loved socialism especially the socialism that mussolini brought to the table

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20271026

jointed

:lol: That has got to be one of the most moronic "articles" I've ever read. The only socialistic aspect of fascism and National Socialism is the strive towards a national unity.

fascism has many faces. He brings up the point that Fascism has more to do with typical socialism. But the only real difference between Nazism and typical socialism is the word National. Which can be interchangeable with the word Socialized. For example Nationalized Healthcare means the same as Socialized.

however, most fascists come from the far left. Mussolini, Hitler Stalin, Lenin

You do know that Fascism/Nazism and Socialism are two COMPLETELY different ideologies, right? Everyone who has studied basic sociology knows this. The two ideologies' fundamental values are in direct conflict with each other.

National Socialism = Socialism with nationalism. Same thing but with nationalism. Right wing entails capitalism and small government (at least in america). Hitler hated capitalism and obviously had big government

Fascism and socialism are the same exact thing

No, it's not that simple...are you American by any chance?

Seriously, do you even know what the two ideologies encompasses?

Fascism implies submissiveness to the state or society as a whole, something socialism is all about as well but says its about "common good" which hillary has blatantly admitted. Shes a progressivist which is a direct road to socialism, which as far as im concerned is fascism as you have no way to succeed in life and the government controls everything

Mussolini was a socialist, who was also a fascist.

Fascism implies that the nation state is the highest authority on every field and socialism implies that all men are created equal and that class differences should therefore be eradicated. I suggest you read and understand both ideologies fundamental principles before you make such inept arguments next time. Your superficial perspective would probably make this hard for you though...

actually in a socialist state you would have people being very subordinate to the state. Which is why socialism is flawed in and of its self. In socialist countries, people are "created equal" under the state. Look at venesuala (i know i spelled that wrong) they have television shows that go against Hugo, and he shuts them down. Thats pretty equal and free.

[QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.its_me_

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

On the contrary, how do you think Obama is going to pay for all this "change"? Yea...increasing taxes...forcing private citizens to pay for everyone else when it comes to healthcare, retirement, college, the environment, welfare. It's sick. They won't even renew the Bush tax cuts, which helped the economy. We're going to be paying off half of our paycheck soon. If you trust a government who robs you of your own earned income, so they can turn around and use it to pay for your and other peoples' doctor's appointments, that's wonderful...it shows how disgustingly dependent you are, and how much of a sense of entitlement you have. I'd prefer to keep my money, and pay for things when I need to or want to...since, after all, I did work for it, and it doesn't belong to anyone else.

Yes, thankyou, I understand the basics of taxes. Which of Obama's policies will be making us tax payers pay out the nose? Maybe the end of the Iraq war? Yes, universal health care will be expensive, how much exactly I don't know and yes, the wealthy will have to have their recent tax cut repealed, but they were doing fine financially before it trust me.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

If you weren't ignorant on the issue, you'd know socialized healthcare has been a failure and thatthe Canadians you type about are opting for American healthcare proceedures.

AmyMizuno

I dont recall saying that, but I agree with the quote box. And Rush isnt exactly stupid either. Its not republicans that did that, as any bill has to pass congress which has democrats in it as well. Canadian medicines dont benefit america

[QUOTE="its_me_"]

Guess how many people Canada has? Yea, 33 million. The United States has 320 million. And in fact, NO country with socialized healthcare has even 1/3 the population of the United States. it is going to fail.

AmyMizuno

Government spending is false stimulus of the economy that eventually causes heavy rates of inflation. Economic sandcastles always fall.

actually social security has been a disaster. Which is why its best to privitize it. And thats why republicans want it privitized because its just more money TO the government, not money FOR your retirement. Its not just republicans, its the entire government but the democrats raise taxes and use more of it.

[QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.H8sMikeMoore

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

Socialized healthcare will be a disaster. It has been for other countries. You won't be able to select your own doctor. You'll have to go to whatever doctor the government wants. The budget will be smaller. the care quality will be horrible.

Trash this post shows how ignorant you are on the whole issue. Let's take Canada for example.

In Canada patients select their own family doctor.

In Canada regardless of what anyone tells you universal health care is NOT a disaster. Wait times are really only long for non-emergency procedures, trust me if you have a serious injury you will not be asked to wait in a waiting room.

actually universal healthcare is a pretty ugly thing. Canadians go through massive hassle to get a family doctor. Many private doctors (which is illegal) get a ton of business because canadians hate their system. Look up "sick in america" on youtube its John Stossel vs Michael Moore on this very issue. You will change your beliefs after watching it

an injury might not have a wait time, but disease certainly does. Watch the video, if you want me to ill even link you to it.

Define disease, and sure I'd love a link. And I'll fill you in on how much Canadian's hate their health care system.

Recently the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) held a poll to determine who the people thought was the greatest canadian of all time. In a cross country vote Tommy Douglas the creator of universal health care was selected as number 1.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

If you weren't ignorant on the issue, you'd know socialized healthcare has been a failure and thatthe Canadians you type about are opting for American healthcare proceedures.

AmyMizuno

I don't listen to Rush. Nice ignorant assumption though. Yes, I know Americans go up there for cheap medicine. If you reread slowly, you may notice I typed healthcare"proceedures" as in surgeries and such. And aslso, you can get generic medicine in America currently.

[QUOTE="Nwordjohn"]I find it hilarious that people still buy into the whole "Republican vs Democrat" show that the politicians put on. There is no difference, they are two sides of a coin. Most of the cadidates have the same policies and work for the same people. You want to know who is really running the country? Look at who their advisors and campaign backers are. Each one of them is loaded with lobbiests and soft money backers. America hasn't been in the hands of the voters for about the past twenty years now.

So go ahead and waste time debating which puppet should become the next muppet. They're still as controlled and crooked as each past president. Ron Paul was the only hope because he was the only person who had actual policies dedicated to bringing America back to its conservative (Not neo-con) roots.

He wanted to abolish the Federal Reserve (A major problem in America's declining economy due to the fact that they solve money problems by printing more money which raises inflation). He wanted to close down all of America's international military bases, which would improve your national image greatly by making it look like you're not the next Empire. He wanted to abolish income tax, which would work as he wanted to limit big government. He wanted to return to the gold standard so your dollar would finally be worth something instead of running on the fiat money system.

What happened to him? A complete media white wash fueled by hit pieces accusing him of racism. He was your last hope, and you guys blew it.
AmyMizuno

I would have formerly supported Ron Paul had it not been for his fiscal libertarianism, which is one of the reasons we're having the economic problems we're facing today.

Actually the real reason your economy is in complete shambles right now is because of the Federal Reserve System. Does anyone do any reading on that? Your money is owned by a private bank. The federal reserve system is as much a government agency as fed ex. Its just a name. Your economy is based off of a fiat money system with no real backing, this all started in 1913. Your economy is going to hell because another depression is being engineered. As a matter of fact according to the CIA world fact book online, the US is actually the poorest country in the world right now. According to its national debt that is.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

how exactly was woodrow wilson a good president? he was a progressive leftist who loved socialism especially the socialism that mussolini brought to the table

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20271026

H8sMikeMoore

:lol: That has got to be one of the most moronic "articles" I've ever read. The only socialistic aspect of fascism and National Socialism is the strive towards a national unity.

fascism has many faces. He brings up the point that Fascism has more to do with typical socialism. But the only real difference between Nazism and typical socialism is the word National. Which can be interchangeable with the word Socialized. For example Nationalized Healthcare means the same as Socialized.

however, most fascists come from the far left. Mussolini, Hitler Stalin, Lenin

You do know that Fascism/Nazism and Socialism are two COMPLETELY different ideologies, right? Everyone who has studied basic sociology knows this. The two ideologies' fundamental values are in direct conflict with each other.

National Socialism = Socialism with nationalism. Same thing but with nationalism. Right wing entails capitalism and small government (at least in america). Hitler hated capitalism and obviously had big government

Fascism and socialism are the same exact thing

No, it's not that simple...are you American by any chance?

Seriously, do you even know what the two ideologies encompasses?

Fascism implies submissiveness to the state or society as a whole, something socialism is all about as well but says its about "common good" which hillary has blatantly admitted. Shes a progressivist which is a direct road to socialism, which as far as im concerned is fascism as you have no way to succeed in life and the government controls everything

Mussolini was a socialist, who was also a fascist.

Fascism implies that the nation state is the highest authority on every field and socialism implies that all men are created equal and that class differences should therefore be eradicated. I suggest you read and understand both ideologies fundamental principles before you make such inept arguments next time. Your superficial perspective would probably make this hard for you though...

actually in a socialist state you would have people being very subordinate to the state. Which is why socialism is flawed in and of its self. In socialist countries, people are "created equal" under the state. Look at venesuala (i know i spelled that wrong) they have television shows that go against Hugo, and he shuts them down. Thats pretty equal and free.

Socialism does not = totalitarianism :roll:

I dont see why the pastor quotes hurt him, every candidate has supporters that are crazy. and since when cant we complain about this country, why cant he say God damn America ... I dont see the big deal. Who cares if he is a practicing Muslim, I see as a good thing rather than a negative, if u see it as a negative than you are the ignorant one not Obama.Cesb02

You see no problem with a Presidential candidate sitting in a church week after week listening to a Pastor slamming the country he wants to run? That would be like a democratic candidate attending every recording of the Drudge report in silent agreement.

The reasons people have to vote for this man seem to be that he speaks of hope and change, he's young, and he's a good speaker. To me, these are not good enough reasons to elect someone President. He's accomplished nothing in the Senate, he has no leadership experience, and he hasn't gone into detail about how he would bring this change that he keeps speaking of.

Aside from these things, there are other things that make me very uneasy about him being elected. I have no problem with a black President, although he has made his race an issue.

Here are some quotes from one of his books:

From 'Dreams of My Father',
"I CEASED TO ADVERTISE MY MOTHER'S RACE AT THE AGE OF12 OR 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

From Dreams of My Father, " I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".

From 'Dreams of my Father', "The emotion between the races could never be pure..... the THE OTHER RACE (WHITE) WOULD ALWAYS REMAIN JUST THAT: MENACING, ALIEN AND APART"

From Dreams Of My Father, "never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. IT WAS INTO MY FATHER'S IMAGE , THE BLACK MAN, THE SON OF AFRICA, THAT I'D PACKED ALL THE ATTRIBUTES I SOUGHT IN MYSELF.

From Dreams Of My Father:
"THAT HATE HADN'T GONE AWAY," he wrote, BLAMING WHITE PEOPLE,- SOME CRUEL, SOME IGNORANT, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."

If these quotes had been made by a white candidate, and the racial roles in the quotes were reversed, they would have been ripped to pieces and labeled a racist. This cannot be denied. The book seems to be about him denying the known maternal heritage (white) and embrace the heritage of his father (black) who had abandoned him.

Also, his Pastor repeatedly, literally cursed America spouting "G D America!! G D America!!" Obama responded by saying that he could no more disown his Pastor than his white Grandmother, which is just idiocy. You can select Pastors, you cannot select Grandmothers.

Also, his wife spoke recently saying that for the first time in her life, she's proud to be an American. She's 40 something. So she's never been proud in her entire life until now?

As for his recent statement that rural Americans cling to religion and guns because they're bitter towards people with more money, it's ignorance. I'm in the lower economic bracket and I understand that I could have finished college if I had put forth the effort. I'm responsible for my economic situation just like people with more money than I worked for their money. I will not be pandered to.

Lastly, Obama was indeed a practicing Muslim. He went to a Catholic school where non Catholic children were also accepted. this is fact. Everything I have typed is fact. Take the time and research.

Once more, are there any good reasons to vote for this person? I see plenty of reasons not to vote for him.

Responses such as "He's better than Bush" are irrelevant because we're talking about electing our NEXT leader.

Responses such as "Well he'll be better than Hilary and McCain won't be accepted because, 1. you don't have to vote at all, and 2. we're talking about reasons to vote for Obama and reasons not to.

Trashface

the man has a soul thank god that you finally get a candidate that looks at injustices and wants to make them rite.

Why shouldnt he be allowed to make remarks his race has endured much hate and is still doing so why cant he be a little angry about it.

You would rather have hillary a constant liar, "im against the war" even though she voted to go into it and "ive had experience under sniper fire in bosnia" when it was shown she had done no such thing and then the very next few days she said "oh it was a slip of tongue...", what makes you think she wont come out with a load of **** the next day after shes elected.

And MCain seriously why any American would vote for this man is beyond me your going into a ressesion and your going to vote for an candidate thats not only is going to waste more of your money in the war for say "100 years" he also has admitted he has very little knowledge of how the economy works.

[QUOTE="Cesb02"]I dont see why the pastor quotes hurt him, every candidate has supporters that are crazy. and since when cant we complain about this country, why cant he say God damn America ... I dont see the big deal. Who cares if he is a practicing Muslim, I see as a good thing rather than a negative, if u see it as a negative than you are the ignorant one not Obama.AmyMizuno

I've got three!

The federal reserve prints off money and loans it to the government with a tax on it. This tax is passed along to the citizens in the form of your income tax. Therefore you are in perpetual debt and inflation, as the rich get rich and the middle ****foots the bill.

[QUOTE="Trashface"]

The reasons people have to vote for this man seem to be that he speaks of hope and change, he's young, and he's a good speaker. To me, these are not good enough reasons to elect someone President. He's accomplished nothing in the Senate, he has no leadership experience, and he hasn't gone into detail about how he would bring this change that he keeps speaking of.

Aside from these things, there are other things that make me very uneasy about him being elected. I have no problem with a black President, although he has made his race an issue.

Here are some quotes from one of his books:

From 'Dreams of My Father',
"I CEASED TO ADVERTISE MY MOTHER'S RACE AT THE AGE OF12 OR 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

From Dreams of My Father, " I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".

From 'Dreams of my Father', "The emotion between the races could never be pure..... the THE OTHER RACE (WHITE) WOULD ALWAYS REMAIN JUST THAT: MENACING, ALIEN AND APART"

From Dreams Of My Father, "never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. IT WAS INTO MY FATHER'S IMAGE , THE BLACK MAN, THE SON OF AFRICA, THAT I'D PACKED ALL THE ATTRIBUTES I SOUGHT IN MYSELF.

From Dreams Of My Father:
"THAT HATE HADN'T GONE AWAY," he wrote, BLAMING WHITE PEOPLE,- SOME CRUEL, SOME IGNORANT, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."

If these quotes had been made by a white candidate, and the racial roles in the quotes were reversed, they would have been ripped to pieces and labeled a racist. This cannot be denied. The book seems to be about him denying the known maternal heritage (white) and embrace the heritage of his father (black) who had abandoned him.

Also, his Pastor repeatedly, literally cursed America spouting "G D America!! G D America!!" Obama responded by saying that he could no more disown his Pastor than his white Grandmother, which is just idiocy. You can select Pastors, you cannot select Grandmothers.

Also, his wife spoke recently saying that for the first time in her life, she's proud to be an American. She's 40 something. So she's never been proud in her entire life until now?

As for his recent statement that rural Americans cling to religion and guns because they're bitter towards people with more money, it's ignorance. I'm in the lower economic bracket and I understand that I could have finished college if I had put forth the effort. I'm responsible for my economic situation just like people with more money than I worked for their money. I will not be pandered to.

Lastly, Obama was indeed a practicing Muslim. He went to a Catholic school where non Catholic children were also accepted. this is fact. Everything I have typed is fact. Take the time and research.

Once more, are there any good reasons to vote for this person? I see plenty of reasons not to vote for him.

Responses such as "He's better than Bush" are irrelevant because we're talking about electing our NEXT leader.

Responses such as "Well he'll be better than Hilary and McCain won't be accepted because, 1. you don't have to vote at all, and 2. we're talking about reasons to vote for Obama and reasons not to.

hurley_house

the man has a soul thank god that you finally get a candidate that looks at injustices and wants to make them rite.

Why shouldnt he be allowed to make remarks his race has endured much hate and is still doing so why cant he be a little angry about it.

You would rather have hillary a constant liar, "im against the war" even though she voted to go into it and "ive had experience under sniper fire in bosnia" when it was shown she had done no such thing and then the very next few days she said "oh it was a slip of tongue...", what makes you think she wont come out with a load of **** the next day after shes elected.

And MCain seriously why any American would vote for this man is beyond me your going into a ressesion and your going to vote for an candidate thats not only is going to waste more of your money in the war for say "100 years" he also has admitted he has very little knowledge of how the economy works.

Racism is racism no matter what race it is from. If he has racial biases, he should not run a country no matter how his people were oppressed in the past. I am not responsible for what my ancestors did. If people want true equality, they have to let go of the past. As far as him not contradicting himself, that's wrong. He has constantly changed his words in regards to withdrawing the troops. He used to state that withdrawing them would be a disaster. Now that it's the popular thing to do, he thinks we should withdraw them.

[QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="allnamestaken"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]This country will not last another 4-8 years with a republican president. And when it comes to Democrats, Obama is the only one of the two id vote for.its_me_

Isn't it funny that the Republicans, who claim to be the most patriotic tend to do the country the most harm?

Are you kidding me? You think an entire party is responsible for a bad President? You should back up your words or you might be dismissed as a kid who ate too much propaganda. The truth is that leftist borderline socialism is truly anti American. It denies the people individuality and the right to succeed and fail. It gives all control to the government.

Trashface if you look at democratic policies this coming election you will find that none of them really have anything to do with socialism. The only one being universal health care, but personally, I'd rather trust the health of my family to a government that I can vote out every four years then a collection of corporations.

Socialized healthcare will be a disaster. It has been for other countries. You won't be able to select your own doctor. You'll have to go to whatever doctor the government wants. The budget will be smaller. the care quality will be horrible.

Trash this post shows how ignorant you are on the whole issue. Let's take Canada for example.

In Canada patients select their own family doctor.

In Canada regardless of what anyone tells you universal health care is NOT a disaster. Wait times are really only long for non-emergency procedures, trust me if you have a serious injury you will not be asked to wait in a waiting room.

Guess how many people Canada has? Yea, 33 million. The United States has 320 million. And in fact, NO country with socialized healthcare has even 1/3 the population of the United States. it is going to fail.

Your argument is because the US has more people universal healthcare can't work? How does that make sense? I ask this honestly, not trying to patronize what is your point?

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

how exactly was woodrow wilson a good president? he was a progressive leftist who loved socialism especially the socialism that mussolini brought to the table

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20271026

jointed

:lol: That has got to be one of the most moronic "articles" I've ever read. The only socialistic aspect of fascism and National Socialism is the strive towards a national unity.

fascism has many faces. He brings up the point that Fascism has more to do with typical socialism. But the only real difference between Nazism and typical socialism is the word National. Which can be interchangeable with the word Socialized. For example Nationalized Healthcare means the same as Socialized.

however, most fascists come from the far left. Mussolini, Hitler Stalin, Lenin

You do know that Fascism/Nazism and Socialism are two COMPLETELY different ideologies, right? Everyone who has studied basic sociology knows this. The two ideologies' fundamental values are in direct conflict with each other.

National Socialism = Socialism with nationalism. Same thing but with nationalism. Right wing entails capitalism and small government (at least in america). Hitler hated capitalism and obviously had big government

Fascism and socialism are the same exact thing

No, it's not that simple...are you American by any chance?

Seriously, do you even know what the two ideologies encompasses?

Fascism implies submissiveness to the state or society as a whole, something socialism is all about as well but says its about "common good" which hillary has blatantly admitted. Shes a progressivist which is a direct road to socialism, which as far as im concerned is fascism as you have no way to succeed in life and the government controls everything

Mussolini was a socialist, who was also a fascist.

Fascism implies that the nation state is the highest authority on every field and socialism implies that all men are created equal and that class differences should therefore be eradicated. I suggest you read and understand both ideologies fundamental principles before you make such inept arguments next time. Your superficial perspective would probably make this hard for you though...

actually in a socialist state you would have people being very subordinate to the state. Which is why socialism is flawed in and of its self. In socialist countries, people are "created equal" under the state. Look at venesuala (i know i spelled that wrong) they have television shows that go against Hugo, and he shuts them down. Thats pretty equal and free.

Socialism does not = totalitarianism :roll:

so venesuala is totalitarian now?

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

how exactly was woodrow wilson a good president? he was a progressive leftist who loved socialism especially the socialism that mussolini brought to the table

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20271026

H8sMikeMoore

:lol: That has got to be one of the most moronic "articles" I've ever read. The only socialistic aspect of fascism and National Socialism is the strive towards a national unity.

fascism has many faces. He brings up the point that Fascism has more to do with typical socialism. But the only real difference between Nazism and typical socialism is the word National. Which can be interchangeable with the word Socialized. For example Nationalized Healthcare means the same as Socialized.

however, most fascists come from the far left. Mussolini, Hitler Stalin, Lenin

You do know that Fascism/Nazism and Socialism are two COMPLETELY different ideologies, right? Everyone who has studied basic sociology knows this. The two ideologies' fundamental values are in direct conflict with each other.

National Socialism = Socialism with nationalism. Same thing but with nationalism. Right wing entails capitalism and small government (at least in america). Hitler hated capitalism and obviously had big government

Fascism and socialism are the same exact thing

No, it's not that simple...are you American by any chance?

Seriously, do you even know what the two ideologies encompasses?

Fascism implies submissiveness to the state or society as a whole, something socialism is all about as well but says its about "common good" which hillary has blatantly admitted. Shes a progressivist which is a direct road to socialism, which as far as im concerned is fascism as you have no way to succeed in life and the government controls everything

Mussolini was a socialist, who was also a fascist.

Fascism implies that the nation state is the highest authority on every field and socialism implies that all men are created equal and that class differences should therefore be eradicated. I suggest you read and understand both ideologies fundamental principles before you make such inept arguments next time. Your superficial perspective would probably make this hard for you though...

actually in a socialist state you would have people being very subordinate to the state. Which is why socialism is flawed in and of its self. In socialist countries, people are "created equal" under the state. Look at venesuala (i know i spelled that wrong) they have television shows that go against Hugo, and he shuts them down. Thats pretty equal and free.

Socialism does not = totalitarianism :roll:

so venesuala is totalitarian now?

The problem with socialism (this coming from a random joe) is that someone must regulate it, I haven't done much research on the issue, but without a higher force like a government to tell the people what everybody needs and how much everybody will get, it just doesn't work.

So in a way, a dictatorship is sort of inevitable.